Friends,

This last weekend I was up at a friends house in central Idaho for a shoot. Aside from the camaraderie, it was a great opportunity to see how gear and people would function in the cold.

On the drive up I had the heater going full blast in my old FJ62, and it was still not quite enough. My local weather was around 13 below, with the wind chill factor it was around 35 below.

I ended up driving with some of my late season hunting/mountaineering clothing, as it was a fairly chilly ride. The next morning I ended up using my backpack stove inside the rig to un-thaw everything.







I dang near broke the key off in the door trying to get the old FJ unlocked. The local temp was 17 below and there was a very slight breeze. A good opportunity to see how things would function.



At the gathering we started off with some pistol drills and it was immediately apparent, and discussed that the handgun ammo was not performing like it did in warmer weather. I was running a G34 and it felt sluggish, as if I was shooting .380s. I was using a mix of Blazer ball and some Federal ball. instead of the usual sharp crack of a report, the ammo was making a light "Pop" sound. Very scientific, I know, but I did not have a chrono and I doubt one would work long in the temperature anyways. The G34 seemed to be barely cycling. I had a single failure to fire, and in examining the round, it had a very light primer strike. On a second go-round, the cartridge fired.

On a personal performance note, I noted that my speed was restricted by clothing, and overall I felt like I was losing 15% or so on the combo of speed and accuracy. On the positive side, I have a fiber optic front sight, and it was so bright, due to all the snow, that it looked like it could have been battery powered.

Also, as could be expected, due to loading mags, and handling metal, hands/fingers got pretty cold, and there was nowhere near the normal tactile feel of the trigger. It was not a huge issue, due to being quite familiar with the trigger pull on the Austrian plastic guns, but i noted that it could be a real problem if you were working with unfamiliar gear

Rifles. I was running my old, ultra reliable Colt that I have had since the 90s. This is where things really fell apart. We were taking turns doing a drill and when it was my turn I stepped up and dropped the hammer, only to hear a "CLICK". I did the usual immediate action stuff and 3 more times all I received was a "CLICK". The gun was fairly well lubed with a teflon based lubricant, and it was absolutely dead in the water.

I ended up pulling my BCG, and using a leatherman, I held it over some red hot coals in the outdoor stove. After heating it up, I disassembled it, wiped almost all of the lube off and re-assembled it.

After that the rifle ran flawlessly.

I also noted, and multiple people discussed that the rifle ammo/powder did not seem to be affected hardly at all by the extreme cold.



Overall it was a fun gathering, with great people, and an excellent opportunity to examine how semi autos functioned in that environment.

Also, I took some pics while I was traveling.

These guys were not far from Craters of the Moon N.P.

Mackay Idaho:

I'm curious why you would want to re-freeze (un-thaw)everything inside the rig.

Good pictures!

Love the old buildings.

And yeah, in that weather the critters are burning more energy than they can take in even if the feed was high quality!


Casey

As usual excellent!!! Thanks..

Mackay,
Great photos! Beautiful place over your way. I have noticed, in my own cold(-20 and lower) winter camping/slogineering epics that cold has some crazy effects on darn near everything. How does that cartridge stove do for you in subzero temps?

When it is sub zero, the animals tend to stay down low, so lots of opportunities for viewing.







These pics really does not do this ice flow justice. This is the main Salmon river near Challis.

The canister stoves really don't run as well when you get to a certain sub zero temp. That said I have learned when I am outdoors in such weather to keep the canister inside a jacket pocket, and not exposed as much.

I never did get a decent pic of these turkeys, but there were a few down on the road.

To be honest Mackay I am more interested in how the old 60 series held up to the cold.

Pahsimeroi river geese:



Main Salmon. What guard rails?

Nice pics. I drove through there last week I think I saw those bulls.

Mirrors my own experience. I always buy my winter sleeping bags with a little more room so I can keep canisters, batteries, etc. warm over night. I was able to run my Jetboil last winter in the Stanley area at -25F for at least long enough to boil enough water for breakfast, as long as I kept the canister warm beforehand. Great fun! Thanks again for those pics!

Cheers~

Gratuitous Land Cruiser shot!




Driving home in a white out was a bit of a pain. Sometimes it was rather hard to tell where the edge of the road was.




Fortunately the transportation department attaches markers above the T posts, on the side of the road, for when the posts get buried in the snow.

The tough part is that you have to keep the heater going full blast on the windshield, so the toes never actually get warm. My toes were quite numb by the time a got to Salmon Idaho.

Been there! I went from Malta to Pocatello with a broken heater fan at temperatures between -5 and -35. Had to buy oversized cold weather boots to have room for more socks. It helped, but still had mighty cold feet.

Love that country.. We spent the fall of 15 in that country loafing and doing a bit of hunting...

Thanks for the great photos and Info on the cold temp gun functioning. I've read a bit about the folks who live and work on the Svalbard Island group north of Norway and they made it pretty clear that oil/lube was verboten on their firearms(for polar bear protection). As I recall they went so far as to use solvent on all working parts to clean every bit of lube off, running them bone dry. Bolt guns were the norm and once the rifle left the protection of a warm building the rifles were left outside/cold room to prevent condensation buildup if they were brought back inside. Any ice formation would lock them up pretty quick.

I have a 1911 with the NP3 coating by ROBAR that has worked very well in cold temps. The teflon in the coating seems to prevent any ice to stick between parts.

I've nearly broken keys off as well when I had my FJ60(running an FJ80 presently). Started carrying a bic lighter in my pocket to heat up the key before putting it in the slot. Works pretty well.

It ran like a top, just never put out enough heat.

The door handles and locks were stiff to operate, and definitely could use a shot of graphite lubricant in the mechanisms.

Of course the same could be said for the firearms. A low viscosity oil would be highly recommended for temps this low.

Once I wiped off the regular teflon based lube, and was running the rifles almost dry, they ran perfectly.

I noted that the rifle powders and handgun powders are/were affected differently in the extreme cold.

Plus the extreme cold was hell on batteries. If I was planning on carrying guns in a martial capacity in sub zero temps, I would either have extra batteries along, and close at hand, or choose a non battery operated optic like an ACOG.

When we do our December elk hunts, I leave our rifles on the porch, or in the back of the truck, for the same reasons you noted above.

The Bic lighter in the pocket to heat up a key is a smart move!

Since you are in inclement weather a lot, how are the gutters on the 60...have you any problem with rust?

Thanks for posting the pics!

Great idea SBTCO on the lighter and key thing.

Yep, such cold temps can play havoc on machinery.

I now have a couple of the green 1 pound propane bottles inside the old Land Cruiser, along with a little cookstove top. It puts out a pretty good amount of heat and does not take long to get the interior a fair bit warmer.

Plus I can have hot coffee or tea anytime, anywhere!

Mac,

Neat pics!

During the Anchorage PD academy, the firearms classes began the second week of December. We were on the range for a week with the warmest day -5F, the coldest day was -15F. We were using the ranges at Ft. Richardson, so we were at the base of the mountains and the wind was constant.

This was back in the revolver days (S&W Mod 13) and continuity of fire drills were quite the challenge. The practice ammo were using was reloaded .357 with 158gr cast SWC with an unknown (Unique?) really dirty powder. The second day we had a number of revolvers gummed up and failure to fire as well as students being unable to fire (everything was done double-action) due to frozen powder fouling & lube mix.
A good lesson there to thoroughly clean your weapons!

