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plus interest...

To be appealed.

Ouch. Apparently they've been getting charged as little as 0.005% taxes by Ireland.

Course, Apple has much, much more than that in the bank (mostly in overseas banks to avoid US taxes), so it's not going to break them.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/08/30/eu_commission_rules_on_apple_ireland_tax_sweetheart_deal/
Quote
Updated: The European Commission has ruled that tax arrangements between Ireland and Apple were in breach of the EU's state aid laws, and said the American corporation needs to cough up €13bn in back taxes, plus interest.

Delivering her judgment in Brussels this morning, the EU's competition commissioner, Margrethe Vestager, said:

Member States cannot give tax benefits to selected companies – this is illegal under EU state aid rules. The Commission's investigation concluded that Ireland granted illegal tax benefits to Apple, which enabled it to pay substantially less tax than other businesses over many years. In fact, this selective treatment allowed Apple to pay an effective corporate tax rate of 1 per cent on its European profits in 2003 down to 0.005 per cent in 2014.

The European Commission (EC) launched its investigation into the tax arrangements between Apple and Ireland in 2014. Until now, Apple has managed to route almost 90 per cent of its profits outside of the US through its Irish subsidiaries, as they hold the rights to all of the company's intellectual property.

Vestager stressed that the €13bn, which Ireland must arrange to recover, was not a penalty but rather the sum of Apple’s unpaid taxes. The amount could be lessened if Apple’s Irish subsidiaries moved more money to their parent company in the US – where it would become subject to US corporation tax.

Apple's two incorporated companies in Ireland, Apple Sales International and Apple Operations Europe, were found to be fantasy organisations concocted between the Irish taxman and Cupertino which "did not correspond to economic reality: almost all sales profits recorded by the two companies were internally attributed to a 'head office'" which the commission found only existed on paper.
Apples should turn off all the Iphones and Ipads in Europe. Flash FU EU, on the screen and be done.
Hope Apple shuts down operations and leaves the EU holding the bag.
Originally Posted by RickyD
Apples should turn off all the Iphones and Ipads in Europe. Flash FU EU, on the screen and be done.


So, does that mean you think Apple shouldn't pay tax in the EU (or US), and should destroy their customers private property.

Not keen on your business model.
How much you want to bet the Fed's will look seriously at something similar to go after states that give tax breaks to corps. Can't have high tax states (D) competing with low tax ones (R).
The EU needs cash to bail out Greece.
Originally Posted by 12344mag
The EU needs cash to bail out Greece.

EU isn't collecting it, they say Ireland needs to collect it. Ireland is saying they don't want it, but EU says they still have to take it.

I'm guessing other companies have been complaining about Apple getting a sweet tax deal that they can't get. In that vein I kind of support the EU, governments shouldn't be picking who wins and who loses by subsidizing them.
Originally Posted by JSTUART
Originally Posted by RickyD
Apples should turn off all the Iphones and Ipads in Europe. Flash FU EU, on the screen and be done.


So, does that mean you think Apple shouldn't pay tax in the EU (or US), and should destroy their customers private property.

Not keen on your business model.
We're even. I'm not keen on the EU's.
So are they the azzhats responsible for this *#*#^*{+\'{^}%~{€ auto correct program?????

Auto correct is the bane of IPhones!!!
Originally Posted by kaywoodie
So are they the azzhats responsible for this *#*#^*{+\'{^}%~{€ auto correct program?????

Auto correct is the bane of IPhones!!!
Think of all the stress I avoid by NOT having one of those....


Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!
Originally Posted by kaywoodie

Auto correct is the bane of IPhones!!!


You know you can turn it off, don't you?

I don't turn mine off because I enjoy beotching about it too much! laugh
Originally Posted by kaywoodie
So are they the azzhats responsible for this *#*#^*{+\'{^}%~{€ auto correct program?????

Auto correct is the bane of IPhones!!!


You need to type in Irish, apparently.

They don't collect OR correct...
Apple is seen as a cash cow. The EU is devoid of money and legitimacy.
So Apple found out the hard way that setting up in another country to dodge taxes might bite you in the butt? Gee, I'm all broken up about that. I agree that the EU has significant issues, but a level playing field is what you are supposed to get by joining it and it looks like that is what they are enforcing here. Might be a few other companies sitting up and taking notice on this one.
Maybe ... Just Maybe ... If the U.S. didn't have the highest corporate tax rate in the industrialized world (nearly 30%) there wouldn't be such an economic and financial incentive for Apple (and Amazon and Google) to play these "tax-shell games." You think??
Originally Posted by ftbt
Maybe ... Just Maybe ... If the U.S. didn't have the highest corporate tax rate in the industrialized world (nearly 30%) there wouldn't be such an economic and financial incentive for Apple (and Amazon and Google) to play these "tax-shell games." You think??


