Last night President Obama spoke about equal pay for women in the workforce.

I have known many, many, many (lucky) women, and I have never once heard of a woman being paid less than a man in any occupation, ever.

Whether they were government employees, businesswomen, doctors, writers, loan officers, whatever... Never once have I heard of a woman being paid less than a man (all things being equal of course)

It is not only the president that speaks about this. Romney went to great lengths during the election to explain what he was going to do to address this "problem" that exists in the American workforce.

Last night, the president even received a standing ovation when he commented on this.

So somebody, please explain what in the earth's holy [bleep], these people are talking about. I sincerely have no idea.


Travis

I think he wants women in government to be paid the same as as a high-dollar whore.

based on everything I've read, women are **in general** less willing to work long hours than men.

It's simply a function of how child/family care is set up in our society.

For example, we pay all vets the same rate (commission).

All four males work full time but only 1 of the three females does (the one without children).

The only way to "change" this is going to be by making it easier for males to provide more childcare and/or allow for more "on site" childcare at the woman's workplace

Just feel good rhetoric is all it is Travis. It sounds good to the uninformed masses, but has no substantive basis. If a politician's mouth is open chances are he is lying.

For the most part, IME, it's a thing of the past; the people that re still beating on it are simply making something out of little but women like to feel put upon & deal through emotion, so it (continues) to work many of them up.

Just all about attempting to pander to a segment of voters...........

I've been in Manufacturing all my life........women engineers were same job classification & paid the same as the boys, for example.

MM

I'm with you, don't have a clue. I think its just a bunch olf bull$hit to get a standing ovation and take attention off all the lies he has been spouting out. Hope he dies soon.

I think all else being equal is the key.

I have seen women get paid the same for equal jobs. The problem with women- my staff included- is they want to come to work late and leave early. Notwithstanding their 2 hour social lunch breaks. They do get paid the same but from an efficiency standpoint are subpar.

In my occupation that has a direct impact on my income. Give me a female worker who is postmenopausal and the kids are out of the house any day of the week.

To all of you who listened to the mulatto currently hunkered down in the white house the following. - Why didn't you make good use of your time? Say doing some reloading, cleaning out the garage, or hand dipping the outhouse at camp until it is spic and span?

I think that the obama boy ran out of lies about a year into the first reign. Perhaps, like other TV personalities he needs a ghost writer. I don't know, and I don't care. I will not listen to more lies or his misbegotten BS for a single second - life just ain't that long.


Terry

He's pandering to women, thats all. He's a self centered, narcissistic punk, who now in his second term is trying to secure his legacy. He's is so shallow but media will never call him on it.

When I went to franchise training, the franchisor told us NOT to hire women of child bearing age for key positions. Said that the chances of them taking maternity leave were too great and if they did take leave it could drive our new businesses out of business.

The guy only had about 40 years experience and had about 1,000 previous franchisees. I listened well.

He should be trying to help ALL Americans not just certain groups. If he really wants to help anyone, then he needs to help this country grow jobs for everyone, and I don't mean government jobs which should be downsized.

There was an article in the paper about a week+ ago detailing that many women who work in the AIC's own gov't receive slightly less pay for similar work done by men.. So, maybe the AIC should look at his own workforce. Maybe, if those same females can find some guts they'd all march into the Oval Office en-masse and demand equal pay..

How I'd love to hear THAT conversation..

Exactly.

Myself, I've done my best to ignore that piece of filth from the day he was first crowned emperor, and I will continue to do so. I don't listen to his speeches, I won't sit through his television appearances, and I do my best not to have to look a a picture of the punk.

I've been doing it for years now, and I can keep it up.

this......course in all reality ive alsonot seen any real difference in pay cause of gender but ive also never worked anywhere where real high salaries are the norm.....

In years past it was true that women didn't get paid the same for the same work. Those days are past, though.

Travis, at 38 I'm a little to young to have experienced the glass ceiling that is said to have been prevelant in the workforce. Like you I do not see evidence of it anywhere I am. Women are cops firefighters engineers CEO's DR's and if we keep [bleep] around, maybe soon president.. Politicial pandering and feel good rhetoric have already been mentioned. I mean no disrespect to the ladies, but that's all it is.

