I'm talking about spent fuel from Nuclear Reactors used for power generation.
What do we do with the waste?
Drop it in the deep ocean? Deep underground depository? Shoot it into orbit?
Drop it on Tehran and Pyongyang.
Where have you been? We bury it in special crypts out in Utah.
Drop it on Tehran and Pyongyang.
Yup.
were it not for the political shenanigans, we would have it all in deep underground at Yuca Mountain
Funny you should mention political shenanigans Sam. The story I heard was they picked Yuca Mountain over a place in Louisiana and Washington State was because it was the least politically sensitive site.
maybe drop it on known ISIS strong holds? for starters.
Funny you should mention political shenanigans Sam. The story I heard was they picked Yuca Mountain over a place in Louisiana and Washington State was because it was the least politically sensitive site.
Put it at the Nevada Test Site. That place is so contaminated, it'll never be cleaned up.
Yucca Mountain in Nevada! Billions of your tax dollars were spent on this high level wast repository and not one gram of waste was ever stored there. You can thank Harry Reed on this issue! The facility is/was 100% complete and the state of Nevada then refused to allow any waste to be sent there.
Harry Reed GFY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Give it to Iran for free!
They have tons of the stuff stored at the INL atomic test site in Idaho. It's not a safe place. It's earthquake prone and over the southern Idaho aquifer. They government has agreed several times to get it moved but it's still here. They keep piling on lie after lie. It was supposed to go to Yucca Mtn but like has been said, that's a Harry Reid boondoggle.
BTW, a lot of our atomic waste is from reactors in places like France and other European countries. The feds think its safer here where we can control it rather than there where possibly terrorists can get it. We're the world's nuke waste storage pit.
Isn't much of it destined for WIPP at Carlsbad, NM?
After they re-open, of course.
I'm talking about spent fuel from Nuclear Reactors used for power generation.
What do we do with the waste?
Drop it in the deep ocean? Deep underground depository? Shoot it into orbit?
The law of the land is that the fed gov is supposed to take possession of the spent fuel and put in in Yucca Mountain. Of course .gov can ignore any laws they don’t like. With Harry retiring, there’s a chance that gets back on track in the next administration.
The spent fuel actually has a good bit of the energy of the uranium and the other transuranic nasty stuff that can still be harnessed, just not by our currently operating reactor technology. Most likely it will someday be reprocessed and burned further. That also significantly reduces the half-life of the eventual unusable waste.
I saw a thing on TV one time, long ago, about places in the ocean where it could be dropped, encased in concrete, and molten lave would carry it back down into the earth. Sounds like a good idea if these places really exist. miles
My nephew has a PhD in glass engineering. He did a good part of his research at the Hanford facility in WA working on tying up nuke waste in glass. If they can get it to work, it will be impervious to water, earthquakes, etc. It will also be easy to handle. I don't know what the current status of it is.
After graduation, he got out of that. He's now working for a company that makes bullet proof glass so he's out of the loop.
Isn't much of it destined for WIPP at Carlsbad, NM?
After they re-open, of course.
I think WIPP is just for defense waste, not commercial, but I’m not absolutely certain.
Deep underground depository--Eurajoki in Finland is due to start accepting used fuel rods in 2020--Forsberg in Sweden has just approved a site there, France has also approved a site.
I heard a rumour that Germany and France are negotiating with Finland to take theirs also.
Rufus is right--there is a good bit of energy left in the spent fuel but current technology limits its recovery.
There really is a lot of places that it could be stored safely but no one wants it in their backyard and therefore all the problems are political.
Eruojoki in Finland was tickled to get it--town of 6000 with 700 new high paying jobs. Lots of competition for the site in Sweden also.
Northwestern Ontario has lost 30 paper mills in the last 20 years--all the little towns up here are quickly turning into 1 gas station whistlestops. Its an economically depressed area. My own kids had to move away for employment--but nobody wants it here either.
I think we ought to find a place to store it and then go Nuclear--them windmills are a good idea that didn't work.
Green Power my a$$
I think part of the problem is that "hot" waste actually erodes most container materials in fairly short time scales hence the research into glass encasement..
We have similar political issues surrounding such waste and at the moment its stored in vast ponds at a reprocessing plant.
The trouble is that what ever is decided, the whole process of retrieving, processing for transport/storage and the entombment will be hugely expensive. It is also complicated by the fact that much of the waste goes back to the 1950's and nobody is exactly what is in the current storage ponds..
