Perp, stabbing K9 Unit, Shot and Killed by PoPo


Police said K-9 Sgt. Ryan Stark was the officer involved in a Sunday night pursuit that ended in a fatal shooting.

Kye, a 3-year-old German Shepherd who was involved in the pursuit, suffered multiple stab wounds Sunday night and underwent emergency surgery. He died about 3:30 p.m. Monday, police said.

The name of the man who stabbed Kye and led authorities on the pursuit, which ended in an officer-involved shooting, has not been released. Police said K-9 Sgt. Ryan Stark fatally shot the man.

What happened

About 8:45 p.m., police were called to a business burglary at 7233 S Air Depot Blvd. Officers saw a man drive away and pursued. Oklahoma Highway Patrol troopers led the pursuit when the driver was speeding southbound on Interstate 35 in Norman, Oklahoma City police Capt. Dexter Nelson said.

Troopers used tactics to end the pursuit near the Goldsby exit on I-35, where the vehicle hit a ditch west of the highway, Nelson said.

Oklahoma City K9 officers and gang unit officers stayed back with troopers until the driver got out of the vehicle and started running south near the service road. A K9 officer, who later was identified as Stark, let the police dog chase the driver. The K9, later identified as Kye, apprehended the driver as he ran behind a business, police said.

Stark made his way to the man�s location to pull the dog off of the man, at which point he saw the driver had a knife and was stabbing the police dog, police said. Stark was in close proximity to the driver at the time, police said. Stark fatally shot the man, and the police dog was taken to a veterinarian for emergency surgery.

From a legal standpoint, a K9 is considered a tool that an officer uses, Nelson said. However, police officers view them as partners, he said.

A police officer could not shoot a person solely for attacking a K9 dog, but officers are trained that they can use lethal force when they are within 21 to 25 feet of a person with a knife if the situation warrants, Nelson said.

Sunday�s shooting was the seventh officer-involved shooting this year, police said. Four of those shootings were fatal, police said.


Oklahoma City police K-9 Kye is shown in February
during a demonstration on training involved for police
dogs. Kye died Monday following a stabbing attack Sunday.
ARCHIVE PHOTO, CHRIS LANDSBERGER

Now there's a GOOD shoot, but very sorry the dog was killed.

Good

trash cleaned up. to bad the dog died.

I don't think the police want to start playing the "kill my dog and I kill you" game.

Sad about the dog.

Yep, it's fine for officers to shoot family pets without consequence, but K9 units are hands off. Good job! I hope this takes some of the heat off Officer Holtzclaw so they can get him clear of the sexual assault charges.

The knife wielder (defending himself against a vicious attack) is nowhere near the police? No problem. Police just move in to within the "legal" limit and shoot him.

LE is really scraping the bottom of the barrel.

Were you there? No! Are you a police officer? If not, you have no business saying anything negative about their actions no matter what they do. STFU!!

Yep, good idea for sure, pal.

I'm not a cop anymore, but you can bet your sweet ass I'd shoot the sumbish that was stabbing my dog.

[img:left][/img]

Stab my dog & find out what happens.

Id end up dead. No way id sit and let any dog nip and bite my ass. Good bye cruel world, but im taking that fookin dog with me!

I follow the philosophy of not doing anything to get a police dog sicced on me...

So long at the law applies the exact same standard to me if I should catch someone delivering serious bodily injury to my dog.

Oh so do I. But I got bit when I was a kid. Dont get me wrong, im ok around dogs. But they get nasty I flip the fook out! Killed my buddies rottweiler when we were partying one night in my 20's. SOB started getting nippy and I told him to get it the fook away from me but he didnt. Friend or no friend, your fookin dog gets at me im gonna kill it.

I'd have shot him until I was empty. I know very few people I like as well as dogs.

Perp should have been shot for running.

Yep, this 8 year old knew the deal:

http://www.vindy.com/news/2011/nov/27/police-defend-k--in-attack-on--year-old/


If he had so much as laid a finger on that dog there isn't an officer in the country who wouldn't have shot his punk ass.

^^^This^^^

Sounds like the Perp got exactly what he deserved!

Bottom line right there...& even then, they're generally trained to go for the extremities. If I were bitten by a police dog for no good reason, I'm pretty sure I could suffer through the pain till I got the check in the mail.

I'd have shot the phugger too, probably several times more than once.

MM

If you set your dog to attack someone, he would be well within his rights to protect himself using lethal force on the dog and you!

What is wrong with the thinking process of so many in LE? Protect yourself from our vicious attack dog and you die? WTF?

Poor Rye, I hate any dog being hurt; but what did his handler do take a doughnut break and leave him on his own with the dog killer until it was too late.

Cop got there and shot too late to save the pup, but I can muster no sympathy for the dog killer.

UPDATE: Man accused of stabbing police dog identified Tuesday

FROM STAFF REPORTS
PUBLISHED: AUGUST 26, 2014

Oklahoma City police identified Tuesday the man shot and killed by an officer on Sunday night.

Mark Salazar, 22, was shot and killed by Sgt. Ryan Stark on Sunday night. Stark has been placed on administrative leave.


Kye, a 3-year-old German shepherd who was involved in the pursuit, suffered multiple stab wounds Sunday night and had emergency surgery. He experienced complications after surgery and died about 3:30 p.m. Monday, police said.

The service for Kye will be held at 11 a.m. on Thursday at First Southern Baptist Church, 6400 S Sooner Road. The services will be conducted with full police honors and it will be open to the public.

{still no word about murder/manslaughter charges being filed against the popo. IMO, regardless of how much of a scumbag was the perp, he did not commit a capital crime.}

Your faith in scumbags is greater than mine...

Where are all the folks who cry about their dogs being killed because "he wasn't just a pet, he was like one of our own children?"

Second, leaving the dog completely out of the picture, if a cop is chasing a perp and comes around the corner of a building to find the perp right there holding a knife, the cop damn well ought to shoot.

Lastly, and only as an observation, either the photo above is not one of Officer Stark and Rye, or the description of Rye as a 3-year-old German Shepherd is typical media screwuppery.

Undoubtedly makes ASPC and PETA membership happy.

Concur. Wonder where the haters are?

In case you didn't know, fleeing the popo & trying to evade arrest is a felony in most states & most know it (especially scumbags) running from a K9 is stupid enough, but stabbing it is Darwin award material...

Yep.

Agreed, and I have NO problems with the POS getting smoked. Stab/shoot my dog, and see what happens (whether you've got a badge on or not).

Sieg heil!

Forgive him heir fuhrur!

One certainly wonders WTF it is that conservatives are conserving these days. Sure ain't individual liberty.

No wonder we have an infant police state in the making here.

You've reinforced the very point Sherp was making.

Your a coward and some sort of moron. You obviously are not worth the life of even a piss poor dog. I hope you die of @$$hole cancer. You kill my dog and you will certainly end up bleeding badly and no one will call an ambulance. If dogs don't like you there is something very wrong with you, trust issues, smell of fear, leftist scum.

Having a funeral for a dog is bizarre.

Awesome.

the dog was a Baptist

wheres the outrage from Brian Griffin?

Just another example of American's penchant for elevating the life of a dog above the life of a human.

I think the shoot was good, but not because the perp was stabbing the dog. It was good because he was fleeing and subsequently found wielding a deadly weapon near a police officer.

A coward doesnt shove his fist in the mouth of a dog biting him and bust his fookin jaw and leg. Im not gonna argue with you. Im just telling you, a fookin dog gets at me its dead, no matter whos dog it is, and if the owner wants to play, not a fookin problem.

Right. If thats what happened. But id bet the officer shot him over the dog. Sarah Speed, director of the Humane Society, was behind getting fines raised to $25,000 and up to 10 yrs in prison for injuring or killing a police animal in PA. Their not fookin officers, theyre animals. A tool at most. Period.

Some folks here need to see a mental health professional.

You however are a coward.

Sherp?? Did you take on another screen name??

You sound like a bit of a rabid dog, yourself.

Really? I never saw lookin out for #1 as being an issue.

Was that an issue?

Snake

Never been a cop

The dog murderer was running from the police. You are an idiot if you think he didn't know that the police told him to stop. The only reason he was attacked by the police dog is because he refused to halt as commanded.

Agreed. I can't think of a reason it would ever be a good idea.

George

I guess I am one of the few that doesn't think a dog is a human. A dog is a dog.

Another angle here; not saying its what happened, or not, but its another option.

Case law via the Supreme Court allows for the use of deadly force to stop a violent, fleeing felon. The fact that he stabbed a service animal while fleeing from police could be described as evidence that there was a high likelihood of the felon posing a risk to the public.

I can guarantee that your "friend" is a coward. Try that with my dog, and I'd either shoot you or gut you.

GREAT SHOOT!

Point being?

I never said it didn't happen. Hell, I've seen 'em local.

