looking for a used middle-weight cruiser for youngest son's high school graduation present (still can't believe wife suggested this). it would be his first bike. he is sensible, not a risk taker. doesn't like crotch rockets. he is about 5-7, 180 pounds, built like an oak. here are a couple of possibilities:
1) 1992 suzuki intruder 800, 25 k, adult owned, garage kept, asking price $2,500. it looks good. obviously well-cared-for.
2) 1995 yamaha virago 750, 2k (that's right, 2k), owned by very good friend, garage kept, down once lightly with minor grip rash; no price set but 'net market search shows $2,400 would be a very good price.
3) 1996 kawasaki 500 vulcan (straight up twin, not v-twin), excellent shape, 18k, $2,400.
4) 2003 kaw 500 vulcan, 2k, $2,900. (son doesn't like looks of the 500 vulcan, but he may have to get used to it).
trying to stay away from new for a first bike. any suggestions on other bikes? which one of these would you pick? i told him he can ride this one for a year or two, and if he still likes motorcyles and can afford it, he can buy his own fat boy, and i'll take the chump bike.

I have a Virago 750, so I'm partial to that bike. I think it's will serve him well.
You definitely don't want a crotch rocket for him.
The Virago 750 is a very sane ride, and tons of fun.
My 22 cents ( that's .02 with inflation <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />)
Don

Suzuki GS500 is a good starter, so I hear.

I'd also suggest the Virago. At his size, he needs a sizable bike. The 750 has enough power to get him out of trouble and heavy enough to provide some stability and cushion.

First road bike I ever bought was a Triumph Trident 750. The succeeding ones only got bigger. Now I have two HD's, one 1200 Custom Sporty and an Ultra Classic Tourer...

Glad to see another youngster getting into bikes. Do you have helmet laws there? Even if not, make sure he wears one for the first few years. And get him some GOOD leather riding clothes. Amazing how much skin that can save.

knocking on wood here, but I've not had an accident in 38 years of riding.

If you're going up to a 750, I'll throw out the Honda 750 Nighthawk. Now discontinued, but plenty on the used market.

Hmmmmmm First----have him take a MSF course period. A teenager with his fist bike needs to have the FORMAL training this provides <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/help.gif" alt="" />. Whatever you do buy make sure that the rubber is new as oxydation is hard on tires particularly those that have seen a lot of sun (the older bikes you mentioned should have new tires). The Sport Bikes contrary to what people will tell do not kill you any faster than any other type of bike. I have been down a few times and there are only 2 types of motorcycle riders those that have gone down and those that are going down <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />. The sooner you accept this the better off you will be as it is not a matter of if you are going down but when. Make sure that you get the proper riding gear (helmet, gloves armor etc)�this will cost quite a bit but get over it as the gear has saved me before and it will protect Junior as well.

I have had many bikes over the years from Ducati to the Haybusa to my beloved 2000 Fat Boy and they will all kill you if you are not cognizant of your and the bikes abilities then compound this by Joe Bob in his pick up who does not signal or look when he changes lanes (I drive a 4wd diesel too but I signal)! My current bike Boss Hoss has a Scott Shafiroff 540ci race engine 700hp and 700ftlb of torque that is because of the compromises to the engine to run a flat torque curve otherwise it would be over 800hp. I will email you the magazine article on it or you can see it in the spring edition of Chromed Out magazine. My bike weighs over 1600lbs and is an absolute monster with a 265x35x18 BFG Drag Radial on the back. You may not care for some of what I have to say on some subjects but this is one that that it would serve you and Juniors interest to pay attention to as I have been there and done that many times.

Careful when you look at my bike as it is a Skull Theme with lots of skulls (e.g. the headlight is a billet skull with the eyes the high beams and the mouth a low beam) but it is not demonic so it is safe for you to look at. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Been riding motorcycles since I bought my first at age 17,.... a long time ago.

I owned two until very recently,...sold one,.... selling the other as soon as it's repaired. I've lost too many friends to the things over the years,... two in the past three years.