Incidentally one of the worlds worst nuclear accidents (the 1957 Kyshtym disaster) happened at a Russian storage facility when the cooling system of one of their “storage tanks” inadvertently failed allowing the waste to overheat and explode. The resultant explosion/fire contaminated a huge swath of land that is still closed to humans today.
Finland, like most of Europe, will be Muslim controlled in a decade or two. That will put a powerful weapon in the hands of those who we really don't want to have such weapons. They might not be able to use them for nukes, but dirty bombs are very scary, too.
I know nothing about nuclear science, but I recall hearing an energy expert explain that used nuclear fuel (like after several hundred years) would eventually be recycled again and generate even more power. But I have no idea what the details were about. Anybody hear of anything like this?
Usually we elect them to office and store them on Capital hill for at least their half life.
Jim
I'm talking about spent fuel from Nuclear Reactors used for power generation.
What do we do with the waste?
Drop it in the deep ocean? Deep underground depository? Shoot it into orbit?
All these have been considered. We've:
1. dropped barrels of radioactive waster into oceans,
2. been building underground storage facilities in Nevada.
3. provided "temporary" storage in pools of water at reactor sites (this has been "temporary" for 60 years with no end in sight)
4. considered sending it the the sun on rockets, and
5. using reactors to convert the radioactive material into another element.
None has proven to be a perfect answer. The barrels dropped into the ocean leak and decay; the underground storage facilities (probably the best answer) are expensive and require land transport (air transport is considered too risky); the "temporary" storage pools are filling up and must be removed; rockets are faulty and an explosion on lift-off would be catastrophic and; converting the fuel into another element would be VERY expensive.
There seems to be no good answer.
were it not for the political shenanigans, we would have it all in deep underground at Yuca Mountain
Yucca Mountain (Nevada) has been a disaster waiting to happen as it is sitting in an earthquake prone area. The only way to transport this waste is over land (air transportation is considered too risky) and many states and localities oppose it traveling through their territory.
I saw a thing on TV one time, long ago, about places in the ocean where it could be dropped, encased in concrete, and molten lave would carry it back down into the earth. Sounds like a good idea if these places really exist. miles
Molten lava moves in a circular pattern, often up to the surface and then down toward the center of the earth (unless there is a volcanic eruption and exposition of lava which would eject the radioactive material into the atmosphere).
The circular movement of the molten core of the earth would move it around but no one would know for sure where it would end up.
They have tons of the stuff stored at the INL atomic test site in Idaho. It's not a safe place. It's earthquake prone and over the southern Idaho aquifer. They government has agreed several times to get it moved but it's still here. They keep piling on lie after lie. It was supposed to go to Yucca Mtn but like has been said, that's a Harry Reid boondoggle.
BTW, a lot of our atomic waste is from reactors in places like France and other European countries. The feds think its safer here where we can control it rather than there where possibly terrorists can get it. We're the world's nuke waste storage pit.
Yucca Mountain (NV) was conceived in 1982 (Reagan Administration) as a place to store radioactive waste. In the past 33 or so years, billions have been spent and problems (geology, construction and financial) keep arising - they never seem to end.
I think the real reason spent nuclear fuel isn't going anywhere is that it's really only a couple of % used. Well over 90% of if is not yet fissioned.
Breeder reactors can use it as fuel, and even though breeder reactors are currently out of favor, it doesn't make a lot of sense to encase it in glass if you have an eye on using it later.
Rock Chuck,
A significant portion of the high level waste (reactor fuel rods) at the INL has been moved to dry above ground storage versus the wet (pool) storage from the past. As such, it poses a much smaller risk to the aquifer. Liquid high level wast has, except for a few tanks, has been converted into a dry powder and stored in tanks; again a safer approach.
A poster mentioned the WIPP facility in NM, it was never designed or planned to contain high level (reactor fuel rods) waste.
They have tons of the stuff stored at the INL atomic test site in Idaho. It's not a safe place. It's earthquake prone and over the southern Idaho aquifer. They government has agreed several times to get it moved but it's still here. They keep piling on lie after lie. It was supposed to go to Yucca Mtn but like has been said, that's a Harry Reid boondoggle.
BTW, a lot of our atomic waste is from reactors in places like France and other European countries. The feds think its safer here where we can control it rather than there where possibly terrorists can get it. We're the world's nuke waste storage pit.