Heikko, my first K9, has been gone almost two years. Folks in my AO still ask how he's doing. Must have been one hell of a ceremony......or not.

George

First question would be "who pays for these dog funerals?"
Hope it's not Tax dollars, but we all already know that answer.

Interesting. This cop gets an attaboy from members for shooting some dickhead that killed his dog, while others get accused of negligence in the death of some kids that a group of gaboons killed. I feel like I live on another planet sometimes.

Have you learned to AVOID contact with Dogs ,

...or is that someone else's responsibility ?

GTC

+1

What is that point? That the police are looking out for the best interest of the citizens and ought to be above questioning?

Yep police state.

And just to be clear here I am not suggesting that the police officer not receive a fair hearing. Just that the information provided does not suggest shooting was justified. Just because we don't like someone doesn't mean the state should feel free to kill em! A dog, regardless of my love for them (and I do) is NOT equal to a man.

This^^^^^

+10

^ that right there is as logical a defense as can be offered here and may well be the one that gets him off.

The way the article is written suggests that the wounds assault of the dog in and of itself is the issue. That would be utterly ludicrous and allowing such conduct by police at all, but especially given their willingness to kill the canines of others, does not bode well for the future.

This sentimentalism for the dog is straight up retarded.

I would have no problem offing Michael Vick.

I am not saying this is what the officer did, nor am I defending him in any way. I wasn't there, I dont know him, nor do I know any intimate details. I was simply offering this as a possibility as to what happened.

I do know the service for the dog is not being funded by the taxpayer. I wont go so far as to call the sentimentalism "retarded," but I do find it hard to grasp to the extent that K9 guys do. There is absolutely a special bond there, and it takes a special kind of cop to be a K8 handler. I am not one, and I love dogs.

If theyre tied, sure I keep my distance. If im out in the field, walking down the road, or at someones house, and their dog runs up to you, wtf do you do? I know what I do, I sure as hell dont run, thats what got me bit years ago. I plan on gettin bit, and then I kill the ffukin thing. Dont want a dead dog, dont wanna deal with me after I kill it, keep the fffukin thing chained up. Simple as that.

If a cop turns one one me, ill obey the orders, but once that dog gets me, if the cop cant control it, im a goner.

Uh huh

Novel,albeit a bit PECULIAR approach to living in a nation where Dogs are kept in many households.

I'm sure it's all just going to work out swimmingly for you.

I'm sure you'll be in demand as an honored guest on many farms and ranches.

GTC

I suspect that unless they pencil whip this incident, that officer is going to get indicted. You can't shoot someone who is hurting a dog no matter what the dog is. Not saying that we shouldn't be able to but the laws just don't allow for that. He is going to have some 'splainin to do.

Control your animals. Cop was away from his attacking dog. Dogs don't have the reasoning of a human. I'm not sticking up for this guy but I really believe in "innocent until prove guilty". Why is it fair for an innocent person to be tore up by a trained attack dog?
Any dog & I mean any, that attacks me will be met with all of my defense tactics available.
Next thing the popo will be training pits to chase down whoever they think might have at some time caused trouble. Jaywalk-get tore up. Speed-get tore up. Get accused of some BS misdemeanor by hearsay-get tore up. Fawk that.
I have dogs & they know better than to even give a cross look at anyone.
Cops using attack dogs is simply a copout. Tracking dogs & such is great. Attacking innocent people is pure BS.

Apparently a lot of you guys have lived most if not all of your lives in rural areas...6-7 years ago I pulled up to my employers warehouse late in the evening in the big rig & noticed one of the loading dock doors was open a little bit. I called the boss & he said call the cops. K9 unit shows up & we walked up & pushed the door open. The light switches were on the other side of the warehouse & all the lights were off...The officer identified himself as a K9 officer quite a few times (I forget how many) then yelled "I'm releasing him"...I walked with the officer to the switches & turned on the lights...nobody was found & there were no signs anybody had entered the building...obviously one of the lumpers(for whatever reason ) had left that door unlocked...I'm here to tell you that I felt a lot better with that dog in there than I would have without him. That warehouse was fuggin dark & the flashlight just couldn't cover every place somebody could have been hiding...schitt, somebody could have been in one of the top racks & dropped a case of canned peaches or pears down on us.

If that dog had grabbed some azzhole after all that warning & then proceeded to stab that dog, I'd prolly been yellin "shoot em...shoot em".

You some good points, there.

Wait, did you just say that only police or people who were there should have an opinion on the cop shooting a guy who was out of range and stabbing his dog?

If so, you're an idiot.

I think it's interesting you find some commonality between the two incidents.

Never have been LEO, but thanks for your service.

I"d have shot any SOB before they stabbed my dog if I knew it was headed that way.

Some good idiotic points...Jaywalk-get tore up? Speed-get tore up? Get accused of some BS misdemeanor by hearsay-get tore up?
Attacking innocent people???
None of that happened...the officer was responding to a burglary call. Try reading it again before posting any more idiotic schitt...school teachers...geeze. If need be, maybe read a little slower & try to actually COMPREHEND what happened...

Cut & paste for the window lickers...

What happened

About 8:45 p.m., police were called to a business burglary at 7233 S Air Depot Blvd. Officers saw a man drive away and pursued. Oklahoma Highway Patrol troopers led the pursuit when the driver was speeding southbound on Interstate 35 in Norman, Oklahoma City police Capt. Dexter Nelson said.

Troopers used tactics to end the pursuit near the Goldsby exit on I-35, where the vehicle hit a ditch west of the highway, Nelson said.

Oklahoma City K9 officers and gang unit officers stayed back with troopers until the driver got out of the vehicle and started running south near the service road. A K9 officer, who later was identified as Stark, let the police dog chase the driver. The K9, later identified as Kye, apprehended the driver as he ran behind a business, police said.

Stark made his way to the man�s location to pull the dog off of the man, at which point he saw the driver had a knife and was stabbing the police dog, police said. Stark was in close proximity to the driver at the time, police said. Stark fatally shot the man, and the police dog was taken to a veterinarian for emergency surgery.

What commonality??? Looks to me like he's pointing out the disparity...

Basically true. If a civilian or civilian dog is killed by police then it is no big deal and the officer is cleared after an investigation. If a civilian does something to a K9 officer or their human partner then there are legal ramifications.

Nope, not at all. Police successfully use that argument all the time. And really, the word of any civilians at the scene does not count either if it casts a negative light on officers/contradicts officers claims.

You should contact Dick Kramer and tell him that story. He could do a sketch titled "The Night a Real Man and His Dog Comforted me."

+1 I would have done the same thing

+10000

There's a certain moral ambiguity about the situation that makes a black and white judgment a little more complicated to make. If a dog is commanded to just chomp away on a suspect (presumed innocent before the law prior to trial or confession - and I don't mean a defensive situation, which is of course justifiable), at what point, and to what extent, is said presumed-innocent suspect permitted to defend himself by application of necessary force?

I've owned dogs most of my life, and I'd have shot my dog before it bit somebody if I knew it was headed that way.

most rural places allow you to shoot a dog killing your chickens fer crissakes..

I have a question about this situation. If the dog had been killed before the officer arrived and the officer had not killed the skumbag, what charges would have been brought against the skumbag for killing the dog? Would the charges be the same as for killing a human officer? Would the charges be the same if the skumbag had killed a stray off the street or a neighbor's pet poodle?

Same thing as killing a human officer in most states which is a much more serious offense than killing a civilian. There are exceptions made on the charges/punishment if the K9 is killed by a human officer(such as locking the dog in a hot car and leaving it for hours or not feeding it while it is chained in the backyard) as we should all reasonably expect though.

Big difference between your dog & the circumstances surrounding the shooting...read slow so you can comprehend...




What happened

About 8:45 p.m., police were called to a business burglary at 7233 S Air Depot Blvd. Officers saw a man drive away and pursued. Oklahoma Highway Patrol troopers led the pursuit when the driver was speeding southbound on Interstate 35 in Norman, Oklahoma City police Capt. Dexter Nelson said.

Troopers used tactics to end the pursuit near the Goldsby exit on I-35, where the vehicle hit a ditch west of the highway, Nelson said.

Oklahoma City K9 officers and gang unit officers stayed back with troopers until the driver got out of the vehicle and started running south near the service road. A K9 officer, who later was identified as Stark, let the police dog chase the driver. The K9, later identified as Kye, apprehended the driver as he ran behind a business, police said.

Stark made his way to the man�s location to pull the dog off of the man, at which point he saw the driver had a knife and was stabbing the police dog, police said. Stark was in close proximity to the driver at the time, police said. Stark fatally shot the man, and the police dog was taken to a veterinarian for emergency surgery.

In PA, I think its up to $25000 fine and up to 10 yrs in prison for killing or wounding a police animal, horse dog whatever.