Keeping revolvers, 870's, and later, AR-15's, up and running in extreme cold is a challenge. The newer lubes make it better but, in the case of lubes, there is such a thing as "too much of a good thing".

I never liked the canister stoves as they were a PIA in really cold weather and preferred to use an MSR Whisperlight if I was backpacking, or a single-burner Coleman stove.

I have tent camped in -50F weather and never had a problem keeping either of them up and running.
The pics of your Landcruiser bring back fond memories. I had an FJ40 for a lot of years up there and do miss it.

Ed

That is a somewhat common problem on the older FJ wagons, but my personal one spent the majority of it's existence in a dry ish climate, and when I had it painted a number of years back, there was no rust in the gutter area.

Great pics. COLD is hard on everything.

Can you imagine what our boys had to go through at Chosin fighting 150,000 Chinese in that kind of cold.

I did a December cow elk hunt here in MT. about 15-16 years ago. Friggin cold. Got down to -20 at night and I was camped out with 10x10 spike tent with a little Riley wood stove that would produce enough heat for about 20 min. before stoking again to maintain heat so obviously didn't last through the night. Had a good sleeping bag but regardless, in those temps a guy learns quick how to prioritize and organize for the little things in life, like taking a crap without freezing certain extremities. All good fun!

Same here. My Ford F250 is not in a garage so the locks freeze. My old ZIPPO heats a lock key quickly and ZAPs the lock open with no effort.

Several years ago I had the firing pin freeze on my Ruger 77 (tang model), when elk hunting n.w. of DuBois, Wyoming. Pulled the bolt, disassembled it, washed it with white gas and then it worked perfectly. Since, hunting in really cold weather, I remove the oil from my rifle's internal parts.

Thanks for all the pictures and info, Mackay. Lots of snow over here... but no elk or deer in the neighborhood. Just two legged animals walking their four legged animals in the snow.

L.W.

Ed,

Good info in your post.

I have had Smith revolvers freeze up, and the cylinder not rotate due to sub zero temps.







The fix was simple though.

I threw it on the dash of my truck with the heater running and continued the jackrabbit hunt with a .45 ACP Glock.

The lighter for the car locks/key trick is perfect. Why didn't think of that?

Yeah I remember no vehicle doors locked in Kodiak for months at a time, and wiper blades raised at night. But we did not get real cold, 5 below would be eyebrow raising, the 6 yrs I was there. Man, I miss it!

Great pics! Always nice to learn how things work when wet, hot, cold, dirty etc.. including us.. I recall as a youth once dressed warm enough for the super cold we had at the time, bowhunting. Doe came, I could not draw the bow much less anchor or shoot dresses as the michelin tire man.

We keep teh stove canisters in our sleeping bags in AK if the temps are dropping...

Wife has wanted an older FJ ever since she bought the 2008 FJ Cruiser, and Blue is her favorite color.. she'd be jealous of your ride!!!

We've looked for old ones but given up, cost on good ones was steep. And we've decided to spend the money on the move to AK instead.

Funny you mentioned that, as last night I was watching some videos from Chosin, and not too long ago watched the PBS "Battle of Chosin".

It was bad enough to be grossly outnumbered, but to have weapons not work, and to be stuck out in such horrible conditions without being able to get/stay warm had to be beyond brutal and demoralizing.

Not to mention watching friends die due to exposure, lose fingers and limbs due to frostbite, etc had to be one of the worst things in their lives to ever deal with.


Plus watching the trucks haul away dead Americans who were frozen stiff and stacked like wood, had to have been heartbreaking.

Those guys who suffered through that have my utmost respect.

Read one of the Chosin books a few years ago, Fox Company maybe... was a sobering read.

Amazing what they managed to survive, well the ones that did...

Nothing but pure respect for those folks for sure.

That old rig seems to get compliments fairly regularly. It took me about 5 years of searching to find one in good enough shape, at a decent price, to use as a basis.

Mac,

The solution I came up with for keeping S&W revolvers running in extreme cold was to very thoroughly clean them, including removing the sideplate, hose them down with Brakleen, then a puff or two of powdered graphite in the guts, replace the sideplate, pull the cylinder out and apart, clean it as above, then apply powdered graphite to the cylinder's moving parts. Don't use a lot as it can clump up with changes in heat & cold such as going in and out of warm places, and cause binding.

Doesn't surprise me about the Glock running just fine. The only time we had problems with any auto pistol was when they were dirty and lubed too heavily. A lot of fail to feed, light firing pin/striker hits, and Type 2 malfunctions.

Folks on the range with dirty/over-lubed guns got a lot of malfunction clearance drill practice.

Ed

Great pictures, they make keep the fire burning. I mean that in a good way.

When I lived in ND, my truck gun as everyone refers to them as, was either a push feed M70 243 or a m 700 223. They stayed in the truck all winter long. If I needed to take them out, I stood them up in an unheated garage. I didn't want the stocks warping or metal sweating. When in the truck the barrels were pointed down.

Powder, especially IMR 4350, I thought was effected by extreme cold.

I got started using Rem-Lube back in the late 90's. A couple of my old partners liked to goose hunting. They used the Remington autos in 10 gauge?. They had problems until they used Rem-Lube.

Just my .02$

Great story Mack!

It's usually best to not engage a vehicle's emergency parking brake in below freezing temps for very long either unless you aren't planning on driving it again before the weather warms up.

PS, find you a pair of surplus military artic boots, we called them bunny boots. I don't know the correct name for them. The white ones were rated for minus 70, the black ones were rated for minus 30. I still have both pair.

My next door neighbor is in his 80s. He celebrated his 21st birthday in the battle of the Chosin Reservoir. He is a little guy, so the Marines made him a tank crewman.

He said the tanks had a terrible time getting up the narrow, icy, single-lane mountain pass road. He said a couple of tanks just slid off the road, down into the ravine.

I asked him how well his weapons worked in the cold. The Chinese attacked during the night. He became rather solemn, then he told me, the .50 cal machine gun on top of the tank was frozen solid, and wouldn't work when they needed it most.

The .30 cal machine gun was inside the tank with just the barrel sticking out, and it worked well.

Then he laughed, and said, "The cannon always worked!"

He said he helped bring badly wounded soldiers to an aid station. He saw some whose bloody wounds were completely frozen. When they warmed up in the aid tent their wounds thawed, and they quickly bled to death.

Spot on!

Yep, the old Bunny Boots, not to be confused with Mickey Mouse boots.

There was an older gent at the shoot wearing Bunny Boots. I would hate to try to climb a steep mountain in them, but for standing around (like we were), waterfowl hunting, ice fishing, etc, they would be G2G.

On similar cold hunting trips, I do the old trick of filling a Nalgene bottle (or 2) of boiling hot water and sticking one down by me feet, in my sleeping bag, and one up near my core.

Plus I keep an empty bottle close at hand to pee into during the night, so I don't have to leave the tent. Taking a leak in freezing temps,after crawling out of a warm bag is no fun at all.

Your neighbor has my utmost respect.

Mackay;
Good afternoon to you sir, thanks once again for the wonderful photos and accompanying story.

