Apple has Posted the message below, in response to Government demands that they hack the San Bernardino terrorists phones. What do we think?
February 16, 2016 "A Message to Our Customers The United States government has demanded that Apple take an unprecedented step which threatens the security of our customers. We oppose this order, which has implications far beyond the legal case at hand.
This moment calls for public discussion, and we want our customers and people around the country to understand what is at stake.
The Need for Encryption Smartphones, led by iPhone, have become an essential part of our lives. People use them to store an incredible amount of personal information, from our private conversations to our photos, our music, our notes, our calendars and contacts, our financial information and health data, even where we have been and where we are going.
All that information needs to be protected from hackers and criminals who want to access it, steal it, and use it without our knowledge or permission. Customers expect Apple and other technology companies to do everything in our power to protect their personal information, and at Apple we are deeply committed to safeguarding their data.
Compromising the security of our personal information can ultimately put our personal safety at risk. That is why encryption has become so important to all of us.
For many years, we have used encryption to protect our customers’ personal data because we believe it’s the only way to keep their information safe. We have even put that data out of our own reach, because we believe the contents of your iPhone are none of our business.
The San Bernardino Case We were shocked and outraged by the deadly act of terrorism in San Bernardino last December. We mourn the loss of life and want justice for all those whose lives were affected. The FBI asked us for help in the days following the attack, and we have worked hard to support the government’s efforts to solve this horrible crime. We have no sympathy for terrorists.
When the FBI has requested data that’s in our possession, we have provided it. Apple complies with valid subpoenas and search warrants, as we have in the San Bernardino case. We have also made Apple engineers available to advise the FBI, and we’ve offered our best ideas on a number of investigative options at their disposal.
We have great respect for the professionals at the FBI, and we believe their intentions are good. Up to this point, we have done everything that is both within our power and within the law to help them. But now the U.S. government has asked us for something we simply do not have, and something we consider too dangerous to create. They have asked us to build a backdoor to the iPhone.
Specifically, the FBI wants us to make a new version of the iPhone operating system, circumventing several important security features, and install it on an iPhone recovered during the investigation. In the wrong hands, this software — which does not exist today — would have the potential to unlock any iPhone in someone’s physical possession.
The FBI may use different words to describe this tool, but make no mistake: Building a version of iOS that bypasses security in this way would undeniably create a backdoor. And while the government may argue that its use would be limited to this case, there is no way to guarantee such control.
The Threat to Data Security Some would argue that building a backdoor for just one iPhone is a simple, clean-cut solution. But it ignores both the basics of digital security and the significance of what the government is demanding in this case.
In today’s digital world, the “key” to an encrypted system is a piece of information that unlocks the data, and it is only as secure as the protections around it. Once the information is known, or a way to bypass the code is revealed, the encryption can be defeated by anyone with that knowledge.
The government suggests this tool could only be used once, on one phone. But that’s simply not true. Once created, the technique could be used over and over again, on any number of devices. In the physical world, it would be the equivalent of a master key, capable of opening hundreds of millions of locks — from restaurants and banks to stores and homes. No reasonable person would find that acceptable.
The government is asking Apple to hack our own users and undermine decades of security advancements that protect our customers — including tens of millions of American citizens — from sophisticated hackers and cybercriminals. The same engineers who built strong encryption into the iPhone to protect our users would, ironically, be ordered to weaken those protections and make our users less safe.
We can find no precedent for an American company being forced to expose its customers to a greater risk of attack. For years, cryptologists and national security experts have been warning against weakening encryption. Doing so would hurt only the well-meaning and law-abiding citizens who rely on companies like Apple to protect their data. Criminals and bad actors will still encrypt, using tools that are readily available to them.
A Dangerous Precedent Rather than asking for legislative action through Congress, the FBI is proposing an unprecedented use of the All Writs Act of 1789 to justify an expansion of its authority.
The government would have us remove security features and add new capabilities to the operating system, allowing a passcode to be input electronically. This would make it easier to unlock an iPhone by “brute force,” trying thousands or millions of combinations with the speed of a modern computer.
The implications of the government’s demands are chilling. If the government can use the All Writs Act to make it easier to unlock your iPhone, it would have the power to reach into anyone’s device to capture their data. The government could extend this breach of privacy and demand that Apple build surveillance software to intercept your messages, access your health records or financial data, track your location, or even access your phone’s microphone or camera without your knowledge.
Opposing this order is not something we take lightly. We feel we must speak up in the face of what we see as an overreach by the U.S. government.
We are challenging the FBI’s demands with the deepest respect for American democracy and a love of our country. We believe it would be in the best interest of everyone to step back and consider the implications.
While we believe the FBI’s intentions are good, it would be wrong for the government to force us to build a backdoor into our products. And ultimately, we fear that this demand would undermine the very freedoms and liberty our government is meant to protect.
I'm proud Apple is standing up to them. I can't believe the conservatives here are so quick to give government complete control over all aspects of their lives in the name of safety.
I'm proud Apple is standing up to them. I can't believe the conservatives here are so quick to give government complete control over all aspects of their lives in the name of safety.
W T H are you talking about?