Police K9 = police officer = untouchable

Civilian dog = civilian = common and of no value beyond a tax source

Look at the police dogs that get loose and attack kids. They are not destroyed.

Even if a kid gets in to a fenced yard and gets bit by a civilian dog the dog usually gets topped.

So the skumbag would be charged with murder and possibly be executed for killing a dog?

Why do you guys respond to this fool?

They give these dogs funerals. wtf does that tell ya? A bunch of mall cop graduates. I dont GAF what they call it, its still a animal. And raising them to equal humans is ffffuckin pathetic.

Fool? I am just trying to get a handle on what the legalities are. I have made no statement about whether I think the LEO was right or wrong. Are you so blinded by emotion one way or the other that you can not recognize an honest question about what the laws are regarding the topic?

Uhh...read it again.

Read what again? My questions?

He was referring to sherp

I was very specific... "Why do you guys respond to this fool?. You're response was to "Sherp".

Then what are the answers to my questions?

Duhhhh...no.

Do you not know or do you just not want to answer? The questions in no way are meant to put any LEO in a bad light. I just want to know what the legal status of a police dog is.

Your question was "So the skumbag would be charged with murder and possibly be executed for killing a dog?".

My answer was " Duhhhh...no.". Sorry for the "duh". That was insensitive of me.

In MI killing a police dog is a 5 yr felony

He is considered the officer's partner. This is how much the k-9 dogs are valued. If people are going to go through a grieving process, the funeral or memorial service is a good way for them to have closure.

so you don't believe in Presumption of Innocence either. either...got it.

Looks like about 5 years more than an officer will getting for killing a 7 year old human in Michigan, as it should be.

A little too much value for a partner that cant arrest, write a ticket, or generally make their own decisions, besides schitting/pissing outdoors and generally eating junk that would make a human puke his guts out.

I just wanted to emphasize the importance of the actual funeral or memorial service in assisting people through the stages of grief. As a side note, I know there are people who "schit and piss outdoors" and eat junk food when they are already obese. ...even have eating contests which can turn your stomach.

The police officer is not worried about the k-9 dog arresting or writing tickets. Often times, the dog is a better deterrent than a gun.

I'll copy it again so you might comprehend. Might......

"About 8:45 p.m., police were called to a business burglary at 7233 S Air Depot Blvd. Officers saw a man drive away and pursued."

So this person deserves to be tore up by a trained attack dog?
A person leaving the area of a SUSPECTED burglary deserves to get attacked by a TRAINED ATTACK DOG while his owner wasn't in the area to control the situation?

If I'm walking/running/driving down the street & some fleabag makes the bad decision to attack me, you fawkin aye right I'm gonna kill that somebish. I don't care if there was a supposed crime in the area or not.

This [bleep] doesn't have the balls to handle the situation with one supposed suspect (that's still innocent) while probably carrying a gun, taser, baton, vest, hands-on training and who knows what else?

Anyone else see "Police State" written on the wall? Jebus crips guys.....

And once again,...

Just say "no" to drama.

Totally beside the point. Is a dogs life equal to, or in the case of a law enforcement animal, above the life of a human? Our police forces are full of PETA members? Theyre full of something, thats for sure.

If you're making hostile and life threatening moves on MY dog, in a manner with which I happen to take exception to, or dispute,...

YOUR life is worth less than amoeba and paramecium.

You need to get a handle on your dog fear, and look at this from a practical, and (pardon me all to hell for saying so) NORMAL angle.

WTF would anybody pay attention to YOUR propositions and extrapolations, ...given what you've already posted regarding dogs ?

GTC

Being a PETA member is besides the point. I didn't read anywhere that this officer or any other officer was a member of PETA.
To have a memorial or funeral service for a k-9 dog is not saying it is more important than, or equal to a human. Although, I'm sure there are folks who would have more respect for their dog than some people. To grieve for an animal that served in this capacity is not in the same league with PETA members.

Guess you don't own any dogs

I appreciate your posts & would like you to see this from a slightly different angle if you would.

Here's the situation....

A dog owner was under the assumption that you had wronged someone in some way. No killing, raping or kiddy diddling. Only thin circumstantial evidence of a REPORTED theft.

The owner sent their attack dog after you & it pursued you well beyond the area of the owner. You are being viciously attacked & there is no end in sight as the owner isn't in the area.

Please fill in the rest of the story from where I left off so we might be able to find common ground from these two opposing sides.

Honest request by me.
Thanks

Well, iffn' it's me, you hear BANG. Maybe another BANG.

I am not a robber, and I don't GAS who's dog attacks me, I will stop it if I can. The mistake (in my case) will be that the dog handler wasn't handling the eff'n dog.

I've been around and about on this site long enough for you to already KNOW what my answer to your HYPOTHETICAL (as in doesn't have a FARGIN" thing to do with the real meat of this post, or what's on the record regarding this PARTICULAR incident) "question".

You workin' on one of those online law degrees or something ?

GTC

You want normal and practical? A man is dead because he was stabbing a dog. The cop ran to him. The cop murdered the guy over a ffffuckin dog.

As for my "fear" of dogs, ill say it again. I have no problem being around dogs. But if you dont control YOUR dog, it dies. If YOU take exception to that, that threat will get dealt with too. Youre no different than me. From what ive read of your posts over the years, you either like to shoot your drunk mouth off or youd defend yourself from an attack no matter who it came from. Seema like you dont take no schit, so dont BS me that youll stand there and let a ffffuckinndog gnaw on you.

Messages of sympathy pour in regarding Oklahoma City police dog's death

The Oklahoma City Police Department has received an outpouring of support in the wake of the death of Kye, the K-9 who was stabbed while helping with a police pursuit Sunday night. Services for Kye will be at 11 a.m. Thursday at First Southern Baptist Church, 6400 S Sooner Road.

BY DARLA SLIPKE, Staff Writer �
Modified: August 27, 2014 at 5:00 pm �
Published: August 27, 2014



photo - Oklahoma City police K-9 Kye is shown in February during a demonstration on training involved for
police dogs. Kye died Monday after a stabbing attack Sunday. Photo by Chris Landsberger, The Oklahoman Archives

People from all over the world have been touched by the death of Kye, an Oklahoma City police dog who died Monday as a result of injuries he suffered while being stabbed in the line of duty.

The Oklahoma City Police Department has received an outpouring of support in the wake of Kye�s death, officers said. People from other states and even other countries have offered their sympathies, and a post on the police department�s Facebook page announcing Kye�s death had reached more than 4 million people as of Wednesday afternoon, police said.

A woman from Belgium sent photos of Kye when he was a puppy, which the police department posted on Facebook. Another woman sent a photo of Kye posing with her young son.

�We greatly appreciate all of the support and well wishes from around the world in this time of loss,� Oklahoma City police Capt. Dexter Nelson wrote in an email. �We apologize that we are simply unable to respond to everyone. Messages are being forwarded to the OCPD K-9 Unit.�

Kye, a 3-year-old German shepherd, died Monday after being stabbed multiple times Sunday night by a man who led authorities on a pursuit that ended near the Goldsby exit on Interstate 35, police said. The man, Mark Salazar, 22, of Blue Mound, Texas, was fatally shot by Kye�s handler, K-9 Sgt. Ryan Stark, police said.

Stark has been placed on administrative leave pending the outcome of standard criminal and administrative investigations by the police department.

Services for Kye will be at 11 a.m. Thursday at First Southern Baptist Church, 6400 S Sooner Road. The service is open to the public, and it will be conducted with full police honors.

Kye joined the Oklahoma City Police Department in July 2012, and hit the streets with Stark in October 2012, according to a tribute video posted on the police department�s Facebook page. He was responsible for 55 apprehensions, which included the recovery of 250 grams of methamphetamine, 17 grams of cocaine and 92 grams of marijuana, police said. He also helped to locate numerous missing persons. In addition to his patrol duties, Kye was a member of the Police Tactical Unit.

Nelson wrote in his email that the Oklahoma City Police Department cannot accept cash donations in response to Kye�s death. The department�s K-9 Unit is asking that people who would like to make donations do so to smaller police departments in the state that may be able to accept donations or to K-9 search and rescue, service animal or comfort dog organizations. People should check the legitimacy of any organization they choose to donate to, police said.

Anyone wishing to send flowers can send them to the First Southern Baptist Church, 6400 S Sooner Road, Oklahoma City, OK 73135. Cards and other correspondence can be sent to police headquarters, 701 Colcord Drive, Oklahoma City, OK 73102.

I don't worry about my blood pressure,....

YOU do.

You're also TERRIFIED of dogs, and make that more plain in every single ranting word you put up here.

Go drink fish oil, Hang out with cats, STFU for a day or two, you fargin' nitwit.

GTC

so you don't believe in Presumption of Innocence either. either...got it. [/quote]

Innocence of what? Evading arrest & fleeing ? At high speed? In many places, that in & of itself is a felony.

