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Posted By: eh76 Common Sense is gone! - 02/18/15
http://legalinsurrection.com/2015/02/video-retired-teacher-faces-10-years-for-flintlock-possession/



When a 72-year-old retired school teacher faces a 10 year felony sentence (a likely life sentence) for possession of an unloaded 18th century flintlock pistol, one knows immediately that we can only be talking about a handful of states in which such a travesty can happen. In this case, not surprisingly, it’s the “Garden State” of New Jersey. (h/t Sebastian over at the Shall Not Be Questioned blog.)

Gordon Van Gilder, who taught in the New Jersey school system for 34 years, is a collector of 18th century memorabilia. He acquired a genuine antique flintlock pistol from that era, and had it unloaded and wrapped in a cloth in his glove compartment when he was pulled over for an alleged minor traffic violation.

Van Gilder consented to a requested search of his vehicle, and when asked by the officer if there was anything in the car the officer should be worried about, Van Gilder informed him about the flintlock in the glove box. Although not arrested that day, the next morning several patrol cars woke him at his home and placed him under arrest.

New Jersey’s draconian gun laws explicitly include antique firearms such as this 300-year-old pistol. Indeed, possession of a slingshot is a felony under New Jersey law.

Van Gilder is represented by Evan Nappen, a well-known attorney specializing in gun law cases, and thus is as well-represented as could be hoped for in this case. It was Nappen who successfully represented Philadelphia nurse Shaneen Allen when she was charged with unlawful possession of her PA-licensed handgun in New Jersey. The mother of two small children was ultimately permitted to enter pre-trial intervention rather than be subject to trial and New Jersey’s mandatory minimum sentence of 3 1/2 to 5 years imprisonment. That outcome, however, took direct intervention by the state Attorney General, likely at the prodding of the presidential-aspirant Governor Chris Christie.

(We covered the Allen story here PA Nurse Arrested on Gun Charges Given Reprieve and here The Memo that let Shaneen Allen — and Chris Christie’s political future — off the hook.)

Van Gilder will be fortunate indeed if Nappen can win him a similar arrangement. Even a plea agreement that avoids jail time but convicts Van Gilder of a felony would likely jeopardize the teacher’s pension he spent 34 years earning.

As Van Gilder states in the video above–”Avoid New Jersey. Don’t come here.” And as Nappen notes, twice as many families are currently leaving New Jersey as are arriving in the state. New Jersey’s population loss relative to other states is also evident in its loss of a House seat following the 2010 census. Other northeastern extremist gun control states have similarly lost House seats in recent years, with New York losing two seats and Massachusetts losing one seat.

–-Andrew, @LawSelfDefense
Posted By: Raeford Re: Common Sense is gone! - 02/18/15
"As Van Gilder states in the video above–”Avoid New Jersey. Don’t come here.” And as Nappen notes, twice as many families are currently leaving New Jersey as are arriving in the state."

There you go.
Posted By: ringworm Re: Common Sense is gone! - 02/18/15
He should move to Texas and fight extradition as if NJ was a foreign country.
Posted By: CrimsonTide Re: Common Sense is gone! - 02/18/15
If I had a brother in Hell and another in New Jersey, I'd do my best to get the one out of NJ first.
Posted By: steve4102 Re: Common Sense is gone! - 02/18/15
Never consent to a road side search, never!

...and shut the hell up!
Posted By: Redneck Re: Common Sense is gone! - 02/19/15
Originally Posted by steve4102
Never consent to a road side search, never!

...and shut the hell up!
THAT!!!!
Posted By: bbassi Re: Common Sense is gone! - 02/19/15
You know what we say in NY?