When we were still living in Saskatchewan the winters always presented us with a number of challenges revolving around keeping things warm and functioning.

We had an '80 Toyota 4x4 pickup and even with the radiator covered with a chunk of cardboard and another bigger chunk in the bush guard in front of that, it'd only keep the front window clear and not all of it at that.

For sure good boots and extra layers were needed with it. Funny how some of the older rigs just didn't have the heaters that others did.

As far as firearms sounding funny when it was really cold, I recall my good wife shot her first buck when it was a balmy -38° C and her .308 carbine sounded only about 2/3 power.

I did an informal test - no chronograph back then - and shot at a pair of stacked 5 gallon cans at the same distance maybe 300yds or so, when it was -40° and then again at about -8°. As memory serves the point of impact was quite a bit higher on the warmer day.

We didn't bring the rifles in the house or cabin until the end of season either as I recall. They'd sweat so bad - I rusted the bore on a BBR Browning I had doing the freeze/thaw cycle with it.

Anyway sir, we think we're cold at -20°C where we are in the Okanagan now and so help me it does feel cold to me too. Gettin' old I suspect.

Thanks again sir and all the best to you all this year.

Dwayne

having never in my life experienced anything like that, I can't imagine those conditions. My hat is off to anyone that can function in such extreme temperatures and weather.
I respect that ability but I damn sure am not going to ever participate in such an exercise.
Y'll carry on.

'Cool' pics Mackay, and uber Toyota!


It's been a real winter here in eastern MT as well.

A little more snow than normal and chilly.

Average daily temp so far this year is -3F.


We lost power to part of the cow farm this past week and had to use a Honda generator to get waterers and a 40 year old IH tractor thawed out.

-22F and -18F on two different mornings and with less than a half dozen pulls it started right up.


Hydraulics are SLOW to get moving and I'm getting tired of chopping ice... Gonna have to sharpen the axe, 7-8" of ice made every night.

Good photos and info!!

I woke up to -30* on Friday (I think). These are actual temps and not windchill temps. It was cold but life goes on. I don't mind the cold if it's not windy. I dropped my Polaris Widetrak snowmobile in the water a few days back. -15* and water just past my knees made for a cold trek back home. I was glad to get that heavy pig out before if froze in for the winter.

Dwayne,

I get the feeling that our winters are just plain Balmy as compared to what you guys deal with! The .308 story sounds about right, and is great stuff to know.

A common theme seems to be keeping gear outside, or at least in unheated storage, vehicles, etc.

Sam,O

That old FJ is a true favorite.

Working cows, and all the related stuff/problems takes one hell of a lot of the "romanticism" right out of being a cattleman. No big deal, when you opt to go out for a couple days of goofing off, but when it is day in and out, all winter long, that tends to wear on ya!

I think Ian Tyson mentioned that a time or 2.

30 below is getting down right nippley!

My five winters living in Calgary are all I need in this lifetime.

I'd be more inclined to "thaw" things if it was really cold.

Very cool ride by the way.

Remind me not to drink from your Nalgenes.

They are Bata Boots. The black ones (Type 1) are called "Mickey Mouse Boots" and the white ones (Type 2) "Bunny Boots".

You can still buy them.

Hopefully, I'll never need them here in East Texas.

Ed

Great pics and write up, and responses.

Great pics Mackay...can hardly wait to see that area again...once it thaws out that is... It was -27 in Challis yesterday morning...-10 in Mackay.

About 15 years ago took a Ruger Mini30 to the range when it was -5*. Left it and the ammo out overnight in the back of my truck and took it to the range that way.. Had zero problems with it running the whole magazine. It was dry except for some G96 silicone spray...

Bob

Sam,

You would have loved my year and a half living/working on the Caspian Sea.

My island 60 miles offshore.



My living quarters. The retired Russian cruise ship Shkotov.

Was it lube or dirt that froze up?

And what lube were you using? I read the thread and if I missed it I apologize.




Travis

UBER ethnic!



Dave

Have you tried blocking some of the radiator (bottom 1/2) with cardboard at those temps?

Cardboard can make a difference, but best not to put it too close to the radiator because if it gets wet it can breakdown and plug up the mesh on the radiator - BTDT.

Beer-box cardboard seems about perfect. I've also used heavy duty aluminum cooking foil to cover the grill.

Nice pics Mackay!

What's the story on those rims? Are they OEM?

Want some Ed?

I can buy either ones, here locally...if ya ever do need some...

Great pictures, stories and info.....My hats off to all you guys (Especially military, LEO and Fire/EMS) that live, work, protect and play in those sub zero temps. I have taken several tent/pack Elk hunting trips into the Bridger Teton Wilderness area where temps dropped to -14 F with several feet of snow as well as other trips to Montana and Canada....Those trips were only a week or so at a time then back home to balmy Long Island, takes a certain toughness to endure those conditions on a regular basis...Kudos !

This is the only place I've lived where a vehicle's heater couldn't compete with the cold and wind chill of driving 70mph down a road.

Full blast, defrost only and the ice just keeps growing. It's crazy how cold it gets here. In the 20's yesterday and today. Feels good.




Dave

Carolyn complains no fair I can pee in a bottle at night when its cold....

Dumb question I know... if it takes a bit of work with that much ice, wouldn't a small chain saw be easier? Until so cold that chains would shatter?

Sam, really you have RE extremes, you are just on the other end like we are.

Dealing with 120 in teh sun plus a heat index and the 90% humidity, thats not for normal people to deal with either.

Often thought that somewhere between where we are, and AK should be a happy medium somewhere, some how....

The lube gummed up, and I was getting light firing pin strikes. I heated up the BCG, taking 90% of the lube off. After that it ran flawlessly.

The next time out, when the temps get to 10 below or colder, I will give it a go with a super low viscosity oil.



It is 6 degrees currently. Not cold enough.

Thanks Friend!

Ya don't pee in the Nalgenes! That is what empty gatoraid bottles are for.

Nope, but I was considering doing so, if I have to travel any real distance anytime soon.

I used an axe and shovel to clean out the chunks after I broke them up before.

One morning at -14 I scooped out a large chunk of ice and it fell against my leg... cut my leg pretty good even through Wranglers.

Not fun.

I never considered aluminum foil. That is a great idea. Thanks!

Nope, the OEMs were rusty. These are 17" aftermarket jobs.

That said, I kinda wish I had sandblasted the old original ones and painted them. These steel ones are heavy, and the 17" tires cost a fair bit more than 15", though I do like the additional height.

I remember reading a training bulletin back in the early nineties regarding the M16's propensity to go "bang-click" in very cold weather. The bulletin said to use LAW (Light Arctic Weapon lube?) instead of CLP.


I also remember my fist night in the field in Basic back in the eighties. Our canteens froze. I have hated the cold ever since. But keep this info coming please so we can stay current.

Yeah 20s is T shirt weather!

One of the NOAA stations near Stanley reported 43 below zero *F last Friday early AM. I'd post a pic but this site and Photobucket aren't working too well for me lately. :grrrr:

I've switched to 0-20 synthetic motor oil, so far it's works down to -20 and works good in warmer temps. CLP is too thin other than keeping a coat in the barrel and not so great on the BCG in warmer temps. I think LAW is only good to +30F.