What do I know about them?,.... hmmmmm,..... You don't really want to know,... but in my opinion, they're not a suitable toy for an 18 year old.

not toy, transportation.
might be a terrible mistake.
might not.
so, my post stands: what bikes do y'all recommend?
alabama does require helmets. it does not require an msc. but he WILL get training from an experienced rider, not me.

I'd buy the kid a 2wd Toyota pickup.

Reliable,affordable,versatile,safe,cheap to insure.

Bikes killed alotta my friends in my youth,very nearly including me................................

Should add,3 have been in wheelchairs since their late-teens/early 20's.

There's a pretty unforgiving trend,in motorcycles...............

Sorry but you are making a HUGE mistake! Now I have a clear conscience. I have lost 5 friends from high school and college�3 killed on motorcycles (2 without helmets and 1 hit the curb with his head at about 10 mph hardly a scratch on him but cracked his head like a melon dropped on the concrete was swollen twice its size before he died) 1 was a pilot in his own plane the other was Captain David Herr USMC killed in Desert Storm.

You don�t want to take all of the precautions available, training especially for something that is going to be used for transportation???? Hope you are pretty Good at praying because that boy is going to need all of the help he can get!! Maybe you should spend less time beatin the good book and research this subject a LOT more but you are the one who will have to live with it not me. In all seriousness good luck�the big V twin metric cruisers are stable, not too fast and reliable.

Been there did that and have the scars to prove it. I also lost a couple of very good friends to bikes. The Toyota sounds like a good deal to me.

My first choice would be the Virago of those listed.Second would be a Suzuki GS 450 on up.

Just got a set of decals for my friends 1990 Fat Boy.Creased the tank in the garage of all places <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

I put over 70,000 on street bikes in the 70s and 80s. Drove coast to coast twice. Only fell down 6 times. Some getoffs were really stupid, like gravel at a stop sign. All were small mistakes that became big ones once I fell. I ground my ass off when I fell on the freeway at 55 mph. Sure glad I didn't tumble. I finally wised up and picked safer ways to get around.

I must agree with some of the other posters. If you ride motorcycles, you will fall down. Wear all the safety gear you can. Gloves year round. Helmet EVERY time you get on. Boots and heavy clothing or leather.


I firmly believe your son needs to have many years behind the wheel of an automobile before he ventures out on the road with a "donor" cycle. A familarity with the rules of the road and getting lots of experience is, in my opinion, an absolute must before he rides motorcycles on the street. If he was a bicycle rider that would help too. Reading the textures and surfaces of the road is an important part of riding motorcycles.

Young people tend to get into more accidents, why add to the mix by supplying him with a machine that offers no protection?

Guess I won't be giving you advice on which cycle to buy......

You speak the truth about helmets and experience behind the wheel--if everyone drove a motorcycle for a year then we would have half the automobile accidents that we do! So many riders including some of my friends will not wear helmets period.

I was at one of my friends funerals and a few of us ride but we did not cry as he was eulogized. After all of the Boo Hooing was over we talked about it afterward and all had the same sediment �yeah it was a shame but he had on his helmet if he did he would be here drinking a beer with us. The helmet is just 1 component of gear you should wear. The jackets I wear are Vansons even my cruiser jacket is a competition weight Vanson and my gloves are armored and boots steel toed�would rather have to patch a nice jacket than replace my hide.

After thinking more about this�this kid does not need a motorcycle for basic transportation (yet with out training and experience) and if what I read was correct about his Mom then she has some serious issues with judgment as well. People just do not understand how inherently dangerous these things are and all of the �good book beatin� in the world is not going to keep this kid out of harms way so don�t depend on that. Look at the statistics for deaths and injuries for new riders (young and old) then one can begin to see that every precaution is needed.

Spend the money on a nice used truck.

Dittos on the truck.

I wouldn't have much grief if my kids wanting to race motorcycles, but riding a bike on the road is a whole different ball game. Way too many idiots on the road in cars to share them on a regular bace when you're on a bike.

