'I think what is most important is we have a concrete right to secede,' said Ron Paul.
'I think this is the last thing that Rand Paul needs' says Bowsinger

Ron Paul Thinks There Should Be More Secessionist Movements in the U.S.
The former U.S. congressman and perennial presidential candidate tells National Journal that he's "real pleased" with American secessionist groups.
By Rebecca Nelson
September 30, 2014 Secessionists across the world were inspired by Scotland's energetic attempt at independence from the United Kingdom earlier this month. Ron Paul, as it turns out, joined them.

In an essay on his eponymous institution's website Sunday, the former U.S. congressman from Texas wrote that any supporters of freedom should cheer secessionism because it allows for smaller government�a constant mantra for the libertarian and perennial presidential candidate, who didn't previously realize there were more than a handful of secessionist groups in the United States.

"I was real pleased with that, and a bit surprised," Paul told National Journal. "But then, on second thought, you think, 'Why not? Why not more?' "

Fringe groups calling for states and regions to secede from the U.S., such as the Second Vermont Republic and the Alaskan Independence Party, gained more publicity in the weeks leading up to the Scottish referendum. As the out sized federal government continues to encroach on individual rights, Paul said, he thinks there will be a groundswell of these movements.

"It's something that I think is going to grow, because the failure of the federal government is going to get much worse," he said. "When the bankruptcy evolves, and maybe some of these pension funds are confiscated, and the wars never end, and bankruptcy comes forth, people [will say], 'Hey, we're getting a bad deal from this. Why don't we leave?' "

He added: "I think it's inevitable people wanting to leave will be there, and the numbers will grow."

Realistically, though, Paul said he doesn't think any of these groups could actually succeed. Despite the founders' own deep belief in secession�they gained America's independence from Europe, after all�he said the Civil War set the precedent that secession would carry "very, very bad" results.

"By our history, the heavy hand of the federal government would come down," Paul told National Journal. "They'd probably shoot 'em."

In typical fashion, Paul argued that the principle of secession was more important than what could actually happen in reality. It's the threat, he said, that's important to keep the federal government in check.

"I think what is most important is we have a concrete right to secede," Paul said. "Even if we never had any secession, or any state declare independence, we would be so much better off, because there would always be this threat. Once the threat of a state leaving was removed, it was just open-door policy for the federal government to expand itself and run roughshod out over the states because the states couldn't do much."

Given that his son, Sen. Rand Paul, R-Ky., will likely run for president in 2016 with a much better chance of winning than his father ever had, the elder Paul's willingness to share his reasonably radical views seem imprudent, if not unexpected. In an election cycle that has often equated the politics of Ron and Rand, this latest remark is sure to annoy the potential 2016-er's supporters.

For Rand's sake, it's fortunate that Ron didn't express his support for the Texas Nationalist Movement or any other secessionist groups in the U.S. Before he'd back Texan independence, he joked, "I better check out and see who's running Austin before we decide about that."

so you have a problem with folks supporting state independence eh?

Stand by for the train to KOOK-A-MANGA to chime in with a buttload of Harrumphs!

Harumph indeed!

Interposition
Nullification
Secession

1,2,3

This is American resistance to tyranny by the book, Jefferson, Madison, Henry, Adams, the Declaration of Independence, Federalist Papers, Virginia and Kentucky Resolves, Locke, Milton, Sydney, Blackstone, The Huguenots, The Covenanters, Puritans.

A untion of states "pinned together by bayonets" was abhorred even by Yankees at one time.

Ron Paul gets a lot of the theory correct at times. What can actually be accomplished is another story altogether; and I think even Ron Paul admits that openly.

Let us suppose that Rand Paul were to actually get elected President. What could he actually accomplish? When you consider this next upcoming generation is wed to it's idols? He would be very popular in the south but any serious reform would be met with cries of secession from New York City and Boston.

We are a divided people; bitterly divided, but those noble values that motivate southerners are even being expunged from the south via the public schools and media etc.

Doom.

Gloom.

I'm not sure its a good idea. California, minnesota and new york would immediately join the soviet union.