All the guy had to do was pull over once they lit him up & the rest wouldn't have happened. Reading the responses here, I'm surprised this type schitt doesn't happen more often.

Naw. Just got done with another 14hr day, having a beer, & ruffling the local feathers.

Lots of emotions here on both sides.

If my dog was shot by someone & my dog wasn't at fault, there would more than hell to pay.

But......

If I'm attacked by a dog & I feel it's unjust, bye bye dog.

I guess it comes down to the fact of whether the guy was already guilty or still innocent.

Innocence of what? Evading arrest & fleeing ? At high speed? In many places, that in & of itself is a felony.

All the guy had to do was pull over once they lit him up & the rest wouldn't have happened. Reading the responses here, I'm surprised this type schitt doesn't happen more often.[/quote]




Done arguing with the folks that believe we should live in a police state. Puzzy sent an animal to do a man's job & got his vag sanded when it went south for his critter.

Keep your fawkin dog away from me unless you can control it like I can mine.

We'll get along fine then.

The way I understood the article, the officer ran up to pull the dog off...& that's when he realized the guy had a knife & was stabbing the dog (Hint: It was dark)...did you expect him to try wrestling the knife out of the guys hand??? The cop murdered him? JFC!!! You guys sound like that fuggin bunch of boos up in Ferguson...& your trying to portray this azzwipe as a victim? Unfuggin believable!!!

I've done a bit of "Rescue Trapping".

Being at just about the right distance from, "the big smoke", my home area / stomping grounds is an apparently IDEAL location to abandon pets,...

...sad business, seeing Dogs, Cats, Guinea Pigs, Rabbits and Ferrets stumbling around on baked adobe roads,....lost, their life (what's left of it in a shambles).

The Reptiles, Raptors, and Coyotes deal with the bulk of this problem. In a realistic and humane fashion, locals will pull up next to one of these poor critters and end it's suffering.

The ones that DO make it into the live traps, little Fifi and Bon-Bon,....get a ride to the shelter, and a second chance, We have GOOD shelters, and some damn fine rescue groups trying to keep that airplane flying.

There are, as one with any sense would expect, another type of abandoned dog entirely, LARGE aggressive breeds that are prone to go try and TAKE what they want, and certainly pack up in "Feral" mode.

Can't speak to what happens to THEM.....use your imagination,...
and think about #4 Buck as a likely solution to a challenging and ongoing problem.

WTF this thread has degenerated into a "Black and White, no shades of gray" chit flingin' pretty much eludes me.

Maybe I don't spend enough time in towns, or something.

GTC

Can't imagine spending the better part of my life in prison for killing someone who shot my dog. Beating the living piss out of them.......sure.

you're talking at someone who's completely off the rails, batchit crazy on this particular subject (dogs,)...and perhaps a KOTY sock puppet.

lotsa' luck

GTC

Tell you what Dancing Bear...The next time a squad car goes to pull you over, make a statement...Hop on the nearest highway & stomp on the accelerator...keep going until they do a pit maneuver & then jump out & run...let us know how that works out for ya...

Where in the hell are all these jackasses coming from? I put two on ignore today....There's only one I put there before, & that was that pants pissen Maser.

Name calling? Liberal tactic. Come on now. I honestly know you can do better.
Jump & run? Naw I'm more of the stand & fight type but I'd expect the same result.




Cross.... I live a very rural life, keep to myself & mind my own business. I see the same things happen here (1000+ miles north) as you elude to in your last reply.

Bear--good post. But don't expect an intelligent answer from the pathetic morons who believe LE is there to execute wrong-doers.

I heard the Westies are going down there to protest the whole thing.

Maybe, but that copper murdered him for stabbing a dog.


Regardless of how you lot feel about the dog, it was chewing on a citizen that is supposedly innocent until proven guilty, and the copper is at fault for setting his dog on a citizen and for killing the citizen without legal cause.

It's not uncommon to use a dog to apprehend a fleeing suspect.

It seems as though this would be ONE of the primary reasons for having the k-9 unit.

It is also not uncommon for LE to murder innocent citizens.

I don't know what kind of LE you have in Southern California, but the LE out here do not make a habit of killing innocent citizens. ..not even close. It would be highly "uncommon" for this situation to happen here. They do have a k-9 unit, and I know the dog would be used to chase down a fleeing suspect. It's not uncommon for guilty citizens to run.

Yes, and the dogs are a viable tool, but coppers do not get the right to allow that tool to chew on citizens and do not have the right to summarily execute the citizens that object to being chewed upon.

And I thought it was common to be considered innocent until proven guilty.

And apprehend is not the same as shoot and kill.

boils down to this:

a man is killed for defending himself from a dog.

without Presumption of Innocence, it's easy. whoever the dog bites is guilty. police dogs are used for this schitt because they are just that, DOGS, and take much of the risk away from the officer. if you elevate the value of a dog to greater than the citizens you are serving, you may as well use humans to take the risk away from the dog. oh, wait. that's kind of what happened...

Right. The Judicial System starts at the arrest, not the execution.

That's only the cop's side of the story. Chances are that it's pretty close to the truth, but we don't just accept the cop's side of things in a society of laws. That's what courts are for.

It would be entirely different if some dude walked up to his police dog and started stabbing it. The guy likely perceived himself to be in a struggle for his own life when he pulled his knife in self-defense. A dog is a lethal weapon, and that's how the cop used it. A man who's presumed innocent has every right to defend his life from persistent and deadly attack. That said, I perfectly understand the state of mind that led the police officer to do what he did. The question is whether that's enough. I doubt it.

+1

Perhaps that's the problem.

That is one of the reasons K-9's are used Hawkeye. As far as a dog being a "lethal weapon", well yes, an untrained dog could be. I've worked with a K-9 and his handler and have attended many K-9 competitions and I never walked away thinking any of those animals were trained to kill.

K9s are not a lethal force instrument.

George

Perhaps you feel qualified to explain the standard K9s need to achieve to certify or the circumstances necessary to deploy an apprehension trained dog........

George

Thanks, George.

Fall is in the air, and KOTY contenders are in full flower.
...this particular thread has more CRAZINESS in it than I've seen in a long time.

work safe, Mister.

GTC

Not with that intention in mind, certainly, but any severe bodily injury can result in death.

Yep, because that's what it says on the books, right?

The cop had legal cause to release the dog...I imagine fleeing a group of squad cars is reason enough but the fact is that the chase started at the scene of a reported burglary...If the asshat had just taken the Ferguson protestors advice (Hands up, don't shoot) there wouldn't be an issue.
You guys are fixating on fuggin dog...the guy was being chased at high speed from the scene of a reported burglary by who knows how many squad cars. He crashed into a ditch & fled on foot. I wasn't there but I imagine the officers thought the best chance for them to catch the azzhole was to release the dog...when the K9 handler caught up to the dog "to pull him off" he noticed the dog was being stabbed with a knife. Cop shot the guy...most likely the cop was within striking distance of the guy with the knife...the investigation is still ongoing.
K9 handlers don't just willy nilly set their dogs loose

With not knowing all the particulars, who would you have preferred for a neighbor? The cop or the supposed victim?

Seems so simple doesn't it? Honest to goodness no brainer here... Which says a lot about many here IMO.

Once dogs which are legally considered tools of the police are elevated to equal to officers who are (these days) more valuable than those they are intended to 'serve' we are no longer citizens; we are subjects.

Damage the king's property & suffer the consequences. Shut up and get in line....

Bingo!

How is he a supposed victim? Are you disputing the fact that he is dead?

Probable cause for that level of force or not, the guy is a victim.

Of course you were there and know all the facts.

Umm, I am pretty sure most are fixating on the salient fact that the copper shot and killed him.

"Stark made his way to the man�s location to pull the dog off of the man, at which point he saw the driver had a knife and was stabbing the police dog, police said. Stark was in close proximity to the driver at the time, police said. Stark fatally shot the man, and the police dog was taken to a veterinarian for emergency surgery."

You goobers are worse than the gaboons in Ferguson.

According to TRH, a victim is a person who is damaged through no fault of their own...This guy was a "victim" of his own stupidity.

Well, were you?

K-9s aren't sent after every bullshiite tom dick or Harry either.

And you are defending someone who killed a man for stabbing a dog.

The man earned for himself some portion of his troubles, assuming the police account is accurate, but being shot to death exceeds the portion he may have earned by a long stretch. Thus, he was a victim.

Unfortunately the use of force sometimes escalates during the apprehension. Ferguson MO case in point.

I understand that wasnt directed specifically at me, but......

I'm consistent in my stance, and have stated so here over the years, that I don't get to utilize deadly force on someone who s stabbing my dog. If, however, I move in to out/remove my K9 and the knife work continues in my general vicinity, the scenariois going to be revisited.

Dogs are not people and every situation is unique.