Nobody here has defended the government's pressure on Apple.
Apple is protecting their sales to the ISIS demographic.
Apple is marketing to people like me who like our privacy.
I believe the Swiss should have told the good old US government to f' off when our government demanded that the bankers cough up the names of US citizens with accounts.
I'm proud Apple is standing up to them. I can't believe the conservatives here are so quick to give government complete control over all aspects of their lives in the name of safety.
W T H are you talking about?
Nobody here has defended the government's pressure on Apple.
Actually, I also read your response about protecting their ISIS customer base as being on the side of .gov, too. Kinda confused me 'cause you're not exactly a facist lover...
The Feds should be applauded for letting unvetted terrorists into the country (Apple did?), summarily defunded and all employees sent home for doing such a good job.....and proclaim from home to do what they couldn't do with the same act with an agency that didn't exist (and obviously wouldn't) for over a hundred years from 1789....
Feds should hand over phone over to Apple. Let their techs retrieve whatever is on phone and turn that info over to feds. No way should Apple create a back door for the Feds.
"In an ironic twist, however, the FBI didn’t ask the court to order Apple to unlock the phone, but merely to help the FBI in its bruteforce attempts to unlock the device on its own"
As others have said, once that backdoor exists Pandora's Box has been opened.
Apple is withholding info in a criminal investigation. No ifs, ands or buts about that.
No, apple does not have the info. Apple made the phone.
The dirty Muslim and his fugly wife had an apple phone which the government now owns. The info is in the phone.
The government is demanding that a private US entity take its valuable time and create a program to help the government unlock a phone owned by the government. Then the government will undoubtedly take the program and have it to use on any phone it comes in possession of, with or WITHOUT a court order. The government is like a teenage boy telling a girl that they just want to put the tip in.
Feds should hand over phone over to Apple. Let their techs retrieve whatever is on phone and turn that info over to feds. No way should Apple create a back door for the Feds.
That is exactly what Apple has been asked to do and Apple or its CEO is refusing do so. On this phone only!
Keep in mind this is not "the Feds" who are asking for this information, they had to go in front of a judge and prove probable cause that their was information on the phone related to additional individuals that are in some way engaged in criminal activities. The judge agreed with the Feds and issued the court order that Apple turn over information stored on the phone. Apple has two choices, turn over the information or someone at Apple is going to jail. Judges really get their panties in a twist if you ignore or deny their request for information.
Around here a corporation can't let in criminals, known or unknown without recourse.
No one is cheering for one side or the other when it comes to breaking the law or refusing to be held accountable; at the very least, no one at a corporation can force people to buy or fund their corporation unless the government (and panty twisted judges) forces them to do so.....
We'd be lucky if the government was ran as well as Enron....
You give the Government an inch and the will take the whole ruler. Good for Apple, if I was the FBI I would be ashamed to admit I couldn't hack an IPHONE. Says a lot about the FBI
I've been in the cyber security field for 20 years. If a company puts in a "backdoor" for some agency to exploit to get around the encryption, the bad guys will soon enough figure out how to do it also, including terrorists. They may think they are gaining security by being able to mine for criminal data in the short run, but in the long run, there will just be less security because of it.
Feds should hand over phone over to Apple. Let their techs retrieve whatever is on phone and turn that info over to feds. No way should Apple create a back door for the Feds.
That is exactly what Apple has been asked to do and Apple or its CEO is refusing do so. On this phone only!
No, they have been asked to create a new operating system that can be installed on this phone and then allow the Feds to use it.
That's a whole lot different than giving the phone to apple and they crack it, dump the data onto a Zip drive and hand the Zip drive over after incinerating the phone to ensure the government doesn't get the new back door operating system.
I don't remember the who, what, when, but a couple years back an encryption outfit went out of business because the feds were asking for a key. They did not comply also because they simply could not. Only the customer has the key. Providing such would have ended their business anyway. If Apple caves, everyone that uses their system should sue and win. If Apple can crack it, then their system was a complete failure
The government can not assure our privacy, so I think it's great that maybe the private sector can.
NSA should know every number that was dialed. Let them work from that end.
Apple is protecting their sales to the ISIS demographic.
Apple is marketing to people like me who like our privacy.
I believe the Swiss should have told the good old US government to f' off when our government demanded that the bankers cough up the names of US citizens with accounts.
The goobermint lets in radicals that kills Americans whether by ineptness or design.
Now they use this as an excuse to destroy the civil rights of American's, either as a recourse of a lack of actionable human intel, or just taking advantage of the situation.
[bleep] the administration.
Seal the borders, be proactive in vetting immigrants, and stop being pussy's in the foreign intel arena and you won't have to piss on the rights of your citizens.
That's a whole lot different than giving the phone to apple and they crack it, dump the data onto a Zip drive and hand the Zip drive over after incinerating the phone to ensure the government doesn't get the new back door operating system.
This is what should be done with this particular phone, after receiving a court order. No blanket government order at all in play. miles
The goobermint lets in radicals that kills Americans whether by ineptness or design.
Now they use this as an excuse to destroy the civil rights of American's, either as a recourse of a lack of actionable human intel, or just taking advantage of the situation.
