PS If cops are told that the "Find Me" feature on an Apple product is showing which house the stolen device is in, why can't they go to that house and make arrests, or at least retrieve the stolen property? Seems like the "Find Me" feature is extremely strong evidence of who and where the burglars are.

What's the big deal? If Obongo had sons they were just collecting their free obongo phones!

Or at least possession of stolen property charges.

"I bought it from a guy in the mall for $20. He said his name was Tony."





Clark

The cops still need a warrant to go into a house. You know, that pesky 4th amendment thing gets in the way from cops just making their way into to wherever an app tells them they should go.

The phone in the house does not prove that the thief is in there, or which thief is the thief that stole the iPhone; thus a warrant is needed to enter the house.

Your argument is a good and strong one but is it enough to convince a judge he should allow cops to force their way into a house?

Seems like a good chance a judge would give a warrant, but can't a cop just knock and announce to whoever responds that the stolen property is in the house, requesting its return and some information about where they got it? That doesn't require a warrant.

PS What's the difference between this scenario and a cop responding to a Lojack signal after a car theft?

Because cars and guns are different than DVD players and TV's.





Clark

Sure, just park the stolen car in your attached garage and you're home free?

Can't they enter if they observe evidence of a crime? Here, look at this Go Find Me signal, observe this evidence of a crime. That's no more far-fetched than finding marijuana growing in the close from an infrared signature or finding it hidden out of sight in a vehicle by observing a dog's reaction.

The simple fact is most busy departments can't be bothered with solving property crimes.

Worth reading again.

I've had some experience with this issue as a police officer. Unfortunately, you can't just walk up to somebody's house and say "Apple says the phone is here, let me in! " Sometimes the technology works very well, sometimes it doesn't. The Fourth Amendment protects people from situations like this, and you should be glad it does.

I've had some success knocking on the door and talking to the homeowner. Especially when the parent looks at the kid and says " go get the phone, now! " More often though, people won't answer the door when I come knocking. Experience as a cop goes a long way. How you talk to people and what you tell them, plays a big part.

The accuracy of the app is often suspect. If there is one house at the end of a country road, it's pretty good. However, when you're looking at 12 apartments in one building of a huge complex, it's not nearly so good. I've seen the app say the phone was in one place and then suddenly say it was 5 miles away, when it was determined in the end that it never moved.

As far as getting a warrant goes, the officer can't swear to the accuracy of the information or the technology it's based on. Judges don't issue search warrants based on free apps. Again, you should be glad they don't. We may get to the point some day where this technology is good enough, but that's a long way off.

The question regarding the Lowjack hit is a good one. I suggest anyone wondering about that dig a little deeper. Start with learning what a Carroll stop is. The bottom line is the law is almost always lagging behind advances in technology. But you have to ask yourself how you'd feel if somebody kicked your door in and came in your house based on the information provided by a free app.

Unless it's the right business as the complainant.

You'd get less time for manslaughter than if you were caught stealing from some businesses...

I had a conversation with a fellow in a gun shop once who said he found the truck belonging to the robbers who burglarized his home. His neighbor tried to stop them from leaving his home when he figured out he was being burglarized, and was threatened with a firearm, thus converting the burglary into armed robbery. The neighbor, however, got a description and license plate. The homeowner (after already dealing with police) drove through various neighborhoods near his home and found said vehicle in a driveway. He then called the police, expecting them to arrive and make arrests. He said, however, that the police refused to respond. They said, according to this fellow, that they couldn't do anything.

Not sure if I got the whole story, of course, but can anyone think of a reason why (assuming all this was true) cops wouldn't be able to act on the above information?

Apple needs to add a new "Explode on Command" app.

Whether it blows their head off when talking, or a chunk of their ass off while carrying it in their hip pocket, it'd still be a "bang" to see thieves get what's coming to them.

Make the app do the same for stolen Air Jordans too.

That is indeed PC enough to get a search warrant.

Getting the agency to pursue the warrant may be the trick...

You'd have to be an idiot to assume this is true.

I believe that the Israelis have that app for phones. Air Jordens should be equipped w/ pressure detonated C-4.


mike r

I'd bet the Air Jordan thing would catch more than the same thing -
applied to Tony Lama's

Petit larceny vs grand larceny

The guy you had a conversation was full of schit, and you bought it.

I'd bet on that.

