Canyon High School up in New Braunfels ain't by any stretch of the imagination a "hood" school. November 2013, one 15 year old waits for another outside the door after class and decks him with a two punch combination, only problem is the kid dies on the spot from a torn artery in the neck.
http://www.expressnews.com/news/local/article/Canyon-High-School-death-case-goes-to-jury-6241200.phpCut and dried maybe, except that trial testimony has it that the dead kid was a habitual bully who had been provoking the other kid for some time, calling him a pu$$y and throwing sch$dt at him in class. FWIW Facebook accounts by other students have it that he also ragged on the other kid's recently deceased mom.
Neither kid had been in trouble before.
I will say the teacher in that class shoulda been all over that kid doing the bullying.
How to call this one? I dunno.
If my own kid had been provoking someone (which prior bullying does not seem to have been argued by the prosecution) and got decked for his trouble I'd have no objection, and clearly death weren't the intended result at the time.
Birdwatcher
Problem with a bully, is it takes a bigger one to settle him down. A teacher should be able to do it, but then, if the teacher is bigger and older, he gets blamed.
In 9th grade there was a student who had a bit of a reckless side.
He left the science lab and on his way out the door, he opened a gas burner on the table and let it hiss away.
The science teacher, Mr. Webber, discovered who it was, and came into social studies, walked up to Tommy B, calmly took off Tommy's glasses and set them on the table, and proceeded to slap Tommy a couple of times, once forehand and once backhand. Then he walked out. Never said a word.
Neither did Tommy's parents.
We need to go back to those days.
http://www.ksat.com/content/pns/ksa...stifies-in-canyon-hs-punching-death.htmlThe dead kid was warned to knock it off, or he'd get hit back. He didn't, and he got hit back.
"Murder"? That's ridiculous. Murder requires intent or such depraved indifference to overcome a lack of intent.
A bit more, and the deceased's mother even gives some indications that he was an instigator of this kind of crap.
http://herald-zeitung.com/community_alert/article_f4da25a6-e23c-11e4-b19f-7f76b7befba8.html
A teacher should be able to do it, but then, if the teacher is bigger and older, he gets blamed.
Nope, you gum 'em down, like they walked into deep mud.....
...you bring the offender out to the hallway and warn him, give him detention when he does it again, call his parents, document everything. Write him up, send him to the office if he doesn't quit.
The point of all that is that it becomes a hassle for both him and his parents and his parents get PO'd double on account of their kid is at fault, NOT what yer average 15 year old is wanting. What yer average 15 year-old wants to do is do their thing at school, and then go home and play video games. Having to deal with all this time-consuming crap with Mr. Birdwatcher ain't in the plan.
Birdwatcher
Birdie. You really think detention is a hassle? You've gotta be kidding me
Murder, man slaughter? Seriously?
That is [bleep] up.
I hate the kid died, but the defendant here took a stand that many should, IMO.
Hell, anymore, its the "in thing" to get bullied and not stand up for yourself.
Then you can talk about your feelings and receive favoritism, accolades, and notoriety for being a fragile victim.
Birdie. You really think detention is a hassle? You've gotta be kidding me
Twenty five years in a 'hood school talking here
.......
Ya, surprisingly enough, detention usually is a hassle to a 15 year old who has but little perspective on life.
Doesn't matter how BIG the hassle is, just that its in place, the point being that unacceptable behavior has consequences from day one.
Establish the precedent that you'll react to such things early on and 90% of the problems go away. Just as important, it starts the paperwork trail of recorded offenses that comprises a school record on that kid which can be critical if they eventually stand before a judge for some serious school-related offense.
Even more than the detention, getting the PARENTS involved gets the kid's attention. Next step after a detention or two is in school suspension, wherein parents have to come in and talk. If they are good parents the kid has more to fear from THEM than anything the school can do, but even bad parents hate it when they have to take time out from their day to deal with hassles caused by Junior's bad actions at school.
I'm gonna add too the role of coaches. The kid in this case was on the football team, we had a coach where if one kid was acting like that in some class, all the REST of the football team EXCEPT the offender had to run extra laps.