We may suck, but we aren't NJ!

grin
Posted By: steve4102 Re: Common Sense is gone! - 02/21/15
Apparently our retired teacher was out looking to buy Illegal Drugs.

http://www.thedailyjournal.com/stor...-case-trying-buy-drugs-sheriff/23749005/
Posted By: Rock Chuck Re: Common Sense is gone! - 02/21/15
Could be but they haven't charged him with that. So far, his only 'crime' was the possession of a legitimate antique.
Posted By: gunner500 Re: Common Sense is gone! - 02/21/15
Originally Posted by CrimsonTide
If I had a brother in Hell and another in New Jersey, I'd do my best to get the one out of NJ first.


Yes, all brought to you by "crispy kreme cris christy" the same commie lard ass'd bucket of chitt that some of the dummies here would vote for potus. crazy
Posted By: Colorado1135 Re: Common Sense is gone! - 02/21/15
oh, so then it's ok.......

why didn't they bring him up on drug charges then?

me thinks you've lived in MN for too long.
Posted By: Crockettnj Re: Common Sense is gone! - 02/21/15
Originally Posted by gunner500
Originally Posted by CrimsonTide
If I had a brother in Hell and another in New Jersey, I'd do my best to get the one out of NJ first.


Yes, all brought to you by "crispy kreme cris christy" the same commie lard ass'd bucket of chitt that some of the dummies here would vote for potus. crazy
none of this was brought to us by the ahole Christi.
Posted By: seal_billy Re: Common Sense is gone! - 02/21/15
Originally Posted by CrimsonTide
If I had a brother in Hell and another in New Jersey, I'd do my best to get the one out of NJ first.


lmao, NJ SUCKS INDEED. Good thing is the people that are leaving there are smarter than the people staying so the migrants aren't going to try and screw with our pistol packing culture.
Posted By: Rock Chuck Re: Common Sense is gone! - 02/21/15
If this goes viral, it could seriously hurt Christi's chances in '16.
Posted By: steve4102 Re: Common Sense is gone! - 02/21/15
Originally Posted by gunner500
Originally Posted by CrimsonTide
If I had a brother in Hell and another in New Jersey, I'd do my best to get the one out of NJ first.


Yes, all brought to you by "crispy kreme cris christy" the same commie lard ass'd bucket of chitt that some of the dummies here would vote for potus. crazy


You have absolutely NO idea what the hell you are talking about.

Van Guilder was arrested and charged because of the Mandatory Sentencing requirements of the Graves Act.

The Graves Act was signed into law by Democrat Governor Corzine long before Christie became Governor.

Now, your next stupid comment will mostly likely be something like,
"well Christie is the chief law enforcement officer in the State and should step up to the plate and pardon this guy".

Problem is none of it is true or even possible. Unless you want Christie to strong arm the AG and prosecutor into dropping the charges akin to Obama and Holder demanding the charges against their Black Panther buddies be dropped.

Christie had nothing to do with this Law and his hands are tied. Now if Van Guilder is convicted, Christie could issue a Pardon, but not before.
Posted By: gunner500 Re: Common Sense is gone! - 02/21/15
Crispies in charge here ladies and has been for a while, he could have repealed this, no?
Posted By: steve4102 Re: Common Sense is gone! - 02/21/15
Originally Posted by Colorado1135
oh, so then it's ok.......

why didn't they bring him up on drug charges then?

me thinks you've lived in MN for too long.


Post-em as I find-em. Do what you wish with this information.

MILLVILLE -- The car stop that led to a 72-year-old former teacher to being charged with possession of a 300-year-old pistol was conducted because his vehicle was allegedly "acting suspiciously in a known drug area," according to Cumberland County Sheriff Robert Austino.

The sheriff said Gordon Van Gilder was a passenger in his vehicle, which was pulled over on Nov. 19, on 2nd Street. Van Gilder allegedly admitted that the reason they were in the area was to purchase drugs, according to Austino.

"This is not just a case of the police picking on an elderly gun collector," he said.


http://www.nj.com/cumberland/index....vity_in_drug_area_led_to_antique_gu.html
Posted By: steve4102 Re: Common Sense is gone! - 02/21/15
Originally Posted by gunner500
Crispies in charge here ladies and has been for a while, he could have repealed this, no?


