We keep hearing from cops how it's OK to kill someone who make a "firtive" movement. Do they even know what it means?

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/furtive

1. Characterized by stealth; surreptitious.
2. Expressive of hidden motives or purposes; shifty

1. characterized by stealth; sly and secretive

1. taken, done, used, etc., surreptitiously or by stealth; secret: a furtive glance.
2. sly; shifty: a furtive manner.

So, now it's ok for LE to shoot someone for just looking sly or shifty???

firtive or furtive?

I won't predict how any pages it'll go, but I bet it'll only stay on topic for two.

Firtive movement in the context i used it, and the general context used in self defense cases is a movement reasonably consistent with going for a weapon and not reasonably consistent with anything else under the circumstances


Boy you sure get butt hurt when you get your azz handed to you in an argument

It's already pointless, and the OP can't even spell the word, so that takes away all credibility for further intellectual discussion

Then why couldn't I find your definition in an online dictionary anywhere?

LOL....You missed your period in the sentence about his misspelling.

Don't worry, I got your six bro!

Maybe because you can't spell the word?

http://defenduniversity.blogspot.com/2006/10/twarting-furtive-movement.html

Twarting is fun.

I had unanimous consent to revise and extend my remarks, so I left it open to allow for that eventuality.

Who is going to go to the Superbowl this year?

Although Massad Ayoob is very good, he doesn't qualify as a dictionary...

And yes, it's on secret that my spelling sux...

I had reasonable and articulatable suspicion that the spelling on this thread would not be too good!

I've read to many police reports to think otherwise


Mike

Just thank gawd they weren't written in a Doctors handwriting....

Any guess what date the next measurable snow fall in Texas?

Any amount is bound to be taller than Pat

I will be camping in bear country. Will my 22 K-hornet over penetrate a bear?

"Firtive" is just a 'shifty' way of saying 'furtive' ...
The OP is just playing mind games with you - and he's winning!

He didnt win anything. Infact in the other thread he retracted and admitted it was a good shoot

No auch thing as over penetration

Yes, when I'm wrong I will admit it.

The truth matters.

Sometimes how we get there just might be a bit messy.

sometimes I like my BLT with turkey bacon and miracle whip......

Turkey Bacon....That would defiantly be a "good shoot".

Yep, and i admit thses videos are tough to be objective with. And one screening of a bad video does not allow objectivity. I watched that video probably 20 times and then had to read what evidence has been released and match it to the video

I think that "firtive" would be a good word to describe a fart that is slowly released into a cushioned seat in hopes that it would pass unnoticed.

Until the next person sits down.

That would be "fartive"

I'll attempt an honest, non-sarcastic, totally responsible answer. But I'm not making any promises A.S.



I was recently involved in a little chase. A coworker was cruising a parking lot for a shady motel in a rough part of town and found a car that was stolen in a carjacking. They nabbed the driver and the passenger took off, jumped a fence and hot-footed it out of there.

Luckily, Bluedreax was nearby in his fighter jet and flew over to help.

Two apartment complexes, two streets and four fences later the passenger was just plain tuckered out and gave up.

Now I need you to just make believe with me for a minute, because everything from here out is make believe (the guy really just gave up and sat down with his hands in the air). Let's suppose that Bluedreaux finally catches up with the guy. I know a few things about him already....
1-Either he's the bad guy who violently car jacked some people OR
2-He has no real problems hanging out with violent car jackers
3-He definitely doesn't want to go to jail
4-If you put 1-2-3 together, common sense would indicate that the guy might be willing to be violent to stay out of jail

So I catch up with this guy in a dark parking lot without any backup and nobody really knows exactly where I'm at anyway (because "west.....fence.....streetname....fence didn't do them a whole lot of good in tracking me down). Dude turns to face me and there we are, the running is over so dude is either gonna fight or give up. I tell dude, "Dude, don't move." At that point dude starts reaching in his waistband under his shirt.

This is where "Expressive Of Hidden Motives Or Purposes" comes into play. I don't know what dude's plan is. His motives are hidden. I can see two likely options....give up or fight. When dude starts reaching under his shirt into his waistband he is making a furtive movement. He is expressing to me what his plan is through his actions. That's what makes the movement furtive.....the movement is revealing to me what his plan of action is. He may not be pointing a gun at me, but his actions are revealing to me that he's about to.

So when I say "I shot him because he made a furtive movement", what I mean is "I didn't know what he was going to do. But then his movements revealed to me what his plan was. I was scared to death of his plan because his plan was to shoot me and getting shot is painful and likely to kill me and I don't want to get killed in this dark, lonely parking lot. So I shot him first so none of that would happen."