This. He spends all his time trying to whip up the emotional vote, the ones that got him elected, There's two kinds of voters, and the demos have figured out that the emotional thinkers are going to be more fervent in their support and more inclined to propogate. If you think about it, it appeals to the selfish side of human nature in all of us to be told we're under appreciated and help is on the way. I feel your pain, you can trust me, I am your saviour, if only you'd elect me I could help you.

Whether it's Obama or any other politician, it's best to question WHY they say what they do, more than the content of what they say. Integrity is a thing of the past with these people, it's all about election results, not governance by an instilled set of values.
IMHO.

pretty much, hell my wife has been very successful in what is a largely male dominated industry....even out here in Montana where independent women are pretty common there aint alot of them in newspaper owner/publisher positions unless its as a husband/wife team.....but then again i married my wife cause she is very much the tomboy happiest at elk camp instead of a girly-girl happiest shopping and drinking with "the girls"....as she puts it she doesnt have many women friends cause she doesnt have time for their petty bullchit

There was a speech last night??????

Hmmm

Mike

All I know is that the "President" is a sorry piece of monkey fecal matter.

I pay all my bitches well.

A large voting block. Same reason no one will tackle illegal immigration, another large voting block.

He's just driving another wedge into society to further alienate the "have nots" from those who are perceived to have "more", e.g., the white male.

Class warfare.

Travis;
Top of the morning to you sir, I trust this finds you and yours doing acceptably well thus far into the week.

It appears I'm going to be perhaps the lone dissenting opinion here in that I most definitely am aware of women being paid less for the same work performed as men.

Speaking broadly and I am cognizant of where that leaves me, it would be in male dominated industries where the female employees have risen into the ranks of middle management.

I am personally aware of one instance where the female employee exceeded her predecessor's efforts and hours spent on the job and received less financial remuneration for it.

There might be a couple more instances if I really bend my memory, but they'd all be in private industry that's predominantly staffed with males.

In positions where there are mandated scales for wages - healthcare, education, public service employees, etc. - then there appears to be less discrepancy.

Please note that in no way, shape or form am I commenting on your President's words or the veracity thereof.

Neither am I speculating on the situation south of the medicine line Travis because again in your world I know not of what I'd be speaking.

My response is only to say howdy to you and yours this morning and to say that yes, I have seen women paid less for the same position.

All the best to you and yours sir and do try to keep warm and dry down there.

Dwayne

Dwayne: Top of the morning to you too, sir! I've seen the statistics indicating just what you said, and I'm sure that as a father of two daughters, you are keenly aware of these things.

I've worked in a male-dominated industry all my adult life (engineering/construction) and I haven't personally seen it. In fact, I've seen the opposite in the companies I've worked for; there is such a shortage of qualified women that we have really pulled out all the stops to promote women to management positions. We are even incentivized to promote and mentor women in these positions, and our performance evaluated with this as a criterion.

I'm not saying that all companies are similar in that, just what I've seen. And from the photos you've posted in the past, I think your daughters will be just the kind of women that these companies are looking for.

BC30cal- I worked in middle management for a Fortune 500 company for several years and can tell you that all men don't get the same pay for the same position / work load either.

I was never given a raise, I had to demand them. People who were not productive and or lacked the assertivness to command higher pay simply didn't get it.

That is the main reason that many women in private industry middle management make less.

Very valid point.

smokepole;
Good day to you sir, thanks for dropping by and saying hello - it's been too long.

I should be clear in that I'm not suggesting the situation is universal in any industry up here.

The intended point was merely to articulate that I was aware of at least one instance that fit my cyber friend Travis' question or at least as I understood it.

Thanks for the kind words on the girls too, I hope and pray you are correct, but of course with their lives as with all things - time will be the ultimate judge.

All the best to you and yours sir.

Dwayne

I don't like to hire women in the first place because they're almost impossible to get rid of.

Gadfly;
Good morning to you sir, I hope this finds you well and out of the treacherous driving conditions.

Thanks for making what I would also consider a very valid point.

I absolutely believe that could be part of the equation indeed.

