My son really enjoyed his Boyscout welding merit badge and he wants to pursue this welding even more. He wants a mig welder. He is very artistic and wants to make metal sculptures. He also wants to try and make a metal gate out of 3" square stock.
I don't know anything about welding and welders so I was looking for a little advice. I know there is much to it be I am looking for something that is inexpensive and if he learns and grows with his skills than I will address better quality then. Any ideas or information would be helpful. Thanks in advance -tnscouter

Back 20 years ago both me and my older brother got into stock car racing at a local dirt track. We went halfers on a Hobart Handler 120 to use on body panels and roll bar repairs. We used the heck outta that thing, and I believe it'll work out well for your boy. It don't have enough penetration for real heavy stuff, but up to about 1/4" plate it's the cats azz. We ain't racing anymore but that thing still gets used.
7mm

A big question is whether you want a 120 or 240v welder. A 240 will do a LOT more but a 120 is very useful when you have a job outside your shop. For art work, a 120 would probably be plenty but once a guy gets some experience, you'd be surprised at how many larger projects will come up.
Also, whether you can do with a 120 depends on your house wiring. If you're wired with 14 ga wire, a 120 can put a lot of strain on a circuit. You might need to turn off everything else on the circuit to keep from popping breakers.

The guys covered the 120 vs. 220/240 thing well - and they are very correct on this.. I went 240, and wish I'd bought a 120 for small jobs as well.

BTW - Miller is often considered better, but Lincoln machine prices have dropped at Homedepot.. They now have the 240 version for 665..

Some other smaller stuff that I learned
MIG likes clean surfaces - wire wheel what your going to weld first... All good.

Using gas on MIG vs. resin core make a much, much cleaner weld.
A cart comes in handy if you are doing the gas method
Try getting a used bottle, new one's aren't cheap. Craig's list.

Auto Darkening glass in the face shield is all good
Leather arms on a heavy jacket (welding jacket) make things just pleasant.

Aluminum is OK for MIG.. Barely... I think TIG is the way to go there.

Local Community colleges teach welding .. Even during the summer.

Making Metal with FIRE is AWESOME

There are a few models that will run on both 120 and 240. They aren't cheap, though.

Correct.. Flux...

I had some new steel posts I had to cut in a basement that needed to be welded ... So the 120 thing - I meant the plug vs. the 240 is too big.

I've welded traps, lawn mowers, snow blowers, and square channel with my 240 Lincoln so I can go light or heavy just like you said.

First off MIG always use a gas shielding. What you "resin" core is actually "flux core" which when combined with a shielding gas is "dual shield". All welding should be performed on a clean surface.

Set up correctly a 240 or 440 welder will do small thin metal work perfectly.

I supervised a small prototype and the owner was also a car enthusiast, he had a 120 MIG unit he used for car stuff. We also used it in the shop, it did everything I needed it to do. We did a lot of fabrication using angle iron and square tubing and it worked just fine. Good advice regarding the used gas bottle and the cart. Be sure to make the cart wide enough so as not to tip, use quality casters or wheels. A place to wind the cables on the cart is also handy.

I had a machine and metal fab shop for 28 years...used Miller exclusively had Model 200's and variations of them ran them for months at a time 24/7 other than expendables maybe 1-2 brake downs a year with 6 welders that needed a service man...the Classic 200 is a work horse simple dials no digital read outs 2 of my original machines were in perfect running condition after using them for 28 years...

I'am retired and wanting a welder that could be easily put in the back of a truck to take to camp or be powered by a generator for field use on farm only needs 30 amp 208 V. I bought a Miller 180 about 9 years ago it weighs 80 lbs. and have been very happy with the performance. It is use a couple times a week, built several trailers a 10,000 lbs boat hoist, repaired sea walls, docks, tree stands, hunting towers, deer feeders, anything that neighbors and friends need built or repaired.....

I have a spool gun for MIG welding aluminum using 100% argon gas, also a tank of 75%-25% for steel, I keep a couple 10 lbs. spools of "flux core" for when I'am welding outside and there's wind.