Kids would BEG you not to tell the coach
Birdwatcher
Murder (Texas)
A person commits an offense if he:
(1) intentionally or knowingly causes the death of an individual;
(2) intends to cause serious bodily injury and commits an act clearly dangerous to human life that causes the death of an individual.
Maybe. The guy that's not dead always has a better line of communication with the media.
But the school gets sued for not keeping the vicious bully safe.
Doesn't ØbamaCare cover exams to make sure you can take a punch?
From the teacher's handbook:
In any dispute between two children, you don't look to identify which child was the aggressor.
You look at which child is the more privileged and had the greater number of advantages starting out in life.
Upon that analysis, you assign the roles of oppressor and oppressed.
Sounds like the Prosecutor's cross-examination of the suspect might have backfired....
The boy put his hand on his head and began to look in his lap as Hearrell directed pointed questions at him. The ADA queried whether the boy punched Davidson as hard as he could, whether he knew he knocked out Davidson and whether he knew the punches caused Davidson’s death.
As he began to cry, the respondent replied “I don’t know” and broke down, leading Judge Charles A Stephens II to give the boy a chance to compose himself by calling a 10 minutes recess.Not mentioned here but at least one other witness for the defense testified as to the bullying behavior of the deceased upon her too.
Obviously, nobody deserves to be dead here but what can seem inconsequential to us adults sure is a big deal to those fifteen year-olds on the scene. Sounds like the deceased had already escalated things to a physical level before class and continued to instigate by making comments and throwing objects during class, that kid who did the punching likely was totally hyped-up with rage by the time class got over.
Again, the teacher shoulda seen it coming, if you're watching at all these things are obvious, one thing your typical high school kid ain't is subtle.
Birdwatcher
From the teacher's handbook:
In any dispute between two children, you don't look to identify which child was the aggressor.
You look at which child is the more privileged and had the greater number of advantages starting out in life.
Upon that analysis, you assign the roles of oppressor and oppressed.
(sorry)
Edited in to add, while I expect that happens, I haven't seen it around here.
Might be significant that when the Judge offered the jury Simple Assault as an option the Prosecution objected and had him overruled.
Based on what I have read I hope the kid walks.
He needs to be tried and/or sentenced as a juvenile.
Lots of kids do stuff that would screw up the rest of their life when they are that age.
If he is institutionalized for a long period for an adult crime, then it is a guarantee that there are 2 lives lost over this incident.
He may have a chance to come out of this and lead a normal life with the right support.
From the teacher's handbook:
In any dispute between two children, you don't look to identify which child was the aggressor.
You look at which child is the more privileged and had the greater number of advantages starting out in life.
Upon that analysis, you assign the roles of oppressor and oppressed.
It's quite obvious you know next to nothing about how most schools work. IOW you're probably a board member or administrator.
The jury comes back with one of the lesser included offenses of manslaughter, criminally negligent homicide, or assault causing bodily injury.
Might be significant that when the Judge offered the jury Simple Assault as an option the Prosecution objected and had him overruled.
Based on what I have read I hope the kid walks.
I hope he walks too..I suspect he will carry the guilt around with him for a long long time and that in itself should be punishment enough here..
I haven't heard any evidence but on the surface I'd call it self defense. How much do you have to put up with before you're entitled to protect yourself?
Establish the precedent that you'll react to such things early on and 90% of the problems go away. Birdwatcher [/quote]
Just like my Drill Sergeants.
Kid probably shouldn't have hit him in the throat after he was unconscious. But, hey...he won't throw another pencil eraser at anybody.
Don't start no shidt, won't be no shidt.. Not guilty.
Was a temp insanity proffer offered up as an affirmative defense?
Did any lesser offenses underneath MS get to the jury?
Does Texas permit the jury to pronounce probation as punishment or is there a mandatory minimum for MS?
Kid probably shouldn't have hit him in the throat after he was unconscious. But, hey...he won't throw another pencil eraser at anybody.
OK, so that's the 1st I seen of that one.
I can understand fighting back, but once their down, the lesson is over.
Thanks for the education.