You guys rock. Please keep these real life tips and tricks coming.

The wealth of information you can get from this site wi amazing.

I remember being young and hard. I don't have enough time or money to be stupid. It is good to weatherproof your gear. Now I know even better.

One I've found that can really warm you up at night whether in a sleeping bag or even a bivy sack is just to eat a candy bar. Great way to get your metabolism going when you feel like you are freezing half to death.

I had my door lock froze up and used the de-icer for the windshield, in it. Sprayed a little in the lock and I was able to get the key in and unlock the door. I would use it on my gun if it was froze up and I needed it to run.

Minus 31 F. in N Custer county this morning at 8 a.m., looks like it is a new record for this date since the site I looked at shows that the previous record was minus 17 F. back in 1947. Our average for this time of year is 12 F.

Darned global warming anyway.

drover

Very interesting info. I can contribute a simple automotive trick - isopropyl alcohol freezes at -126°F, and is darn useful in your windshield washer tank. A couple of pints will prevent freezing. I've also used it to thaw out frozen wiper blades. Fairly cheap, too.

You bet, but the candy bar is the 'kindling' for the internal fire.


A co-worker of my wife runs a boyscout troop with her husband. The kids can earn a fifty below badge sleeping out. 5 nights at -10; 1 night at -20 plus 1 night at -30; 1 night at -50, etc.

The feed the boys a candy bar or two plus sausage right before bed. They call the candy bar kindling and the fat in the sausage is the overnight log.

FWIW, Up here at least, -20* wiper fluid is sold through the winter. That uses methanol (methyl alcohol) to depress the freeze point. It's available fairly cheap at most hardware stores.

Will isopropyl harm auto finish?

Looks like a great outing...I wish I could just drive out of the cold and go home..Temp hit -30F this morning...I'll throw another log on the fire...
I run my firearms dry in the winter.

When I went to arctic survival school, I built a trench and sump into the floor for this purpose. I couldn't imagine opening my warm-ish snow shelter just to go out and pee.

It was 25 F inside the snow shelter and -42F outside, if I recall correctly.

Also, when I lived in Alaska and NP3 was just starting to be used on rifles, a few friends had their rifles coated and stoped lubing the rifles thereafter with no ill consequences that I know if of.

The coldest I've hunted in was -32F, hunting for 'bou outside of TOK. It was attention-getting. I'll never do that again on purpose.

Pee cup

I know guys that used to wedge a plastic bottle of coke under the light bar and drive around awhile. Cooled it down real fast. But if they forgot them, they had a mess....

Sam, Everybody wants to be a cowboy till its time to do cowboy [bleep] !!!!!!!!!!!

Great report, lots of useful info. You don't know what works or fails until you experience it yourself. Last Saturday I was shooting w/ friends in mild temps of about 20*. I was wearing light gloves and twice had the tip of a finger catch in the magwell of my Glock.

We keep postponing our trip to Salmon until daytime temps reach the 20s.


mike r

I've been using motor oil on my pistols and AR as well now that you mention it and I haven't had anything seize yet.

I had a brief affair with Fireclean and Froglube but went back to motor oil. No complaints.




Dave

I will use a chain saw to occasionally make a new hole(+2 feet ice) but it's way easier for everyday use to pack an axe in the pickup(regular cab) compared to a stinky saw. Good exercise anyway, depending on the temp it takes about 100 good swings to reopen a 1x3 foot hole.
And if it snows a little at night there is always way less ice in the morning. Snow is an uber good insulator.


Chains won't shatter but they will ice up quick when they get wet(do not stop until you're done..). And don't break through to water until you're just about done or it can be messy!

AZ, the 'romance' disappears real quick!

But we're spoiled now.


Super warm heaters in the F350's and round bales....

When my brother and I were young we caught the tail end of the small square bale era. Now that was work, and real fun in a blizzard!

They look good. They'd look real good on my FJ-40.

I'm surprised to hear they're steel, they look like Aluminum.

A buddy clears trail for the iditarod... says chains shatter awful easy at some certain temp so they just shut down the maintenance if it gets that cold.

Thanks for the info. Was just wondering. Can only imagine what happens with a saw when you finally get to the water.... I know what happens here when we cut stuff under water on rescue stuff in a hurry...

Sorry Jeff.

I've run one down to -40 to -50 in Fbx. Never shattered a chain. In fact never even heard of it until this thread.

That sounds like a Reality TV statement.

ETA:
After a minute of idle, the chain should be plenty warm to not be stressed. At those temps they will stretch a lot when warm and if the bar is not not loosened when done, the chain will tighten enough that they could break.

ironbender;
Good evening to you sir, I hope this finds you and your fine family doing well.

We used to cut firewood on stupid cold days back in my Saskatchewan days and I don't recall ever having any chain breaks either.

That said, one did want to use winter bar oil for sure - stripped the plastic oiler drive gear out of my Pioneer saw running too heavy a viscosity oil.

Can I use the term "running" or not?

True story, a buddy picked up my present Husky chainsaw from a pawn shop in Alberta - so no user's manual. I'd used it for a few days in summer and couldn't figure out why my left hand was always so hot using it. Eventually I looked up a manual online and found that of all things it's equipped with a bar heater.... who knew?

There is a switch for it, but it wasn't marked for function or even on/off - but it IS now!

All the best to you all this year ironbender.

Dwayne

Cool story Dwayne!

HNY to you folks.

I spent 18 months at a Missile base outside of Anchorage in the middle 1970's. We were at 4000 feet above see level and our biggest issue was the wind. On a really cold day or night the wind played hell with us walking around a Missile section "guarding" it.

http://nikealaska.org/summit/SiteSUMMIT.html

Lost a deer one time using a borrowed .243. 3 different rounds just lite primer strikes due to oil making firing pin movement sluggish


Cold weather takes different equip and skill sets

Bitter cold is related to Murphy and is an unforgiving beatch

She'll bite you if you give her an opening

Back in my younger days one of our annual winter projects was cutting ice off the lake and stacking it in the ice house. We used layers of sawdust for insulation between the blocks,by the time we got to the bottom layer it would usually be mid-August and at least half of the original block would still be there. We always used chain saws to cut it with - never a problem with breaking chains. A heck of lot of work though.

drover

Drover,
I can believe it! I wish I could find exactly where in the Stanley area the station is located-the one that reported 43 below zero?

Could well be, I trust spencer ,but then again I don't recall if they actually shattered them, or were told to quit before it happened. I believe it was close to -50/60 at the time.

I'll have to get on him now, seems like a cheap way out of working, eh, boss, the saw will shatter... LOL.

I know it dang sure won't down here, not in our friggin 85 degree temps lately...

Gotta Love Stanley!

In spite of those temps, if I could convince the bride to move to Challis or Salmon, I would do it in a heartbeat!

I hear ya. If I could swing it, Challis/Salmon or even Stanley would suit me fine.


EDIT: I just bought a nice down bag rated to -40*F and I am itching to go up that way and try it out. Stay cold, dang it, stay cold!

I never got anything hot with a Bic lighter, other than the hand I was using to shield the wind with. I know that people love them, but not me. A Zippo will work,in the wind.