George

Well....what if the scenario had played out differently???
Say the perp eluded the pursuing officers...the officers set up a perimeter...perp breaks into a house & ends up killing or stabbing somebody?

What if he managed to hijack another car with little kids in the back seat??? He gets back on I35 & during the ensuing chase, looses control of the car, killing the kids. What then?

Then you stupid fuggers would be crying about the cops not doing enough...geeze some of you guys are clueless...

It'll be interesting to find out this jackasses priors as well as the toxicology report...

Apparently you are correct, if the CITIZEN doesn't like getting mauled, he will be shot.

Semantics again???

Shouldn't the "knife work" continue for as long as the threat to the wielder persists? Isn't that how you justify shooting a threat till they're no longer a threat? And I agree with the latter, but then the former should be valid as well.

What I'm doing is refusing to condemn a man for what may very well be a legitimate use of deadly force. What evidence do you have that it was not? The media? TRH?

Based on that sort of "reasoning," just about anything could be "justified," couldn't it?

No sir which is why I'm not jumping to conclusions and calling anyone a murderer.

I fully agree a k9 should not be elevated to the status of a human. The penalties for killing one shouldn't even come close to taking a human life regardless of how I feel for dogs.

That is most definitely more than acceptable, if the fellow is an immediate threat to the officer or another citizen than the copper has absolutely no option other than use force.

I recall a guy that was shredding his estranged wife's bed with a knife.

I certainly wasn't going to pop him for that, but when I asked him pretty please to put down the knife, his subsequent reaction nearly warranted 4.0lb on the bang switch...

Oh ok... I'd define victim differently than that; clearly this guy does not fall under the "no fault of his own" category.

Language is the vehicle by which ideas are communicated. Fine distinctions are thus essential if one wishes to understand important ideas with precision.

In this case you are extremely keen on defending his actions, as is MM.


The original post says that the officer shot the fellow whilst he was stabbing the dog.

Nah, if he didn't want to be mauled he shouldn't have fled.

Exactly; and for not accommodating the officer benefit of a doubt and saying "perp got what he had coming; he'd be dead if he did that to my dog too!!" we're blind 'fergusonites'.

Give the officer a hearing in a REAL court which recognizes an officer's safety, not a dog's life, determine level of force.

Based on your & (others) reasoning, the police shouldn't have even been pursuing him because he was innocent until proven guilty...

I'd like to clarify that I personally see no problem with applying deadly force against a man in the act of stabbing one's dog. There was much more to this than that, however, i.e., the dog was in the process of "stabbing" the man with his canines when it happened, and that absent justification (i.e., the cop wasn't in imminent danger when he sicced his dog), that is to say, it was self-defense on the part of the stabber.

Not a problem, you seem to have no problem using your dog as a weapon to "maul" fellow citizens, so I would guess that you have no problem killing them as well if they object to the "mauling".

And you lot wonder why so many detest coppers.

..you neglected to mention a chit stirrer on the other side of the dateline who's cooped up nursing some bug that he gets this time of year.
...no REAL input, just stirring chit, so's to smell of it.

GTC

Incorrect, I don't even have issue with a dog being used to bring down a runner so long as the officer isn't casually wandering about peering at pixies whilst the dog mauls the fellow...I do have issue with killing the fellow because he is fighting the dog off, with a weapon or without.

Same old drunk coming out with the same old stale drunk bum rubbish.

Go away and sober up.

The man lost any claim to "self defense" when he started fleeing...

Best post on the thread and it is such a sterling idea that you should also include the driver...oh wait...he is dead so I am guessing he doesn't get his day in court.

That right there is a glaring problem with the trajectory of this situation.

The man, is dead.

That is as measured and professional a response as I can imagine.

Due to his own stupidity...

You know jack chit about me, or my condition of sobriety, you goddam nosy, mouthy fool.

WTF don't you go pollute an Australian site, instead of making this vicarious public masturbation play of yours ?

GTC

Because I really enjoy subjecting myself to drunken tirades from silly old bums that have nothing else to do other than vent their grog sodden spleen at those that attract the attention of sore old myopic inebriated peepers.


Do yourself a favour and climb out of the bottle.

Due to being shot for stabbing an attacking dog.


If stupidity were terminal old drunks would already be dead instead of just smelling that way.

I'm reading that you enjoy STIRRING CHIT, and note that you'll come down on either side of several clearly demarcated philosophical fences just to do so.

You HAVE no goddam keel, and I doubt a rudder or compass was included in your build, you pathetic dipchit.

I got chores to do,...

GTC

Yes I am sure you do, knock one back for me whilst you are at it.

Dog funeral LIVE

I understand it being a good dog and all, but this is kinda ridiculous...

Oklahoma Highway Patrol troopers led the pursuit when the driver was speeding southbound on Interstate 35 in Norman, Oklahoma City police Capt. Dexter Nelson said.

Troopers used tactics to end the pursuit near the Goldsby exit on I-35, where the vehicle hit a ditch west of the highway, Nelson said.

Reckless, dangerous driving by the robbery suspect. Using "tactics" to force him off the road looks pretty good to me.

Oklahoma City K9 officers and gang unit officers stayed back with troopers until the driver got out of the vehicle and started running south near the service road.

Can't let this guy go. True, the officers don't have an arrest warrant and the guy hasn't been indicted by a grand jury, but he's exhibiting dangerous behavior and has committed criminal acts in full view of the pursuing officers; reckless driving and fleeing/attempting to elude.

A K9 officer, who later was identified as Stark, let the police dog chase the driver.

The story doesn't say, but I think it's reasonable to suppose that the officers have been screaming "stop!" ever since the suspect got out of his car. He didn't stop. The story doesn't say, but we might consider the possibility that he was running faster than any of the officers.

The K9, later identified as Kye, apprehended the driver as he ran behind a business, police said.

Stark made his way to the man�s location to pull the dog off of the man, at which point he saw the driver had a knife and was stabbing the police dog, police said. Stark was in close proximity to the driver at the time, police said.

The story doesn't say how long Stark was in close proximity to the suspect while the suspect was stabbing the dog. The story doesn't say how many times the suspect stabbed the dog while Stark was in close proximity. The story doesn't say what Stark was saying to the suspect between the time that Stark came into close proximity and the time Stark shot the suspect. I would like more information about this.


Stark fatally shot the man, and the police dog was taken to a veterinarian for emergency surgery.

Based on what we know - from the story - I'd be inclined to trust the officer's judgment in fatally shooting the suspect. Pending more information on the subject above.

From a legal standpoint, a K9 is considered a tool that an officer uses, Nelson said. However, police officers view them as partners, he said.

A police officer could not shoot a person solely for attacking a K9 dog, but officers are trained that they can use lethal force when they are within 21 to 25 feet of a person with a knife if the situation warrants, Nelson said.

The suspect was in close proximity and - I'm speculating, here - may have been within 21 to 25 feet of the officer while the suspect was shanking the dog an unknown number of time and - again, I'm speculating, here - the officer is screaming something to the effect of "Put down the knife!" and the suspect didn't put down the knife. If subsequent information doesn't materially conflict with what we know from a news story posted on the internet, I'm inclined to think that the officer acted correctly.

You keep leaving out the part about the pursuit, and after the pursued " suspect" was TC'd and he bailed and started running, being the point the dog was released.

And don't try and tell me that he was probably unaware that he was being pursued.

I just caught this thread, and can only echo what George said ( NHK9) and add, like many others, that this is a case where disparity exists between what IS the law,and how I personally feel it should be handled.

As far as I am concerned, the idiot was killed for resisting arrest with a deadly weapon.

That's about the way I took it from the get go. Just as the article stated

Gee, didn't know you were Irish...

You're pretty good at jumping to unfounded conclusions. Perhaps a sarcasm emoticon after my last post would've helped. You can act butt hurt all you want but the fact is I made nor inferred any of the bs you spouted

I'm not sure I agree. What you're suggesting is a right to punish belonging to the cops. You can't be talking about justified dog siccing, since dog siccing is only justified in the law (as traditionally understood in the US) in self-defense or defense of innocent others, both of which require imminent serious threat.

How so?

Probably...but it is an interesting conversation, and seems to have come down squarely along party lines.

The dog wasn't trying to arrest him. The dog was tearing him up.

Can't argue that Sir. The dog is a tool that needs to be used judiciously. Like I said before, not every potential scumbag is deserving of a bite.

TRH....exactly what do you disagree with?

I think I've been clear thus far. What part of what I've said is confusing you?

I stand corrected as I have reread your posts and you most definitely have not been defending his actions.


And I have got to say that asking a deceptively simple question like that is very rude...I actually had to go back and read your posts.

Read the post I quoted & be specific about what you disagree with...

Again, I've fully expressed my position on this situation.

lol

Criminitly, give him a summation counselor, unless your concerned about contradicting yourself.