No!

Another stupid comment.

The Governor of a State has NO power to "repeal" laws.

This action would have to go through Congress, then be signed by a Governor. Governors are NOT dictators and can NOT arbitrarily repeal laws.

Time to remove head from ass!
Posted By: EvilTwin Re: Common Sense is gone! - 02/21/15
No he couldn't Gunner. The NJ legislature is a bunch of extreme lib demorats. Worse than NY by a good bit.
Posted By: gunner500 Re: Common Sense is gone! - 02/21/15
You sit at the head of the table, your responsible, it's on you, on your watch, get rid of it, can you icebox liberal girls tell me how they take away gun rights then, huh?
Posted By: Crockettnj Re: Common Sense is gone! - 02/21/15
Originally Posted by bbassi
You know what we say in NY?

We may suck, but we aren't NJ!

grin


;-)
Posted By: Crockettnj Re: Common Sense is gone! - 02/21/15
Originally Posted by Rock Chuck
If this goes viral, it could seriously hurt Christi's chances in '16.


I am assuming that was tongue in cheek. CC 's a long shot at best. Liz Warren will be pres before CC.
Posted By: steve4102 Re: Common Sense is gone! - 02/21/15
Originally Posted by gunner500
You sit at the head of the table, your responsible, it's on you, on your watch, get rid of it, can you icebox liberal girls tell me how they take away gun rights then, huh?


Boy, they just keep coming don't they, stupid uneducated opinion after stupid uneducated opinion.

The head of the table was Corzine, he signed the Graves Act and Christie had nothing to do with it. ...and there is nothing he can do about it until the NJ legislators put something on his desk to sign.
Posted By: Crockettnj Re: Common Sense is gone! - 02/21/15
Originally Posted by EvilTwin
No he couldn't Gunner. The NJ legislature is a bunch of extreme lib demorats. Worse than NY by a good bit.


+1 Truth.
Posted By: elkhunternm Re: Common Sense is gone! - 02/21/15
Originally Posted by EvilTwin
No he couldn't Gunner. The NJ legislature is a bunch of extreme lib demorats. Worse than NY by a good bit.
The NJ legislature is really that bad?
Posted By: gunner500 Re: Common Sense is gone! - 02/21/15
BS, he could ax it if he wanted, there are ways, where did the hi-cap magazines and certain weaponry go then, you and jersey may need to cut me a bit of slack on northern repressed people and their commie politics, you see, I live in the free state of Oklahoma, I don't have to act free on the net.
Posted By: EvilTwin Re: Common Sense is gone! - 02/21/15
First, the NJ legislature IS that bad. Second, believe it or not Gunner, Christie actually vetoed a measure to limit magazine capacity in NJ. Surprised me too. Fairly recently too.
Posted By: HilhamHawk Re: Common Sense is gone! - 02/21/15
Originally Posted by steve4102
Apparently our retired teacher was out looking to buy Illegal Drugs.

http://www.thedailyjournal.com/stor...-case-trying-buy-drugs-sheriff/23749005/


If true, then you can bet the bank that they would have charged him with it.
Posted By: steve4102 Re: Common Sense is gone! - 02/21/15
Originally Posted by gunner500
BS, he could ax it if he wanted, there are ways, where did the hi-cap magazines and certain weaponry go then, you and jersey may need to cut me a bit of slack on northern repressed people and their commie politics, you see, I live in the free state of Oklahoma, I don't have to act free on the net.


Now you are going Full Retard.

Please tell us OH Civics Professor, what Ax could Christie "Legally" do today, now right at this moment to get this guy out of his hot water bath?

Be specific now, after all you are and expert.
Posted By: elkhunternm Re: Common Sense is gone! - 02/21/15
Then the people who put them in there are idiots of the first order. crazy
Posted By: rockinbbar Re: Common Sense is gone! - 02/21/15
I think the point of this whole thing is to scrutinize the silly, gun control crazy law that he was arrested for. If this guy can have felony charges brought for possession of something that isn't even legally considered a "firearm", then the law needs to be challenged and repealed.

