You know the market is messed up when Tesla is bigger than GM and Ford.

There are several Teslas running around in Jackson Hole. They're good looking cars and the performance specs are pretty impressive. I don't know about actual real world battery life and maintenance costs, but they seem to be getting better all the time.

I don't think the whole electric car thing is for me, but for a large portion of the population, I think they make an awful lot of sense.

A bunch of people investing money hoping to get rich. I would guess that they have not sold a billion dollars worth of cars total.So now they are worth 50 billion? ED K

Although Tesla probably has a future in the auto industry, they are one of the shining examples of an incredibly oversold market..........


Casey

At $100,000+ per vehicle they don't have to sell as many cars to reach 1 billion dollars sold. Besides they're not as worried about selling cars as they are getting capital contributions from Google and all the Silicon Valley techies. Investors are tripping over themselves for the privilege of giving Tesla money in order to brag to their liberal buddies about their contribution to a greener world.

Tesla was not a bad place to put money into. Probably still isn't.

I'd rather smack a body appendage on an anvil with a ball-peen hammer than own a Tesla or any of the other "hybrid feel good" tree hugger cars

Tesla isn't.

Not even close.

Look at the numbers of cars Ford & GM make, vs Tesla.

It was a market percentage comparison.

Great for golf cart like trips, but until they can run out 400 miles and return without refueling I'll stick with my 350 crew cab diesel.

As the technology and market advances, one can bet all the makers will be in.

Tesla markets direct, without dealerships. In some states, car companies have managed to get laws passed outlawing direct sales of new cars. Tesla can't sell in those states.

I think they're close to that benchmark, 300+ mile range. Even if they did 600 miles without charging I'd still take the diesel. How else does one get the sweet smell of diesel exhaust otherwise? Not to mention that a tow bar isn't standard on a Tesla. 😬

As of about a year ago, Elon Musk had raked in $4,300,000,000 in taxpayer money ala gubmint subsidies.

http://www.breitbart.com/2016-presi...on-musk-wins-by-gaming-the-subsidy-game/

Always looking for a good investment, so I checked out Tesla.

The PE is -64.61.

Lotsa P and no E.

No thanks

kd

I don't think you can go from Seattle to Spokane without stopping in Ritzville to recharge.

My point is that it's market capitalization is bigger. Market capitalization being outstanding stock shares times the stock price. In other words, the stock market has it valued higher than GM and Ford, even though they have no where near the sales volume. That's why I said the market was messed up.

The stock market has both Tesla and GM "valued" at about $51 Billion.

In the trailing 12 months, this is what the company sales revenue was:

GM- $166 Billion
Tesla- $7 Billion

In the trailing 12 months, this is what the gross profits was:

GM- $21.4 Billion
Tesla- $1.6 Billion

No use for a Tesla. With my pickup, I can hook up a pretty good size trailer and head down the road. When I get low enough on gas, I can pull into a gas station and "recharge" the gas tank in about 15 minutes.

They are in the throes of building a dealership twenty or so miles from here so Texas is not one. I see a bunch of them around here.

A day late...

Tesla claims to have 400,000 orders. So they sell 400,000 cars to folks who can afford a $100k car, then what? Where's Tesla's market after that?

Or what happens when other car makers start building electric cars for half the price?

They have "showrooms" in those states where they can't sell direct. They can show the car, test drive the car, even service the car, but they place any order through a seller in another state.

Market valuation has nothing to do with past performance, and everything with future performance. The market thinks that Tesla will grow nearly exponentially, and GM won't.

This.

It's cost them more to make the model S than the sales price. According to the former head of GM, cost do not drop as quickly as price, so he doesn't see how they can make money on the Model M either.

At some point this will be a momentous short opportunity. First time they miss a capital raise this stock could be cut in half.

And sometimes the market is wrong.

lol!

I call BS. Maybe 4,000 orders.

When auto giants like VW start to take electric cars seriously, they will be producing them on such a scale and price point,
that Tesla will just shrivel up and die.

People have tried to tell me how great Teslas future is, but they wont put their house on it... enough said.

VW will offer cheap mass market elec. cars the size of a Golf or Passat and also top-end
well established luxury market elec. cars, ...because VW GROUP owns- Audi, Porsche, Bentley, Bugatti, Lamborghini.

