Citizen's Arrest? - 12/17/14
Just saw this on Foxnews. Some of the commenters have their panties in a wad, and think the family is looking at prison time for performing a citizen's arrest. Yes, or no?
Link
Link
Re: Citizen's Arrest? - 12/17/14
Unless the Sheriff and Prosecutor are real ass holes then no.
Re: Citizen's Arrest? - 12/17/14
looks good
Re: Citizen's Arrest? - 12/17/14
Maybe the Alabama authorities can do something different than us, but LE couldn't make an arrest a week after a burglary here, without warrant, less a citizen. They could be stopped, detained, and identified...but not arrested.
Re: Citizen's Arrest? - 12/17/14
Hope not...
In Nebraska, chasing down and pulling a gun on a burglary suspect would probably get you tossed in jail with felony counts if you did it in Lincoln or Omaha (liberals). Possible that you wouldn't get convicted of a felony, but almost surely convicted of some misdemeanor that removed your 2A rights for life.
Outside of those cities, you'd probably be fine.
Shooting a guy who tried to run away while being held at gunpoint that had committed burglary? Jail time anywhere in the state.
In Nebraska, chasing down and pulling a gun on a burglary suspect would probably get you tossed in jail with felony counts if you did it in Lincoln or Omaha (liberals). Possible that you wouldn't get convicted of a felony, but almost surely convicted of some misdemeanor that removed your 2A rights for life.
Outside of those cities, you'd probably be fine.
Shooting a guy who tried to run away while being held at gunpoint that had committed burglary? Jail time anywhere in the state.
Re: Citizen's Arrest? - 12/17/14
Originally Posted by ltppowell
Maybe the Alabama authorities can do something different than us, but LE couldn't make an arrest a week after a burglary here, without warrant, less a citizen. They could be stopped, detained, and identified...but not arrested.
Same samo here.
Re: Citizen's Arrest? - 12/17/14
Originally Posted by ltppowell
Maybe the Alabama authorities can do something different than us, but LE couldn't make an arrest a week after a burglary here, without warrant, less a citizen. They could be stopped, detained, and identified...but not arrested.
Would the stop and identification by the citizens be enough for probably cause for a search of their car? And when stolen items were found in the car, would that lead to an immediate arrest?
Re: Citizen's Arrest? - 12/17/14
In Texas, you'd be alright doing any of the above, including using deadly force, against somebody who is committing, or just committed a burglary. But not a week later when you see who you think might have done it driving down the street.
Re: Citizen's Arrest? - 12/17/14
Originally Posted by ltppowell
Maybe the Alabama authorities can do something different than us, but LE couldn't make an arrest a week after a burglary here, without warrant, less a citizen. They could be stopped, detained, and identified...but not arrested.
They found stolen items in their possession from another burglary. Would that make a difference for the LEO?
Re: Citizen's Arrest? - 12/17/14
I whipped a citizen's arrest on a couple of druggies who fender - bendered the car in front of me and tried to drive off.
It took the cops 30 minutes to come get them, then I had to go to the Police Station to give a report.
While I was waiting on a detective to take my report, I was watching the security camera monitor and watched the druggies post bail.
I spent more time "in custody" than they did!
Now..... I just mind my own business.
It took the cops 30 minutes to come get them, then I had to go to the Police Station to give a report.
While I was waiting on a detective to take my report, I was watching the security camera monitor and watched the druggies post bail.
I spent more time "in custody" than they did!
Now..... I just mind my own business.
Re: Citizen's Arrest? - 12/17/14
Originally Posted by heavywalker
Originally Posted by ltppowell
Maybe the Alabama authorities can do something different than us, but LE couldn't make an arrest a week after a burglary here, without warrant, less a citizen. They could be stopped, detained, and identified...but not arrested.
They found stolen items in their possession from another burglary. Would that make a difference for the LEO?
Absolutely,"fruits of the crime", however it would only link them to the crime that the items came from. Since the police took them into custody and charged them withthe original crime from a week before, it makes me wonder if warrants had already been issued.
Re: Citizen's Arrest? - 12/17/14
I believe in Utah, the wording is on the order of "occurring or about to occur"
Re: Citizen's Arrest? - 12/17/14
Originally Posted by HilhamHawk
Just saw this on Foxnews. Some of the commenters have their panties in a wad, and think the family is looking at prison time for performing a citizen's arrest. Yes, or no?
Link
Link
If the thieves had been illegal aliens, the Feds would have filed charges on the victims.
REALLY.
Re: Citizen's Arrest? - 12/17/14
Originally Posted by ltppowell
Maybe the Alabama authorities can do something different than us, but LE couldn't make an arrest a week after a burglary here, without warrant, less a citizen. They could be stopped, detained, and identified...but not arrested.