All the best to you in the remainder of the week.

Regards,
Dwayne

Every woman watching that was saying..."Gosh, I'm lucky. I get paid as much as (or more)than the men around me. It's such a shame that so many others don't get paid equally. Somebody should do something about that.".

That's a good point. Anybody in a "protected class" is going to earn less BECAUSE of that legal protection.

Who? What? Sorry hadn't heard about that... Was too busy watching Dr. Who w/ my daughter to pay attention...

Dwayne- All is well here in the Ouachitas, the white stuff is all to the south. Hope everything is well with you and your family.

I have never seen women get paid less, but I have seen them work less because they had something to do that they felt was more important than their job. Usually, their job was about number 6-10 on their to do list. I've seen that a bunch. What the democrats are blathering about has been taken care of years ago but they have to continually rail against discrimination that is not there or they would be out of work.....just like Jesse Jackson and blacks, etc.

I used to work in a company � one of only two guys there, besides the boss � where the several gals had to have a TV in the "common room" so that they could watch their string of afternoon soap operas while they were allegedly proof-reading galleys, etc.

After they'd wiped their eyes and quit cussing the male actors at the end of the last soap, they went back to their desks and offices, presumably to do something or other reasonably related to what they'd been hired for.

After they got done "reading proofs," I had to reread the galleys and of course found bushels of mistakes.

Not saying there's not some exceptions but as far as I know equal pay for equal work has been around for a long time. I had an insurance business with around 40 employees for 35 years. The salary for each position was based on qualifications from the first day. The advice of my atty who said why risk a potential lawsuit over this when I started the business was a small factor but the main reason was to get and keep the most qualified workers. Employers want the best people they can get. Without them you won't be in business too long.

How about the other side of this with the increasingly numerous public entity or public entity related jobs where govt. requires employers to hire women for jobs like firefighter, police oficer, construction, etc. Those jobs are equal pay and women and other "minorities" are given accommodation and preference for them.

He means the average income for all American women equalling the average income for all American men.

I just skimmed the thread but someone alluded to the war on white men.

Look no further for an explanation.

Marxism 101.

That hasn't been my experience, and I've fired more than one for performance problems. No more difficult than a man, if your HR staff is any good and you document poor performance. Of course, YMMV.

Yeah. I believe there was�

Don�t think we missed much.

In the jobs that I have had, if there were women employed, they received exactly the same pay as the men.

Ok. So the problem doesn't exist. It's simply a matter of looking at a graph and saying "Look, women made less this year." They're only stating conclusions, not articulating the facts that bring about that conclusion.

That about it?


Travis

Right. It's ALL about disparate impact.

Listening is a rare skill that easily puts me 100 steps ahead of the majority. Doesn't matter who is giving the message.


Travis

Dwayne! Top of the morning buddy.

I think black guy was talking about south of the border, but thanks regardless.

See you in church friendo.


Travis

Life ain't fair people,
get over it

I figured. Was just curious if anybody had ever witnessed it more than anything else.


Travis

It has treated me well.

So far...



Travis

Divide and conquer, that's what he's all about.....

Bb

Highly unnecessary.

Easy to say when your not some poor underpaid chick

This is EXACTLY what gets them elected time after time after TIME.You want equal pay?????????????? Than accept equal hours and equal job responsibilities..........

Women elect our politicians. Period.

There is a disparity in wages between men and women but I've never seen the left provide an example of unequal pay for the same job.

And when I say never ... I mean NEVER.

It's BS.

Don't read it.



Travis

I agree. I have never seen this. And I don't know anybody that has.


Travis

BINGO

Nothing more than dem False talking points-
More lies, but the uninformed sheeple will believe it. Do as I say, not as I do.
Oblahblah needs to pay his own female staff equally before he points the finger.

"White House Still Pays Women Less Than Men As Obama Demands Equal Pay For Equal Work"

http://www.breitbart.com/InstaBlog/...s-Obama-Demands-Equal-Pay-For-Equal-Work

Just because you haven't seen it, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Admittedly, it's less and less of a problem every year, but it still exists. My last boss was a woman who was a managing director for a Fortune 500. You can guess she made pretty good coin; I'd swap checks with her any day of the week. But the company had MANY managing directors, and despite the fact she's been there 21 years and probably in the top 1% of those managing directors, she probably made 10% less than most of the others. And by most, I mean at least 70% of all managing directors made 10% more than her. They hide it by classifying her position/department as generally being lower pay, but I don't know many who buy that.