A person could get by with just using "flux core" on steel it does create more smoke when welding, so you need good ventilation if doing welding indoors. There is a coating after a weld that must be wire brushed off on the welds. Its a lot more expensive 4-5 time more than plain steel spool wire. It will weld better with dirty, rusty, painted steel. You can weld outside on a windy day, I've welded in 20 mph winds. Don't need to have a tank of gas and worry your going to run out in the middle of a project.

I would stay away from a 110 V welder, they are good for body repair and not much more.

When buying a welder look at the "duty cycle" it is a % of time that the welder is designed to run doing a weld. The higher it is the longer you can weld. If its 80% you should not be welding for 20% of the time..

Yeah, duty cycle is a big thing. My neighbor who doesn't know much about welding,he bought a wire feed from harbor freight. It's like a spot welder, junk.

If I had to choose one welding tool out of my arsenal setting all else aside I would hands down take an ox-acetylene torch. For light art work it would be indispensable. Cut, heat, weld, braze and solder all in one package.

Look on craigslist...you might find a good deal there...especially right after Christmas...before you do though check home depot etc. to get an idea of what a new unit would cost...gas bottles/lines will be an extra expense if buying new...

That said, learning how to properly weld is a great skill to have & he should be encouraged.

Rent the bottles

I bought some used oxy-acet bottles 30 years ago and haven't paid a nickle in rent since. For the long run, buying is much cheaper. You swap them when its refill time so it doesn't matter what shape they're in.

You better buy them from a welding supply that'll refill individually owned bottle. A lot of places will not refill individually owned bottles.

Paying bottle rent is STUPID,....always has been.

GTC

Not being able to get them refilled is even stupider.

BRAVO !

....gotta say that I could not agree more, and of ANYTHING important to a young welder's future, it's GOT to be the intuitive "feel" for a molten puddle's dynamics, surface tensions, and formabilities that ONLY Gas welding imparts.

Whoever first said, "I can teach a monkey to MIG" got it dead right.

GTCGTC

always nice to get sterling advice from a chit hot welding ace.

....leaves one feeling humbled.

GTC

Only been doing it for 45 years and have been all over the US as well as overseas for my expertise.

Try again ace!

But have you ever cobbled together a rabbit hutch?

Depots DON'T "refill" bottles, they ROTATE your empties for clean , recently certified CLEAN and full ones. "Owner bottles" are stamped with an alpha numeric code,....that's honored in 50 states.

FWIW I currently "own" about 25 cylinders,....O2, Acetylene, Argon, Co2, Nitrogen, Mixed Gases,....even compressed air.

"A lot of places"....Bush league is just that,....body shops, auto parts dives, and other jerk wad outfits

....than there's professionals.

GBTC

A stud welder is not so hard to find, a stud torch fitter is a rare duck. You will be doing him a favor by teaching him how to run a torch now. You can go propane and oxygen to keep it easy if a welding supplier is not close. One k bottle will run a bunch of 20lb propane bottles.

For a cheap wire feed, it's tough to beat a hobart for the money. Hobart, lincoln and miller should be on your radar.

Pizzing contest about welding ensues,....

some notably absent.

GTC

I have 11 bottles.....own every one of them. NEVER had a problem getting filled even at competition stores.

Ni guess I missed the part where I posted it was impossible.

I dunno where this "hard to get refilled" horsechit comes from, either.

....what better place to get smoke blown up one's azz than a welding environment, though.

GTC

Welding threads, much like chainsaw threads, tend to turn stupid rather quickly on here.

But here goes anyway, get him a Miller 211. He will be able to practice his welding and make things now. Later you can add a oxy acet cutting outfit.

Buy from an actual dealer where the can try it out first and he can get real help if needed.

Miller prices usually go up in Feb, so look now.

The closest I ever got was when two competing stores had different paint codes for owner vs rental. A quick phone call solved it.

tnscouter,

See this thread:

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/9961774/Searchpage/3/Main/691790/Words/welder/Search/true/Re:_Upgrading_the_Welding_Shop#Post9961774

Best thread on welders that I have seen.

The rebate mentioned in the first post has expired, but it may come around again.