The majority of motorcyle accidents aren't the fault of the rider, and doesn't matter how good the helmet and leathers if some bonehead in a suburban runs your boy over.

fellas:
i appreciate all the advice.
as for a normal 4-wheeled vehicle, he already has a square-eyed wrangler, so get-around transportation is not the issue. he's an excellent driver of such.
and i do realize there is a MASSIVE difference in safety between the jeep and motorcycle. i'm still shaking my head about my wife's support for the boy's desire for a bike.
y'all are making me re-think this. i have wanted a bike all my driving life. i'm almost 55 and still do not have one. keep talking myself out of it.
gnash teeth ... growl ... grunt ... think ...

"if everyone drove a motorcycle for a year then we would have half the automobile accidents that we do!"
true, hoss, but i think that would be mostly because we'd have half as many drivers ...

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> I am glad you are giving this more reflection as it is smething to be thought thru. My Dad always told me he would rather buy me a pet rattlesnake than a motorcycle. Guess what I bought at 19 and kept it and many others hidden from for the next 10 years. NO BS he hated them so much but I let him see behind the tarp in the garage one day and got it over with.

believe me, i am a reflection machine right now.

Fish,
Just to add some more reality to your thinking.
As the guys above have very well said..
I have buddy who loved motorcycles. As a young guy, he set out one night for some biking. He was travleing... And, he hit something on the road. He got thrown over the handlebars. You know how you do the touch your toes exercise, when you bend from the waiste down and are doubled over forward? Well, he got bent the same way, only backwards, bent in half.
He's been in a wheelchair ever since, and will be for the rest of his life.
He became one of the worlds greatest alcoholic's, and has lived a pretty miserable life by our standards..
Something to ponder..
I didn't buy a bike till I was much older and more responsible, so none of the dare devil stuff that young guys do. I know. I did wild stuff too as a young guy.
Don

I'd suggest your boy stick with the car. If it's a done deal, you ought to insist on training and all top of the line safety equipment.

Once upon a time I ate it on my bike doing 85+ in the city, and it killed me. Only for ten minutes though, I am happy to report. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> The paramedics were able to jump-start my heart and get the respiration going at some point after after they managed to lift the car I was wedged under and scrape my shattered and backwards-jackknifed body out. I don't remember this of course. A coma will do that to you, they say. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> I ended up losing my right lung, suffered multiple debilitating internal injuries as well as countless fractures and all the fun stuff that goes along with a high-speed wreck. The only thing that saved my life was that I was smart enough to have my Shoei racing helmet strapped on tight. Anyway, I have foot-long zippers on both front and back and mutiple scars and other minor deformities for my trouble. I got what I deserved, however, as it was a DUI wreck. Hard lesson for a 16 year old kid nonetheless. To add to that, I lost a friend
in a M/C wreck, and every single bikie I've known has been down at some point. Most, several times. As was stated earlier, it's not a matter of 'if', but 'when'.

All said, I'd not recommend for anyone who wasn't already tainted to get involved in M/C. Since that wreck I've owned a 900 Ninja, a 750 Interceptor, a KZ 1000 and my current ride, a Yamaha FJ 1200. It'll do a buck forty without too much trouble. Don't ask me how I know this...

My handfull of coppers on the matter. I must say in all frankness though, that I am shocked that your wife would encourage your son to have a bike. She's the first Mom I've ever heard of, outside of a dirtbike. If he does get one and God forbid, wrecks, well, I'd not want it to have been his parents that gave it to him...

Cheers,

L

I KNOW motorcycles,,, AKA donorcycles,,, do every one you love a favor and don't buy it for him, its not a question of "if he'll stack it up", but rather "when he'll stack it up". When that happens, you'll be dealing with a lot of issues, but the one you can prevent is knowing that you bought/encouraged it. Trust me on this, you'll never regret not buying it, but you will most certainly regret that you did. Opinions are like armpits, everybody's got a couple, and most of 'em stink,,, but that's mind and its given to you in a spirit of brotherly love.

I blew a rear tire on a 1100 Zuk...doing 5 mph pullin' outta a stop sign...the day after I out ran a County Cop...