If the jury buys the asserted defenses, lesser included is my guess. I'm thinking Judge could give probation if the jury is not permitted to preside over a sentencing phase, if found guilty.
wow what a tragedy
hate it for all involved
chit happens, sometimes nasty chit
too bad it doesn't have a happy ending that the bully just got the crap knocked out of him and maybe fired off a few brain cells about messing with even a lil bull, or teasing a dog on a chain
not enough info to make an informed decision for me, but based on what little I've read here I'd say I'm more inclined to believe the kid actually has remorse and wish it hadn't ended this way.
sucks all around for everyone, reminds me of how lucky I am.
Two issues.
A) Being a bully doesn't rate a death sentence.
B) The kid waited for the bully. It wasn't "in the heat of battle".
The bully did rate a beat down.
Did not rate a hit once he was unconscious if that was the case.
A generic fight between 15 year olds is one thing, up to and including waiting outside the door for the kid to come out of a classroom, without a "heat of battle" label being placed on it.
But if he knocked him out, then punched him while he was down, in the throat, he loses my sympathy quick.
Kid probably shouldn't have hit him in the throat after he was unconscious. But, hey...he won't throw another pencil eraser at anybody.
OK, so that's the 1st I seen of that one.
I can understand fighting back, but once their down, the lesson is over.
Kids watch too much MMA and even have a name for hitting someone when they're down. It's called ground striking.
Two issues.
A) Being a bully doesn't rate a death sentence.
B) The kid waited for the bully. It wasn't "in the heat of battle".
A) Maybe not per se. But it should be in the back of a bully's mind that things can indeed get sideways.
B) Bullies can still bully in "fair" settings. The sumbitches ought to fear being ambushed. Phuuk with someone and get cracked good when you don't see it coming. Payback is a bitch.
Maybe. The guy that's not dead always has a better line of communication with the media.
I should have known when I read you're cynicism that there was more to the story than what I had.
Kid probably shouldn't have hit him in the throat after he was unconscious. But, hey...he won't throw another pencil eraser at anybody.
OK, so that's the 1st I seen of that one.
I can understand fighting back, but once their down, the lesson is over.
Kids watch too much MMA and even have a name for hitting someone when they're down. It's called ground striking.
Down and "down and out" are different. If you've put your hands on me and I get you down (not yet out) do you think I should let up?
From the teacher's handbook:
In any dispute between two children, you don't look to identify which child was the aggressor.
You look at which child is the more privileged and had the greater number of advantages starting out in life.
Upon that analysis, you assign the roles of oppressor and oppressed.
It's quite obvious you know next to nothing about how most schools work. IOW you're probably a board member or administrator.
You have got to be about the most humorless man on this forum.
Birdie thought it was funny and he's a school teacher.
Kids don't fight enough these days to know Marquis of Queensbury rules...or any other rules for that matter. I agree that that crap on TV has a deleterious effect.
So if some ass is causing problems, he should be dealt with M of Q?
I'm squarely in the defendant's corner on this one. I seriously doubt he meant to kill the bully but you know he meant to seriously f*ck him up, and that's okay with me. That bully pushed him to the limits of his tolerance and he finally fought back, as kids have done since time immemorial. I'll guarantee a search of this website will find plenty of posts of folks either bragging about the way they beat the crap out of a bully in high school or proud of their kids who did the same thing.
The fact that the bully died is a tragic accident but try as I might, I have little sympathy for the deceased or any bully for that matter. He brought an ass whipping upon himself and if in this one case it turned out badly, he still brought it upon himself.
Kids have straightened things out between themselves with fist fights since there were kids, one in a million times it goes wrong. Were I on the jury I would never in a million years convict the kid of anything beyond simple assault and probably not even that.
Guess the kid is gonna learn the hard way...
Continuing to beat on someone who isn't fighting back is likely to get your aze shot, no matter how justified you were in initiating the beat down.
Kid probably shouldn't have hit him in the throat after he was unconscious. But, hey...he won't throw another pencil eraser at anybody.