Myron

I'd probably get him a small inverter based wire feed welder with a gas solenoid and the highest duty cycle I could find. The Miller machines with the 115V/230V are kind of neat. I'd get a quality machine, there's lots of off brand junk out there. You might ask on Weldersweb. I'm sure you'd get a volley of responses over there. I was taught on a little Lincoln 115V machine. I still have one, but hardly ever use it. I bought it for it's portability, but for anything short of a quick repair, it's just easier to use my engine drive and suitcase. I've used the little 115V very successfully to repair cast iron with fluxcore, preheat, and controlled cooling. The nice thing about the little 115V machines is that it's hard to set it out of range on anything larger than 10ga. That said my first mig, I bought it when in college, was a 230V Century 145 amp Mig. It was the display model at SAMs Club. I gave it to my brother when he wanted to learn to weld.

I just did a quick review of the current offerings from Miller and Lincoln and I agree with Lonny, get'em the Miller 211.

Hit It

Gotta go get my asbestos underwear,....the smoke's blowing hotter and thicker.

later

GTC

Sheesh... Once again in true campfire form, the guy asks a about a MIG welder for his son and he gets suggestions on how he would be better off with Oxy/Acet and a pissing match on whether to rent or buy shielding gas bottles follows.

Remember, this is just a kid that wants to play around with a welder at this point. He is not going to take his 6GR TIG Pipe test or going into business at this point. Just a Dad asking what would be a good starter machine for his son that won't break the bank.

For what the kid is wanting to do, he will need a cutting torch anyway.

I'd buy him a used oxy acetylene set up and let him learn to weld with it. Propane is not so good for welding, so I'd go with an acetylene bottle and appropriate cutting tip.

If he learns to make a decent position weld with gas, he won't have ANY trouble with other types of welders.

FWIW.... Aerospace engineers I've known seem to think that a gas weld has superior fatigue properties in comparison with other approved types.

And the best starter machine IS an Oxy-Acet unit and it will not break the bank. No electricity required. It is the first welding tool ANY beginner should use in the real world. A more useful and versatile tool for beginner or professional does not exist.

Amen

Precisely what I did for the very same reason with recommendations coming from here.

...and it would seem some notably front and center of every one that takes place.






tnscouter, Going on the assumption that you are located in TN, (your profile doesn't say if or what part of the state your in).
If you are around eTN, I have a couple of 110v wire machines setting on the shelve that I bought for some light duty traveling contract work last spring that has been completed. One is a miller sp-100 and the other is the Lincoln power mig 140. Both have the trigger operated gas solenoid.

I'm not really lookin to sell either but If you are pretty close(k-town), I wouldn't be beyond just letting you borrow either machine to let you and your son use it for a bit to get a better feel for what you are looking for.

AND Hallelujah, that's probably how most of us learned how to flow molten together. These monkeys that I work with barely pass the 3G flux core test to get hired and then the real learning begins. Most have never even ran stick. You catch them trying to tack chit together out of position with jet (7024) and I'm about damn near ready to pull my hair out. Too many young guys start on wire and don't really get the concept of true welding... They should learn the basics, starting with oxy-acetylene (this also includes brazing), then stick: 6011, 6013, 7024, and good ol low hy (7018).... I was 9 years old the first time I struck an arc, with both my dad who was a Navy Seabee and my grandfather who was running a welding shop at a naval base and retired from the US Army Corps of Engineers... This is my best advice....

I think you may have known my grandfather.... He used to always say that... He also used to say there are only 2 kinds of welders too: The ones that watch in front of the puddle and the ones that watch behind it... I do both, so I think he was smoking something or I just didn't get his metaphorical thinking...

Can you all supply more guidance on buying used bottles?

I'm just getting my post-retirement shop set up and need to get a gas outfit together.

Inasmuch as I know nothing, how can I be sure I'm buying a legitimate private-ownership bottle and not something that's going to get reclaimed from me the first time I go to exchange it?

I am near Joliet, IL if that bears on it.