My motivation for outdoor tasks seems to end at -20, other than grabbing another arm load of firewood. I've been in -45 ambient, just no fun and have been in -30 ambient with the wind chill dropping it to -90 and I understand why the native peoples have multiple names for cold. You can also appreciate that extreme cold is a palpable dangerous force not to be trifled with.

-20F on a calm day in the sunshine is 10x better than 0 and wind.


This past December I was out doing something and it was COLD and windy. After a few minutes my nose started burning but I still had to walk back to the pickup. Started walking backwards and by the time I got in to warm up my beak was itchy burning.

It was very sensitive to the touch for a week or ten days later. Felt like a huge zit forming in the center of my nose.

The wind is no joke!

I was in Omaha last week. Temp wasn't bad (+9 degrees F), but the wind was up (35+ mph), so it was just brutal. I like Omaha, but the wind gets worked up across the plains and once in the tall buildings is in your face no matter which direction you face.

And it's a wet wind.

THIS ^^^^

I keep one in my work shirt, and another for after work wear.

In the last couple weeks I've heated the hooptie key to thaw the door lock, and thawed out the snap on the dog's lead after my wife uses a cup of warm water to thaw it.........which then freezes it solid.

I am not sure where it is now, it used to be where the old Hwy Dept shed was (approx where the City building is now) but quite a few years ago they moved it to where the local Forest Service Hdqtrs is located, a few miles south of town. Stanley used to make the national news quite often for having the low temps in the nation but since the weather station move it doesn't occur quite as often. Back many years ago I kept the temp recordings there but that was before the automated stations when it was done by daily notation.

The coldest I can remember seeing in Stanley was -48, the coldest I have ever seen was -58 in Thule, Greenland. I have often heard folks say that once it is -20 after that it doesn't make any difference - having been exposed to temps well below that I respectfully beg to disagree with them.

drover

Run your rifles/shotguns dry as can be with no oils. After cleaning them to bare metal, I have found that Hornady One-shot Gun Cleaner and Lube can be used without any harm. It goes on "wet" but drys out and leaves dry lube behind.

Always leave the guns outside for the entire season.

And never lock your vehicle doors during the winter. But if you do, having a keyless electronic fab that you keep inside your shirt always works.

Imagine welding critical piping systems, those with crazy high sulfur content. It ain't easy. We had to enclose the weld zone, provide heat, let a lone the weld pre-heat, to meet specs. Most folks are clueless on this.

Asked my friend where he got that temp info I referenced in my original post, and he said it was from the station at the forest service office.
Totally agree with you on the 'doesn't make any difference'. Tis Nonsense.
I did a solo winter backpack trip behind Redfish lake last Xmas(2015) and saw temps of -30 at night with around -10 during the afternoon? That 20 degree diff. was very noticeable!

Meh, as long as the water keeps running and TV works... grin.




Clark

Until it gets cold enough that a bic lighter won't work.....

I, fortunately, was a senior manager on the project so had my own room. No TV, no internet and no radio for 28 days. I don't recall a water issue. I do recall leaning against my left side on the outer wall of the ship being immediately awakened as it was cold azz outside.

There was the camp in Qatar where I turned off the heat to my hot water heater to store 40 gals of air conditioned water in my room. My folks thought I was brilliant for that.

30 below in Teton village this morning just before sun up. I don't know about my guns and ammo, but I can surely tell you that I don't work well when it's that cold.

If you have a good pair of Carhart bibs and jacket and there isn't much of a wind, you can tolerate that kind of cold for sometime.

It's usually your feet and hands that make you go in after awhile. But there are boots and gloves made for that also.

Old rancher born and raised outside Izee Oregon, 4100 ft elev, not far from Seneca where -58 has been recorded, said in his experience, that once passed -10F, each 10 degrees colder is a whole 'nother level of frigid.

I think of some of the fur brigade journeys I've read of. SOB, fug that! Modern comforts are swell.

If it makes you feel any better, I almost needed a long sleeve shirt this weekend in Tucson.

Ha! The sun came out today and it reached 6 degrees..............and it felt warm!

I don't set a parking brake in winter unless necessary.

Here's yesterday's view along the Snake River with Idaho on the far side of the ice. It looks much grander in person, it's ONLY this short section of road that's managed to remain bare enough for the deer and few remaining chukar. The rest of the county is buried under snow.
[img:left][/img]

I remember long ago, reading in an old trappers journal about Indian kids, playing on a frozen lake and the real little ones sitting on a buffalo robe, naked, watching them, and laughing and hollering. Well below zero, somewhere up North in Montana or Wyoming. Been a long time since I read it. miles

In my Midwest days, I've spent an entire week up in North Dakota on business, when the temps and windchill were some gawd awful crazy numbers.....

Get back home to Minneapolis, where the temps were in the 20 below range and its hard to believe that seemed almost balmy...where you could go outside to check the mail in short sleeves....

been up there a few Januarys all week long, where the company would call and wanted to know why I used so much fuel for the week.... they didn't understand the concept of "I didn't turn my car off all week".....

just locked it up and left it running.... filled it back up once it got down to half a tank....

sure was glad to own a good old Volvo Wagon in those cold temps...one hell of a heater on those cars...

The Burlington Northern Special Agent in Whitefish told me that in the early '80s he had contact with two Indians from Browning who had just arrived, they rode on an open car dressed only in shirt, pants and shoes. It was 20F in Whitefish at the time, no doubt much colder, plus wind chill, going over the pass. They did not appear to be suffering from it.

A guest down at the ranch here one winter was a rancher/outfitter from the Yukon. He was telling me that a couple of weeks before, they had a week or so when the temperature never got above -40 F. I asked him what he did with his cows when it was that cold, thinking that they might have put them in a barn or some other kind of shelter.

He said that they just left them in good winter pasture that had protection from the wind. He also said that in those temperatures, he had to lay the hay right at the cows' front feet because they wouldn't walk even a few steps to get to it! Not for me!

mudhen;
Good morning to you sir, I hope this finds you and yours well and in keeping with the thread - warm enough too.

Way back when I seem to recall that the cattle operations on the prairies had wind break fences put up - sometimes maybe in an L shape?

Anyway I was told that horses and I want to say cattle too, are able to generate enough heat if they've got a full belly. The trick with horses was to have cold enough feed that they'd be able to munch away throughout the day and it not have an adverse affect on them.

Some of the guys fed straw even in winter as I recall - just to keep the gut going and then hay as well of course.

Sam or one of the other cold weather ranchers can perhaps comment if cows run the same way as horses that way - it makes sense that they would, but I'm not 100% certain on that.

All the best to you all this week mudhen.

Dwayne

All the best to you

Dwayne,
Been seeing lots of cows and a few horses in the pastures in my area and they seem to do ok? Though it hasn't been much colder than, say, -10F?

340boy;
Good morning to you sir, I've meant to say hello and welcome back before this and apologize for taking so long.

I believe that the statement made earlier in the thread is quite on the mark in that every 10 degrees drop makes a substantial difference to anything living/working in it - man or beast.

We're spoiled here in that the coldest I've seen it in the last 33 years was about -13°F, but it's funny that one gets acclimatized to it and now even 0°F feels really cold to me when I'm out working in it.

Anyway sir I really just wanted to wish you the best and say it's good to see you posting again.