Alabama law on "citizen arrest"
Quote
Section 15-10-7
Arrests by private persons.
(a) A private person may arrest another for any public offense:
(1) Committed in his presence;
(2) Where a felony has been committed, though not in his presence, by the person arrested; or
(3) Where a felony has been committed and he has reasonable cause to believe that the person arrested committed it.
(b) An arrest for felony may be made by a private person on any day and at any time.
(c) A private person must, at the time of the arrest, inform the person to be arrested of the cause thereof, except when such person is in the actual commission of an offense, or arrested on pursuit.
(d) If he is refused admittance, after notice of his intention, and the person to be arrested has committed a felony, he may break open an outer or inner door or window of a dwelling house.
(e) It is the duty of any private person, having arrested another for the commission of any public offense, to take him without unnecessary delay before a judge or magistrate, or to deliver him to some one of the officers specified in Section 15-10-1, who must forthwith take him before a judge or magistrate.
Arrests by private persons.
(a) A private person may arrest another for any public offense:
(1) Committed in his presence;
(2) Where a felony has been committed, though not in his presence, by the person arrested; or
(3) Where a felony has been committed and he has reasonable cause to believe that the person arrested committed it.
(b) An arrest for felony may be made by a private person on any day and at any time.
(c) A private person must, at the time of the arrest, inform the person to be arrested of the cause thereof, except when such person is in the actual commission of an offense, or arrested on pursuit.
(d) If he is refused admittance, after notice of his intention, and the person to be arrested has committed a felony, he may break open an outer or inner door or window of a dwelling house.
(e) It is the duty of any private person, having arrested another for the commission of any public offense, to take him without unnecessary delay before a judge or magistrate, or to deliver him to some one of the officers specified in Section 15-10-1, who must forthwith take him before a judge or magistrate.
Re: Citizen's Arrest? - 12/17/14
There won't be any prosecution of this family for anything.
Re: Citizen's Arrest? - 12/17/14
Good
Re: Citizen's Arrest? - 12/17/14
You are going to start seeing vigilante justice more and more and lo and behold any police who get in the way. The people have had enough.
Re: Citizen's Arrest? - 12/17/14
Originally Posted by derby_dude
You are going to start seeing vigilante justice more and more and lo and behold any police who get in the way. The people have had enough.
Re: Citizen's Arrest? - 12/17/14
Originally Posted by derby_dude
You are going to start seeing vigilante justice more and more and lo and behold any police who get in the way. The people have had enough.
I think people should be responsible for their own protection of life, limb and property. I have no problem with people doing as this family did either. True "vigilante justice" though, would involve also playing judge jury and executioner without due process. THAT I would have a problem with.
Re: Citizen's Arrest? - 12/17/14
Originally Posted by .280Rem
There won't be any prosecution of this family for anything.
I wouldn't think so. Can an arrest be made in Alabama for crimes that occurred in the past? (In this case, a week.),without warrant? Is this considered some type of "fresh pusuit" deal?
Re: Citizen's Arrest? - 12/17/14
Originally Posted by ltppowell
Originally Posted by .280Rem
There won't be any prosecution of this family for anything.
I wouldn't think so. Can an arrest be made in Alabama for crimes that occurred in the past? (In this case, a week.),without warrant? Is this considered some type of "fresh pusuit" deal?
In theory, yes you could. In practice, if you know who did it, then a warrant should have been issued within a week's time.
Quote
Section 15-10-3
Arrest without warrant - Generally; definitions; written report.
(a) An officer may arrest a person without a warrant, on any day and at any time in any of the following instances:
(1) If a public offense has been committed or a breach of the peace threatened in the presence of the officer.
(2) When a felony has been committed, though not in the presence of the officer, by the person arrested.
(3) When a felony has been committed and the officer has reasonable cause to believe that the person arrested committed the felony.
(4) When the officer has reasonable cause to believe that the person arrested has committed a felony, although it may afterwards appear that a felony had not in fact been committed.
(5) When a charge has been made, upon reasonable cause, that the person arrested has committed a felony.
(6) When the officer has actual knowledge that a warrant for the person's arrest for the commission of a felony or misdemeanor has been issued, provided the warrant was issued in accordance with this chapter. However, upon request the officer shall show the warrant to the arrested person as soon as possible. If the officer does not have the warrant in his or her possession at the time of arrest the officer shall inform the defendant of the offense charged and of the fact that a warrant has been issued.
(7) When the officer has reasonable cause to believe that a felony or misdemeanor has been committed by the person arrested in violation of a protection order issued by a court of competent jurisdiction.