Let me clear up any misconception you may have on my thoughts about dogs...I have three. Those three are generally confined to my house & my back yard...If I found you or anybody else in either & you were actively stabbing or even attempting to stab them, you'd most likely end up dead. If I had invited you into either my back yard or house & one of them tried to bite you, I'd promptly kill it myself...

If I thought any of my dogs were of a mind to bite somebody if they somehow got loose & were running free in the neighborhood, I'd kill them...I have no compassion or use for either undisciplined or vicious dogs.

TRH contradicting himself??? Shirley you jest...

Come on man...you spend a good part of your day here...
Is it really that inconvenient to answer the question?
Prolly only take 5 minutes or less.

Thanks George. I've been retired for several years and thought maybe something had changed, you know since all the cops are now patrolling in armored tanks and carrying RPG's as a sidearm.............

You can fall in the shower too and die..........what is your point ? K-9's will bite to subdue a subject and will usually continue to do so until said POS stops resisting or is commanded by the handler to do so. You need to listen to guys like NH-K9 instead of pretending to know what your talking about on this subject. It appears that you know little about it.

Hawkeye seems reluctant to acknowledge a difference between a bite-to-hold and a savage mauling.

As much so as Bill Clinton was a victim of angry conservatives for blowing a load in a fat pig...

It's the difference between a pit bull and a trained K-9 coupled with his ignorance on the subject.

Still waiting.

I hear you're in reasonably great shape.

Should bode well for you in case, by some chance, you are actually holding your breath while you wait.

He was reacting accordingly...

He's reluctant to acknowledge a lot of things...either that or his reading comprehension skills suck

The story doesn't say the dog was tearing up the suspect. Does Hawkeye have access to a different story?

Perhaps he read it in the Morgan chronicles.........

You guys are talking about Obi-Dog Kin-obi.

When that K-9 was doing his business, TRH felt a great disturbance in the farce.

I hope somebody here posts a followup on the investigation...
I'd be interested to know what his arrest record's like, as well as the toxicology report.

That right there is funny...good sig line material.

The dog was being used as a tool to affect the arrest.

Let us always remember that no matter how atached to our dogs we may be, they are not people and we cannot go down the slippery slope of giving them the same protections.

People are innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. This doesn't stop police from responding to violent situations all over the country every minute of every day. I believe this man was told to stop [for a good reason] and kept running.

I believe the LE was done with the "apprehend" after the citizen failed to stop what he was doing and put down his weapon. Just my take on it. It will be interesting to see what comes of this and how much information was left out from the beginning.

Upon further reflection, I am seeing this in a different light. A man was killed. Dead forever with no chance of a new life, over a purely property crime. This should never occur.

If a person is stealing my stuff, no matter what stuff, no matter what stuff it is or how valuable, he will never see the business end of any of my weapons. Whether that weapon be a gun, knife or dog. All can cause injury, scarring and or death. If a dog is biting me, whether it be a pit bull, a poodle or a K-9, I am going to fight back with whatever I have on hand to make the biting and pain stop as soon as possible. This is a reaction that is so deeply ingrained into our DNA and sub-concieousness that to try to hold a person accountable for action during a large dog vs person encounter is beyond silly and wholly unreasonable.

The perp may have been a multi offending career criminal, but he did not deserve a death sentence. Nor should any person stabbing any dog be given a death sentence. A criminals live is a human life. A dog is a dog, no matter how noble or highly trained that dog might be, or how atached we might be to that dog.

Slightly outside the scope of this conversation, but very pertinent is this: If we begin to ascribe the right to life that we have to a dog, ANY dog or other animal, then the animal rights groups have great moral ground and standing, as well as CASE HISTORY then, with which to attack those of us who hunt. All that wouod then have to be established is the supposed nobility of this or that anumal, or someone's emotional atatchment to an animal or species and POOF! hunters are then classed as murderers and deserving of capitol punishment. In some cases imeediately and without trial by the person who ascribed nobility or emotional atatchment to said animal.

I do not think that any of us, and I am a dog lover with three of them, can afford to go down that road. We as a people and nation cannot go down that road.

It is sad that this fine dog died, truly. But the man who was stabbing it was acting in reasonable and expected self defense at that particular moment of time. The officer was not in danger as far as we know, and if this is the case (no imminent danger to the officer) he is in grave error here.

As I see it, if you use dogs as tools for apprehension, know that you unleashing an animal on a human being who might react -and reasonably so - in great fear and in a life or death defensive manner.

Mark, read the post I'm quoting & tell me what you disagree with.

Exactly right.

You may believe so, if you wish, although you are not required to by law.

The court must presume innocence until proof of guilt; i.e., the judge and the jury, but that is a legal formality. A man cannot be convicted until he's proven guilty.

But innocent until proven guilty in a court of law?

You can watch a man commit a crime and know he's guilty and even testify so at a trial, but if a jury then finds that he has not been proven guilty, despite your testimony, is he innocent?

At least this sums up pretty much what I thought. You're a phucing idiot

I knew we had something in common. I feel exactly the same way.

Unless I'm one of the ignored. Then nevermind.....

Spot on...i've never heard a Jury return an "innocent" decision

Sorry, but you are wrong. The guy was being arrested for suspected robbery, had a knife in which he used to kill a police dog. Guess what, the dickhead doesn't do that and he still is alive today. Its squarely his fault, not the cops. Do stupid things and expect stupid results. Too many bad people around these days and I don't feel for any of them. Whos to say if your wife stepped out he wouldn't be using the knife on her. Sounds like a job well done to me, one less pos walking this green earth.

who's to say if your wife stepped out, she wouldn't be defending herself from the dog...

Completely different contexts and scenarios

really? wow...

How do you figure she would be?

You're a long ways off from the ignore feature. To earn an ignore, you have to be a "special" kind of stupid...

Say the dog wasn't unleashed & while still trying to escape, he carjacked the woman...I mean...if were gonna play MAKE BELIEVE at least keep it in context. Apparently you don't have a clue how k9 handlers use their dogs.

Do you mean "if your wife stepped out of the getaway vehicle and ran from the cops"?

Does anyone really know for sure?

Cmon Toad, you know this is different. If any member of my family is being attacked by a dog, even my own dog its dead. This is not that, this is a suspected criminal that had a deadly weapon and some of you are trying to make excuses for him. He had a knife in the dark, just fresh off a robbery and was killing a police dog. Officer approached and finished him. How is that a problem?

If the cop shot him for stabbing the dog alone...it is a problem, however, there is no reason to believe that the guy wasn't a threat to the officer also.

I think some of the issues people are having is that the thread title is slightly misleading. Upon reading one sort of assumes that the reason the guy was shot was that he was stabbing the dog. Nothing I read in the OP's article gave me that belief

GC, what is your take on this case of an OKC pharmacist who shot a young armed negro punk who tried to rob his establishment and was convicted of 1st degree murder, and received a life sentance?


Former pharmacist Jerome Ersland loses appeal

The Oklahoma Court of Criminal Appeals rejected former pharmacist's complaints about his murder trial but did order new trial for one of two felons accused of planning a drugstore robbery.

by Nolan Clay
Modified: June 20, 2013 at 10:10 pm �
Published: June 20, 2013

Former pharmacist Jerome Jay Ersland has lost his first appeal of his murder conviction.

The Oklahoma Court of Criminal Appeals on Thursday unanimously rejected all of his complaints. Ersland will appeal next to Oklahoma City federal court.

Ersland, 61, is serving a life sentence for fatally shooting a teenage robber inside the Reliable Discount Pharmacy in south Oklahoma City on May 19, 2009. An Oklahoma County jury convicted him at a trial in 2011 of first-degree murder.

�Well, I guess the only shot then is federal court,� his appeals attorney, Doug Friesen, said. �I�m surprised � I still believe in the stuff I put down there � I think it�s a significantly longer shot now, significantly.�

The appeals court did reverse the first-degree murder conviction of one of the two longtime felons accused of planning the robbery.

In a 3-2 opinion, the appeals court on Thursday ordered a new trial for Emanuel D. �E Man� Mitchell, 35, because he was not allowed to represent himself. In a separate opinion, the appeals court upheld the first-degree murder conviction of his cousin, Anthony D. �Black� Morrison, 47.

The two men recruited Antwun �Speedy� Parker, 16, and Jevontai Ingram, then 14, to rob the drugstore, according to testimony at their trial. Morrison gave Ingram a gun and Mitchell waited outside in a stolen getaway car, according to the testimony.

Inside the drugstore, Ersland shot Parker in the head, knocking Parker to the floor. Surveillance videos show he then chased after a fleeing Ingram, came back inside the drugstore, got a second gun and shot Parker five more times.

The case sparked a national debate. Ersland claimed he was defending himself and two female co-workers, but prosecutors said he went too far.