If you don't think those companies would screw anyone or anything for an extra few cents then you have rocks in your head.
EU prints their money. In situations like that, taxes are just the punishment of disfavored groups.
Originally Posted by BobinNH
Hope Apple shuts down operations and leaves the EU holding the bag.


Apple pays only 0.005% taxes in Ireland (a specific loophole designed to woo Apple; that's only 1/2 of 1% - a real bargain!). Ireland's normal corporate tax rate for business profits is 25%. Thus, this favored rate was intended to woo Apple.

Apple has no operations in Ireland, only a shell company with NO employees and this is what the EU is complaining about. Ireland gets some tax income with no liabilities while the rest of the EU gets nothing to support their operations. This is considered unfair and the EU acted.
Originally Posted by ftbt
Maybe ... Just Maybe ... If the U.S. didn't have the highest corporate tax rate in the industrialized world (nearly 30%) there wouldn't be such an economic and financial incentive for Apple (and Amazon and Google) to play these "tax-shell games." You think??


The "official" US corporate tax rate is high, no doubt about that. But, no one pays the official rate; Congress has ensured that virtually every company gets a loop-hole deduction (e.g., depletion allowances, depreciation allowances, etc.) and their effective rate is considerable less.
Originally Posted by JSTUART
Originally Posted by RickyD
Apples should turn off all the Iphones and Ipads in Europe. Flash FU EU, on the screen and be done.


So, does that mean you think Apple shouldn't pay tax in the EU (or US), and should destroy their customers private property.

Not keen on your business model.


You speak of business models? How about the "model" of an unelected, all seeing, all knowing govermental entity telling another country how to run their business?

Your thoughts?
Originally Posted by JSTUART
Originally Posted by ftbt
Maybe ... Just Maybe ... If the U.S. didn't have the highest corporate tax rate in the industrialized world (nearly 30%) there wouldn't be such an economic and financial incentive for Apple (and Amazon and Google) to play these "tax-shell games." You think??


If you don't think those companies would screw anyone or anything for an extra few cents then you have rocks in your head.


Not a "few extra cents" ... but the difference between a U.S. tax rate of nearly 30% and the Irish rate of .005%! It doesn't take a rocket scientist to do the cost vs. benefit analysis on using Ireland for your corporate tax-planning. Moreover, neither Apple, Google or Amazon wrote the Irish tax laws. They just had accountants and tax lawyers who were smart enough to give a big F.U. to the IRS. And, Apple's association with Ireland predates the EU by decades. Now, the EU comes along and the bureaucrats in Brussels are pissed because they see this is as money they can't get their grubby, fat hands on. As for Apple, why should they be penalized for what amounts to perfectly legal tax planning.

As Justice Learned Hand said, "... there is no patriotic duty to increase one's taxes ..."

See: http://intltax.typepad.com/intltax_blog/2009/07/famous-tax-quotes-4-5.html
Originally Posted by djs
Originally Posted by BobinNH
Hope Apple shuts down operations and leaves the EU holding the bag.


Apple pays only 0.005% taxes in Ireland (a specific loophole designed to woo Apple; that's only 1/2 of 1% - a real bargain!). Ireland's normal corporate tax rate for business profits is 25%. Thus, this favored rate was intended to woo Apple.

Apple has no operations in Ireland, only a shell company with NO employees and this is what the EU is complaining about. Ireland gets some tax income with no liabilities while the rest of the EU gets nothing to support their operations. This is considered unfair and the EU acted.


Actually, that is 1/2 of 100th of a percent.
Originally Posted by djs
... Apple has no operations in Ireland, only a shell company with NO employees and this is what the EU is complaining about. Ireland gets some tax income with no liabilities while the rest of the EU gets nothing to support their operations. This is considered unfair and the EU acted.