[bleep] the administration.
Seal the borders, be proactive in vetting immigrants, and stop being pussy's in the foreign intel arena and you won't have to piss on the rights of your citizens.
That's a whole lot different than giving the phone to apple and they crack it, dump the data onto a Zip drive and hand the Zip drive over after incinerating the phone to ensure the government doesn't get the new back door operating system.
This is what should be done with this particular phone, after receiving a court order. No blanket government order at all in play. miles
That would be ok, maybe,...except apple doesn't have a way to retrieve the information, and they don't want to design a way
It's not that the Feds want Apple to hack the phones. It's that the Feds want to have Apple turn over to the Feds the encryption software and all the rest of the data security features of the Apple devices so the FEDS can then hack the phones.
Apple is saying no.
If the Feds got that information, they could then - whenever they chose to do so - hack any Apple device they wanted to.
Also, to date Apple has been FAR more secure with it's information from data breaches than has the Feds (i.e., the Feds could lose control of that information, further compromising Apple security and the security of Apple devices).
If the Feds wanted the data from the phones, they have the legal authority to have Apple hack the phones and turn over the data. That's not what the Feds are asking for; they want the information from Apple on how to hack Apple devices.
That's a whole lot different than giving the phone to apple and they crack it, dump the data onto a Zip drive and hand the Zip drive over after incinerating the phone to ensure the government doesn't get the new back door operating system.
This is what should be done with this particular phone, after receiving a court order. No blanket government order at all in play. miles
That would be ok, maybe,...except apple doesn't have a way to retrieve the information, and they don't want to design a way
Apple can get that information off of the phone, and will if they are asked to do exactly that. The Feds aren't asking them for that; they want to be able to hack Apple devices themselves.
Apple has already "opened" over seventy other phones for LE agencies prior to this. All apple has to do is take the phone, crack the code, mine the data and give it to the FBI. Lose the tinfoil...
Apple has already "opened" over seventy other phones for LE agencies prior to this. All apple has to do is take the phone, crack the code, mine the data and give it to the FBI. Lose the tinfoil...
What really hits me about this damned situation: We The People have lost ALL FAITH AND TRUST in OUR GOVERNMENT! No[actually hell no]I'm not a conspiracy theorist as I know it's an impossibility that all of the .gov could never get on the same page to conspire, but some alphabet agencies have proven that they can't handle having the power.
I've never bought an Apple product but glad to see they stood up to big brother.
Let's try a theoretical...that could easily turn into a reality...
What if down the road we have another terrorist attack?
What about a swarm of attacks?
Use whatever theoretical number you wish for the number dead.
What if the terrorists are apprehended & when their phone records are checked, it comes to light they were in contact with some of the same individuals tied to the duo in San Bernardino??? Wouldn't Apple be culpable??? Isn't it still law that felons lose their civil rights??? Once a person is dead, do they still have a "rights" especially after these dead people were responsible for multiple murders???
Who will blame either this president or the next for not doing their job at protecting America???
Apple has already "opened" over seventy other phones for LE agencies prior to this. All apple has to do is take the phone, crack the code, mine the data and give it to the FBI. Lose the tinfoil...
If that was the request, Apple would do so. That's not the request. The FBI wants the info on how to "open" the Apple devices, crack the code, and mine the data. Big, big difference.
Apple has already "opened" over seventy other phones for LE agencies prior to this. All apple has to do is take the phone, crack the code, mine the data and give it to the FBI. Lose the tinfoil...
If that was the request, Apple would do so. That's not the request. The FBI wants the info on how to "open" the Apple devices, crack the code, and mine the data. Big, big difference.
My understanding is that if you enter the wrong four digit code more than ten times in a short (computer generated) timeframe the device will erase all stored data. The FBI wants to turn off that function so they can crack the lock code.
The phone in question is a government phone. The FBI can (and most likely already has) get a list of contacts from the cellular service provider.
I understand that...I don't have a smart phone & I'm technologically ignorant about what data they can retrieve via phone records...that said, can these records the provider has show websites visited, posts on websites or emails sent?
Do dead terrorists really have civil rights protections?
Apple has already "opened" over seventy other phones for LE agencies prior to this. All apple has to do is take the phone, crack the code, mine the data and give it to the FBI. Lose the tinfoil...
If that was the request, Apple would do so. That's not the request. The FBI wants the info on how to "open" the Apple devices, crack the code, and mine the data. Big, big difference.
My understanding is that if you enter the wrong four digit code more than ten times in a short (computer generated) timeframe the device will erase all stored data. The FBI wants to turn off that function so they can crack the lock code.
Apple phones do not erase data. What they do, is they've built in incremental pauses of 1, 5, 15 minutes, 1 hour, etc, which defeats the code program. Sean you are correct, I suspect they will reach a compromise as they've done this over 70 times previously.