Had my home burglarized while I was working out of town. Spotted some of the identifiable stolen goods at a pawn shop (purely coincidence) which, ironically, was across the street from the cop shop. Walked across the street and asked for the detective in charge of my burglary case. He got the ID info from the pawn broker and, long story short, made the arrest.

Point being, that any guy who isn't an idiot will get the job done when you make it easy for him. Low hanging fruit, etc...

Real world, 1st person, best post here.

...but open-ended fairy tales are just so much more fun.

Heh. Ain't it so!

I had a home burglary a few years ago, a few months later, I found my wife's compound bow on eBay, offered by a local pawn shop. I went to the shop and talked privately to the owner who, after seeing a copy of the police report, agreed that the bow was the one stolen from my home. Of course, he could not give me the name of the person who pawned it, but he did show me everything that person had pawned and asked if any of it was mine (it wasn't). He also told me that, by law, a list of every item pawned was uploaded to a law enforcement database each day and that law enforcement could look at every item the person had pawned at any pawn shop in the state. He told me to notify the sheriff's office, have then come by and pick up the bow and the name of the person who pawned it.

I went straight to the sheriff's office, talked to a detective and gave him all the info......called back 2 weeks later and they hadn't even gone to the shop to get the name of the person who pawned my stuff. As far as I know, they never did.

Talk about a slam dunk gimme.......all they had to do was get the persons name, look up what he had pawned on the database, confirm that it matched items taken from my house (and probably others) and arrest him........guess they were too busy writing tickets or eating donuts.......

Did you get your stuff back? As was noted before, possession of a stolen item alone is not probable cause for arrest. If it was, the pawnbroker would be guilty too.

Writing a search warrant takes time. sometimes hours to complete in order for a local judge to say yes to it. Patrol officers do not have the time and in many cases the talent (training) to write the warrants. They could do a knock and talk but now you have tipped off the bad guys.

There is another issue, manpower. Our city council and manager made sure we were always understaffed. ($$$$$ and maybe politics) If you have 3 calls for service and only 2 officers on duty, something goes undone. The same goes for the detective section. I always had too many cases and not enough time in one day. I did try hard to work burglaries and felonies but that meant something else had to suffer.

That's the way it is and I did not like it then and I do not like it now.

kwg

No, I didn't get anything back, the insurance had already paid off so the items would have gone to them anyway. I understand that the pawnbroker wasn't subject to arrest, but the person who pawned it should be.

How is possession of stolen property not grounds for arrest?? People are charged with possession of stolen property all the time.....are they arrested for something else and that gets added on??

Did he knowingly, willfully intend to break the law by unlawfully possessing stolen property?

Possession of stolen property is not a crime, unless there is evidence to prove that the person actually committed the theft or acquired the property knowing it is stolen. It's pretty tough to get convicted of a crime. Of course, criminals love to say otherwise.

That's a very ignorant statement.



DAve

Fireball is very ignorant.



Dave

Sorry you think so. That has certainly been my impression every time I have tried to get police action on a theft.

After a stereo was ripped out of my parents' car I showed the (Chicago) cop the identifiable footprints around the car and the same footprints going down our unpaved alley all the way to the back door of a neighbors house. He shrugged.

(I put a rock through the kid's windshield. Then I shrugged.)

Like Josephine County for instance?

Well Clark in our county....

That is pretty much true...

We have like one sheriff and about 3 full time deputies to cover a county that is bigger than Rhode Island...

Protocol is, if you catch people robbing your home.... if the cops do respond... they don't arrest them, they don't have the funds to run the jail... so the cops will issue them a citation and a court date... and then leave...

more normal, Josephine County... will tell you to make a list of the things stolen and go on line and file a police report... and they will have it available to your insurance company...

Right here is all we have available here in Hooterville..

https://www.co.josephine.or.us/Page.asp?NavID=1808

Waiting...

No...you must be thinking of Microsoft operating systems.

I'm shocked, a troop of baboons.

Maybe the stuff needs to require some type of activation before it can be used. Just keep track of the serial number and the system not allowing stolen phones to be activated. If they can't use the thing they will quit stealing them.

Samsung already has that covered.

Wow. You met a lazy cop.



Dave

Issuing a notice to appear or actually incarcerating is at the discretion of every office and department across the country. If you're saying B&E's don't result in an arrest and some days in county, you need to move out of Rhode Island.




Clark