The day Im ready to buy a proper elec. car, it wont be a Tesla.

Porsche-E, 300+ mile range , 15 minute charge.
http://www.businessinsider.com/pors...es-us-a-hint-of-what-will-come-in-2020-1

These electric cars might work OK in warmer areas of suburbia but not worth a bag of beans in colder rural areas.. Conversation piece, basically..

And bring yer wallet when (not if) it becomes time to change those batteries..

Distances in much of the West are just too great for electrics to be practical. They might be ok in cities but most car owners like to use them outside of town, too.

I have not checked this year but last year there was no dealer close enough to where i live in North Dakota to even make it home with if i bought one. Overnight charge up would be needed. No thanks. ED K

I drove my BIL's P90D last January.

I do the long range driving thing fairly regularly, so it's not for me, never mind the price tag.

But man, that thing is a rocket ship. Nothing, but nothing I've ever been in came close. Including a nowhere near stock big block '69 Camaro. Then there was the Lambo Diablo 5.7 liter...

Supposedly they'll do 0-60 in 2.8 seconds. I don't know about that. I do know that 0-100 came in under 8 seconds by the stopwatch.

Oh, and the P100D is even faster: http://www.hybridcars.com/tesla-p100d-does-0-60-in-2-54-seconds-0-100-in-6-52/

Often mistaken, but never wrong.

The difference between GM and Tesla is the same as the difference between Sears and Amazon. One is shrinking and trying to hang on to their fading glory, while the other is changing the world around it.

GM is hanging on to it's old Glory. Tesla is changing the world around it. For example, Tesla will unveil it's Semi Truck in September. Where's GM's ?

https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/247707-tesla-plans-sell-trucks-big-semis-pickups

Gm is manufacturing over 9 million vehicles and making money, while Tesla can't make the Model S for it's sales price.

Selling something for less then manufacturing cost is called a flawed business model.

There's no comparison between Jeff Bezos and Elan Musk. Musk is a dreamer. Bezos is an executor.

Musk dreams about changing the world. Bezos IS changing the world.

Like riding a bronc that ain't bucked yet. Risky business, if you ask me.

At some point I intend to make a lot of money on Tesla....on the short side.

Short Amazon?

No way.

Lets wait see how tesla trucks survive in the coming decades against motor tech giants like
Mercedes-Daimler and VW Groups M.A.N. and Scania electric trucks.

Scania are testing wireless inductive charging from under the roads surface. and also testing 'old-fashioned'
pantograph overhead wiring for mains power supply on highways, which also charges batteries for the times
when the truck needs to travel off the highway.

Freightliner (Mercedes) has been dicking around with hybrid vehicles, but they are just modified standard trucks. None of the big manufacturers of either passenger vehicles or class 8 vehicles have a full-up electric vehicle that makes customers happy.

For more than 10 years, Jeff Bezos' Amazon strategy of "get big first" was ridiculed. Sears was making money, and Amazon lost money, quarter after quarter after quarter. Amazon had that dreaded negative PE for years. Then, after 15 years of hard work, Amazon was "successful" and Bezos was an "instant success".

I'm not buying Tesla (I don't do individual stocks), but I would not bet against Elon Musk with my own money. There are too many extremely happy customers.

I wonder how that will work out for cold weather, back woods hunting. It'll likely be an urbanmobile.

I was surprised by the number of Tesla charge stations in Wyoming and Colorado.

Never saw an actual Tesla though.





Dave

Tesla touts a nation wide fast charger network. I looked at their SUV last Fall. If purchased before the first of the year, the vehicle came with free charging station access. They claimed they'd begin charging a fee, which would be less than the cost of gasoline, in January. At the end of the day, the range was just too limited.

How long does it take to charge one? Do you have time to go eat while it's charging? I wouldn't be impressed with a car that I drive to town, then wait 30 min while charges so I can come home.

Tesla pick ups
http://newatlas.com/tesla-elon-musk-electric-semi-pickup-truck/49013/

Batteries are designed for -4F° -110F° and are also being used for powering homes with solar panels
http://newatlas.com/tesla-battery-powerwall/37283/
Tesla charging stations
http://newatlas.com/tesla-supercharger-cost/46309/
Tesla's new solar panel idea, in addition to the solar shingles
http://newatlas.com/tesla-new-solar-panels/48905/

The Doc who did my varicose surgery had a $100,000 Tesla- and had just bought a base model for his son... Both live in South-Central Alaska.