(8) When an offense involves domestic violence as defined by this section, and the arrest is based on probable cause, regardless of whether the offense is a felony or misdemeanor.
(b) For the purpose of this section, the following terms have the following meanings:
(1) ABUSE. Any offense under Sections 13A-6-60 to 13A-6-70, inclusive, or under Sections 26-15-1 to 26-15-4, inclusive.
(2) ASSAULT. Any offense under Sections 13A-6-20 to 13A-6-25, inclusive.
(3) FAMILY, HOUSEHOLD, OR DATING OR ENGAGEMENT RELATIONSHIP MEMBERS. Includes a spouse, former spouse, parent, child, or any other person related by marriage or common law marriage, a person with whom the victim has a child in common, a present or former household member, or a person who has or had a dating or engagement relationship.
(4) DOMESTIC VIOLENCE. Any incident resulting in the abuse, assault, harassment, or the attempt or threats thereof, between family, household, or dating or engagement relationship members.
(5) HARASSMENT. Any offense under Section 13A-11-8.
(c) When a law enforcement officer investigates an allegation of domestic violence, whether or not an arrest is made, the officer shall make a written report of the alleged incident, including a statement of the complaint, and the disposition of the case.
(Code 1852, �445; Code 1867, �3994; Code 1876, �4664; Code 1886, �4262; Code 1896, �5211; Code 1907, �6269; Code 1923, �3263; Code 1940, T. 15, �154; Acts 1989, No. 89-857, p. 1710, �2; Acts 1995, No. 95-534, p. 1081, �1; Act 2000-266, p. 411, �8.)
Arrest without warrant - Generally; definitions; written report.
(a) An officer may arrest a person without a warrant, on any day and at any time in any of the following instances:
(1) If a public offense has been committed or a breach of the peace threatened in the presence of the officer.
(2) When a felony has been committed, though not in the presence of the officer, by the person arrested.
(3) When a felony has been committed and the officer has reasonable cause to believe that the person arrested committed the felony.
(4) When the officer has reasonable cause to believe that the person arrested has committed a felony, although it may afterwards appear that a felony had not in fact been committed.
(5) When a charge has been made, upon reasonable cause, that the person arrested has committed a felony.
(6) When the officer has actual knowledge that a warrant for the person's arrest for the commission of a felony or misdemeanor has been issued, provided the warrant was issued in accordance with this chapter. However, upon request the officer shall show the warrant to the arrested person as soon as possible. If the officer does not have the warrant in his or her possession at the time of arrest the officer shall inform the defendant of the offense charged and of the fact that a warrant has been issued.
(7) When the officer has reasonable cause to believe that a felony or misdemeanor has been committed by the person arrested in violation of a protection order issued by a court of competent jurisdiction.
(8) When an offense involves domestic violence as defined by this section, and the arrest is based on probable cause, regardless of whether the offense is a felony or misdemeanor.
(b) For the purpose of this section, the following terms have the following meanings:
(1) ABUSE. Any offense under Sections 13A-6-60 to 13A-6-70, inclusive, or under Sections 26-15-1 to 26-15-4, inclusive.
(2) ASSAULT. Any offense under Sections 13A-6-20 to 13A-6-25, inclusive.
(3) FAMILY, HOUSEHOLD, OR DATING OR ENGAGEMENT RELATIONSHIP MEMBERS. Includes a spouse, former spouse, parent, child, or any other person related by marriage or common law marriage, a person with whom the victim has a child in common, a present or former household member, or a person who has or had a dating or engagement relationship.
(4) DOMESTIC VIOLENCE. Any incident resulting in the abuse, assault, harassment, or the attempt or threats thereof, between family, household, or dating or engagement relationship members.
(5) HARASSMENT. Any offense under Section 13A-11-8.
(c) When a law enforcement officer investigates an allegation of domestic violence, whether or not an arrest is made, the officer shall make a written report of the alleged incident, including a statement of the complaint, and the disposition of the case.
(Code 1852, �445; Code 1867, �3994; Code 1876, �4664; Code 1886, �4262; Code 1896, �5211; Code 1907, �6269; Code 1923, �3263; Code 1940, T. 15, �154; Acts 1989, No. 89-857, p. 1710, �2; Acts 1995, No. 95-534, p. 1081, �1; Act 2000-266, p. 411, �8.)
Re: Citizen's Arrest? - 12/17/14
I guess I'm just a slow learner, but here we have a case in which some poor folks get lost, stop to ask for directions and, find that the home owners left a couple of TV sets and presents out as gifts for them. And then, the homeowners change their minds, have the nerve to accuse them of stealing the stuff and then holding the poor lost folks at gunpoint.
What is this world coming to?