Remember that kid the popo tazed to death in my area? Btw, I've looked and never could find out how many times he was hit with the tazer even though the County Attorney promised those results. On that one, most of the cops on here mol called it an unfortunate event and said that it ain't their fault if somebody with a medical condition decides to mix it up. In that case, mixing it up was simply trying to run away.
IOW, sure looks like both cases are accidents if the same standards are applied.
I have no idea if the "bully" really was a bully or not nor if the victim really was a victim. If everything went down the way it was described, it could be argued that the victim of the bully was suffering from battered person syndrome. Thus he was seeking justice but not necessarily at the time of the infraction or being proactive in his self-defense.
As far as when the opponent is down...opponents tend to get back up, so it would seem that despite John Wayne fantasies to the contrary, continuing the fight regardless of the position of the opposition is the wise choice until the opposition is unable or obviously unwilling to continue.
Looks to me like the victim didn't intend to kill the bully thus, no murder. Secondly, it looks like an accident that wouldn't be anticipated in any normal scheme of things thus, no manslaughter.
Both families should sue the school district and the state for not providing a safe learning environment for their children.
One punch homocide. If the kid didn't know before he does now.
Birdie. You really think detention is a hassle? You've gotta be kidding me
Birdie's always good for a laugh.
Travis
One punch homocide. If the kid didn't know before he does now.
The question is not whether this event was homicide, the question is whether there was criminal intent and if there was not, the next question will be whether there was negligence. IMO the criminal intent will be easier to prove since it's pretty hard to prove what a kid should or should not know.
Guess the kid is gonna learn the hard way...
Continuing to beat on someone who isn't fighting back is likely to get your aze shot, no matter how justified you were in initiating the beat down.
Read my other post where I distinguish between down and "down and out."
Guess the kid is gonna learn the hard way...
Continuing to beat on someone who isn't fighting back is likely to get your aze shot, no matter how justified you were in initiating the beat down.
Most people outside a ring don't fight back when they're being beat on. It's when the other person stops beating that they fight back. Any serious fight has one or two immediate goals: To cause the opponent to be unable and/or unwilling to continue the contest.
We had an incident last spring. I was standing …monitoring..the hallway after lunch break was over. I was standing with another staff member, mostly be a presence in the hall, chatting a bit. Kids were moving smoothly and calmly until, all of a sudden, a rather short, stocky kid right in front of us did a 180 and launched a punch into the face of a 6-foot-plus kid who had been walking behind him. There was immediately blood on the floor….and teeth……and the big kid - BOOM, down. The other staff immediately 'herded' the smaller kid away from the scene with no resistance at all. I took the 'victim' who was bleeding like a stuck pig, assisting him to his feet. I assumed I was being a 'security buffer' just in case and I walked in front of him just in case the other kid decided to come after him again. Shortly thereafter I was informed that my charge had tipped over again. He had evidently taken a pretty good shot and had gotten wobbly.
Anyway, after we got him to the bathroom and he had a bit of cold water on his face, he recovered enough to charge back out and throw threats and expletives about. That seemed understandable. But we got him constrained, parents called, LEO informed, etc. The puncher got hauled off - after he had given an 'honest' confession which seemed contrived.
An hour or two later, after reviewing hallway vids, the puncher's story proved to be much more probable. It turned out that the two kids had had a minor squabble in the gym during lunch break. The big kid, a veritable grudge-holder, decided to ambush the smaller -and younger- kid in the hallway and harass him. The video shows him waiting for him, even stalking him when he doesn't appear in a timely manner. When the kid finally shows up, he minds his own business and appears to ignore the bigger kid. The bigger kid is apparently even more annoyed when he cannot get a rise out of the smaller guy as he walks right behind him. (He was apparently 'talking' as he does.) Finally, the big kid reaches out and pokes/pushes the smaller kid in the shoulder. At that point the smaller kid does the 180 and launches a punch pushing off with his leg, a single blow. He didn't attempt more. He later said he was trying to hit him in the forehead, but got him square in the teeth.
Without the video, the whole scenario would have appeared to be 180 degrees different. The bigger kid moved on to even smaller and younger kids in the summer and was finally removed for a few weeks or 'retraining'.
Fox 29 reporting he was convicted of assault charge.