Since I am posting questions... I've read that buying a used gas setup may be a bad bargain because the valves/gauges are too safety-critical to use items of unknown maintenance condition and because new valves/gauges are much improved over the past. Anyone care to comment on that?

TIA

So far this is a good read

Carry-on

If the kid wants a MIG welder, let him get a MIG welder. What works in a fab shop isn't necessarily the best for a little use home unit. I have big ones and little ones. I really like my Millermatic 250 but the most recent welder I bought was a Thermal Arc. It uses an inverter rather than a transformer- it is 1/4 the weight of the Miller, a little cheaper and has much smaller current requirement to run it. It is feature laden with things like pulse, arc burn back, wire sharp in addition it does lift TIG and stick just fine.
There is nothing wrong with a Miller except the price if you are a hobby welder. The Thermal arc does a lot more and is much easier to move around. The inverter took a little getting used to but after a few minutes I was laying some really good beads and didn't look back.
The model I bought was the 252i but there are some nice ones that are smaller; 181i for example. I have not had great luck with the 120 volts welders. I also would recommend getting one that can use shielding gas even if you use straight CO2. Flux core wire is very expensive, leave a mess and is best suited for outdoor work where your gas would be blown away by a breeze.

To my knowledge, there are none around here that won't fill privately owned bottles. They don't even check to see who owns it. They just swap you out. If you rent, they send you a bill once a year.

I don't know where they send them to get them refilled but it's not done here. They truck them to somewhere. They have to be tested so they do that, too.

No CLUE as to how it works in Ill., or how to trust anybody from Joliette

Buying a bottle ?

Take the vendor and bottle to your suppliers depot, and get assurance that the bottle you're purchasing is CODED as an OWNER BOTTLE, and that you'll be able to rotate said bottle through his depot.

Lemme repeat something,there are alpha numeric codes on welding gas bottles / cylinders.

...there are Welding Gas Suppliers bottles that that the welding gas suppliers OWN,....THEIR property....they "Rent" them out.

Than there are bottles CODED, DESIGNATED buy alpha numeric stampings as OWNER BOTTLES.

YOU BUY, a bottle,....and than, once it's empty you ROTATE it into a system that will RETURN a bottle CODED identically, and full of their product.

Make it YOUR business to find a reputable supplier, and trust HIM to coach and steer you through a minefield, rife with corporate greed, charlatans, big mouthed know it all rookies, pimps, and a few whores.

Let me repeat something else,....if you want a spoiled, digital age punk buy him a MIG,...ALL BELLS AND WHISTLES.

I bought new bottles and they warned me to keep the invoice to show, if I tried other places to get filled. I have not used other places yet, as I use little gas and Oxygen. miles

Agreed

TIG

If somebody wants to weld pretty, a TIG is the way to go.

The Miller EconoTIG welder is an excellent rig for the money,...but even so, they don't give them away.

TIG



https://www.google.com/search?hl=en......0...1ac.1.64.img..0.9.925.cidR26wmANg

Simply, for my home hobby needs the Miller 211 I bought is ideal and I see no need to learn any other process as I will have no use for them. I am guessing this is true for the majority of folks purchasing welding machines these days. They build chitt in their garage, work on automobiles, fix a fence, not work in O&G welding heavy wall severe service alloys.

I'll elaborate, just a bit,....

This "frontier" country of ours was , right from the get go, a little WEAK in terms of refined metals,....The oft denigrated Miruko outfir MADE refined high carbon steels while Our Eastern Smiths relied on "English Steel" ,....some of it fair,...most only so-so.

We outgrew that, and for just a brief moment in history became the BEST of the BEST ,.....

This nation accomplished that with "engineers" that cut their teeth in and on SHOP floors,....working with old hands.
This nation accomplished that with "engineers" that were taught basic forge and gas welding , early in their "Vo-Tech" experience .
This nation accomplished that with "engineers" that had to do chores on STARVING grass roots farms,....and were raised by parents that could not "Buy them what they want".
This nation accomplished that with "engineers", that could work "in the round" with raw materials, in a demanding "no excuse for failure" environment,....

You want a spoiled, mouthy, incompetent punk,....by him a "process controlled" Mig,...and hook him up to a CNC machine, before training basics. Our "government" is hiring em' at land office record numbers.