Can't see either the vehicle or the price myself, but then I'm che--um- economically minded.

Tesla...Would be worth nothing and would be bankrupt if not for Obama gov't funding.

Those stations are there because people from the coasts use them to get from one coast to the other. Tesla basically stuck superchargers every 120 or so miles on east/west interstates because the real range of the car is a bit over 120 miles. In other words, you can drive 120 miles and then have to stop for about 45 minutes to charge, then hit the road again.

I reluctantly admit that I bought a Tesla a few years ago. It made sense for us because we live in the SF Bay Area and there were a ton of perks, including access to HOV lanes, that cut my wife's 3 hour daily commute to about an hour.

Tesla makes a good urban car, but that's where it ends. I once, and only once, made the mistake of trying to drive the Tesla from the Bay Area to my land in Montana (near White Sulphur Springs). I drive fast when I can, so I was able to drive for about an hour and a half before I needed to hit a supercharger. Drive 1.5 hours, sit in a charging stall for 45 minutes, repeat for 1000 miles. NO THANKS. My truck has a 36 gallon fuel tank and goes 600 miles between fueling stops (assuming I don't have to take a piss break, but even then, it doesn't take me 45 minutes to piss).

No doubt about it, the Tesla is a very cool car, and very quick, and I have no doubt that electric cars will be the future. But they ain't the present, and when Tesla has to make a mass market, affordable car that actually works for the way most people drive, they are going to run hard into a brick wall. That time will be later this year, when they start delivering the Model 3.

One day, Ford, GM or some other car company will buy the assets of bankrupt Tesla and incorporate the very cool tech into a car that works for the masses.

How many cars can it build per year?

Bwahahaha

At 100,000 dollars I can buy 3 nice trucks. When they need a recharge I just use the nearest gas station.

It's a fad, it will pass just like all other fads.

I wouldn't own one of those metrosexual cars on a dare...

Our modern gassers didn't appear over night. If they keep working on it, they might come up with something really useful. It just takes a lot of work and money. Most of this high tech stuff is beyond the abililties of the back yard inventor.

They are becoming common on the roads here, but this is a unique pocket. Tesla dealer in the area and really aggressive lease options.
If you sit behind the wheel, you would like you were in a Lexus. Well appointed, nice styling, quiet. No issue with reliability have I heard about - yet.
Time will tell, but eventually lectric cars will rule. Electrice motors have the same HP and torgue from 0 to infinity. Better performace and less noise.

Agree with your analysis but a bunch of other people to date thought it was a great idea to short it and that is the reason it is where it is.......they got their nuts squeezed off. I think this is what happens every cycle. They start putting up a stock with no earnings and people look at it and say "no way", put on shorts, and armed with easily available short interest data, the big guys squeeze them, the momo guys buy the stock cause its going up and presto, you have a stock like Tesla valued more than GM and Ford.....and dead bears everywhere. Thus one of the great wall street cliches....."The market can remain irrational longer than you can remain solvent". Hell, this current cycle has given rise to etf's that attack "most shorted" names.

The current market reminds me of what I have read of the "nifty fifty" market of the 1970's except this time it is the so called "FANG" stocks which are holding up indexes like the qqq. When all of the computers try to get out at the same time and they break its gonna be a humdinger. Maybe we got a little preview last Friday. The wildcard this time around is going to be government intervention. Its hard for the market to run out of money when the fed prints it and gives it to them. No one knew what QE was in prior cycles but that is what makes the "its different this time" mindset. I think at some point they gotta crash it so they can buy it again just like always but timing is going to be critical and difficult. Reminds me of another cliche....."everytime I think I have the key to the market, some sonofabitch changes the lock"!

How do the batteries perform during below zero temperatures? Anyone know?

Good question. Not realy an issue in ATL. Hasn't been sub zero in my lifetime. Now when I lived in Michigan.....

I'd have to turn in my oilfield trash/baseball loving/copenhagen dipping card if seen in one of those things.

There are bunch around here and a new service facility has opened ~20 minutes from my house. I do not see them going away.