The appeals court found the evidence presented at trial was sufficient to support the murder conviction.

�We conclude the physical and forensic evidence showed that, when Ersland returned to the pharmacy and shot Parker five times in the body, Parker was unarmed and unconscious but alive, and did not pose a threat to Ersland or anyone else in the pharmacy,� the judges wrote in the 39-page opinion.

�Evidence further showed that, in order to shoot Parker, Ersland stepped across Parker�s body, turned his back, went behind the counter, put down his empty revolver, opened a drawer, took out the Kel Tec, walked to where Parker lay on the floor, stood over him, and fired five shots almost straight down into Parker�s body, close together and in rapid succession. Ersland did not appear flustered or hurried, and acted in a deliberative manner,� they wrote.

Ersland�s chief complaint in his appeal was that his lead trial attorney, Irven Box, was inept and made mistakes that cost him a fair trial. The appeals court, though, wrote: �A painstaking review of the entire record shows that trial counsel zealously represented Ersland.�

May I? It is not a good idea to execute anybody...even if they tried to rob you earlier.

Good conviction

. . . but it is OK to "execute" a man with a knife because he is stabbing your "dog?"

I remember that case. It was discussed at length here, in fact.

He shouldn't have fired the coup de gr�ce shots, but one has trouble sympathizing with the thug he offed. Too bad there's no lesser offense for offing someone who just moments earlier tried to rob you at gunpoint. You'd think the doctrine of "heat of passion" would have come heavily into play, which would have reduced the charge to manslaughter. The jury might have thought his actions too deliberate to qualify for that. Were they even given the option?

Either you are an idiot or just stirring shytt. Which is it?

Was the guy with the knife lying unconscious on the ground when he was shot?

Trick question. I presume you know the answer.

I agree with you guys on this and I'm not sure how I got turned around on that point. ..

In that scenrio the end result would be the same for him, shot to death, but this time by a person (my sweet, petite and angelic looking wife who packs a lazer sight equipped full 9x19) who had a demonstrable, clear and reasonable suspicion that she was about to be injured and was in iminent danger.

This is what we all do not know here. If the perp was on his back or stomach stabbing away in defense then this was a bad shoot. If he was upright and able to close distance between himself and the officer then that is a different story. But if, as many of us here suspect, this previously running perp or suspect was on the ground and only fighting for his safety and life then this cop is probably in big time hot water, and rightfully so.

We have to wait for more details to come out on this, IF they are ever made available.

All that said, I DO know and understand that the job of a police officer is difficult, we all have and get caught in our own emotions and human beings sometimes act in anger or emotion and do things which are all too easy to Monday morning Quarterbacked and torn asunder with more time to pick it apart than what the officer had on hand. Heck, even those of us who have hunted much have invariably pulled a trigger when we would have been wiser not to. The heat of a moment, anxiety and other emotions can take over. Unfortunately, we expect police officers to be calm, cool and perfectly rational at times when most human beings would not be able to keep everything in check. So, if it turns out that the shoot was not perfect, I hope that there is some leniency for that set of problems which are also real.

I am not going to call this one way or the other, need more info, but wanted to bring to the table my concerns regarding giving TOO much weight and legal precedent to the killing of a dog, and the sub cranial realities that all of us harbor regarding defending ourselves against a creature that looks and acts a lot like the wolves of old who preyed on our ancestors for food.

Where is this imaginary guy doing the stabbing? In my house? In my yard? Time of day? Circumstances? Have I warned him to drop the knife?


ETA: If he's in my house, it wouldn't matter what time of day & he wouldn't be warned to drop the knife...

Its hard to say in any of these situations as we were not there. From the outside looking in, I don't give twoshits about the pos that was shot trying to rob the pharm. He got what he deserved. That said I'm also aware of law though and if he is posing no threat you cant execute him without consequence. I also fail to see how this compares to the original story.

Ok I agree with most of that. Well said.

...looks like "many here" are having some sorta' conniption fit / anxiety attack / or nervous breakdown,...posting about these stupid, and totally chitty "Suspicions".

"Suspicions" founded in WHAT !?

You find yourself at close quarters, in a dark place, with a CAR JACKER wielding a bloody knife,...

OOOOooooo, I know,...we'll call Ann Landers, or Miss Manners for Legal advice.

Lotta crazy, and really STUPID crap being posted about this event.

GTC

Yup

Right, on case by individual case basis.

"Knock Out" game players are "criminal lives"

....are you hosting a pity party for THEM when a NORMAL American blows their chit away,....e.g. "Executes" them.

You're preaching to a pretty jaded crowd, Bub.

GTC

If someone is taking hard swings at innocent people, a reasona ble person would surmise that those innocent people are in harms way and the counter force factor goes up both legally and morally.

I might (probably would) let someone take one sucker punch shot at me and not retaliate. Take that shot at my wife or an elderly person and I will make you bleed and hurt more, by whatever means is neccesary. Most state's laws, last time I took any courses on such, recognize the legitimacy of such.

MiddleforkMiner,

I do not disagree with what you highlighted, but my main point was that we do not know many things about this incident. Certainly not enough to fully Monday morning Quarterback this cop. But I stand by my statement that if the perp was defensless on the ground save for his knife and could not likely close the distance between himself and the officer than the officer made a bad choice, albeit in a heated and tense moment full of emotions and such.

Thank you. I think that most of us agree that 1) more info is needed to make a call on this and 2) We cannot allow a police officer or court give the same legal standing and protection to a dog as to a human. I THINK that most of us agree that if the fleeing suspect was defensless other than trying to fight off a dog at the time of the shooting, the officer used poor judgement. Though anyone judging him needs to weigh the emotions and drama of the moment in balance.

Is both an option?

Mark

It was a post I quoted...I didn't highlight it. I agree about the monday morning quarterback issue, but I don't share your compassion for people exhibiting the type of behavior that led to this guy getting killed...IMHO, the guys own stupidity is what got him killed.

More than a little ridiculous . . . IMO



Oklahoma City Police K-9 officer Sgt. Darren Heath and "Eli" salute the casket during a
funeral service for Kye, a 3-year-old German shepherd at First Southern Baptist Church
in Oklahoma City, Thursday August 28, 2014. Kye was stabbed multiple times by a man
who ran from police on Sunday after a police chase. Photo By Steve Gooch, The Oklahoman



Chief Bill Citty during a funeral service for Kye,Stark's 3-year-old German shepherd at
First Southern Baptist Church in Oklahoma City, Thursday August 28, 2014.


Honor Guard fold the flag during a funeral service for Kye, a 3-year-old German shepherd
at First Southern Baptist Church in Oklahoma City, Thursday August 28, 2014.


Oklahoma City Police K-9 officers carry the casket during a funeral service for Kye,
a 3-year-old German shepherd at First Southern Baptist Church in Oklahoma City, Thursday August 28, 2014.



Wonder where they are going to bury him?

Like you'd give a fu(k...
I used to think you were a pretty decent guy, I guess I just didn't read enough of your posts.

Well you are in the (NON) Hunters Campfire section

Thank you Okie. That's a wonderful tribute to a dog who deserved it. The dog did exactly what he was trained to do.

You are quite right that not just one, but a series of very bad decisions was made by this suspect. 1) to rob anyone or anybody 2) to run with the car while being pursued 3) to get out and run when there were many officers in close proximity with the liklihood of at least one being a K-9 unit. Many have died for far fewer bad decisions made in one evening. My only 'bone to pick' (REALLY bad pun there) was that if the suspect was not demonstrably a direct threat to that officer or another, and by this I mean a human officer, then deadly force was not called for. The suspects life at that moment was of immeasurably more value than that of any dog, K-9 or other.

We need to see what the other officers saw RE the suspects ability to actually press a charge or threat to an officer at the time he was shot. Only then can a judgement be fairly rendered.

You and I both have and love our dogs, but not for one minute would I choose the life of any of my dogs over any human life, even if that life was the current most wanted man in the USA.

Group insanity at it's finest.

It is a dog.

And the attempt to humanise the animal is pathetic beyond belief...by all means mourn a good dog, but to go beyond the pale like that is nothing more than a media stunt to grab tears and sympathy from halfwits.


Rampant bambi-ism.

Still doing your usual drive-by incoherent drunken rambling I see.

I notice that the only time you make any sense on a subject is when you cut and paste someone else's words...go slip back into a bottle you filthy old sot.

This post is pretty much the grist of the matter...and I might be more inclined to the officers side if the dog "funeral" wasn't such a farce.