Food for thought from my younger days....

Damn. Timing is EVERYTHING! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

There was a time things like that didn't cross my mind...

I'm older now and a bit wiser too...

Did you get my email?

I can understand wanting to live childhood dreams through your son, but getting him a scoot could be saddling him with the nightmares you didn't have by not riding.

I raced karts, and it's a great way to get ones need for speed out in a safe and affordable venue. Not toys, real racing vehicles capable of amazing speed depending on track and engine.

I keep contemplating getting a street bike myself, but my daily commute is a steady reminder of who I don't want to be on the road with, and our roads are much less crowded than most of the US.

nay, 458, i would not live my dreams through him. he has no interest in the bikes that interest me, nor the kind of riding that interests me. riding a british style enduro out of the 60s on fireroads is my cup of tea, not cruising with other cruisers.
we shall see, we shall see. this is a hard thing.

You already have yourself talked outta it.

Good move.....................

I wish you would speak to a guy that works with me every day, out of compassion I might add. He's far from being mentally capable after a bike crash several years ago and being in a comma for nearly two months. It�s a daily reminder of the danger of bikes and cars. Even if your son is safe he has no control over other drivers. Just Saturday I witnessed a car blow through a light that had been red at least 10 seconds and t-bone a car in the perpendicular lane. Had it been a bike that was t-boned the driver would have been dead for sure. It�s just not worth it.

Also, a guy up the road from me, in his mid 20's, hops around every day on one leg, the other amputated in a bike crash.....

A High School classmate lost his older brother to a motorcycle wreck. He ran a Honda 750 into a bridge abutment at 70 MPH. And another classmate is a quadraplegic after losing control of a big Kawasaki street bike at 100+ mph. Seeing what was left of the bikes and the boys riding them is something I'll never forget. You couldn't pay me enough to ride a motorcycle on the streets.

I'll add another vote for the pickup.

HBB

I have been riding on road and (mostly) offroad for 30 years. I managed a Kawasaki / Yamaha dealership in the mid 80's- mid 90's. I have friends that have died in bike accidents and i have a friend that is in a wheelchair for the rest of his life from a bike accident.
If you decide to get him the bike FORGET the experienced friend who will teach him to ride. INSIST on a Motorcycle Safe Rider Course. This will teach him a tremendous amount in a classroom and on the pavement. The experienced friend will do the best they can but most riders have some bad habits that they dont realize.
As for the bikes you have chosen they are all good bikes but, the Yamaha Virago is the pick of the litter.
You have a tough decision to make motorcycles are an awful lot of fun in all shapes and sizes. There is a lot of responsability that goes along with it.

.....I won't add alot of horror stories,enough have been mentioned. BUT not for my lack of them! I've ridden bikes since the 1960's. I've had a number over the years. I love the freedom of the OPEN road. Not alot of that around these days! I've had my spills too. Lost alot of flesh in a few of them,but i've been very lucky,never had a broken bone or permenant injury. I'd never buy a bike for any of my three sons. I've lost friends too. I do have a small bike now, a Honda 400CM. I DON"T ride in the city,but enjoy the ocassional ride thru Georgia's rural mountain roads....Be smart,don't get the bike for your boy. Thats a bike lover's vote.

Fish,

I've seen plenty of deaths from bike accidents over the past years. Some from hotdogs in the saddle and others from someone else's mistakes. You know your boy better than us but please give it some more thought. Imho, a teenager is too yooung, especially on today's crowded roads.



Mac

Ditto on having him take the motorcycle training course. I took it.
You really learn how to handle your bike in the course, like you get real good at counter steering, slow speed, sharp corners, the whole bit.
Don

All this said is for the good, but I'll add that after 8 years working fire/rescue in rural Virginia, I-81 corridor...I seen more dead and or really messed up teens via car wreck than bike crash...

It's more, kids and speed don't mix, than anything else...

Get the truck....so yall can haul the dirt bikes to the woods.......

Well I guess I'll pile on here. I drove a bike for years and always felt that I was such a good defensive driver that I had nothing to worry about...in all honesty I rode like a little old lady, and I still went down twice.