You'll find several settings and options: Turn Passcode Off. Change your passcode. Enter a new, six-digit passcode. Or tap Passcode Options to switch to a four-digit numeric code, a custom numeric code, or a custom alphanumeric code. Require Passcode—Immediately: By default, as soon as you lock your screen, you'll need to enter your passcode to unlock it. If you don't want to need your passcode immediately, change this setting. Allow Access When Locked: Allow access to some features when your device is locked, including Notifications View, Siri, and Control Center. Erase Data: Choose whether to erase your device automatically after ten failed passcode attempts.
Apple has already "opened" over seventy other phones for LE agencies prior to this. All apple has to do is take the phone, crack the code, mine the data and give it to the FBI. Lose the tinfoil...
If that was the request, Apple would do so. That's not the request. The FBI wants the info on how to "open" the Apple devices, crack the code, and mine the data. Big, big difference.
My understanding is that if you enter the wrong four digit code more than ten times in a short (computer generated) timeframe the device will erase all stored data. The FBI wants to turn off that function so they can crack the lock code.
COrrect...Apple will have to create an algorithmn to crack the four digit code . They can then access the data within the phone. internet sites visited,messages, text etc etc. If our government gets the program everyone will have it in a matter of days.
You'll find several settings and options: Turn Passcode Off. Change your passcode. Enter a new, six-digit passcode. Or tap Passcode Options to switch to a four-digit numeric code, a custom numeric code, or a custom alphanumeric code. Require Passcode—Immediately: By default, as soon as you lock your screen, you'll need to enter your passcode to unlock it. If you don't want to need your passcode immediately, change this setting. Allow Access When Locked: Allow access to some features when your device is locked, including Notifications View, Siri, and Control Center. Erase Data: [b]Choose whether to erase your device automatically after ten failed passcode attempts.[/B]
You'll find several settings and options: Turn Passcode Off. Change your passcode. Enter a new, six-digit passcode. Or tap Passcode Options to switch to a four-digit numeric code, a custom numeric code, or a custom alphanumeric code. Require Passcode—Immediately: By default, as soon as you lock your screen, you'll need to enter your passcode to unlock it. If you don't want to need your passcode immediately, change this setting. Allow Access When Locked: Allow access to some features when your device is locked, including Notifications View, Siri, and Control Center. Erase Data: [b]Choose whether to erase your device automatically after ten failed passcode attempts.[/B]
Oh, choose, otherwise the default is as I described (that I obtained from listening to Rush. If that is the case, the program that attacks the phone by constantly inputting permutations, would not work after ten tries
The phone in question is a government phone. The FBI can (and most likely already has) get a list of contacts from the cellular service provider.
I understand that...I don't have a smart phone & I'm technologically ignorant about what data they can retrieve via phone records...that said, can these records the provider has show websites visited, posts on websites or emails sent?
Do dead terrorists really have civil rights protections?
This is not about the civil rights of a dead terrorist. It's about the civil rights of everyone with an Apple device. As I understand it,the government isn't just demanding the information on this one phone.They are demanding a way to access information on every Apple phone.
This is not about the civil rights of a dead terrorist. It's about the civil rights of everyone with an Apple device. As I understand it,the government isn't just demanding the information on this one phone.They are demanding a way to access information on every Apple phone.
They'd be a busybunchofmotherfuckers trying to unlock & retrieve all that data...wouldn't they have to have physical possession of the phone???
This is not about the civil rights of a dead terrorist. It's about the civil rights of everyone with an Apple device. As I understand it,the government isn't just demanding the information on this one phone.They are demanding a way to access information on every Apple phone.
They'd be a busybunchofmotherfuckers trying to unlock & retrieve all that data...wouldn't they have to have physical possession of the phone???
iphone data is backed up on icloud. Depends on the user to what they choose to backup (photos, music, contacts, documents...). Once you have their code you can also access their cloud.
Apple has already "opened" over seventy other phones for LE agencies prior to this. All apple has to do is take the phone, crack the code, mine the data and give it to the FBI. Lose the tinfoil...
What really hits me about this damned situation: We The People have lost ALL FAITH AND TRUST in OUR GOVERNMENT! No[actually hell no]I'm not a conspiracy theorist as I know it's an impossibility that all of the .gov could never get on the same page to conspire, but some alphabet agencies have proven that they can't handle having the power.
I absolutely agree, it is a sad state of affairs that there is actually reason for folks to now feel this way, myself included. But we should never be forced into allowing them to look into our Underwear Drawer any time they like. The verbiage of "If you have nothing to hide..." should not go so far as to allow access to everyone's Underwear Drawer Stains or not. There has got to be a limit to it or we are no longer a Free Society.
This is not about the civil rights of a dead terrorist. It's about the civil rights of everyone with an Apple device. As I understand it,the government isn't just demanding the information on this one phone.They are demanding a way to access information on every Apple phone.
They'd be a busybunchofmotherfuckers trying to unlock & retrieve all that data...wouldn't they have to have physical possession of the phone???
iphone data is backed up on icloud. Depends on the user to what they choose to backup (photos, music, contacts, documents...). Once you have their code you can also access their cloud.