Tell me where this starts to get beyond your ability to comprehend.

I'm guessing that you're totally lost just after the word "when".

IN CONGRESS, July 4, 1776.

The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America,

When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government,

Keep reading this part until it makes sense to you.

If it never does, stick a sock in your face and shut the fug up, for cryin' out loud.

That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it

Secession is the only answer. Federalism can't be fixed.

50 brand new third-world nations sounds like an outstanding idea.

Hey, why not free the slaves from the democrats, and we'll have the moral high ground

You can find lots of support for your big government ideology at Democratic Underground.

It's plumb fulla commies.

Ain't that the truth.

Nullification

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g7hYg561pfA

In all seriousness... Why would independence of an individual state result in 3rd world conditions? West VA would be able to start mining again and selling coal again. That would greatly improve the current state of unemployment. Alaska could clean up the ecological nightmare of federal waste/pollution up north that the feds refuse to take responsibiltiy for. Iowa would still grow corn and be able to sell it to anybody they pleased.

None of the people would vanish. None of the recourses would go away. Just the tyranny of a centralized fiat scam system and endless fruitless foreign entanglements that drain our best young men down a sewer of blood.

Do you seriously believe that our centralized federal tyranny is a source of prosperity and civilization?

HA!!!!!!!

Got me laughing out loud on that one!

And that's not a good idea, how?

HA!

Come to think of it... seems like they already joined! If we all broke up we could declare war on them and get it over with! LOL

And in all likely hood states would form regional confederacies and do quite well.

Absolutely.

True, dat....

Told ya...

Not that easy. How many countries would WV and IA have to ship their product through to get it to a seaport How much duty would they charge? How many of the other new countries would underbid them?

We, in the South learned long ago that even though we had the right, we did not have the might. miles

they took Lincoln down with them though

And to think...all I did was relay the message...and add that I don't think Rand needs to be explaining American secession at this point in his campaign...

didn't work out too well for Sara

And to think...all I did was relay the message...and I get a lecture on our Declaration of Independence...from the man who never votes...

No,....you started a thread that says, "Ron Paul Wants to Leave".

That's a lie.

Remember that the next time you feel compelled to start calling people liars,..as you are wan to do.

In an essay on his eponymous institution's website Sunday, the former U.S. congressman from Texas wrote that any supporters of freedom should cheer secessionism because it allows for smaller government�a constant mantra for the libertarian and perennial presidential candidate, who didn't previously realize there were more than a handful of secessionist groups in the United States.

"I was real pleased with that, and a bit surprised," Paul told National Journal. "But then, on second thought, you think, 'Why not? Why not more?' "

Fringe groups calling for states and regions to secede from the U.S., such as the Second Vermont Republic and the Alaskan Independence Party, gained more publicity in the weeks leading up to the Scottish referendum.
As the out sized federal government continues to encroach on individual rights, Paul said, he thinks there will be a groundswell of these movements
.
"It's something that I think is going to grow, because the failure of the federal government is going to get much worse," he said.

When the bankruptcy evolves, and maybe some of these pension funds are confiscated, and the wars never end, and bankruptcy comes forth, people [will say], 'Hey, we're getting a bad deal from this.
Why don't we leave?'

He added: "I think it's inevitable people wanting to leave will be there, and the numbers will grow."

Supporting secession isn't the same as "wanting to leave"

You know it.

I know it.

Get the sock.

Insert it in your face.

Liar.

The two dominant fringe groups in the USA are Republicans and Democrats, lesser ones include Palin Panderers.

Wish I had a dollar for every time I have been beaten severely about the head and shoulders by Ron Paul supporters...for quoting Ron Paul...

So why did Ron use the word �leave� at lease three times in his essay?

�When the bankruptcy evolves, and maybe some of these pension funds are confiscated, and the wars never end, and bankruptcy comes forth, people [will say], 'Hey, we're getting a bad deal from this.
Why don't we leave?'�

He added: "I think it's inevitable people wanting to leave will be there, and the numbers will grow."