He can go get a long list of "certifications, lick .gov bags, and participate in a celibration of mediocrity now going on 2 generations in making.

you want to raise a REAL METALSMITH ?

....get your chit together, and study what you just had the honor of reading, nimrods.

I've SEEN "welding" projects accomplished by some of the folks making the most noise on this thread here,....and will remain a mite underwhelmed at their real BOTTOM.

GTC

You know I'm with you on this!!

The OP asked about getting his kid a MIG welder, the kid wants a MIG welder. Maybe the kid doesn't want to be the next greatest pipeline welder but just wants to put some little art projects together. You guys are over thinking this.
Pretty strong statement to assume that the kid will become "spoiled", "mouthy" , "incompetent punk" just because he gets a newer generation feature-laden welder. Funny how we all seem to know what's best for everyone else's kids.

Should we find him an old 35- they didn't have many features!

As for gas cylinders, I never even have them glance at them when I take them in. They just give me a new cylinder and away I go. Find the right distributor and all is good. I probably have 20 cylinders; 75-25, Co2, O2, Nitrogen, Argon. They don't even care what was in the cylinder I return, I just tell them what I want and they credit the old one.

It's no big secret,....basic apprenticeships, and the gritty ground floor inculcation of our apprenticeships has been abrogated by featherbed artists.

Worms turn, and times change,.....BET your last dollar that American Industrial think tanks have batted alla' this around.

Some writing / reading MAY have even PARTICIPATED in the batting and bunting.

....to many chop saws and grinders,...not enough CLEAN cutting torch tips.

GTC

Pay LOTS of attention to what he just said. When you learn to do both, life behind the hood will change.

I'll throw my two cents in on the original post. There are many welding machines that will work. For home look for a 220/240 volt single phase machine. Go at least 180 amps to 220 amps. The lower amp machines are fine for sheet metal. Anything 1/4 " or thicker will not weld well. Lower amp machines will not give the penetration needed for good strong welds. Or have a duty cycle acceptable. Go cheap you either buy another, or get schitty welds. If your son wants to weld don't hamstring him at the beginning. Miller or Lincoln both have great deals. Hobart used to be good as, but not so good nowadays.

Fellows thanks for all your input on this. There is much knowledge on the 'Fire and I have benefited before from this collective knowledge.

My son did some different styles of welding during his merit badge learning and was captivated by it. He is 13 and told me he just wants to weld stuff together so he can learn how to make a really strong joint and improve the look of the bead. As he gets better he wants to do art work and build a gate. So basically he wants to piddle and learn and is not considering this as a career choice. However he is very big on doing things well and proper when these things interest him, so who knows.

I have always started them out simply when they have these interests and let their enjoyment or lack of, drive the hobby. You'd be amazed what happens with kids when the old man just provides opportunity, support, interest, and compliments, and lets the kid drive the show. Hopefully he will enjoy it and want to pursue it to a greater degree. He is very enterprising when he wants to do or learn something, but like most kids he just wants to do it on his own with as little instruction as needed. He knows classes are available if he has that desire.

Again thanks for all the comments and understand that I am cost sensitive. If I went top drawer right out of the gate on every interest my kids have had over the years I would be rich in seldom used stuff and poor in the pocketbook. I step in when I can tell the equipment is impeding the learning and enjoyment. So again thanks for your thoughts and keep them coming. By the way I am slowly collecting various metal and steel objects that he can weld together, so he is getting anxious for something to use. I am looking forward to him learning a skill that can benefit him over a lifetime and plan on doing my own learning. thanks -tnscouter

tndrbstr: Thank you for your offer. Unfortunately I am on the other side of the state although I get up your way four or five times a year.

Even though we couldn't benefit directly from your offer my son did get to witness a very generous act from a stranger and was quite surprised. I told him that things like that weren't uncommon on this site and that I had learned not to be surprised anymore by the generosity of so many people on this forum.