It is my understanding that the phones simply store digitized (encrypted) links which are the hooks that access digital data stored elsewhere (encrypted), that the phones themselves can't actually be mined. Listening to Rush this morning, he described how even your fingerprint (password override) is never 'photographed', but is rather, converted into digital code. (Which may or may not be another way of calling it a digital photo, I don't know.) I only know enough about this stuff to know that what the Whitehouse is putting out is ignorant nonsense, either because they are ignorant, or because they want us to believe this is nothing more than 'picking the lock' and opening the safe. (It's not!)
all data in the phone is encrypted, there will be messages, text, photos on the phone. They will get the Icloud email address and look in there but I cloud does not backup photos.
What really hits me about this damned situation: We The People have lost ALL FAITH AND TRUST in OUR GOVERNMENT!
Americans have never trusted our government. If we did then there would never have been a revolution or a civil war. Distrust of government is the reason there's a second amendment. Government is the natural enemy of freedom and must be limited, there are things government should never be given power over and this is one of those things.
As another poster mentioned, this is not about the civil rights of a terrorist, it's about the civil rights of millions of iPhone owners. In the big scheme of things that is MUCH more important than the FBI's investigation of one terrorist act. Just because the FBI and one judge wants something does not mean Apple should accommodate it, whether it's done under the color of law or not. This has the potential for huge amounts of abuse, it should rightly scare everyone.
As an example: Apple's CEO Tim Cook is a homosexual. What if Saudi Arabia decides to hang someone for homosexuality and wants to unlock their iPhone so they can get the names of his gay lovers. They get a judge to sign off on it & order Apple to do it. Should Apple comply? It's done under the color of law from a lawful government, so is it the right thing to do?
I wonder if the San Bernadino attack had occurred at Apple's headquarters and a couple of dozen Apple employees were the victims and that additional attacks (on Apple employees) were planned, would Tim Cook still wave the "customer privacy" flag?
The phone in question is a government phone. The FBI can (and most likely already has) get a list of contacts from the cellular service provider.
I understand that...I don't have a smart phone & I'm technologically ignorant about what data they can retrieve via phone records...that said, can these records the provider has show websites visited, posts on websites or emails sent?
Do dead terrorists really have civil rights protections?
This is not about the civil rights of a dead terrorist. It's about the civil rights of everyone with an Apple device. As I understand it,the government isn't just demanding the information on this one phone.They are demanding a way to access information on every Apple phone.
So, you are agreeing that if the 9/11 terrorists used Apple products, you'd support their right to privacy? I wonder if the families of the 3,000+ victims would agree?
Are you dense? It's not about the terrorists rights. It's about yours and mine. Once the program is created, they can use it on anyone's phone. Even if the gov't could keep the program from getting into the wrong hands, which is doubtful, China, or whoever else gets their hands on it, it will get out there in the "wild"
So, you are agreeing that if the 9/11 terrorists used Apple products, you'd support their right to privacy? I wonder if the families of the 3,000+ victims would agree?
Hmmm...I haven't been paying attention, but I kinda wonder how many Trump supporters that agreed with him about George Bush not protecting America on 9/11 also agree with Apples decision not to help...kind of a conundrum huh???
So, you are agreeing that if the 9/11 terrorists used Apple products, you'd support their right to privacy? I wonder if the families of the 3,000+ victims would agree?
Sooo many cowards trying to trade a little bit of freedom.....if it will save just one life.....it's for the children...if you have nothing to hide...
I would rather we as nation suffer an attack of the scale of September 11th every month than than suffer the the death of freedom. Freedom is a dim glow mostly in our past at this point but cowards are rushing to extinguish even that little glow. Tim Cook and I would disagree on just about everything but he's right in this and he's not a complete coward and a surrender monkey. If you support the government in this then you are the people who Ben Franklin was writing.
The phone in question is a government phone. The FBI can (and most likely already has) get a list of contacts from the cellular service provider.
I understand that...I don't have a smart phone & I'm technologically ignorant about what data they can retrieve via phone records...that said, can these records the provider has show websites visited, posts on websites or emails sent?
Do dead terrorists really have civil rights protections?
This is not about the civil rights of a dead terrorist. It's about the civil rights of everyone with an Apple device. As I understand it,the government isn't just demanding the information on this one phone.They are demanding a way to access information on every Apple phone.
So, you are agreeing that if the 9/11 terrorists used Apple products, you'd support their right to privacy? I wonder if the families of the 3,000+ victims would agree?
Not at all but the feds don't just want into that particular phone. They want Apple to redesign less secure so they can easily defeat the security on any of their phones.
It's not a case of not letting the feds into a terrorist house to search.It's as if they wanted a key to every house so they could search anytime they wanted.
If I understand what I've read about this iPhone issue with Apple, they are asking Apple to unlock the phone to retrieve data from two terrorists who had possession of the phone. The phone belongs to the terrorist's employer and they are ok with it. The Feds belief the data wipe feature is turned on and will destroy the data after 10 attempts to unlock phone, thus asking for Apple's help. I don't personally see a problem with this.
The FBI are asking for a back door into the phone bypassing the lock code. Also there's a code to unlock the key code that encrypts the data on the phone which they'd have to aquire. Otherwise they would have encrypted data with no means of decryption.
Once the FBI had the back door they could access anyone's else's phone without any constraints.