Some men would rather die standing tall than live on there knees. The kid who confronted the bully is one of those men. Yes a young man but no less a man. Its unfortunate the bully died.
Shod
I predicted that one of the lesser included offenses he might be convicted of was assault causing bodily injury.
That is a Class A misdemeanor. Seems like a good result. As a misdemeanor, his life won't be ruined with a felony conviction.
Kid probably shouldn't have hit him in the throat after he was unconscious. But, hey...he won't throw another pencil eraser at anybody.
OK, so that's the 1st I seen of that one.
I can understand fighting back, but once their down, the lesson is over.
A terrible situation all the way around and like any LEO thread, none of us were there, nor do we have full insight. I've seen pretty much all sides of the high-school dynamics. I grew up in Northern MN where there was a mix of 99% white and then the reservation kids that thought there were entitled. I was a scrappy guy that didn't take schitt from anyone, but there were true bad-azzes that ruled the school when they wanted. We had what was called the Indian Hallway where no white kids would even walk down. You would be amazed at what goes on in a small school with a good amount of bad actors/serious druggies and then the Indian issues.
The other side of the coin is my step-son who was a chubby kid who got bullied a lot. To the degree a bunch of kids on the wrestling team pissed on his winter coat and shoved him and then his jacket in the toilet. I was fired up HOT when I got to the school and when the wrestling coach started making excuses, I got a piece of him.
The point of the RWE quote is that I agree, once someone is down (especially kids/teenagers), that should be it. But I've seen first-hand the rage that can build up in kids that have been bullied persistently for days, months, years.
If the feel-goods in the world want to really take on a cause that has serious social issues, it should be bullying.
BTW - I remember reading Elmer Keith saying he and his brother got beat up by a bully and his dad told them to fix the problem or he would beat their azz. I think he said they took axe-handles to the kid and straightened him out!
I predicted that one of the lesser included offenses he might be convicted of was assault causing bodily injury.
That is a Class A misdemeanor. Seems like a good result. As a misdemeanor, his life won't be ruined with a felony conviction.
While unfortunate the bully lost his life the kid making a defense certainly deserves the opportunity he's been given.
Perhaps bullying will take a dramatic decline in that school.
Shod
The point of the RWE quote is that I agree, once someone is down (especially kids/teenagers), that should be it. But I've seen first-hand the rage that can build up in kids that have been bullied persistently for days, months, years.
Seen it? Hell I lived it.
Despite the anger, when the boy said "no more" I stopped.
Between schools, parents, and society, the situations should never be allowed to fester to the point that blind rage is the outlet for the last straw.
Which is why I was OK with what the kid did, until I heard that he may have struck a blow after the deceased went down.
Frankly, the more I read on the subject, the less I feel that there were any "good" parties in the event. And since we will never likely get the whole story, I'm done parsing this one.
Whole thing sucks.
I say put that terrific kid in the ring with Mayweather and pay him $180M.
FWIW the most detailed account of the altercation I can find is here...
http://herald-zeitung.com/community_alert/article_a6749166-dda6-11e4-bd59-9ba675415ea5.html...two quick blows, one to the jaw from the front, another to the jaw from the rear/side before the deceased went down, and at 15, like someone said, waiting in the hallway as class lets out can still be in the heat of the moment.
A tragic case, but the best verdict possible IMHO.
Back when our son was about 15 years old or so an a over grown thug of kid who was a fair bit larger, taller, and a year or two older, plus already with a police record, transfered in to the high school and started to bully him. Our son tried to ignore the thug's bullying and threats as long as he could. Last resort he tried reporting it to school official per school policy hoping they would handle it so he wouldn't get suspended if he was forced to defended himself. He was told by them, basically, 'good luck', and that they we're scared of the thug kid, too, and that he had actually cut somebody before!
As luck would have it soon after the thug happened by while our son was arm wrestling with some of the varsity football players and winning against some of them and tied with the rest.
From then on the thug became super friendly.
How to call this one? I dunno.
On the surface? Murder .. no. Negligent homicide .. maybe. Most likely depends on the laws of the specific state, precedence set in the past, details of the case we might not all have yet .. etc.