So again thank you for your kind offer. The next time I am headed up that way maybe we can go have a beer or two together my treat. thanks -tnscouter

You sound like a great dad. Your son is lucky to have you around. Good luck to you and your son with this, it is good to have interests that you can both enjoy and learn from. I'd suggest also seeing if the high school offers welding as a class as well. I remember starting out about your sons age (13)and burning rod after rod and enjoying every minute of it....

Another thing that I should add about renting or buying bottles, is that with new bottles, 30 months of renting paid for the bottles. miles

Both of our local welding shops will sell you used bottles. Then you just swap them out when you need gas.

They will do that locally here, but they are small cylinders. I use "K" oxygen cylinders which are about 250 CF and they will not sell them are refill them. The same with the "C" size acetylene cylinder and "K" size argon those are rental only.
A lot of "K" and "C" cylinders I have seen for sale in classifieds if purchased, they will not be refilled

Do some on-line pricing then keep a close watch on craigslist...and pawnshops.

Wherever "here" is, it's one weird area,....with no remote resemblance to the rest of this great country.
A LOT of old hands here have never heard, or encountered this kinda' horsechit before.

GTC

BS....

Geeze...the op asks about inexpensive mig for his kid & you guys end up in a pizzing match about rental/owner tanks...maybe the kid has already learned a little bit about running a flame...the thing is, he wants to give mig a go...my vote goes to the kid...

I'm with Greg on this one. I have 'exchanged' about every size with no hassles at many vendors. I think Greg may have worked more places than the average guy too!

Things have changed I do this all over the country and if the bigger bottles didn't come from the WS (over 150 CF) they will not fill them even will proof of ownership. The RR bought a bunch of K bottles from Praxair and are pissed when the new rules went into effect because they can not refill them at just any WS any more.

Just off the blower with Phoenix Welding supply's STAR depot.

They say this is complete horsechit, simply not true.

Will be in touch with Praxair directly, and report back.

GTC

Looks like somebody blew smoke in the wrong direction.

Just off the blower with a Praxair regional manager,...
we had a pretty good laugh about this particular flight of rumor mill fantasy, and rang off in agreement that if team of malevolent corporate villains wanted to completely disable their client's productive capacity,implementing such a ridiculous policy would be just the ticket.

With all due respect and admiration for seeing a fine dad's effort to provide quality life skills for his son,....and with an apology to MFM for disturbing HIS equilibrium, I'll just comment that this particular rumor mongering / wazoo smoke blowing episode DID evince some serious concern here. Given some of the crazier chit we've seen OSHA, TSA, EPA, and other beaureocraps pull, it WAS worth pursuing.

Owner bottles in all the conventional sizes we know and love ARE, and will continue to be available from our regular suppliers.

.....anything else you're hearing is rank, and laughable disinformation,....best disregarded

GTC

Not really, I actually deal in situations where both sides of this argument could be taken as valid.
But then, heaven forbid, both sides would have to be wrong to some extent,.. some just couldn't stand for that...

Wheeew!

Glad we got that cleared up. I'm sure plenty of readers were anxiously awaiting the results on this one.

Back on track and to the OP.

You may want to consider one of the Miller "entry level" 120 volt machines as a starter but you didn't say what he wants to weld.

One of the guys in the shop made good money building car/utility trailers on the side using one. They have some limitations but can do the job.

Lemme tell ya about "the shop" before someone starts another pissing match about the machine or his qualifications.

EVERYBODY IN THE SHOP is 6G certified as well having to deliver weldments that will pass an X-Ray or ultrasound test on a daily basis. These are the minimum requirements and most of the guys hold US Navy certs and higher.

The Miller machines are nice little units for smallish jobs. JMHO

Funny you should mention my equilibrium...I don't know what to hell caused it to act up but YOU had nothing to do with it...

Maybe the next time JWP has a problem with getting his own tanks filled, he'll know to get on the horn to the regional manager...I suppose there's a whole bunch of folks out there that actually believe what the "sales counter" people tell them...

None of MY suppliers in town will out right sell any tank 100 or over. They will not as a rule fill any tank 100 or over that their company doesn't have listed on their books as rented of leased. two of my main suppliers are Airgas and Holston Oxygen (ever hear of these? they are national companys).I can give anyone their number if they want to check it out for themselves. The only walk in tanks they will fill or swap is 80 and under.