Odie, appreciate the very civil reply and explanation with Apple and this iPhone. I'm not very modern in my understanding of all things technical in this new computer age. I was at the apple store having my phone checked out last week and just seeing what a bunch of kid's could do with my phone was a bit eye opening for an old man. If they can do what they where doing with my phone, I can't believe they can't or aren't already doing what the Fed's want already anyway. I'm not sure I would trust apple anymore than the Fed's for that matter. The Fed's can pretty much get any and all files, paperwork, records they want with a court issued subpoena, not sure what would be different with encrypted phone data.
The FBI are asking for a back door into the phone bypassing the lock code. Also there's a code to unlock the key code that encrypts the data on the phone which they'd have to aquire. Otherwise they would have encrypted data with no means of decryption.
Once the FBI had the back door they could access anyone's else's phone without any constraints.
So in other words, they need physical possession of the phone and would need physical possession of any other phone where they wanted to decrypt the content...& unless a person gives them permission, they'd need a search warrant...
If the files weren't saved to icloud then yes you need the phone and the four digit unlock code. If the files in the phone are encrypted then you also need the eight digit (plus) passcode.
I wonder if the San Bernadino attack had occurred at Apple's headquarters and a couple of dozen Apple employees were the victims and that additional attacks (on Apple employees) were planned, would Tim Cook still wave the "customer privacy" flag?
Perhaps.
Either that or they would be asking why TF is a government importing criminals to blow up people asking to erode freedoms, violating the law, oaths and spending money to bring on crime unabated. To make an awesome clean up crew?
I'm sure if the local city council dropped a few dozen MS-13 members into the local trailer park I'm sure no one would question what the local PD would have to do to "fix" the ensuing problems....
Jesus.
Create the problem to create the "solution"; apparently its working.
I wonder if the San Bernadino attack had occurred at Apple's headquarters and a couple of dozen Apple employees were the victims and that additional attacks (on Apple employees) were planned, would Tim Cook still wave the "customer privacy" flag?
Perhaps.
Either that or they would be asking why TF is a government importing criminals to blow up people asking to erode freedoms, violating the law, oaths and spending money to bring on crime unabated. To make an awesome clean up crew?
I'm sure if the local city council dropped a few dozen MS-13 members into the local trailer park I'm sure no one would question what the local PD would have to do to "fix" the ensuing problems....
Jesus.
Create the problem to create the "solution"; apparently its working.
This ^^^
Someone is awake here. We are being played, We have been played for a good many years now. History and the true order of "Cause and effect" events and actions that lead up to where we are now is what they are not teaching in School.
Truth is we started the whole Middle East conflict for Private Oil Companies in the first place. The U.S. and England threw the first blow out of pure greed that has now Snowballed into the Radical Extremist situation we are in now.
Not to Defend but we really did stick our nose where it did not belong in 1953. The results of this action has been milked and milked ever since to gain more power over the People. We are being taken as fools and most are inept enough to let it happen.
It's not at all about Safety it's about Money. Nothing Sells Product and Services better than Fear and when Business slows down more Fear must be created to get sales back up again. It's deceptive high pressure Salesmanship at it's best.
If the files weren't saved to icloud then yes you need the phone and the four digit unlock code. If the files in the phone are encrypted then you also need the eight digit (plus) passcode.
So what's the problem??? I thought the govt. already had a site where they were collecting and storing data...wasn't it in Utah??? Isn't that what all the stink about Edward Snowden was all about?
If the data they're trying to retrieve is ONLY in the phone in question & the only way to unlock that phone is by having physical possession of it, what's the problem???
Lets say hillarys phone was an apple...what then??? Would everybody still think she had the right to privacy???
Trump is an idiot, he either doesn't understand the can of worms he's trying to open, or he's just another evil POS who doesn't care.
This whole thing isn't about ONE phone, once that phone is cracked (regardless of how they do it), that means the FBI will now have access to any phone it wants in the world.
You'd have to be quite the puzzy to give up your personal privacy because you're afraid of terrorists.
Trump is an idiot, he either doesn't understand the can of worms he's trying to open, or he's just another evil POS who doesn't care.
This whole thing isn't about ONE phone, once that phone is cracked (regardless of how they do it), that means the FBI will now have access to any phone it wants in the world.
You'd have to be quite the puzzy to give up your personal privacy because you're afraid of terrorists.
At some point there needs to be a line drawn. What's next after this? They are not going to be satisfied and stop here. At some point enough is enough. At the rate they are pushing it won't be long before mandatory DNA Swabs on Kindergarteners in search for the "Terrorist Genome" is a Reality.
Trump is an idiot, he either doesn't understand the can of worms he's trying to open, or he's just another evil POS who doesn't care.
This whole thing isn't about ONE phone, once that phone is cracked (regardless of how they do it), that means the FBI will now have access to any phone it wants in the world.
You'd have to be quite the puzzy to give up your personal privacy because you're afraid of terrorists.
At some point there needs to be a line drawn. What's next after this? They are not going to be satisfied and stop here. At some point enough is enough. At the rate they are pushing it won't be long before mandatory DNA Swabs on Kindergarteners in search for the "Terrorist Genome" is a Reality.