I'll agree with "I dunno." Hard to argue when someone says they don't know.
Tom
He should have fought Mayweather.
If kids were allowed to fight as kids should do, all this 'bully' crap would have been sorted out long before they got to high school, an age when they can start to do real damage.
Grade school is when everything gets sorted out, then you spend HS trying to get stinky finger.
If kids were allowed to fight as kids should do, all this 'bully' crap would have been sorted out long before they got to high school, an age when they can start to do real damage.
Grade school is when everything gets sorted out, then you spend HS trying to get stinky finger.
Truth.
Complete bullschit verdict. I'd like to know a little more about the demographics and families involved. Something smells.
Complete bullschit verdict. I'd like to know a little more about the demographics and families involved. Something smells.
You're right. Should have been involuntary manslaughter though I don't believe there's provisions for it in Texas law.
The kid should have understood that smacking someone in the head could result in death even though the likelihood is small. Ya takes your chances, you own the results.
We don't have the full bullying history of their relationship here, so hard to judge as others have said. But from the articles posted, this rates as low level bullying on my scale. Name calling and throwing paper wads and simple insults ain't schitt.
I unfortunately have extensive experience in bullying having grown up in a schithole town in New Mexico as a white guy in a sea of mescan and indian scum. Every last fawkin' day of school or little league or whatever was a struggle with bully schitheads. I've seen it all and had plenty happen to me. And no....it wasn't resolved in grade school and was plenty worse in high school (had a guy beaten to death in the hallway and not accidentally). Plenty of 'em don't mind picking on the 'gentler souls' long term (or the white ones) just cuz they can.
Some of my biggest regrets from my childhood are not doing what I say right here. If I had it to do over again, I would've been much more violent. MUCH more.
Nothing like clocking a bully just as hard as you can......suddenly and unexpected to his total surprise. You will likely stop it and YOU WILL FEEL BETTER AND NOT CARRY UNNECESSARY, UNDESERVED BAGGAGE AROUND WITH YOU.
For the worse, non-stop, long-term, physical and emotional and dehumanizing bullies......ground and pound and beat them half-to-death. Broken nose, broken jaw, teeth............everything is fair game with these lunatics. Kick and stomp their fawkin' face in. If they're bigger than you and more experienced or ganged up or they are packing or some such thing.......get a bat or a hickory stick. Stick a handgun in their face and tell 'em they stop it or you'll stop it. DO NOT LET IT GO ON. And no warning or invitation required!
Now as for workplace bullies (which I also have some wild experiences with).......things need to be handled on a more professional and legal basis.
Complete bullschit verdict. I'd like to know a little more about the demographics and families involved. Something smells.
You're right. Should have been involuntary manslaughter though I don't believe there's provisions for it in Texas law.
The kid should have understood that smacking someone in the head could result in death even though the likelihood is small. Ya takes your chances, you own the results.
Good God. Did you EVER get into a scrap as a kid? The "killer" threw two punches, and wasn't any behemoth in the doing so. Manslaughter? For a [bleep] two-punch schoolhouse tussle?
WTF?
A kid died, on campus, by violence at the hands of another kid in circumstances other than in the gravest extreme. No way was this case not going to trial.
Provoked or not, the individual on trial initiated a violent physical confrontation in the hallway.
To the best of my knowledge misdemeanor criminal assault charges filed by the city or county could equally well have been levied had the kid been seventeen or older in a "normal" altercation of that nature resulting in no permanent injuries. The Cops would have been called and the offender arrested, taken to the station, and booked.
New Braunfels is a fairly upscale bedroom community between Austin and San Antonio (30-40 miles along I 35 from both) with as far as I know diverse demographics. I see nothing in the way this case was handled that indicates covert motives or a hidden agenda one way or another.
JMHO,
Birdwatcher
A kid died, on campus, by violence at the hands of another kid in circumstances other than in the gravest extreme. No way was this case not going to trial.
Provoked or not, the individual on trial initiated a violent physical confrontation in the hallway.