No matter what or who the "politics" of the situation are, the law is contrary to the 2nd Amendment.

That's where the focus ought to be...
Posted By: steve4102 Re: Common Sense is gone! - 02/21/15
Originally Posted by HilhamHawk
Originally Posted by steve4102
Apparently our retired teacher was out looking to buy Illegal Drugs.

http://www.thedailyjournal.com/stor...-case-trying-buy-drugs-sheriff/23749005/


If true, then you can bet the bank that they would have charged him with it.


Is it a "crime" to go looking to buy drugs?

If he failed in his attempt to purchase, is there something he can be charged with?

Posted By: gunner500 Re: Common Sense is gone! - 02/21/15
Originally Posted by steve4102
Originally Posted by gunner500
BS, he could ax it if he wanted, there are ways, where did the hi-cap magazines and certain weaponry go then, you and jersey may need to cut me a bit of slack on northern repressed people and their commie politics, you see, I live in the free state of Oklahoma, I don't have to act free on the net.


Now you are going Full Retard.

Please tell us OH Civics Professor, what Ax could Christie "Legally" do today, now right at this moment to get this guy out of his hot water bath?

Be specific now, after all you are and expert.


Your the expert here kepler, if politicians can do all the illegal things they do you want me to believe they cant find a way to repeal a stupid gun law?
Posted By: gunner500 Re: Common Sense is gone! - 02/21/15
Originally Posted by EvilTwin
First, the NJ legislature IS that bad. Second, believe it or not Gunner, Christie actually vetoed a measure to limit magazine capacity in NJ. Surprised me too. Fairly recently too.


That's good news, maybe he's starting to drop a sack of nuts.
Posted By: gunner500 Re: Common Sense is gone! - 02/21/15
Originally Posted by steve4102
Originally Posted by gunner500
You sit at the head of the table, your responsible, it's on you, on your watch, get rid of it, can you icebox liberal girls tell me how they take away gun rights then, huh?


Boy, they just keep coming don't they, stupid uneducated opinion after stupid uneducated opinion.

The head of the table was Corzine, he signed the Graves Act and Christie had nothing to do with it. ...and there is nothing he can do about it until the NJ legislators put something on his desk to sign.



Uh BTW, an uneducated opinion is called ignorance, not stupid, there mary.
Posted By: Crockettnj Re: Common Sense is gone! - 02/21/15
Originally Posted by elkhunternm
Then the people who put them in there are idiots of the first order. crazy


Bingo.

Thats the way it works. First there's a couple idiots. Then more. Now too many.

They are largely concentrated in the couple urban pockets. Sure there are some hippies in the NW, and some old school farming dems in the south, and some soccer-mom libs in the suburbs, but the majority of the problem is the population of hand-out idiots in the urban centers just overwhelms the rest.

Posted By: steve4102 Re: Common Sense is gone! - 02/21/15
Originally Posted by rockinbbar
I think the point of this whole thing is to scrutinize the silly, gun control crazy law that he was arrested for. If this guy can have felony charges brought for possession of something that isn't even legally considered a "firearm", then the law needs to be challenged and repealed.

No matter what or who the "politics" of the situation are, the law is contrary to the 2nd Amendment.

That's where the focus ought to be...


That "Antique" is indeed considered a "Firearm" under NJ law.