"I think what is most important is we have a concrete right to secede," Paul said. "Even if we never had any secession, or any state declare independence, we would be so much better off, because there would always be this threat. Once the threat of a state leaving was removed, it was just open-door policy for the federal government to expand itself and run roughshod out over the states because the states couldn't do much."

Maybe this is why he said �leave�
Word Origin and History for secede
v. 1702, "to leave one's companions," from Latin secedere "go away, withdraw, separate; rebel, revolt"

You're only making it worse.

Riiight...

I called my old buddy, Putin and he said it was a damn fine idea.

Pretty sure that Hitler would have felt the same way...

If tiny independent countries were so great, why again did the original 13 band together?

Because there is indeed strength in numbers.

But they also believed that any powers not specifically given to the Federal government would be retained by the individual states so that more local customs and opinions would be used to govern on local issues.

What we have now is a far, far cry from what those original 13 signed up for.

Hence, many want to disband, regain the power of local governance and perhaps try again.

You're being paged here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x4476578

Obviously the situation today is different than it was in the late 18th century. We don't have a vast continent populated only by neolithic people who could be (relatively) easily exterminated so we could expand into their territory.

Our natural resources are still vast but not what they once were. People are accustomed to the privileges of a world power and are loathe to give that up, no matter how ruinous it may eventually be.

It's funny how those original 13 states assumed to take their place among the self governing nations of the world even though they knew they were but pipsqueaks compared to the might of the European nations. They knew that if they separated from Great Britain they would be a tiny, independent country. But so great was their thirst for freedom and self determination that they went ahead and did it anyway.

Like any situation, it's not all black or white as so many wish it were - black and white situations are easy to argue against and say "look - one part of your argument is wrong so therefore your ENTIRE argument is wrong".

There would be great difficulties in any union of states smaller than the 48 contiguous we have now. But the fact that so many are seriously considering it is a litmus test in itself of just how badly people chafe under the rule of a far off, indifferent autocracy with an agenda that is often 180 degrees apart from their local needs and wants.

September 19, 2014 � According to a new poll conducted by Reuters/Ipsos, one in four Americans are open to their home state seceding from the union.

From the article:

�The urge to sever ties with Washington cuts across party lines and regions, though Republicans and residents of rural Western states are generally warmer to the idea than Democrats and Northeasterners, according to the poll.

�Anger with President Barack Obama�s handling of issues ranging from healthcare reform to the rise of Islamic State militants drives some of the feeling, with Republican respondents citing dissatisfaction with his administration as coloring their thinking.�

So the poll is really showing that one in four Americans are open to their home state seceding from OBAMA'S union.

its the only one they have to choose from now - doesn't change the message though.

"Now" is the key word and the next election is a month and change away. Pun intended...

we'll see

Sorry, but I take exception to that...this is NOT Obama's Union. He is president, but this ain't his country!! His azz will be gone in two years, then we'll have to deal with the next idiot that the two all wise parties put up.

There is an election coming in a month but there will be no change. Federalism is a flawed system. Remember the quarter. At the end of the flip there will be no change just a quarter.

I haven't really been paying attention to the races so I can't speak to who will win or won't

but what I do see is still alot of outrage directed at the GOP and at Obama, but not so much at the Democrats in general.

Midterms traditionally show a shift in power during bad times but I just don't see it being that big - especially if the GOP factions are mad that the tea party is or isn't represented

Here's the score in Montana as I see it.

For the Senate Daines will probably get the seat. Walsh, who was a hand picked clone of Harry Reid, is out due to plagiarism among other things. Curtis, his replacement, was picked in Democrat convention and is against everything. She is anti-gun, anti-capitalism, anti-men, etc. In other words she is against everything except more socialism.

For the House it's a toss up. Zinke is a Republican establishment pick. Lewis is a Democrat establishment pick. There's not a lot of difference between the two. It really will be a flip of the quarter as to which one gets the seat.

its amazing to me that anyone runs anti-gun

its politically self destructive, even if you are representing a highly urban area.

Remember the quarter???? You still don't get it?
Remember my quarter that was worth $75?
Remember the elections that gave US Obama and a HUGE change of direction in our country?