I rode back in the eighties, early nineties...things have changed somewhat depending on where you live.

If you live in a place where for the most part people drive at a slow pace, well maybe then give the kid a chance...but I don't think I would let one of my kids have a bike where I live now...too much attack driving going on out there.

If you do stick it out, get him a single or twin, no four cylinder jobs, I haven't met a kid yet who wouldn't sucumb to the thrill. That exceleration can be addicting and most youngsters will want to feel it here and there. He is a kid after all, every kid I have ever known likes to give the gals a show once in a while.


Gee, after reading this post I don't know how you are going to do it and sleep at night...did I tell you my gun smith is in a wheel chair...funny but true..well OK, not funny either.

harsh, boys.
but i asked for it.
thanks.
will update as reflection continues.

Dang, Guess i shouldn't have just ordered this..



It's cool though, I've got a room with my name on it at the local hospital....

As to your question, IF you do buy him a bike i'd suggest the Honda nighthawk... New they run 2500.00 are easy to learn on and have Minimal power... Enough to hurt you (trust me on that) but more than enough for a new rider.

I've mostly ridden dirt bikes but decided i wanted a street bike. So i ordered the one above and have a friend letting me learn the street thing on his 250. I've laid the dang thing down 1 already (in my driveway)....

YMMV.........

I'll chime in with the "just say no" crowd.

30 years ago I was a pallbearer for a good pard. Who knows maybe it was just his time to go as he had a passenger on the back that ended up with a sprained wrist.


And Steve had certainly lived his whole life like he was on borrowed time.

We struck out on our own with a couple of other high school buds by moving to Chicago, drank, chased girls, got high, went to great concerts, did some barroom brawling and just generally wasted time when we weren't working like young men are wont to do of teen years. I was 17 he was 19.

Couple of years later he moves back to our small hometown, to be closer to his folks as his mom had some health probs.

While I was home visiting I took him to Springfield so he could buy a bike, helped talk him into the 750 even though it was over budget for him versus the 500 that was more affordable.


He was happy, thought I was too.


When I got the call about the wreck and that he was in bad shape, I figured the tough little bastid would pull through.

Didn't happen that way.

Still carry some guilt about my role in the gig. Still known to shed a tear when I make the rounds at the cemetery back home when I come upon his grave.

He'd a bought it I know whether I approved or not, but if I knew then what I know now. I'd a had the satisfaction of having my ass whupped or I'd a whupped his before he bought it. Serious as a heart attack here.

I'd a liked to waste some more time and beers with him.

Your 21 and weigh a hundred fish, I won't pretend it's any of my biz telling you what to do or not do concerning your own flesh.

But I will tell you this, I hope and pray, you never have to make a post like this. I still miss him. Good luck on your decision.

fish, sorry man, I had this typed out, computer went blank and when I figured out the prob with computer post was still here, finished it and hit send.

You've heard enough and didn't need my post, should a checked the thread before hitting "send". Wasn't meaning to pile on sir, hope you can forgive me. 1ak

For 10 years and 200,000+ miles of my life, my motorcycle was my only transportation. I love motorcycles.

I was already 26 and back from the Peace Corps before I ever threw a leg over one, and I still coulda killed/maimed myself any number of times. It weren't ALL luck, but luck surely is a big factor in why in all those miles I only went down hard once, and walked away without a scratch.

I would never buy my one for own son in a million years. If he wants one bad enough, he can scrimp and save for it. That way if it should kill him (God forbid) I might still be able to live with myself.

The ONLY bike I might buy for him would be a dirt bike, guys who learn to ride in the dirt wreck on the street far less often than guys who start out on the street, ain't my opinion, actual stats. Mostly I expect on account of they take so many spills in the dirt.

Take $2,000 and invest it wisely for him, in something he can't touch for 25 years. I figure in his early forties that'll make him a whole boatload of cash just about the time the kids are old enough to travel, or hunt in the boonies, or go up the Amazon whatever.