Quote
b. Handguns. (1) Any person who knowingly has in his possession any handgun, including any antique handgun, without first having obtained a permit to carry the same as provided in N.J.S.2C:58-4, is guilty of a crime of the second degree. (2) If the handgun is in the nature of an air gun, spring gun or pistol or other weapon of a similar nature in which the propelling force is a spring, elastic band, carbon dioxide, compressed or other gas or vapor, air or compressed air, or is ignited by compressed air, and ejecting a bullet or missile smaller than three-eighths of an inch in diameter, with sufficient force to injure a person it is a crime of the third degree.


http://law.onecle.com/new-jersey/2c-the-new-jersey-code-of-criminal-justice/39-5.html
Posted By: steve4102 Re: Common Sense is gone! - 02/21/15
Originally Posted by gunner500
Originally Posted by steve4102
Originally Posted by gunner500
BS, he could ax it if he wanted, there are ways, where did the hi-cap magazines and certain weaponry go then, you and jersey may need to cut me a bit of slack on northern repressed people and their commie politics, you see, I live in the free state of Oklahoma, I don't have to act free on the net.


Now you are going Full Retard.

Please tell us OH Civics Professor, what Ax could Christie "Legally" do today, now right at this moment to get this guy out of his hot water bath?

Be specific now, after all you are and expert.


Your the expert here kepler, if politicians can do all the illegal things they do you want me to believe they cant find a way to repeal a stupid gun law?


No Not Legally, double "full retard".

Do you use that brain to vote, God help us.
Posted By: steve4102 Re: Common Sense is gone! - 02/21/15
Originally Posted by gunner500
Originally Posted by steve4102
Originally Posted by gunner500
You sit at the head of the table, your responsible, it's on you, on your watch, get rid of it, can you icebox liberal girls tell me how they take away gun rights then, huh?


Boy, they just keep coming don't they, stupid uneducated opinion after stupid uneducated opinion.

The head of the table was Corzine, he signed the Graves Act and Christie had nothing to do with it. ...and there is nothing he can do about it until the NJ legislators put something on his desk to sign.



Uh BTW, an uneducated opinion is called ignorance, not stupid, there mary.


"he acted in ignorance of basic procedures"
synonyms: incomprehension of, unawareness of, unconsciousness of, unfamiliarity with, inexperience with, lack of knowledge about, lack of information about.


Ignorance is unaware, stupid is aware but to lack the IQ to understand. Your comment are flat out stupid and show lack of intelligence.
Posted By: gunner500 Re: Common Sense is gone! - 02/21/15
No how are outsiders ever gonna help you with that commie chithole you call home with you being all rude like that?
Posted By: steve4102 Re: Common Sense is gone! - 02/21/15
Originally Posted by gunner500
No how are outsiders ever gonna help you with that commie chithole you call home with you being all rude like that?


Solve the problem the best we can "legally" by understanding the Laws, understanding what we can and cannot do to "Fix" a bad situation, understanding who is to blame and who can legally help "fix" the problem.

Unlike you puking out utter BS and uneducated stupid Chit.
Posted By: gunner500 Re: Common Sense is gone! - 02/21/15
Have a good day mary.
Posted By: steve4102 Re: Common Sense is gone! - 02/21/15
Originally Posted by gunner500
Have a good day mary.


You too there Bubba.

[Linked Image]
Posted By: rockinbbar Re: Common Sense is gone! - 02/21/15
Originally Posted by steve4102
That "Antique" is indeed considered a "Firearm" under NJ law.

Quote
b. Handguns. (1) Any person who knowingly has in his possession any handgun, including any antique handgun, without first having obtained a permit to carry the same as provided in N.J.S.2C:58-4, is guilty of a crime of the second degree. (2) If the handgun is in the nature of an air gun, spring gun or pistol or other weapon of a similar nature in which the propelling force is a spring, elastic band, carbon dioxide, compressed or other gas or vapor, air or compressed air, or is ignited by compressed air, and ejecting a bullet or missile smaller than three-eighths of an inch in diameter, with sufficient force to injure a person it is a crime of the third degree.


http://law.onecle.com/new-jersey/2c-the-new-jersey-code-of-criminal-justice/39-5.html


And that's my point. Ignorant shidt for brains laws like this have no place in a free country. It needs to be stricken from the books.
Posted By: HilhamHawk Re: Common Sense is gone! - 02/21/15
Originally Posted by steve4102
Originally Posted by HilhamHawk
Originally Posted by steve4102
Apparently our retired teacher was out looking to buy Illegal Drugs.

http://www.thedailyjournal.com/stor...-case-trying-buy-drugs-sheriff/23749005/


If true, then you can bet the bank that they would have charged him with it.