An independent down the road will fill anything that's rolled on the dock with no questions asked. He might even sell you a little crack while your there if you want it.

I can't comment on what others experiences are because the fact is I don't know.

If you had much of an idea how a major business work you'd know that the "sales counter" people don't make those policies, they just follow them...

Maybe the next time you wash cross's balls you should take the time to message massage that dimple out of your forehead

*****
edited to correct spelling for MiddleFork Miner...

He should be worried more about that dent in his forhead more than my misspelling....

I'll tell ya' what, gents,...

all this nonsense blowing around here today will have not one WHIT's effect on the FACT, that THOUSANDS of K size owner cylinders that will roll out on hundreds of welding gas supplier's docks and be rotated for full ones. Happy contented, productive American welders will haul them home to Farms, Docks, Factories, and put the contents to use.

I'm paying U.S. $30.00 for an O2 K ,...today's price.

....and RENTING cylinders , as opposed to purchasing them, will remain the cretin's choice.

GTC

Fixed it for ya...I don't have to wash anybodys balls to know chit from shineola...

As we both know in the real world the first part of your post is true...

As to the last part, No it's not always a choice for everyone when dealing in the larger cylinders...

I just swapped two large bottles 2 weeks ago at Mathesons. Did one at Phoenix welding a month before that. Not a problem at all. Maybe it is just an Arizona thing, I don't know.

Reading your posts is quite an eye opener,having done so at some length, and having thought about a reasonable, well thought out, polite response,.....all I can come up with is amazement that some people will sell other people Bic Lighters or safety matches.

If one were going to make an observation about the welding gas INDUSTRY, ...it would be that it's in their best interest to police themselves. It will be damned interesting to see why the players in E.Tenn. are that uptight about larger cylinders,....and flat EASY to get feedback regarding the rationale behind their call.

GTC

Cross, I do work for a several national companies with local divisions in E TN as well as through out the south east and beyond. I have learned not question the rules and policies of any of them. And believe me, some of them just don't make sense to me at all.
But they are what they are. And if I want to keep doing business with them or cashing their checks I just have to dot their I's and cross their T's any way they want them done. It's really no big deal to me, I've learned to play the game pretty well over the years.
I could have a dozen oxygen tanks with a suppliers name on the collar, and all I need to do to keep them all filled is just show a lease on one of them.

I did get to chat a couple of days ago with the district manager of one of the suppliers that I mentioned earlier. They are also a customer of mine. I've done fabrication work for them that's been shipped to their facilities all over the south and as far north as Illinois.
They just bought two new tank delivery trucks for here locally that they want me to do a few modifications for them.

Theses guys can get anyone they want to do their fab work for them. That's their business is to supply welding and fab shops, as well as the medical field and such. And when they want something done the first person the call is me. That ain't no BS that's just a fact.

Don't take what I'm saying the wrong way, cause I'm NOT saying that I think I'm the best there ever was, or that I think that I am any better at what I do than anyone one else out there. Cause that's not what I'm saying. But I don't do this schitt just for the fun of it either.


He just pretty much confirmed what I already knew.

One exception he did say they generally make is for the out of town welding crews that service the fuel bulk tanks in the area. The town I live in is a holding and distribution center for petroleum that is pumped under ground out of Texas and other places. Each facility usually has there own corporate based welders and fitters that travel for that particular company. They generally don't require them to have an in house lease but they do have to have the proper paper work for their tanks. A hand written bill of sale won't cut it.



anyways...

I hope you and Gracy take care and have a great New Year.

I called Prxair in Baton Rouge and asked if they would refill customer owned "K" bottles with proof of purchase and they said yes. I then said "so if I am working in Baton Rouge you will refill bottles purchased from air gas with proof of purchase" and he back tracked.

Al I said from the beginning is if you purchase a bottle over 150 CF be sure that you can get it refilled and this is good advice.

I probable don't know what I'm talking about because I've only been welding for living for 45 years this year.

New Year's Eve