Take the othe $500 and buy him a good mountain bike, then take him to a good mountain bike trail. If he doesn't like it, keep the bike for yerself <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

OTOH, if he bought his own motorcycle, I would prob'ly end up crossing the country on my own bike with him, showing him hows its done. Go figure <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />


Just my $0.02

Birdwatcher

Gotta GSXR in the garage. 186MPH on radar and the cop didn't write the ticket.Honest.

That's haulin azz.... Not into the speed thing. To much...Grin

One...DON'T get a cruiser. Get a STANDARD. The Nighthawk has been suggested, also the 500 Suzuki and Kawasaki twins. Cruisers, quite frankly, have a compromised riding position which means more work fighting the wind, and slower response times when you need to MISS that Kenworth that just turned left.
Two...TAKE THE MOTORCYCLE SAFETY FOUNDATION RIDER PROGRAM. Period. End of Story. Unless the experienced friend knows about the friction circle, countersteering and a whole boatload of other stuff, forget it. MSF. Period.
Third...bettter look at the insurance costs before buying anything.
Fourth, a street bike is like a gun...actually, it's like trying to balance on the biggest, sharpest knife in the world. You can slice and dice, but mung up and it'll cutcha.
All that said, this is a question of, is your kid mature enough to handle it? If he drinks and drives, ever...he isn't. If he's got speeding tickets with his car, or a wreck, he isn't. Motorcycles demand the rider's full attention to the point of paranoia.
But a bike in the right conditions is the best....you can see everything, smell all the good smells, and get 50 MPG while blowing everyone else off the road. AND they are easy to park.
I've been riding the same KZ 750 E for 25 years, I got it when it was a baby, raced it at Sears, put the lights back on when it got slow, and it still is a pleasure on a windy, gnarly road. I have some minor scars, and I've had some bad get-offs, but I have always wore heavy gear and ALWAYS, ALWAYS the best helmet available.
This is a serious thing. Think hard...choose wisely.

I was hit at age 15 by an illegal mexican who went back the next day. Almost lost my leg and two years off and on in the hospital. I have road off and on since then and I am now 58.
I recently picked up a goldwing and am riding again sometimes in heavy traffic. I went through the motorcycle safety course and consider it absolutely necessary. Then you have to get to the kid, maturity, where and when he will be riding, etc. Yes, they are dangerous, so are many things. A car is not perfectly safe, but alot is in reconizing limitations and self control. I asked the question of my grandson tonight who just got a crotch rocket, he is 24. He said is the parents nuts? He got his first bike at age 18, and within a week was hit by another driver, but no serious damage. He drives a car like an old lady, and a bike the same way. He is capable of handling it and reconizes the risk. His comment was it depends on the kid. Every person is different, some can handle it, some can't. A bike is exposed certainly, but it is quicker, more manuverable, and can stop faster than a car. You have to use these to your atvantage. A lot of it is learning to avoid situations where you can get hit. I ride either slower or faster than traffic, refuse to have a car next to me and have gotten so paranoid that my driving in a car is a lot more defensive. I also won't drive the bike at certain times on certain roads because of traffic.
I notice that doing the speed limit most times everybody passes me leaving me to ride alone. If I were to do it, there is no way I would let him ride alone for a while. You have to judge ability and maturity. Having said that life is a risk. Has the kid never handled a gun, rode a bicycle, rode a skateboard, gone swimming in the ocean, etc.? Walked accross the road? It is all about reconizing danger and learning how to avoid it. Come to think of it, I was first riding a motorcycle at around age 11. it is an absolute certainty that if you have a bike eventually you will drop it. Again, comes back to the driver, and protective clothing, and where and what speed you drop it. I have dropped a number of times a dirt bike, and once a street bike at over 70 due to a blowout, and survived all of them without a scratch. Experience is a great teacher.
If you get a used bike, have it gone through by someone that knows what they are doing, and be extra careful on tires, like buy new ones. I just spend about 250dollars putting tires on the 84 goldwing.

I remember from high school days the old Hondas had those beepers to remind you your turn signals were on.

I always thought they beeped to get you accustomed to the ICU... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

badger

Tough choice to make eh fish?