TOTALLY INCORRECT. Apple has had a real, bricks-n-mortar presence in Ireland going back decades ... to the late 80's or early 90's I believe. And, currently they employ approximately 6,000 people in Ireland. This more of an issue about whether Brussels or the member EU states have the ability to control taxing policies.
Originally Posted by ftbt
Originally Posted by djs
... Apple has no operations in Ireland, only a shell company with NO employees and this is what the EU is complaining about. Ireland gets some tax income with no liabilities while the rest of the EU gets nothing to support their operations. This is considered unfair and the EU acted.


TOTALLY INCORRECT. Apple has had a real, bricks-n-mortar presence in Ireland going back decades ... to the late 80's or early 90's I believe. And, currently they employ approximately 6,000 people in Ireland. This more of an issue about whether Brussels or the member EU states have the ability to control taxing policies.


Since the Irish want to separate from Great Britain to stay in the EU they can abide with EU decisions.

Stuff them, the best are moving here anyway.
Originally Posted by JSTUART
Originally Posted by RickyD
Apples should turn off all the Iphones and Ipads in Europe. Flash FU EU, on the screen and be done.


So, does that mean you think Apple shouldn't pay tax in the EU (or US), and should destroy their customers private property.

Not keen on your business model.


So if you had been doing business with & in Ireland and Ireland gave you a big tax break for doing business with them...then all of a sudden the EU tells YOU that you owe THEM more money in the form of taxes, you'd be good with that? Is Ireland still part of England/Great Britain? Sour grapes about the Brexit vote??? Legal EU extortion?

JSTUART...you do realize that this won't cost Apple anything right? You do know who is gonna end up paying right???

Originally Posted by Middlefork_Miner
Originally Posted by JSTUART
Originally Posted by RickyD
Apples should turn off all the Iphones and Ipads in Europe. Flash FU EU, on the screen and be done.


So, does that mean you think Apple shouldn't pay tax in the EU (or US), and should destroy their customers private property.

Not keen on your business model.


So if you had been doing business with & in Ireland and Ireland gave you a big tax break for doing business with them...then all of a sudden the EU tells YOU that you owe THEM more money in the form of taxes, you'd be good with that? Is Ireland still part of England/Great Britain? Sour grapes about the Brexit vote??? Legal EU extortion?

JSTUART...you do realize that this won't cost Apple anything right? You do know who is gonna end up paying right???



Apple won't pay jack...the little fella will get it in the arse again as always.

The part I have a real problem with is;

Originally Posted by RickyD
Apples should turn off all the Iphones and Ipads in Europe. Flash FU EU, on the screen and be done.


That is private property, owned and payed for by working stiffs.
Originally Posted by JSTUART

Since the Irish want to separate from Great Britain to stay in the EU they can abide with EU decisions.

Stuff them, the best are moving here anyway.


Ireland has been completely separate from Great Britain since 1948, brexit has nothing to do with Ireland.

What we're seeing is the fallout from handing part of your sovereignty over to an intergovernmental organization. Whether anyone agrees with Ireland's tax deal with Apple or not, the fact is that it's a sovereign nation that has the right to set it's own tax policies. There's nothing illegal about Apple locating there to save taxes.

The EU's trying to meddle in Ireland's internal affairs should send up warning flags over our interactions with the United Nations, especially with regard to the second amendment. Obama would certainly like nothing more than to enter into treaties with the UN that could set us up for a legal showdown since the UN considers the second amendment to be abhorrent.

Apple's not going to turn off anyone's Iphone or Ipad. They're in business to make money and destroying your entire business while attempting to give the finger to the EU isn't a good way to make money.
Originally Posted by Old_Toot
Originally Posted by JSTUART
Originally Posted by RickyD
Apples should turn off all the Iphones and Ipads in Europe. Flash FU EU, on the screen and be done.


So, does that mean you think Apple shouldn't pay tax in the EU (or US), and should destroy their customers private property.

Not keen on your business model.


You speak of business models? How about the "model" of an unelected, all seeing, all knowing govermental entity telling another country how to run their business?

Your thoughts?


Not sure what you mean "about the "model" of an unelected, all seeing, all knowing govermental entity telling another country how to run their business".

The EU Commissioners are appointed by their respective governments to represent them. These Commissioners are NOT unelected, all seeing, all knowing governmental entities, but are appointed by their governments to represent their nation. Please explain.
Originally Posted by ftbt
Originally Posted by djs
... Apple has no operations in Ireland, only a shell company with NO employees and this is what the EU is complaining about. Ireland gets some tax income with no liabilities while the rest of the EU gets nothing to support their operations. This is considered unfair and the EU acted.