Is it a "crime" to go looking to buy drugs?

If he failed in his attempt to purchase, is there something he can be charged with?



If you read the link, not only did they claim that he was "looking" for drugs, but they also claim to have found heroin bags and paraphernalia in his vehicle.
Posted By: steve4102 Re: Common Sense is gone! - 02/21/15
Originally Posted by HilhamHawk
Originally Posted by steve4102
Originally Posted by HilhamHawk
Originally Posted by steve4102
Apparently our retired teacher was out looking to buy Illegal Drugs.

http://www.thedailyjournal.com/stor...-case-trying-buy-drugs-sheriff/23749005/


If true, then you can bet the bank that they would have charged him with it.


Is it a "crime" to go looking to buy drugs?

If he failed in his attempt to purchase, is there something he can be charged with?



If you read the link, not only did they claim that he was "looking" for drugs, but they also claim to have found heroin bags and paraphernalia in his vehicle.


Yes they did, and they charged the driver with possession, his drugs, his car. It remains to be seen if the Driver, who Van Guilder threw under the bus, tosses Van Guilder under his own bus and drug charges are filed against Van Guilder as well.
Posted By: HilhamHawk Re: Common Sense is gone! - 02/21/15
Originally Posted by steve4102
Yes they did, and they charged the driver with possession, his drugs, his car. It remains to be seen if the Driver, who Van Guilder threw under the bus, tosses Van Guilder under his own bus and drug charges are filed against Van Guilder as well.


No, they didn't. The driver (Puttergill) was charged with having 2 of his own prescription pills, in his pocket, out of the prescription bottle. No charges were filed against either for the alleged "paraphernalia" or "used heroin bags".
Posted By: steve4102 Re: Common Sense is gone! - 02/21/15
Originally Posted by HilhamHawk
Originally Posted by steve4102
Yes they did, and they charged the driver with possession, his drugs, his car. It remains to be seen if the Driver, who Van Guilder threw under the bus, tosses Van Guilder under his own bus and drug charges are filed against Van Guilder as well.


No, they didn't. The driver (Puttergill) was charged with having 2 of his own prescription pills, in his pocket, out of the prescription bottle. No charges were filed against either for the alleged "paraphernalia" or "used heroin bags".


You may be correct. Here is where I got it from.

Quote
A search allegedly found used heroin bags in the vehicle, according to the sheriff. The driver of the vehicle -- identified as Adam Puttergill, 21, of Maurice River Township -- was allegedly found in possession of drugs and was charged with possession of a controlled dangerous substance, according to Austino.


http://www.nj.com/cumberland/index....vity_in_drug_area_led_to_antique_gu.html
Posted By: Crockettnj Re: Common Sense is gone! - 02/21/15
Originally Posted by HilhamHawk
Originally Posted by steve4102
Yes they did, and they charged the driver with possession, his drugs, his car. It remains to be seen if the Driver, who Van Guilder threw under the bus, tosses Van Guilder under his own bus and drug charges are filed against Van Guilder as well.


No, they didn't. The driver (Puttergill) was charged with having 2 of his own prescription pills, in his pocket, out of the prescription bottle. No charges were filed against either for the alleged "paraphernalia" or "used heroin bags".


They were pretty vague on the type of bags. Could have been sandwich baggies in the back of a messy van, or such. Its incomprehensible that they wouldnt charge him with having drug baggies if he indeed had drug baggies. That sounded like a fishing expedition.

I wasnt there, I dont know. Stupid ass low doesnt mean the driver wasnt doing something wrong (drugs etc), and theres really no way to know for sure so I'll not pick a dog in that fight.

I do like that the idiocy of NJ gun laws in general are getting public attention. Maybe some legislator will get enough phone calls to initiate a change.
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