I rode a Kawasaki for about 3/4 years when I graduated HS.I loved the bike but as they have all said you'll dump it eventually ( I hadn't but I know I would have probably).The Rider courses they have are a must if you decide to go the route of getting him one.

This time of year in Upstate NY we have a bike rally called AMERICADE. http://www.tourexpo.com/data/

There are always a few casualties. Why? The majority of the accidents are caused by people in things that have 4 wheels.

Another 2 cents worth from someone who has been there. 40 years ago just out of high school I broadsided a vehicle making an oncoming left turn across my lane. Major head damage (egg-shell fracture) broken leg and arm. I had been riding for 2 years and thought I knew everything. I learned that day that I have no control over what other people do. Anyhow, after a rather long recovery, my parents and I decided that its just not worth the risk.

By the way, I was not wearing a helmet. The neurosurgeon who operated on me later told my parents that had I been wearing a helmet that my neck would most surely have snapped from the impact.

Do yourself and your kid a favor and pass on 2 wheeled transportation.

as another former bike owner... ditto.... I didn't get a street bike until my mid 20's... I'd had dirt bikes for years. I was a very conservative and defensive rider... (anyone can say they'll ride that way, but it takes a fair amount of skill and vigilence). One day I stopped at a green light to let a fire truck (with siren blaring) through the red light... guy behind me was too engrossed in his cell phone conversation and rear ended me. Could've been worse... knocked the bike about 15 feet into the intersection, but I walked away. But, it's no fun picking yourself off the pavement from under the front bumper of a car!

In the 3 or 4 years I rode, I had another about 1/2 dozen close calls in addition to this one. All related to cars not driving carefully.... If you think other drivers are bad when you drive a car, it's much worse on a bike! Sometimes people look right through you and then lane change into you or pull in front of you. If wasn't for other traffic, riding a bike would be great.

Anyway now that I'm older with small kids, I won't take those risks (for their sake) ....

I'm amazed seeing so many young riders these days that are oblivious to the dangers... pulling wheelies in busy streets, or weaving through rush hour like they're on a road course. Superman complex meets Darwin. Just a matter of time.

Last thought, maybe you should print out this thread and show it to your wife... maybe will change her enthusiasm.

As the guys above have pointed out, bikers are at a huge disadvantage in traffic. Other drivers don't respect two wheelers, give them little room, and are a bikers worst nightmare.
Don

guys, here's the deal:
reyn and i both will take the motorcycle safety foundation course either this weekend (if they will make room) or in three weeks.
if he passes with flying colors, then we will seriously consider getting an appropriate motorcycle (appropriate is key word here; NOT a middleweight cruiser). but we both will also take the intermediate course a little later on.
he is 18, extremely mature, careful, non-drinker, non-partier (you dads who have caught your sons drinking and assume they ALL do it: not him; i'd know; he is a rock of our faith). he had one stupid minor rear-ender bender when he was 16; he has gotten one speeding ticket for 62 in a 50 on a straight country road. i suspect the deputy wrote the ticket only because my cherokee is so stinkin' loud (free-flow cat, straight pipe) - and he's a teenager. well, good for him. he SHOULD have gotten a ticket - and he is paying it.
that is where it stands. will update.
and thanks again for ALL your advice.

It ain't the kid,or the machine,it's ALL the other azzholes on the road.

I know I could never forgive myself,so would never put myself in a position for that much remorse.....................

I know you will come to your own conclusions in good time. Training and Experience are the keys to mitigating the risks as much as possible. If you move forward with this plan the MSF course is the best decision you can make in the short term. GOOD LUCK!!

Let me know if I can help.

As has been said over and over, it's all the mindless zombies in their cars that cause you problems.

At 16, I had a Suzuki 750 in the early seventies, what some nicknamed the water buffalo because of the radiator. Went down several times. Once a patch of gravel, another time a big oil spill and twice more because of cars that just pulled in front of me and I had nowhere to go.

Haven't had a bike in 20 years but absolutely love them. But I'll repeat what everyone else has said, you will go down.