I'm thinking, in terms of an investment, Tesla's days are numbered. It has a beyond-ridiculous valuation. It's a niche company right now but it's basically doing the initial heavy lifting for the industry it's in. Once the charging infrastructure and initial technological hurdles are taken care of, a bunch of other companies like Ford, GM, Honda, Toyota etc, will jump in and make a similar product for half the price. At that point, who the hell in their right mind is going to pay 400 bucks a share for this company???

Maybe, but isn't that like saying that Walmart is going to just bowl over Amazon by getting into that space? That sure isn't happening the way Walmart wanted it to.....

There are very few examples of big, established companies that are able to enter new industry technologies and come out on top. GE under Jack Welch was one example. Even some companies billed as "innovation" companies are unable to adapt. Think Hewlett-Packard and even IBM. Most end up like smoking hulks on the side of the road of improvement....

Is it really better performance? Can they be used in mud and snow? A helluva lot of the country isn't at all like Atlanta, or other city, for matter. I can think of huge swathes of the country that don't have charging stations. Do any of them have the performance to go on a 500 mile one-way trip without charging it halfway along the journey? Could I drive one around in, for example, Chariton County, MO, or Todd County, SD, for a day without stopping to recharge the batteries? Those are profoundly rural areas, without much in the way of paved roads. Both places have cold, bitter, wet, muddy winters, can they handle that? Can they manage the snow up north in Minnesota or Wyoming?

To date, I have only seen ONE electric vehicle on the road here right outside Louisville, a Chevy Volt, driven by an oldtimer (even older than me), who only used it around the little town he lived in. It could NOT make a round trip to Louisville and back.

Maybe in the future they will be feasible, but there's a huge amount of work before they will "rule". I am NOT sold on a vehicle that ties me up with an extension cord. (Yeah, I know they don't use extension cords, but the main theme is the same).

I've seen the charging stations mandated by California in some of their national and state parks, but being tied to where charging stations abound doesn't seem like a smart thing, either. It's not likely Americans will wanna give up their independences achieved with fossil-fueled vehicles.

Just one of the few of Obama's recipients of tax dollars who hasn't gone bankrupt. Yet.

I've never been able to convince myself they are viable long term company. They make all there cars in one factory in the Bay Area of CA. Big earthquake or fire and they are toast.

The batteries do ok in below zero weather (there's loss, but not catastrophic loss). The real problem is that you lose a ton of range, fast, when you turn on the heater. The drive motor in a Tesla doesn't create heat to be used in the HVAC system. You can go through 100 miles of range in about 20 actual miles of use when it's cold and you have the heater on. It's pretty much a deal killer for anyone in colder areas who doesn't live close to a supercharger.

When you're start at about 1000% over priced and then you add competition of ANY amount, that's not an investment I want to hold.

In contrast, there are none around here, no service facilities and no charging stations. I see them for what they are, a city dwelling, liberal loving machines.

The oldest pictures I have of my grandfather are dated 1883. One shows him holding his driver, Nell, by the halter, the other he's seated on the seat of a sleigh with Nell harnessed, sleigh bells and all, and on the back is written, "Nell, dressed." On Uncle Earnie's mantle there was a picture of a team of white Percherons. He used to point it out as "My first tractor." Uncle Earnie, much as he loved horses, bought a Ford 7N in 1947. As a kid, some of my best memories were generated riding around in Gramp's 48 Chevy coupe. Both of those men lived through a time when folks trying to go from point A to point B by means of internal combustion engines risked derision and mockery (Get a horse!) at any one of a number of things that could go wrong with the vehicles of the day. They both, at some point, embraced progress. So shall we. I love my internal combustion engines...electric vehicles aren't there yet for most of us...maybe never will be for me. I turned 69 last Friday. Within the next 30 years I'll probably stop buying vehicles and just let the kids drive me around. You boys can go on and on about how impractical electric vehicles are, and they are, for many of us at present. That's going to change. Things always do.

I remeber in the mid to late seventies the Natural gas/Propane fad...........NG/PP was the future in auto fuel. This ain't much different except for the price.

Besides getting more miles out of a charge, they need serious work on how long it takes to charge one. I would never buy a car that took 30 min or more to fill the tank.

It's a fad...just like that danged smokeless powder....first off, it ain't really smokeless...second, it's dangerous, it'll blow a gun up if you don't take forever to measure it out...give me good ole black powder..scoop up a case full, seat a bullet and you're done. Don't even get me going on those newfangled automatic pistols....