For my job title, there was me and 5 women who held that title before I left. Now honestly, I was much more qualified and had considerably more responsibility than any of the ladies in my job classification. But the job is supposed to be paid by classification. I had been with the company for 8 years, and I had the least time with the company of all in my classification. Yet I made nearly 20% more than anyone else. Now that would make complete sense if pay was based purely on merit. But our company breaks things down by job classification (so I'm told). So there may be a problem there.

When you do the research across the entire nation, you find that women typically make less than men when they do the same job; that's just how it works out.

Honestly, until I worked for my last company, I was in the same bucket as you; I had never personally observed such a dynamic before in my professional career. My managing director challenged me to do a little research (when I told her she had a chip on her shoulder...she does by the way), and it turns out that she was right. Still, she has a pretty big chip on her shoulder.

But honestly, with all that's going on in America; THAT's what people give a standing ovation for? Sorry, but we have MUCH bigger fish to fry where our nations problems are concerned.

Ummm... ok.



Travis

I've seen it in private industry multiple times. Both the glass ceiling for women and unequal pay for women. Always rolls up to management hiring and promoting that way. Seen it in a few gov't sites as well, for the same reason.

But it is FAR less common and pronounced than it used to be, and it's becoming much less so every year.

But how could the Prez pass up a chance to create another rift in our society?

See my first post. My job had a compensation categorization as well, but I got payed more because I (A.) was a producer, and (B.) was assertive enough to ask for enhanced compensation for my enhanced performance.

Maybe your lady boss was a top performer (maybe not), but you won't get more if you don't ask for more, and..... You have to be prepared to walk if you aren't adequately compensated.

Agreed. In the instance of my job classification, that's how I see it; exactly as you explained it.

For my boss, there were a lot of MD's and not many of them were what I'd call assertive. I think her's is a case of a little discrimination...only a little.

But I think you're onto something there. I think men tend to be more assertive in asking for good pay and that is something that has to be accounted for.

I was in a position where I could all but demand it, and my co-workers just weren't effective enough in their jobs to do the same. I got to a position where they knew if they lost me, it would cost them a lot of money to lose that knowledge base. My boss was smart, after I got my raise, and it was quite size-able, he had me train others. When I changed to another job within the company, 3 women did my job (initially it was actually 4). So in my case, I can understand why I was paid more, but the company CLAIMED they pay based on job classification.

Every move this POS makes is designed to garner blocks of votes:

Equal pay for women.

Higher minimum wage for the flunkies and uneducated.

More gun control for the fearful.

More giveaway "programs" for the lazy and inept.

A chicken in every pot.

Which is illegal. If it was so easy for you to find out everyone's salary, why aren't the women doing so and suing?

There's no gender pay discrimination in the public sector. My wife worked in the private sector and made a ton of money, as did a bunch of other women at the same company. But that's because they produced objective, not subjective, results. So it would seem that the primary place gender pay discrimination could occur is in the private sector in positions where pay is based on subjective results or expectations, not objective results. I'll assume that's the case with Kevin's boss. But as Kevin's states, "They hide it by classifying her position/department as generally being lower pay..." So the position was classified as lower - does anyone really think that in today's litigious and politically correct climate that a company would classify a position lower just to pay a female occupant of the position less - something that they know is wrong?

The 70% or 77% stats are one of the biggest myths out there. There may be some very small of amount of actual gender pay discrimination, but the overwhelmingly vast majority of the 70/77% discrepancy is due to choice.

There are challenges that women face in the workplace but gender pay disparity is pretty low on the list.

It's hard to believe that some still support this fraud.

I'm not sure what timeframe you are speaking of when you say you witnessed it. But if you did, how do you know there was an imaginary glass ceiling, as opposed to them not being qualified? Sometimes managerial picks can come down to personality, or their inherent ability to lead. What lead you to believe it was solely based on sex?