"Apple is fighting the FBI over a court order requiring the tech giant to unlock a terrorist’s iPhone — but it appears the company had no problem breaking into at least 70 other protected smartphones.
The California-based tech giant unlocked dozens of iPhones at federal investigators’ requests between 2008 and 2015, a prosecutor argued last year.
Apple refused to unlock an iPhone that belonged to an accused New York meth dealer in October, months before CEO Tim Cook cited privacy concerns as he pushed back against a Tuesday court order to help FBI agents hack into a cellphone used by San Bernardino shooter Syed Farook.
APPLE UNLOCK RULING EXPLAINED: WHAT YOU NEED TO KNOW
The October refusal bewildered New York prosecutors, who claimed the iPhone maker “complied” with at least 70 other requests to unlock suspects’ phones, Motherboard reported at the time. Each request was made under the All Writs Act, a 1789 statute that grants federal courts broad power to issue "necessary or appropriate" writs.
“(Apple) had an established procedure to routinely take any of these requests, comply with them, processing them,” Assistant U.S. Attorney Saritha Komatireddy said in court.
While Apple lawyers did not object to the claim, they insisted the 70 figure was a government estimate and not a number vetted by the tech company.
Apple unlocked at least 70 iPhones for the feds between 2008 and 2015, prosecutors said."
IMHO, morally and ethically, he's right. Legally, he's about to go to jail. The gov is going to make an example of him and that is a sad thing.
If the FBI wants the information so bad, let them crack it.
People forget that future administrations can, and will, use tools to defeat our rights.
Ed
No, he's not going to jail. Apple has no legal duty, on pain of incarceration, to cooperate. None whatsoever. And there is nothing the gubmint can do by way of criminal prosecution to force their hand. Kudos to Apple for taking a principled stand on this.
"Apple is fighting the FBI over a court order requiring the tech giant to unlock a terrorist’s iPhone — but it appears the company had no problem breaking into at least 70 other protected smartphones.
The California-based tech giant unlocked dozens of iPhones at federal investigators’ requests between 2008 and 2015, a prosecutor argued last year.
Apple refused to unlock an iPhone that belonged to an accused New York meth dealer in October, months before CEO Tim Cook cited privacy concerns as he pushed back against a Tuesday court order to help FBI agents hack into a cellphone used by San Bernardino shooter Syed Farook.
APPLE UNLOCK RULING EXPLAINED: WHAT YOU NEED TO KNOW
The October refusal bewildered New York prosecutors, who claimed the iPhone maker “complied” with at least 70 other requests to unlock suspects’ phones, Motherboard reported at the time. Each request was made under the All Writs Act, a 1789 statute that grants federal courts broad power to issue "necessary or appropriate" writs.
“(Apple) had an established procedure to routinely take any of these requests, comply with them, processing them,” Assistant U.S. Attorney Saritha Komatireddy said in court.
While Apple lawyers did not object to the claim, they insisted the 70 figure was a government estimate and not a number vetted by the tech company.
Apple unlocked at least 70 iPhones for the feds between 2008 and 2015, prosecutors said."
One could really go down the "Rabbit Hole" and say that Apple might have already looked at the data and found that it will be the CIA who ends up implicated in this. This just might make the decision a little bit tougher for them this time around.
"Apple is fighting the FBI over a court order requiring the tech giant to unlock a terrorist’s iPhone — but it appears the company had no problem breaking into at least 70 other protected smartphones.
The California-based tech giant unlocked dozens of iPhones at federal investigators’ requests between 2008 and 2015, a prosecutor argued last year.
Apple refused to unlock an iPhone that belonged to an accused New York meth dealer in October, months before CEO Tim Cook cited privacy concerns as he pushed back against a Tuesday court order to help FBI agents hack into a cellphone used by San Bernardino shooter Syed Farook.
APPLE UNLOCK RULING EXPLAINED: WHAT YOU NEED TO KNOW
The October refusal bewildered New York prosecutors, who claimed the iPhone maker “complied” with at least 70 other requests to unlock suspects’ phones, Motherboard reported at the time. Each request was made under the All Writs Act, a 1789 statute that grants federal courts broad power to issue "necessary or appropriate" writs.
“(Apple) had an established procedure to routinely take any of these requests, comply with them, processing them,” Assistant U.S. Attorney Saritha Komatireddy said in court.
While Apple lawyers did not object to the claim, they insisted the 70 figure was a government estimate and not a number vetted by the tech company.
Apple unlocked at least 70 iPhones for the feds between 2008 and 2015, prosecutors said."
Apples to oranges for almost all of those 70. The current encryption scheme and setup wasn't around in 2008, in fact it's only on the newest generation of phones. It's like saying your local locksmith unlocked your car, so why can't he unlock the bank vault?
"Apple is fighting the FBI over a court order requiring the tech giant to unlock a terrorist’s iPhone — but it appears the company had no problem breaking into at least 70 other protected smartphones.
The California-based tech giant unlocked dozens of iPhones at federal investigators’ requests between 2008 and 2015, a prosecutor argued last year.