What is this world coming to?
Re: Citizen's Arrest? - 12/17/14
Cool. I realize the family did nothing wrong, but was a little surprised to see the police continued with the arrest. We wouldn't, unless there was more involved that I don't know about.
Re: Citizen's Arrest? - 12/17/14
Originally Posted by ltppowell
Cool. I realize the family did nothing wrong, but was a little surprised to see the police continued with the arrest. We wouldn't, unless there was more involved that I don't know about.
The code sections I cited covers exactly this situation for both citizens and officers. The police have the victims making an ID of the people who committed a felony, and holding them. In an abundance of caution, for what reason I'm not really sure since you'd be covered under the statute, some agencies here might choose to take the information of the people the citizens detained, release them, and go through a complete investigation THEN make an arrest. All that would serve to do is muddy the case up in my opinion. In the alternative though, the citizens could complete the arrest and have the duty to take the arrestees before a judge or magistrate, which leaves them vulnerable to getting hurt, or having to hurt one of the arrestees for resisting, which in turn, would leave the police vulnerable to lawsuit for failing to act within the scope of their lawful duty, and failure to protect the citizens and/or arrestees.
Re: Citizen's Arrest? - 12/17/14
In Texas, the moment pursuit of the offenders is terminated immediately after the the ofense, an arrest can no longer be made, without warrant. Good for you guys!
Re: Citizen's Arrest? - 12/17/14
Re: Citizen's Arrest? - 12/17/14
That made my day. Good guy's and gal's win for a change.
Re: Citizen's Arrest? - 12/17/14
Originally Posted by ltppowell
Cool. I realize the family did nothing wrong, but was a little surprised to see the police continued with the arrest. We wouldn't, unless there was more involved that I don't know about.
Huh? The crime was video taped.
Re: Citizen's Arrest? - 12/17/14
Originally Posted by okok
Originally Posted by ltppowell
Cool. I realize the family did nothing wrong, but was a little surprised to see the police continued with the arrest. We wouldn't, unless there was more involved that I don't know about.
Huh? The crime was video taped.
Yeah...but a week earlier. What if it had been ten days? Ten years? At some point you have to get a warrant (at least in Texas) to arrest somebody.
Re: Citizen's Arrest? - 12/17/14
No detaining them for 48 hours while a warrant is sworn out?
Re: Citizen's Arrest? - 12/17/14
Originally Posted by ltppowell
Originally Posted by okok
Originally Posted by ltppowell
Cool. I realize the family did nothing wrong, but was a little surprised to see the police continued with the arrest. We wouldn't, unless there was more involved that I don't know about.
Huh? The crime was video taped.
Yeah...but a week earlier. What if it had been ten days? Ten years? At some point you have to get a warrant (at least in Texas) to arrest somebody.
Ok, I see what you're saying.
Re: Citizen's Arrest? - 12/17/14
The problem with any citizen arrest is what happens if the suspect calls your bluff. If I see some 18 year old stealing gas on my farm and hold him at gun point while we wait for the sheriff, then all good. But what happens when he tries to get past you and says what are you gonna do about it? Then you are thrust into a murky area of law. Can you really shoot him to stop a fleeing felon? Can you claim you feared for your life since you had a right to park your car in the way and had no duty to retreat? Even if you meet the statutory language, once the local news paints you as a person with an "arsenal", do you think the DA will let you off the hook?
I've thought about holding trespassers at gunpoint on our ranch, but the fear of unintended consequences holds me back.
I've thought about holding trespassers at gunpoint on our ranch, but the fear of unintended consequences holds me back.
Re: Citizen's Arrest? - 12/17/14
S.S.S Don't call the PoPo. 
Re: Citizen's Arrest? - 12/17/14
Originally Posted by conrad101st
The problem with any citizen arrest is what happens if the suspect calls your bluff. If I see some 18 year old stealing gas on my farm and hold him at gun point while we wait for the sheriff, then all good. But what happens when he tries to get past you and says what are you gonna do about it? Then you are thrust into a murky area of law. Can you really shoot him to stop a fleeing felon? Can you claim you feared for your life since you had a right to park your car in the way and had no duty to retreat? Even if you meet the statutory language, once the local news paints you as a person with an "arsenal", do you think the DA will let you off the hook?
I've thought about holding trespassers at gunpoint on our ranch, but the fear of unintended consequences holds me back.
I've thought about holding trespassers at gunpoint on our ranch, but the fear of unintended consequences holds me back.
I agree. From what I've read even if the legal system agrees it was a justifiable shooting, the cost to you can be high in terms of legal costs and possible civil suit. If you can ID the trespasser or bugler to the police, it might be better to not hold him at gunpoint.