Travis

These are my sentiments as well.



Travis

Nailed it.

But what draws you to that conclusion? That's a key question. Unless you are the making selections for positions, how do you know the reasoning behind the selections?

Maybe she farted in the interview, maybe she is afraid to discipline employs. Maybe she never makes coffee after taking the last cup out of the pot.

How do you know it is based on sex?


Travis

If some women get paid less because they work less hours for whatever reason, that is their choice. If they are paid by the hour, and they want more money -- work the longer hours, and you get paid more.

I was a LEO for 30+ years. Our female officers got paid the same as we men. The problem for us was that if they dispatched a man to a call, he was sent alone most of the time. If they dispatched a female, they would send two guys as backup. Silly, and not very cost effective -- three people to a one people call??

As usual, Mr. Obama has interpreted the statistics to suit his needs. Lies, darned lies, and statistics -- in ascending order of evil.

Yes. I understand that and it's easy to dismiss it, but I still have to ask.

And (once again) how can the media never mention it? Conservative or otherwise, I didn't hear anybody on the morning news mention "WTF is this guy talking about, and why was everybody cheering?"

It's like living in the Twilight Zone.


Travis

Travis, the few times I was sure of it is because I was in good enough with senior management (VP's, CIO's, CTO's, legal) to actually hear it. Comments from them stating that they flat out could not hire a woman for a position because the prez/cio/board of directors wouldn't approve it. Or supervisors that wouldn't hire a woman because they'd just get pregnant and disappear in the middle of a project and never come back to work after they used their maternity leave. Etc. Etc.

Timeframe is last 20 years.

It wasn't but 30'ish years ago that I was working at a country club which had all the Jewish businessmen (and a few blacks) in town as members because the bigger country club in town wouldn't except any blacks or Jews. Those people running the bigger country club were running businesses for decades after that, and if you think their prejudices stopped with minorites you'd be very naive.

Yes, but again, it is not just Obama speaking to the issue. Romney babbled on and on about it during the election, as if it's still the early 1900's.


Travis

Thanks. That's a real world observation IMO.


Travis

I call foul on this thread. I have an insincere question, and I demand that it be given consideration equal to your sincere question.

It's about votes.

Fact is,..American women are among the most privileged group of people to have ever lived,...but they've been convinced that they're oppressed.

Being as how women are easy to fool,...they've decided that they want "equality",...and I have a feeling that they're going to get it in spades the next time conscription comes around.

But to answer your question,...women don't receive equal pay for equal work.

From what I've seen, they receive equal pay for a hell of a lot less than equal work.

Another comment on the matter,...

This world is overflowing with women who are looking for American husbands.

If you're a halfway responsible kind of American male, women from around the globe will beat a path to your door.

On the other hand,...there's absolutely no global market whatsoever for American wives.

The reason is simple, there was a line out of an old movie "There ain't no money in it".

Money can be interpreted in this case to be "mileage" to make it worth the argument. Anyone caught making any statement to the contrary will get eviscerated and regardless of the truthfulness, there just isn't a benefit for anyone to take that flag and move forward into that battle.

Women will get maternity leave and suffer the consequences of a lesser yearly salary for doing the same job a man would do, but no one would enter that component and many others like it into the discussion.

My mother taught at MSU for nearly 40 years and was paid as a professor, not a woman. This has long been the law and anything other than that is a mis-represented fact to try and advance the theory that women aren't paid equally.

Furthermore, what is wrong with staying home and being a mother to your children. I can tell you this much, Condoleezza Rice is known all over the world for her work as a statesman, but she isn't a pancake's shadow compared to the work that my wife did at home raising our 5 children. That monument is still growing and I my admiration for my wife and her dedication is endless. 40 years of marriage this June and I can tell you she may be one of the many housewives that haven't earned what they should have...

This should be a bumper sticker. Or a billboard, or anything that makes people think "Hmmm...that's a good point."


Travis

With all of that being said... it's probably been 15 years since I saw any obvious signs of it. Which is why I don't consider it a serious issue any more.