Dwayne

I was pretty impressed that the Browning Strike Force game camera that a bunch of y'all recommended was still functioning and had only used about 20% of its battery power in 2 months. I need to move the camera up, though, before it gets buried by the snow. (P.S. Glad we passed on going that weekend.)

U CANT , have pics of soft water WATER and say its cold....just saying... Unless u are in yellow stone

You can avoid all the fuss with the lighter by planning ahead and using a little Lock-ease. I keep some handy in this kind of weather in case someone else's lock is frozen. One squirt in the keyhole frees it right up. -19f the other night, and no problem getting in the truck to drive home after a 12 hour shift.

Rem - what part of the Snake is that? I haven't been getting over to the Steck Park stretch like I used to, but I've never seen it freeze up so smooth like that. Usually, there, it's all jammed up with pressure ridges by now.

+1. As much fun as it is to prove how tough you are... it isn't.

Been stuck in colder and it is doable, but simple things become problematic quickly. Thank god for bunny boots!

What are you guys wearing for boots? I went snowshoeing this weekend and spent the night woke up to -10 temps. I was wearing an old pair of Rocky pack boots that had froze solid overnight. Looked like I was wearing high heals until they thawed enough to allow my feet to slip the rest of the way in.

I wear a set of mountaineering boots with the really cold overnights. These have liners, which I can remove and keep in my sleeping bag at night. They are usually completely dry by morning(my feet really sweat). Much better than dealing with frozen boots.

EDIT: I have heard that some guys will put those chemical foot or hand warmers in their boots overnight, supposedly helps dry them out?

Petes propane shoe dryer is your friend...

Mudhen and Dwayne, wind protection is critical. Whether it be man made or natural, if you're going to winter cattle around here you should absolutely provide them with a place to escape the wind.

Our little feedlot has 'miles' of windbreak for the calves and the cows winter in the river or creek bottoms where there is plenty of coulees, brush and trees.


The horses get all the grass hay they can eat out of a round bale feeder. The cows are fed once a day and I try to match the tonnage to the temps.

There are formulas for feed requirements and temp changes but I basically give them all they can eat. If I find leftovers the following morning I'll cut back the amount of round bales.

And of course you have to factor in the feed value/TDN(total digestible nutrients) of what you are providing them to eat.

Alfalfa and hay barley are gonna have way more protein/TDN compared to grass hay or straw.


It's amazing how much more they will eat when it's cold.


We put out around 20 ton of feed and straw one day during an extreme cold snap and they pretty much ate it all. That's almost double what they'll consume now that it's warmed back up

Around here, there are few natural trees and thus few windbreaks for cattle.

But that is cured by creating windbreaks with stacks of round bales either two or three layers high. Butted end-to-end, one can create as much windbreak as needed anywhere you want it. Either using junk bales that end up as bedding by springtime, or with good hay bales that the cattle chew on throughout the winter.

By spring calving season, much of the stacks have been eaten or knocked down, and it gives the calves dry bedding areas right up next to the falling-apart bales. The calves stay dry, warm, and out of the wind that way.

The only issue I see is that those bale areas become weed beds the following couple of years because of weed seeds in the bales dropping to the ground.

That's upstream of Brownleee Dam, on the 40 something mile Snake River Road between Huntington and Richland.

I would be worried about the upper level toppling over onto da cows.

It would block the wind but concentrate the cows too much for me.

You know the pigs would push around while feeding and step on calves laying nearby.


Twine/wrap(remove?) could create issues.

That explains it. Little surface current there. I've never driven that road in winter. Just done the Council/Kleinshmidt/Huntington loop in summer/fall.

Best way to function in sub zero weather is to stay inside where it's warm.

Great report, Mac!

While I have a fair bit of cold-weather camping/outdoors experience behind me, I've done little shooting in truly cold weather. I think my coldest hunting was done as a kid, hunting snowshoe hares on snowshoes with a .22 rifle, in Alberta and on the farm back in Saskatchewan before that. My uncle taught me to clean the bolt/firing-pin and raceway with varsol when winter came, which he said made my bolt-action more reliable than his Winchester pump. Anyway, bunnies met their makers just as reliably at -30 to -40 as they did in the summer, I found.

Never did get a chance to use a pistol in such frigid temps.

I do know, from a couple of my patients back in Wisconsin who served with the 5th Marines at Chosin reservoir, that the M1 Garand and 1911A1 pistol both functioned well in extreme cold once they were stripped of all lube, as did the M1 Carbine. But unlike the Garand and the 1911, the carbine exhibited poor terminal performance... Chinese soldiers could absorb multiple hits from a carbine before they died. Makes me wonder if the carbine cartridge was more affected by the cold due its smaller size, or what?

Anyways. Thanks for your good report.

Gloves can be a real problem in the cold with revolvers, too. I'm surprised Ed-of-too-many-letters didn't mention that in his post about firearms training in Alaska, actually.

I conducted some cold-weather training for a concealed carry article I wrote years ago. I learned, like you, that Glocks are prone to malfunctions when I wear a heavy glove, as are revolvers. The first shot is usually fine, but then as the trigger comes forward the glove fabric/leather gets jammed between the trigger and the frame and turns your expensive & fancy-pants gun into a crummy club that is now welded to your hand.

After that experience I took to wearing light & tight gloves in the winter, with either a heavier pair of gloves or a pair of mittens over that. I used to wear Hatch gloves, but they became obscenely expensive in short order. I've found that "Mechanix" brand work gloves are a good, tight fit, and passably warm for brief cold exposure in what passes for winter in most of the Lower 48.

The people who say there's "no difference" between -20 and colder temperatures are 1) ignorant of real cold and 2) fools. Anyone who had had to work/live in truly cold locations knows there is a very real difference between -20 and -40; and -50 is ten times colder than -40; and -60 is so cold it defies description. At -40 you can function with a moderate amount of warm clothing; at -50, a 10 mph breeze will cut through a winter grade down jacket like a knife; at -60, you need leather and fur to survive prolonged time outdoors.

Metal fatigue at such temps can be critical. At -60 a crescent wrench will snap off as you try to loosen a nut on a bolt, and the valve on the top of a 100-pound propane canister will break right off if you tap it with a ball-peen hammer. I've had the first thing happen personally, and I saw the second happen from close enough to witness it, and far enough away I wasn't killed or badly burned like the other guys were.

Dwayne... thanks for your input, it's always nice to hear from a fellow prairie boy when the talk turns to real cold!

On our family farm in Saskatchewan our cattle were all dairy cows, so they were never that far from the barn. Just a standard wood barn, not insulated or anything fancy... but the milking stalls (we milked by hand, only 14 head) were across from the pig pens and the ceiling was low, and even when it got down to the -40's it was warm enough in there to take off your overcoat and milk in coveralls. Uncle used to complain about how much feed & hay they would go through, though.

The neighbors had beef cattle, and as I recall Mr. Crawford had cowsheds with a roof and 3 walls, open to the east, and his beeves did just fine in those sheds even in the coldest weather. But it was a b!tch starting the tractors to drag hay out to them! We'd boil big kettles of water on the stove in the house, carry then out to the tractor, pour the water into the radiator, and then start them. When we finished the chores we'd drain the radiators so we could hot-start them the next morning.