Apple refused to unlock an iPhone that belonged to an accused New York meth dealer in October, months before CEO Tim Cook cited privacy concerns as he pushed back against a Tuesday court order to help FBI agents hack into a cellphone used by San Bernardino shooter Syed Farook.
APPLE UNLOCK RULING EXPLAINED: WHAT YOU NEED TO KNOW
The October refusal bewildered New York prosecutors, who claimed the iPhone maker “complied” with at least 70 other requests to unlock suspects’ phones, Motherboard reported at the time. Each request was made under the All Writs Act, a 1789 statute that grants federal courts broad power to issue "necessary or appropriate" writs.
“(Apple) had an established procedure to routinely take any of these requests, comply with them, processing them,” Assistant U.S. Attorney Saritha Komatireddy said in court.
While Apple lawyers did not object to the claim, they insisted the 70 figure was a government estimate and not a number vetted by the tech company.
Apple unlocked at least 70 iPhones for the feds between 2008 and 2015, prosecutors said."
That was older operating systems. Apple's new OS was made specifically to have a high level of encryption. The MARKET demanded it because no one trusts the US government. Gee, I wonder why?
That was older operating systems. Apple's new OS was made specifically to have a high level of encryption. The MARKET demanded it because no one trusts the US government. Gee, I wonder why?
99% wasn't about the government, it's about hackers and identity theft.
You can't set it up with access to one without having it be vulnerable to the other.
Right now the military is in the process of switching over from Blackberry's to Iphones for those phones it provides to its men/women...
So should these phones be so secure that even the military can't gain access to the content held in these phones that it provides?
What happens if there is a terrorist plant or sympathizer within the military with one of these phones taking pictures and data sending all to whom ever... should not the military have the ability to gain all knowledge of any information this person might have had, transferred, or who talked to when caught!
Exactly the same situation we're talking about right now, nothing more or less!
Not sure if any of the other phone manufacturers have included this lock or destroy feature on their phones, but haven't heard that any has.
Apparently they are the only ones, and just this morning said it wouldn't be hard to right the needed code into the software to bypass the feature!
Now whether any of you doom and gloomers actually believe that anything in your life today is secure. Its a new age and national security doesn't allow the privacy that we once had.
Right now the military is in the process of switching over from Blackberry's to Iphones for those phones it provides to its men/women...
So should these phones be so secure that even the military can't gain access to the content held in these phones that it provides?
Any company or military or gov't organization can mandate that an app is installed on a phone of any flavor that they provide which can provide them with a backdoor. They don't need the manufacturer to write in a back door. Employee or service person removes or disables the app and the company gets notified immediately and the violator is brought in for whatever punishment is necessary. Policy wise it's no different than a company mandating a company credit card can't be used for personal purchases even if the employee does pay it off themselves.
So if the County of San Bernardino had no knowledge of this feature when purchased and Apple didn't inform them of it... then they shouldn't be held liable to recover the information held on them?
NO, it's been common practice and law for many years that employees have no right to expect privacy on company computers and phones!
Apple has a responsibility here and it is in the best interest of national security, and to its corporate customers to follow through!
There's some, lets call them "technology gaps" in the new provided information.
On the 70 phones unlocked in the past, the actual number is up for debate, but not that they have done it, successfully. What's not understood, but implied above, is that these were old iPhones. The new iOS (the operating system in Apple products) doesn't work like that anymore. Apple simply can't get the data off this phone. Due to customer privacy demands recent iOS versions have more, tougher encryption, so best Apple MIGHT be able to do is grab encrypted files. Those are close to useless without the key. Now if Apple can get to the location the key is stored and read that, then bingo, but I according to the Apple techs, they can't do this any more.
The "wipe" feature is interesting. Typically when a file is deleted, it's not actually deleted. the operating system has essentially a table that says "file A is at location B", when you delete file "B" what normally happens is the table entry is removed and that piece of memory/disk is marked as "available". the data is still there until it is overwritten by something else. That is why "undelete" utilities work, they can piece it all back together.
If all the above is true, this particular phone is pretty much lost. They are not asking Apple to crack this phone, they are asking for a magical back door to bypass the unlock code protections, Given a 4 digit code, there's only 10,000 options, 6 digit code 1,000,000 options. If you disable the unlock protections, it's childs play to use brute force to try all options until you get in.
The issue is, in order to update the OS to do this, the Apple has to build this into the OS, then unlock the phone to upgrade it. See the problem now?
Additionally they want this as part of the OS, which means it's on every iPhone, iPad etc. Regardless of if you trust the government, do you trust the identity thiefs, the terrorist the hackers? Cause once out there, they all will try to crack it.
Now whether any of you doom and gloomers actually believe that anything in your life today is secure. Its a new age and national security doesn't allow the privacy that we once had.
Phil
We will never retain our rights if you just abdicate our responsibility to uphold the constitution.
...Regardless of if you trust the government, do you trust the identity thiefs, the terrorist the hackers? Cause once out there, they all will try to crack it.
Now there's the big threat. Every hacker in the world knows there's a back door to the OS, and they won't rest until they exploit it, putting every phone at risk.