This^^^

I don't believe for a second that this SOB ever does anything altruistic.

It's all carefully planned to further his own agenda and the agendas of the powers behind the throne.

I think being driven in the GTO is more than fair in regards to compensation.


Travis

These will likely be my only sincere thoughts for the year.


Travis

I Always tip women......

SURPRISE!



Dave

Fred knows,..

http://www.fredoneverything.net/MarryAbroad.shtml

An excerpt: (but click on the link and read it all)

(1) North American women (say these men) have been so corrupted by angry feminism that they have the appeal of a menopausing crocodile with the hives. Yes, there are gradations, and many exceptions, but you don�t find out whether she is an exception until, if she isn�t, it is too late. And yes, the men having these views often have had bad experiences, and remain angry. Nonetheless they tend to have similar opinions: The average American woman these days is charming as a hung-over ferret but less useful (ferrets kill mice). We all know the signs. There are the frequent complaints about sexism, discrimination, machismo, the throwaway snotty remarks about the male ego, immaturity, and fear of commitment (they have the last one right, God knows). You get the feeling that too many gringas are coiled like rattlesnakes, looking for slights about which to be enraged. Together these constitute what I think of as �the chip.�

You have to be crazy to tie yourself to such a creature�stark bug-[bleep].

(2) The lack of femininity. The word is hard to define, but the quality is impossible to mistake. American women seem to want to be either androgynous horrors or smaller men with the appeal of a truss ad. On the street they dress in those awful Brooks Sisters business suits with the ugly blazers and little shoulder pads. You see them in restaurants, drinking too much and yelling, �He�s a [bleep] piece of [bleep],� apparently in the belief that talking like a jock in a rural locker room makes them one of the guys. Some of us don�t want to date one of the guys. We want to date a woman.

They don�t want to be feminine, don�t know what the word means and, if you bring the subject up, they say�spare me��You just want a submissive woman.� No, actually, I don�t. Submissive women are boring. I just don�t want a squalling, hair-trigger bitch.

Travis

that's ok Travis, neither king Hussein or anyone in Washington knows what they are talking about either.

I have a sincere question as well Dahveed...

...when will you come home?

I think that the statistic is actually accurate, in that all that is being cited is:

total $ earned by all women/total number of women = woman's average wage

versus

total $ earned by all men/total number of men = man's average wage


It explains almost nothing, but it is an accurate stat.

Nail on the head !!!

Again, Bristoe strikes the match that enlightens the world. Well done sir.

It's pandering to a voting block.

Think about it - if women really did the same work for less pay and it's just a bunch of men running evil corporations that exist for the all mighty dollar - then EVERY position in the company below the C-suites would be full of women.

They work for less pay right? You've just reduced your production costs. Right?

It's a BS saying that's not backed in reality when the actual paychecks are studied with equality.

In my many, many years in the petrochemical industry, from working in the plants to research positions, I have seen the same claims. It IS valid when specifics are not considered, as in weighing what a secretary is paid versus a welder. I knew a secretary who threatened to sue the company if they didn't let her transfer to an operator's position, so she could make more money - then complained about getting dirty and having to work shift work to get that money. I've worked the same job classification with women who worked all the overtime they could get and did a good job, and also with some who maxed out sick time and personal leave, left early after coming in kate, and spent more time on the phone than at work - but were paid the same as a man in the same classification who took the job seriously.

Any employer who looks at hiring a woman who is very likely to take paid maternity leave multiple times in her "career" is looking at losing money over hiring a man, in most cases. This is just a fact of life. I had a female supervisor in my last job before retirement who liked to claim she wasn't compensated like men in the same job. She had taken time off to have children, asked for many concessions for the same reason, and in all honesty would not have been promoted to her position had she not been a female in a company under political pressure to hire and promote more females. HER boss was a female manager holding a bachelor's degree in a company where men in the same jobs typically needed a PHD.

On ignore you go.

That is why we don't have an affordable government of the people, by the people, for the people.

bc
i have been following your posts for a long time. Are most canuks as nice as you are?

Not an accurate stat unless you factor in number of hours worked.
Women work fewer hours.

Only accurate comparison is hourly wage for doing the same work.