I wouldn't say 90% but it is a significant percentage. Jimmy Carter scuttled a nearly completed fuel reprocessing plant in South Carolina to prevent proliferation of enriched nuclear materials. The bottom line, nuclear power plants across the country are building additional fuel pools as there isn't any place to send it for reprocessing or to Yucca Mtn. for disposal.
Most if not all commercial power reactors, while not called breeder reactors, do convert uranium to plutonium which is then fissionable.
Your government at work...
Why not mix it with steel and ship the glow in the dark rebar cheeeeep to Mexico? They did the same to us a while back.
It's largely a political problem. Monitored retrievable storage in a geologic repository would alleviate some of the public concern and make it easy to retrieve for reprocessing. The current practice of long term storage of spent fuel at power plants is asinine. Reprocessing is a mature technology that has been used in France and elsewhere for many years.
There is so much stupid in this thread its not even funny, craigD is the only person who seems to have any actual knowledge. Dry cask storage is how they do it now. when do bring the fuel out of the reactor down the transfer canal, they put it into a space in the spent fuel pool, after its "cooled off" they load it into a lead lined, stainless steel cask. This cask in then incased in a [bleep] load of concrete, and moved with a special machine, they are able to take a 747 flying into them without being compromised.
if anyone is wondering, i work in nuke plants. no you dont have to worry about them, were so damn regulated that crossing an imaginary boundry 30 seconds after you just walked through there, will get you run off and kickd out permanently. so much oversight its not even funny.
I'm talking about spent fuel from Nuclear Reactors used for power generation.
What do we do with the waste?
Drop it in the deep ocean? Deep underground depository? Shoot it into orbit?
Dump it in the Middle East,
Yep.
Stick 'em up obama's butt and kick him out the door.
I saw a thing on TV one time, long ago, about places in the ocean where it could be dropped, encased in concrete, and molten lave would carry it back down into the earth. Sounds like a good idea if these places really exist. miles
Molten lava moves in a circular pattern, often up to the surface and then down toward the center of the earth (unless there is a volcanic eruption and exposition of lava which would eject the radioactive material into the atmosphere).
The circular movement of the molten core of the earth would move it around but no one would know for sure where it would end up.
if dropped in a subduction zone its gonna be diluted to such an extent its not an issue....besides it will be likely hundreds of thousands of years before it even comes in contact with lava to start the melting process, meanwhile it wil contaminate a very small piece of property and be continually buried deeper and deeper by mother nature....
Now that that Harry Reid is retiring maybe Yucca Mtn. will be reopened. I'm in So. Nevada and there are plenty of people who were fine with it. We could set off atmospheric A-bombs in the 1950's at the test site, but now we can't bury it safely?
There are scores of radioactive holes in the desert where underground tests were performed but we can't safely bury more?
The folks in Nye County where it is located wanted it to happen for the $ and jobs it would create.
There is so much stupid in this thread its not even funny, craigD is the only person who seems to have any actual knowledge. Dry cask storage is how they do it now. when do bring the fuel out of the reactor down the transfer canal, they put it into a space in the spent fuel pool, after its "cooled off" they load it into a lead lined, stainless steel cask. This cask in then incased in a [bleep] load of concrete, and moved with a special machine, they are able to take a 747 flying into them without being compromised.
if anyone is wondering, i work in nuke plants. no you dont have to worry about them, were so damn regulated that crossing an imaginary boundry 30 seconds after you just walked through there, will get you run off and kickd out permanently. so much oversight its not even funny.
Don't take this as a bash on the nuclear industry, but based on my experience in the oil industry which is also heavily regulated (though only a fraction of what nuclear has to deal with) I'd say that heavy regulation does not guarantee safety. True safety is achieved through constant vigilance.
Overly restrictive regulations and a mind set that nothing can go wrong leads a work force into complacency which can bite you in the ass.
True safety is achieved through constant vigilance.
Yep. Fiftyish years (depending on how you count) of commercial nuclear energy in the US and the number of people killed or even seriously injured by the nuclear part is still zero. That's zero point zero zero. Safer than riding a bicycle or taking a bath.
Nuclear energy gets held to an absolutely insane standard of safety, it actually meets that standard, and gets not enough credit for that accomplishment.
Built and refueled a few Nuke's in the 70's & 80's and if I remember correctly at that time we shipped spent fuel rod's in containers to South Carolina.
There is so much stupid in this thread its not even funny,
Just business as usual on the campfire.
Built and refueled a few Nuke's in the 70's & 80's and if I remember correctly at that time we shipped spent fuel rod's in containers to South Carolina.
Probably to the Savanna River Site (DOE)