To the best of my knowledge misdemeanor criminal assault charges filed by the city or county could equally well have been levied had the kid been seventeen or older in a "normal" altercation of that nature resulting in no permanent injuries. The Cops would have been called and the offender arrested, taken to the station, and booked.
New Braunfels is a fairly upscale bedroom community between Austin and San Antonio (30-40 miles along I 35 from both) with as far as I know diverse demographics. I see nothing in the way this case was handled that indicates covert motives or a hidden agenda one way or another.
JMHO,
Birdwatcher
What horsechit. I guess you never got into a schoolhouse scuffle. It's now a border-line capital f'kin' offense.
No wonder the entire damned country is in the shape it's in.
So if some ass is causing problems, he should be dealt with M of Q?
That's not what I said, is it.
BW,
Spent some time in New Braunfels when I was a kid as my aunt/uncle owned a motel there.
Was the school/teacher negligent in not nipping this in the bud as the defense attorney claimed? How the heck did the teacher not notice an eraser thrown in his classroom?
Believe me there are plenty of administrators/managers/HR people in public and private sectors that would prefer to do nothing after a complaint is filed..............or even blame the complainant in order to not deal with the situation. And, as is the American way........then proceed to lie about it in order to protect their jobs or not get sued. Most are pretty chickensheet and you end up handling things yourself anyway.
I bet if the complainant walked in and said 'you stop this or I'll stop it by shooting the SOB' they would act.........huh??
I guess you never got into a schoolhouse scuffle.
Two as a kid, more'n that in the last 25 years
Much discretion is customarily applied as to what the disciplinary outcome will be, if any. But yeah, in case involving serious injury charges are much more likely.
Birdwatcher
Good God. Did you EVER get into a scrap as a kid? The "killer" threw two punches, and wasn't any behemoth in the doing so. Manslaughter? For a [bleep] two-punch schoolhouse tussle?
WTF?
I'm Polish, what do you think?
The call out was "meet me at Bock and Shuman after school". Down the street from the school, a vacant lot with no teachers, principal or parents. Always a crowd to watch, no one grabbed a gun or a knife when it was over and ya lost.
Was the school/teacher negligent in not nipping this in the bud as the defense attorney claimed? How the heck did the teacher not notice an eraser thrown in his classroom?
Sounds to me from this distance as if the teacher was less than vigilant through the whole thing, whether that makes him legally culpable re. the exceedingly unexpected and tragic outcome in this case is another issue.
Believe me there are plenty of administrators/managers/HR people in public and private sectors that would prefer to do nothing after a complaint is filed..............or even blame the complainant in order to not deal with the situation.
Can't think of any teachers or admin known to me personally that meet that description. The most likely motive IMHO for the teacher not proactively taking action to head off the conflict in this case would be that the teacher was simply unaware of the gravity of the situation.
How this reflects upon the competence of that individual I dunno for sure, but it doesn't sound good.
Birdwatcher
My take, it's a shame the kid died, but this never have gone to trial. The defendent will be living with this for the rest of his life, that's a big enough burden, didn't need to run him through the whole goat rope of a trial.
Should be handled in juvenile court. It was a school fight that went horribly wrong.
Sad all the way around. I'll agree death was not the intent the intent was a lesson, which the boy had coming.
To bad this is the path the bully choose, he was much to young to make such a decision. It's I tough thing for all involved.
I'm Polish, what do you think?
Awww schit! I was just starting to like you.......
Sad deal.
One kid dead and one kid has to carry that around with him forever. Hopefully it won't define the rest of his life.
A very unfortunate situation all the way around.
Even a little google-fu brings up all sorts more questions.
At one point, an 18 year old hispanic student was arrested and implicated in the murder as well, but reports were sketchy if he was involved with the deceased and fomented the incident from both ends or what.
Charges later dropped, and the kid quit school.
Odd.
also trying to determine if the second hit was in fact after the decedent lost consciousness - apparently the hit caused him to strike his head against the wall - which was the proximate cause of the terminal injury, but I can't confirm.
Actually, won't confirm. Someone else can leg work it if they care to. I shouldn't have spent anymore time on it than what I did; but it was nagging at me.