TOTALLY INCORRECT. Apple has had a real, bricks-n-mortar presence in Ireland going back decades ... to the late 80's or early 90's I believe. And, currently they employ approximately 6,000 people in Ireland. This more of an issue about whether Brussels or the member EU states have the ability to control taxing policies.


Yes, Apple does have a presence in Ireland, but not the corporate presence that is actually physically headquartered in Ireland. Sales and distribution offices, yes, but not corporate offices that pay taxes.
Originally Posted by JSTUART
Originally Posted by ftbt
Originally Posted by djs
... Apple has no operations in Ireland, only a shell company with NO employees and this is what the EU is complaining about. Ireland gets some tax income with no liabilities while the rest of the EU gets nothing to support their operations. This is considered unfair and the EU acted.


TOTALLY INCORRECT. Apple has had a real, bricks-n-mortar presence in Ireland going back decades ... to the late 80's or early 90's I believe. And, currently they employ approximately 6,000 people in Ireland. This more of an issue about whether Brussels or the member EU states have the ability to control taxing policies.


Since the Irish want to separate from Great Britain to stay in the EU they can abide with EU decisions.

Stuff them, the best are moving here anyway.


The Catholic portion of Ireland separated from Britain in 1921 (Republic of Ireland), while the Protestant Northern Ireland remained with Britain. Not sure what your are inferring.
Originally Posted by JSTUART
Originally Posted by djs
Originally Posted by BobinNH
Hope Apple shuts down operations and leaves the EU holding the bag.


Apple pays only 0.005% taxes in Ireland (a specific loophole designed to woo Apple; that's only 1/2 of 1% - a real bargain!). Ireland's normal corporate tax rate for business profits is 25%. Thus, this favored rate was intended to woo Apple.

Apple has no operations in Ireland, only a shell company with NO employees and this is what the EU is complaining about. Ireland gets some tax income with no liabilities while the rest of the EU gets nothing to support their operations. This is considered unfair and the EU acted.


Actually, that is 1/2 of 100th of a percent.


Bing, Bing, Bing!! Absolutely correct!!!!!
Originally Posted by djs
Originally Posted by ftbt
Originally Posted by djs
... Apple has no operations in Ireland, only a shell company with NO employees and this is what the EU is complaining about. Ireland gets some tax income with no liabilities while the rest of the EU gets nothing to support their operations. This is considered unfair and the EU acted.


TOTALLY INCORRECT. Apple has had a real, bricks-n-mortar presence in Ireland going back decades ... to the late 80's or early 90's I believe. And, currently they employ approximately 6,000 people in Ireland. This more of an issue about whether Brussels or the member EU states have the ability to control taxing policies.


Yes, Apple does have a presence in Ireland, but not the corporate presence that is actually physically headquartered in Ireland. Sales and distribution offices, yes, but not corporate offices that pay taxes.


WRONG AGAIN. Look. I am not going to give you a free course on international taxation of intellectual property for multi-national companies. Do some basic research on the concept of "Double Irish" or "Double Dutch" tax structures with respect to the licensing and taxation of intellectual property. Call them "tax loop-holes" if you want, but the way US, Irish and off shore tax rules are written, what Apple, Adobe, IBM, Pfizer, and other multi-national companies do with respect to the licensing of IP and conducting foreign sales to minimize or even eliminate taxes is perfectly legal. And, as to the income or profits attributable to the Irish subsidiary company (that is a tax resident of Ireland) it is taxed at 12.5% on the sum that remains after paying the royalty payments to a related off shore entity established in a no tax jurisdiction, all of which royalty payments are tax-deductible for determining taxes to be paid under Irish law.

If you don't like all those various tax laws ... have at it re-writing them. That is why I suggested that our US Tax Code be simply modified to reduce corporate taxes, so that US multi-national companies do not have to result to "pretzel-logic" tax structures to avoid what amounts to confiscatory taxes.


Older thread but thought this may have some interest.


Apple Plans to Repatriate Billions to the United States
Added: Saturday, September 3rd, 2016

Here.

Apple is going to repatriate offshore profits to the US in 2017 through paying billions of dollars in deferred taxes to the US Treasury. Tom Cook provided a summary of Apple’s 2014 tax affairs, citing the Irish and US taxes as $400m each. He provisioned several billion for the US for payment as soon as Apple repatriated. However, this revelation came as a surprise due to Apple’s previous refusal to countenance such a move.