Doc;
Top of the morning to you sir, I hope this finds you all doing well.

As I was reading your post about "no difference between -20° and -40° I had to wince a tiny bit as the memory banks began to tumble open again.

We used to get some stupid cold snaps in late January or early February that'd make life tough for daily chores for sure.

One year we had three railway producer grain cars to fill - they just pull the cars off on a track siding and you self fill. The siding was in a little town about 20 minutes away in summer, so we had a half hour road time either way with our semis and maybe a half hour fill/empty time at home and the siding. Filling the three cars was something like 4 days work if memory serves.

Anyway it got "up" to about -40° but was as cold as -44° as I recall. We just kept the auger tractors running once we got them running each morning, the same with the trucks of course. The stupid thing was that in those pre-synthetic oil days the transmission would get so stiff I could hardly shift it by the end of the trip.

We'd wrap the front of the truck with a tarp when we were filling and cover the back of the cab over International I was running as well to keep some heat in - so the transmission started the trip a bit warmer anyways.

I had this really good Arctic Cat brand face mask on that time, but it was cold enough in the wind I got frost bite on both eyebrows that week.

Steel breaking - like both front shocks on my cousin's pickup snapping like pretzels when he hit a snow drift. Snowmobile shafts snapping in similar manner.

Jumped into the cab of my brother's brand new 1977 F250 and spider webbed the entire seat. Remember those vinyl sort of seats in pickups back then?

Yah Doc, I can honestly say I don't miss the extreme cold much at all.......

Stay warm and have a good one Doc.

Dwayne

Sam;
Thanks for the reply and clarification sir.

You mentioned grass hay for the horses and for sure that lines up with what we'd do too. I should have said it better than "cold" feed - meant low alfalfa content for the horses.

I wasn't sure if you changed up the feed for cattle or just increased the ration - as you say you do. Makes sense.

When we first got into horses I was fortunate to be mentored by a chap who'd grown up looking after logging camp horses in New Brunswick way back in the day. To say Earl was a fount of knowledge was an understatement and we surely were enriched by the horse tips and knowledge he shared with us.

Thanks again sir and all the best to you folks.

Dwayne

Dwayne,

Great posts as always.

In regards to brittle metal and cold temps, this subject came up this last week, when we were doing the cold weather shoot.

My friend made a point to mention that AR-500 target steel, when shot in sub zero temps, at close range, is quite brittle and will shatter.

We were engaging steel rifle targets, but they were more than 100 yards out, and it was a non issue.

Your post reminded me of his admonition about brittle AR-500, so I figured I would comment about such and hopefully save someone an expensive target.

Hahaha! Dwayne, I'd forgotten about spider-webbing vinyl truck-car seats, but yeah, EVERYbody's vehicle had spider-web cracks in the seats from the cold!

And I'm not missing the cold these days, at all, at all, my friend... my fancy store-bought knees don't ache so bad here as they did on Wisconsin winter mornings, nor do all my OEM joints...

Functioning in sub zero temps, whether *C or *F, is challenging !

After 11 years of acclimatization, from a sub tropical environment to current "home" conditions, I can definitively say that I am now comfortable at -20* if dressed correctly, but add significant wind & things become uncomfortable quite quickly.

January/February generally bring us at least 2-3 weeks of -35* or below temps.

The only fun side of this is riding to work on "square" tires !

If you can get the vehicle started !

Block heaters & the best battery you can buy are important.

Synthetic oil helps, but you need to have it in the transfer case & differentials too, or have extra oil pan heaters !

Oh, & my garage gets really busy, when it's really cold.

Power steering issues, wiper transmissions, window regulators, batteries & heating/cooling system issues !

Yep, & all plastic gets really brittle.

Well, God bless and good luck with that!!!

Actually, as much as we do acclimatize, I think there's something about growing up in a climate that makes you more comfortable than someone who moves there later in life. I noticed more than a few times during my 15-year Wisconsin sojourn that my tolerance of cold seemed considerably more robust than that of my Cheesehead friends... but considerably less so than my friends in Alberta who had grown up in the NWT.

Now I'm learning the opposite end of that spectrum, acclimatizing to Gulf Coast heat and humidity... but I'm committed to doing it well!!

Don't forget a battery blanket and/or maintenance trickle charger!

Doc, when cold, you can normally put enough clothes on to go out in public, when hot & humid, you can't take enough off to be comfortable, without getting arrested !

bender;
Top of the morning to you sir, I hope this finds you and your fine family well.

A good friend who now resides in Whitehorse used to live in Dawson City and did a daily commute up to a mine 90 odd miles north of town. I should mention he's an industrial electrician by trade.

Anyway in his old '90's Cummins he had a battery blanket on each battery, the stock block heater and some sort of oil pan heater hooked up too.

I asked about power consumption on the setup and he replied, "Oh yah Dwayne, the lights of town go dim when I plug her in, but it's the only way she'll start!"

All the best to you all this year ironbender.

Dwayne

There is something to be said for a heated garage The one upside of my kid totaling my truck and now driving a sedan is I have a vehicle that fits in the garage. It was a balmy -16 this morning, heard it's a bit chilly on the peninsula as well though nowhere near the interior chill.

As far as the bad things that can happen with cold. I remember a group I worked with on the slope that lost a few transmissions at -50. Turns out the seals shrank, fluid leaked out and auto transmissions don't live long when run dry.

LOL, Dwayne!

Yup Paul, -28 this AM. Cold is forecast to go away by the weekend. I'm too old for this chit anymore!

'Bender, was -34 here last week, -23 over the weekend & warmed up to - 4 & sunny at the moment.

Roads have turned to slushy sheidte !

Headed to the republic of Kalifornication tomorrow, to board a 7 day/night cruise to Mexico.

Una mas cerveza/tequila por favor !

We're on -52F this morning......gonna bring the brass monkey in off the lawn.

Vern, don't touch his balls !

I don't have a listing for AR500, but high strength spring steels are generally recommended to not go much below 0°F. Nickel alloys and stainless can go much lower, but the hard stuff is really expensive.

Reminds me I owe Sandcritter for a steel target I shot with a .300 Weatherby. It bent it

Are those temps *C (Canuck )?

i lived in Fbx for 18 years. I don't want that kind of cold no more!

Enjoy the cruise. Should not be too awful.

Good point, Mike. Fat is required also. Combine both a cheese stick and a candy bar, and you have some good fuel for the night, certainly.

Yes, *C, but at -32*, they are roughly the same !!!



Enjoyment is a given, 4 family in a group of 10 friends.

Yeah man, will you look at that !

I just remembered something from grade 10, high school biology.

Gots ta feed the mitochondria !

That was 35 years ago.

Down to 60 here

,..supposed to be almost 70 here Saturday. I'm headin' to the range.

No disrespect to you people who live up on the tundra,...but just knock me in the head on the day that I have to move someplace where you have to wrap ya car up in an electric blanket from Halloween to Memorial Day.

Bristoe, it's mostly just bored whining(from me) regarding the cold.

It's really not that bad unless you actually have to be outside working. Or if something freezes up, or breaks down, or it's windy....

And hey, winter certainly seems to aid in keeping a certain group of riff raff from moving in.


It's just a bunch of Scandinavians and Indians around here!