Community says goodbye to slain K-9

PUBLISHED: AUGUST 29, 2014

Police estimated that more than 1,000 people, including members of the Oklahoma City Police Department, other law enforcement agencies and the public, gathered Thursday at First Southern Baptist Church in Oklahoma City for the funeral of Kye, the police dog who died Monday after being stabbed multiple times the night before, in the line of duty. Kye's handler, officer Sgt. Ryan Stark, wiped away tears as he sat with his wife, Carrie, and daughter, Tate, 5, during the service Thursday. Kye was a 3-year-old German shepherd who had served with the Oklahoma City Police Department for about two years. A man who led authorities on a chase Sunday night stabbed Kye when the dog caught up to him, police said. Stark fatally shot the man, Mark Salazar, 22, of Blue Mound, Texas, after trying to separate him from the dog, police said.

I know you have issues with the whole thing but get a copy of the police report, so we can see the official narrative.

Right now we got OrangeOkie said someone else said the police said "Stark fatally shot the man, Mark Salazar, 22, of Blue Mound, Texas, after trying to separate him from the dog"

Go cough up more blood clots, sicko.

You oughta' get your azz off that keyboard and seek some medical attention, before you start talking about "sense".
You did EXACTLY the same kinda' posting a year ago, when you were down with the same illness.

Eat chit and howl at the Southern Cross.

GTC

There's no GLARING irony in those 18 words,....it's more like,.....

....ya' know, I cannot come up with much else beside seriously GIBBLED text.

GTC

I'm merely posting the local newspaper reports. The shooting site is just up the road from our office. I'll go take a photo of the shooting site and post here for curiosity's sake. I'm sure the powers that be are going to follow the law. I just can't believe our laws allow a cop can to shoot someone dead because that person is killing a police dog that has attacked him. The church funeral and military honors for a dog is embarrassing in light of the human soldiers, sailors, airmen, and marines who have given the ultimate sacrifice.

I understand.

But does the report - and possibly the actual chain of events indicate the cop saw him knife the dog, then shot him, or the cop attempted to separate the man from the dog and entered harm's way via actions of the assailant?

Two big differences, and its not semantics in this case. It's pertinent, and quite possibly goes beyond the routine questioning of a reporter to one of his sources.

We differ there...lots of PURE EVIL sons of bitches in this world. All too often, I'm either reading about or listening to a news report about some "human life" person raping, stabbing, robbing & THEN dousing with gas & setting them on fire while they're still alive.

Were you still living here when Lawrence Singleton chopped up that gal?
You would actually choose to sacrifice one of your dogs in lieu of somebody like him???

I just can't wrap my mind around that...

Spot on..

Yes friend, and I mean that term "friend" in the most literal and sincere manner, this is where we differ.

I was not living there when the Middleton murder took place. But, I would like to think, and hope, that if I had to choose between m dogs life - and may now aging old Labradoor Goober is sitting beside me here as I type - and that of Mr. Middleton I would spare him VS even my own precious and member of the family (including being on the bed with me often when I nap) dog.

The difference, I guess, is that I know that even Mr. Middleton has an opportunity to escape hell and become a new creature with all sins forgiven and covered by the blood of Christ Jesus up until his last concious moment on this planet. I know that our amazing God, loves even him and is ANXIOUS to forgive and redeem even him. About 2/3 of the new testament was written by Paul, who when he was Saul the persecuter stood overseeing the long, painful deaths of many Christians via the method of stoning to death. Including the stoning to death of Stephen before his Christ encounter changed and regenerated him. Then we have David, who after committing adultery with the mans wife (and her becoming pregnant with Solomon as a result), had his most loyal General Uriah killed - murder here- to cover up his great sin. Yet God said of him later "This is a man after my own heart" And he wrote the Psalms and other books of the OT.

Goober, fine and loyal dog that he is, faces neither heaven nor hell. Goober has not been given an eternal existence with immense ramifications like we all have. God calls it "The breath of life" and is one key way that we are "Made in his image" Goober will experience a quiet ceasing of existence when he passes on. Which I will honor and mourn appropriately, but not with a high dollar casket or a church funeral.

This photo explains the ridiculousness of a "dog funeral with honors"



Pennsylvania state troopers salute as the casket of Cpl. Bryon Dickson is brought into
St. Peter's Cathedral on Sept. 18 in Scranton.
(Photo: Eileen Blass, USA TODAY)

Thousands mourn slain trooper; Pa. manhunt continues

SCRANTON, Pa. � Thousands of state troopers and police from around the country turned out in northeastern Pennsylvania Thursday to mourn a slain fellow trooper even as other officers intensified the search for his elusive killer.

As bagpipes played softly, mourners slowly filed into St. Peter's Cathedral, a landmark in Scranton's City Center, to pay their last respects to Cpl. Bryon Dickson.

Dickson was shot Friday outside his barracks in Blooming Grove, 40 miles to the east, by a sniper who critically wounded another trooper and just missed a dispatcher who ran to their aid.

A suspect, Eric Matthew Frein, described by authorities as an anti-government survivalist, faces first-degree murder and other charges. Tight security was in evidence outside the church, with sharpshooters perched on some taller buildings.

More than 1,000 officers � including state troopers and police from New York, New Jersey, Chicago, and Minnesota � stood in formation, shoulder to shoulder, in front of St. Peter's.

The flag-draped coffin of the 38-year-old former Marine was carried through the streets in a silver hearse in a procession led by hundreds of officers on motorcycles, their red and blue lights flashing.

[img]http://www.gannett-cdn.com/-mm-/b34...AY/2014/09/18/1411045825000-scranton.jpg[/img]
Scranton newspaper
The Sept. 18 edition of "The Times-Tribune" of Scranton, Pa., banners its top story on the search for Eric Matthew Frein.(Photo: The Times-Tribune)

Troopers in gray uniforms bowed their heads as a Marine honor guard presented the colors and American flag. Church bells rang slowly followed by the mournful sound of bagpipes.

Six troopers carried the coffin into the church followed by Dickson's sons, Bryon III and Adam, and wife, Tiffany.

From the altar, Father Thomas Muldowney, Pennsylvania State Police chaplain, told the congregation, "We gather here in sorrow, disbelief and anger. But most importantly we gather here in faith."

He then raised the "singular question" that he said was on everyone's mind: "Why did this heinous act of violence take place?" He asked why there are evil people in the world "who do not respect human life."

While Muldowney said Dickson's death might beg the question as to whether God exists, he called on them to take note that "Bryon's life was truly a gift from God himself."

"You can remember him � and only that he is gone," Muldowney said, "or cherish his memory and let it live on."

"Although our hearts today are heavy with grief, may we celebrate a life well-lived and find peace as we remember the many happy and special times that we shared with our fellow brother," he said. "May we believe that he is in a place where he will continue to watch over us as we move forward."

State Police Commissioner Frank Noonan said Dickson exemplified the honor code of the state police that call for troopers to "lay down my life as others have done before me, rather than swerve from the path of duty."

"Right now there's one man with one rifle that's committed a heinous crime," he said, "but there are hundreds of other dedicate men that are trying to bring him to justice."

Noonan also had words of comfort for trooper Alex Douglass, who was seriously wounded during the attack that killed Dickson.

"(Y)our state police brothers and sisters will be with you throughout your recovery and will see you through until your return to duty," he said.

Gov. Tom Corbett was among those in attendance. Thousands of others mourned at Dickson's solemn viewing Wednesday in the rotunda of Marywood University in Scranton.

Tom McKee, 48, was one of two Indiana State Police officers who made the 650-mile drive from Lafayette. McKee, a 20-year veteran of the force, said it's important that his force be represented whenever a state police officer is killed.

"Any time a police officer is targeted anywhere it affects us all. Every one of us realizes it could have been us," he said.

State Police Maj. Joseph Reed said he did not know Cpl. Bryon Dickson personally, but knew his work.

"He was an outstanding performer," said Reed, 56, who commands a post two hours south of here. "Every officer is touched by the tragedy. We're sad at the loss of a brother, but also determined to catch his killer."

Blooming Grove's barracks are virtually surrounded by hundreds of acres of the state game land that blankets much of rural Pike County in the Pocono Mountains. But residents across much of northeastern Pennsylvania fear Frein could be hiding in their neighborhoods and planning attacks. Some schools in the area have closed.

"There have been a lot of concerns expressed about community safety and specifically the safety of our children attending schools in the area," State Police Lt. Col. George Bivens said. "While we can never completely rule out an act of violence, I am convinced that Frein has engaged in a personal battle with law enforcement, specifically the Pennsylvania State Police, and will likely stay focused on that fight."

Carey Morgan, 38, who works in Scranton and lives in Moscow, another rural community about 30 miles from Blooming Grove, isn't convinced. The mother of three said her children's schools are open, but after-school activities are canceled and recess is being held indoors. Still, she said she may keep her kids home from school for a few days.

"I'm concerned about where he is right now � it's scary," Morgan said. "And we have barns. So you go out to do your chores and wonder 'Is he in the barn?'"

Bivens acknowledged that residents should "be alert and vigilant." Authorities are urging locals to lock homes, cars and sheds � and report anything that looks suspicious.

There's far too many who have/will escape the fires of hell.