Apple is no different from many US multinationals, who have for decades been pooling their non-US profits outside of the US. Exploiting loopholes in the tax laws, tech giants can defer US taxes continually so long as income is not repatriated to the US. Apple’s cash held offshore is $214.8bn, which is the largest of any American company.

Apple was recently accused by the European Commission of receiving state aid from Ireland, and immediately took a decision to repatriate foreign profits. The European regulators claimed that Apple’s Irish-registered companies were allowed to pass billions of income untaxed. However, both Apple and Ireland have denied any wrongdoing and promised to appeal against the decision. In response, some American politicians called it a political attack.

Previously, Tim Cook had consistently said he would not repatriate Apple profits to the United States until it decreases the US tax rate, because today it would cost him 40% to bring it home, which is clearly not a reasonable thing. The matter is that Apple makes large provisions for US taxes in its annual report, which allows the company to claim that it has an effective tax rate of 26% – this is much higher than many other tech firms.

However, behind these accounting provisions Apple has made clear it is not going to repatriate profits and really pay these taxes while the current tax rate is maintained that high. In other words, its reported tax rate is just an accounting fiction.

A federal tax rate in the United States is 35% on corporate profits and is regarded one of the highest in the world. Moreover, businesses can also end up paying an additional 5% in local state taxes on top of it. In reality, loopholes in the country’s tax code allow US tech giants to aggressively defer tax payments until any income earned outside the country is kept offshore. This is how many multinationals achieve some of the lowest effective tax rates ever.
These corporate giants want all the protections under Corporate Personhood, and yet want none of the responsibilities... Screw-them!

Phil
Same stuff happens in the US all the time with city/states competing for big companies. All kinds of tax and environmental breaks some with durations attached. As soon and the duration's up, they're off to a new spot.
Originally Posted by 12344mag
The EU needs cash to bail out Greece.


And, Ireland too is bankrupt following their disastrous foray into the world of ruinous banking and real estate speculation. The Irish Government debt (to the EU) is 123% of the GDP.

This is one reason that Ireland gave Apple and others very favorable tax status (0.05% vs. the normal corporate rate of 15%). Apple's corporate presence has no employees or facilities in Ireland, hence costs the Irish nothing so a very small tax rate generates revenues with not costs - good deal for Apple and Ireland - Bad deal for other nations.
Originally Posted by Calhoun
Originally Posted by 12344mag
The EU needs cash to bail out Greece.

EU isn't collecting it, they say Ireland needs to collect it. Ireland is saying they don't want it, but EU says they still have to take it.

I'm guessing other companies have been complaining about Apple getting a sweet tax deal that they can't get. In that vein I kind of support the EU, governments shouldn't be picking who wins and who loses by subsidizing them.

]
Calhoun I guess you haven't been paying attention to what the current Gov't has been doing with selected Co.'s in the USA. Cheers NC
Originally Posted by djs
Apple's corporate presence has no employees or facilities in Ireland...


That would be wrong...

http://www.independent.ie/business/...an-workforce-based-in-cork-30487720.html
Originally Posted by ftbt
Originally Posted by djs
... Apple has no operations in Ireland, only a shell company with NO employees and this is what the EU is complaining about. Ireland gets some tax income with no liabilities while the rest of the EU gets nothing to support their operations. This is considered unfair and the EU acted.


TOTALLY INCORRECT. Apple has had a real, bricks-n-mortar presence in Ireland going back decades ... to the late 80's or early 90's I believe. And, currently they employ approximately 6,000 people in Ireland. This more of an issue about whether Brussels or the member EU states have the ability to control taxing policies.


From the New York Times "The arrangements enabled Apple to funnel profit from two Irish subsidiaries to a “head office” with “no employees, no premises, no real activities,” the commission said. see: http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/31/technology/apple-tax-eu-ireland.html?_r=0
I guess Delaware is glad they never joined the EU.
Sure hope their stock doesn't tank...
I just got out of this one. I figure if the EURO's don't get 'em then Trump will. As he's called them out as an example.

And in time they might both get AAPL!

There are a specific few that I am sitting out. While there are a few others I am moving to.
I got out of direct stock a bit ago but do own a couple of mutual funds so invested.
Tim Cook is a criminal and he's just the head Swashbuckler of Apple, which essentially a Global Pirate !!

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