The thing is it's not that cold for the entire winter. I usually bitch more about warm snaps melting the snow, freezing rain and the stuff that ruins winter.

A cold snap for a couple weeks isn't a bad thing. Typically it coincides with brilliant blue skies and 100+ mile views.

Yeah, & you can actually have lots of fun in winter !

sub zero hunting;

Fishing;

Lott, exactly!

You really do get acclimated and forget that it's even 'cold'.

The warm ups and cool downs are a pain.

Powder is way easier to deal with than friggen' ice.

Teens up into the 30's today and a guy didn't really even need gloves, a hat or a coat. It's truly amazing how the body adapts and adjusts itself. And first time without long johns in a long while!




Paul, you and your wife are winter warriors!

Snow machining;





Snow boarding;



Good time to build schidte !



Go to work & shift snow;

Sam, we just choose to embrace whatever life throws at us !



Both turned 50 this year & can still have fun & run with the kids !

Oh, & we do cook a lot in depth of winters grasp.

Great stuff Paul!


I hear you on the cooking/eating/drinking during the long nights.

And I've been chasing my wife around the house like a rutting bull moose.....laughing

Me too. I embrace it by gettin' on I-75 and going to Florida.

Headin' down there in February. By the time I get back, spring will be knockin' on the door in the Bluegrass.

Agreed on all counts! I enjoyed winters on the prairies, even with the deeper cold, than the warmer wopinters in Wisconsin. It gets just warm enough in Wisco to make lots of ice, and I hate ice!

We don't get ice here on the Gulf Coast. Me likey.

Not sub-zero but 4 degrees. I almost drown during a duck hunt a few weeks ago.

Driving wind blowing from the North. I launched my kayak to recover some ducks I'd shot. Water was calm in the lee of the North shore cliffs, but when I got out further the wind caught the kayak, lost sight of shore in the fog, water turned to whitecaps, and I was not able to fight my way back into the lee of the cliffs. Stupid! Stupid! Stupid! I was forced to take a tack where the whitecaps wouldn't breech into the boat.
More than an hour later I made it into the surface slush that had not yet turned to ice in the flooded tamarisks on the West end of the reservoir. From there I worked my way to solid ground which took about another 45 minutes.

The REALLY scary part came when I was safe on shore. My light kayak had built up so much ice that it was too heavy to pull up the slope of the shore. I knocked more than 150 lbs of ice off the boat and realized I had been riding way too low in the water for the choppy conditions that day. It wouldn't have taken very much more ice to do me in ... and all to try to recover a stupid duck.

-50 here today if any of you boys have an itch to test some cold weather gear, come on up

Good whether for sitting by a roaring fire sipping a glass of good whiskey.

Not much good for anything else, but nothing ever wrong with enjoying an adult beverage of two by the fire.

A fella does have to stay active !!

neoprene rocks!.....

LOL! I can identify! One of my three kids was conceived in the middle of a long, dark, deep winter cold snap. You eventually get tired of beer and you can only watch so much hockey, y'know...

Yikes!!!

Alamosa, that's a closer shave than I ever want to have! Cold water combined with cold air can become a lethal combination in short order. Sure glad to hear you came through all right! I would have been terrified.

My best friend and I fell through ice on a frozen creek when we were 15. Fortunately there was a second layer of ice under the first (this happens in western streams due to fall drought conditions followed by heavy snowfalls in early winter), so we only went in hip-deep. It was 50 below zero that day, if we'd gone all the way in I doubt we'd have survived. As it was, the 2-mile walk back to the cabin was all we could manage. Fortunately the other kids ath the cabin had a fire blazing in the stove and they were able to help us out of our frozen-solid clothes... our fingers were useless. My friend was delirious and I could hardly speak or even think. It was hours before I felt halfway warm again.

Cold water and cold air are a deadly combo.

Yeah. Me too. Love the RONRW and the Salmon.

I rolled a canoe in the Snake River in Mid October a couple of years ago. Temps in the mid 30s. Came up on the wrong side of the river. Took two hours for Search and Rescue to get a raft to me so I could get to the other side. That was more than enough for me. Glad things worked out for you Alamosa!

Jay-zus, SRM!! That was a close shave!

What kind of clothing did you have on, wool, fleece, etc? Worth knowing, IMHO...

Jeans, 50/50 cotton/poly sweat shirt, fleece jacket. I had a survival kit in my jacket pocket but it disappeared as I tumbled through the rapids. There were people on the other side of the river in short order but it still took time for the raft to show up. In the interval between my hunting partner heading out to get help and people finally arriving, maybe 20-30 minutes, even knowing that help was coming, it was damn scary. Proved to me that mental attitude is the most important thing in that sort of situation. In hind sight, one thing I should have asked for as I was standing on the wrong side of the river was a road flare to start a fire. The river has a very narrow spot there that they could have tossed one across.

Also should have been wearing a float coat but gee, the river was only 25 yards wide where we were crossing. Not big deal right? Dumb!

A friend is the River Manager for the Forest Circus. He and a co-worker rafted the river the next day, in dry suits, and retrieved the canoe from a rock. Rifle camping gear everything else is on the bottom of the river.

SRM,
That's scary! The one time I ever had hypothermia was after I had fallen into a creek in the middle of winter. Long story, but if I hadn't had my brother along with me, I would have been a goner. Cold and water. Bad combination.
Glad you made it OK!!

I can highly recommend deep knee bends to generate body heat!

And it's a weird feeling pissing pure adrenaline for days.

You know it! I've spent a few nights in the high mountains stuck in a bivy sack doing knee bends to help keep warm. Knee bends, doze off, waking up shivering, knees bends. Repeat as necessary.

Love seeing pics of that dog.

This is huge.
It sounds easy sitting at a keyboard but I think the mental aspect is the really critical part.
I believe mental attitude is the reason that many don't manage to save themselves.

Most who find themselves up a creek know the steps they must take ... usually methodical, persistent moves with no more screw-ups, but there is this huge temptation to do something impulsive, power on through danger, or to second guess the moves that logic tells you are correct.

Glad you are still with us to tell the story.

You mean like that first thought, I'll just jump back in the river I just barely got out of and swim back across?

Any of you guys use G96? I've used it exclusively for years now, so far no cold related failures.Coldest I've used it is at -32, coyote hunting with my old 11-87. Got a chance at 2 coyotes towards the end of the hunt so had been out for some time and the gun functioned. Seemed to cycle a bit slower than usual but cycle it did. Read a report from the Canadian police(RCMP) on a test they did to determine which products to use for lube/cleaning and G96 came out on top in the cold weather test I believe. Plus it smells even better than Hoppe's...

Are you using the original G96 or the newer synthetic version?

We hit a heat wave today of 31 degrees, and it was short sleeve time.

It's hard to watch the wildlife struggle right now. Today I saw three mule deer leave a county road and bound across a field to get away from me, and the snow was over their backs.

I'm hoping I get to test some of that type gear with you someday Paul.

I have been using the G96 Gun Treatment for years with good results.
The factory says it is good down to -50 degrees.

http://www.mcssl.com/store/c0e84d9548e54592a9555a19c32338/gun-treatment-and-gun-oil/gun-treatment

Sounds like a plan. You ever make it down this way make sure you say hi.