But for whatever reason cops refuse to talk in normal language and refuse even more to admit that they're scared of something. Personally, I talk and write at work just like I'm talking and writing here. And I'm not afraid of saying that I'm afraid of certain things, because that's what it is and any sane person would be afraid of the same things.

So there it is. When cops say that they shot because of "furtive movements" they mean that they shot because of "movements that expressed a hidden purpose (to kill me)". But for whatever reason they just can't say things in plain English.

BUT you say....what about the cop who shot someone making a "furtive movement" when the person was just reaching for their wallet. That's easy. Those cops are stupid. And it sucks that they're cops and if it were up to me they wouldn't be because those guys are dangerous. I don't have an easy answer for how to get rid of those cops or how to keep them from being cops to begin with. You can't really weed those guys out in the academy because in the academy everyone knows that they're not gonna REALLY get shot. But you put some folks out in the real world on their own and they get real hinky and make stupid decisions. You can't know how some people will act in certain situation until they're in those situations. And then you say, "Oh crap, did you see what Officer JimBob just did?!?!? Let's fire him!" But then it's too late because Officer JimBob already did his stupid thing and everybody on the 24HRCF is already talking about it. But the bottom line is that Officer JimBob made a terrible decision and shouldn't have been a cop to begin with.

I think you accomplished your mission

There's a TV commercial I've see a couple of times with a cop on the witness stand, and a prosecutor giving him a hard time about another cop shooting someone

The cop says. "You have one second to decide how to react; what would you have done?"

The Prosecutor says "Well first I would......."

And the cop interjects: "TIME'S UP"

Not everything is simple and easily determined by anyone not there, no matter what yuo think some video seems to show

I would think that after you told a guy to get his wallet and he reached into his car at least two of your brain cells might signal that he was doing what you told him to do. The SC cop was an ASSHAT and is going to jail for what he did. The cop that shot the guy in Walmart, well maybe he could have told the guy to put it down, but at the same time only a gene cesspool dude picks up a gun and walks around walmart playing with it.

I had a firtive movement, once.

I took a li'l Immodium, & I was A-OK.

Glad to be of service.

FC

I dunno, maybe all them other Cops are illiterate.







(Great post, BTW)

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If the guy hadn't lunged towards the front seat, or had simply SAID that's where his license was, things would have turned out differently

They were both stupid, and they are both paying the price

the guy with the badge and the gun has more responsibility and is paid and trained to make good quick decisions, before you take up that last ounce on the trigger make sure of your target. If your too stupid to do that you need to go to jail and I hope this guy does. His bosses recognized his stupidity, hopefully the courts will as well. From your attitude your probably a policeman, so learn from this stupidity and don't shoot someone with a wallet in their hand.

Which part of "They were BOTH stupid" didn't you understand?

Are you upset because I just rely on the facts instead of trying to spin things to fit an agenda?

Should I just pick the popular side, even if it means ignoring what really happened?

no I rely on the facts that his management used to fire him and the District Attorney used to arrest him and not some internet discussion that involves emotionalism from some possible cop wanna be or cop who should not be a cop due to his inability to stop posting because his posts may be used in a court against him someday. Let it go while your ahead dude.

My thoughts exactly. Y'all have fun with this, I'm out...

LMAO

You seem to be living in the Twilight Zone with all the fantasy you crammed into that post

What happened to relying on just the facts?

with your inability to control your anger or use simple reason you should not be anywhere near a gun. Keep up the good work.

Spot no there.

Once again you create a fantasy to fit your agenda
I'm in no way angry

You are simply delusional if you think I am, which would explain your distorted view of events

But I thought that was only a once thing and if she missed it, it was time for you to be in deep trouble if it's not your significant other.

BD, that was truly elequent. Anyone who doesn't understand needs to stay away from sharp objects and things that go bang.

mike r

Thanks Blue.

Good response, that hopefully will help clear things a little for the members who care enough to try and learn something about the subject.

As for "split second decision", you have to that Walmart tape many times, and reallllly close to understand just how split second that officer's decision was.

Yes, he did wait long enough, he just didn't take any chances by waiting any longer then he had to.

Firtive movement is when one moves in a manner resmbling a conifer. It's actually very dangerous. Ever heard of a widow maker?.....


Seriously though, the recent trooper shooting the guy going for his license/registration. To me it seemed like the trooper was very excited, and the motorist was moving fast, trying to comply.

It went sideways.

The motorist didn't seem to rate getting shot.

The trooper probably isn't cut out for this line of work.

That was a bad shoot. But this discussion originated from the walmart shooting