I just love motorcycles. Started riding when I was 8 yrs. old. Raced MX , hare & hound ,rode some trials and generally tore up the streets. You are doing the right thing by taking the courses metioned above as it will show him what he doesn't know. The Big Stick has hit it on the head though as there are all those other idiots out there. It's getting the experience to handle a bike and not hurt yourself that's tough but what is tougher is how defensive you've got to ride in todays traffic. It's a fun sport but MUST be taken seriously at all times...

Taking the MSF course is a must. Good for you. Go to Amazon and order David Hough's books Proficient Motorcycling and More Proficient Motorcycling. Another piece of advice is to follow the credo of ATGATT which is all the gear, all the time. That's boots, gloves, jacket, pants, and full face helmet. You might also look on www.motorcycles.about.com. They have a beginer specific forum with some good information. Another good internet site is www.advriders.com. I'm not going to try and sway you one way or the other. That decision is yours. If you decide to get him into riding though help him to to get the best training and gear possible.

Jeff

With all and total respect for all who posted above, you will go down ONLY under one of two reasons:

1. You had a mechanical failure (trans locks up, tire blows etc. Not much you can do with that one except keep your equipment up on maintenance and ride only with excellent tires.)
2. You aren't paying attention.

How do you think some truck drivers get to the 'million mile' mark (accident free)?

To the guy who got rear-ended on his bike: Why weren't you watching traffic behind you? You failed to give yourself an escape route and you weren't paying attention. You can argue, but it's fact. That #2 reason will get the vast majority of riders into accidents.

I had two minor car accidents before I got my first motorcycle. Since 1968 when I got my first bike, I"ve not had a single accident with the exception of the damn deer that got my truck last November, and I fully state it was my fault; I wasn't paying attention. I had my eyes off the road for 2 seconds checking the RH outside mirror and the doe timed it perfectly coming in from my left.

When you ride, you pay attention EVERY SINGLE SECOND.

Sorry but evidently you Do Not Ride Much or are just lucky otherwise you would not be making such asinine remarks. What you wrote about equipment and paying attention are all true but there is a lot more to it than that. Remarks by people like you may be albeit well meaning but in reality can get people killed who take heed in your advice! I would rather be LUCKY than good though--fortunatly when it comes to bikes I am both because I am still alive. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

had lunch and 'cycle viewing with my son at lunch today. just looking at possibilities. but to give a look into what kind of guy he is at 18, here is a link to pic of his dream bike.
i'm telling you, he is a middle-aged man in an 18-year-old body: http://www.starmotorcycles.com/star/products/modelspecs/63/0/specs.aspx

After almost getting killed on one just West of Jacksonville, Florida in 1960. I know enough to stay off of them.

Besides my dad told me that if my brother or I ever got one he'd come back from the grave to get us, I think tried to do that in the Jacksonville, FL incident.

I respect his wishes as he had a motorcycle sometime before I was thought of and according to stories I heard he lost the brakes on his and he road it through the Olympia,WA train station one afternoon trying to get it stopped.

Well, ya know my feelings on buying one for a kid.

That aside, w/out intending to preach on way or the other, allow me to address the fallacy that "motorcycles save you money".

Between insurance, tires, chains, more frequent services, riding leathers, helmet, saddlebags, gloves, winter gloves, rain gear, boots, cable lock etc etc you'll be lucky to break even with the cost of operating a small car or truck (and the mileage will be about the same). With the added inconvenience of not having a true all-weather vehicle (ya I know, I've ridden mine through violent storms, and on snow and ice too), and also the inconvenience of not being able to lock stuff up inside the vehicle.

One can ride a cycle if they want, but they shouldn't delude themselves that they'll be saving money. Plus budget in extra time in the morning to get everything packed and bungeed on, and for climbing in and out of your riding gear.

Birdwatcher

i'm think you're right, bw, on the cost for a new or newish bike. a used one that gets 70 mpg and is paid for could amortize the expenses and pay for itself over the course of a year, maybe save a little money.
i guess what you're saying is, it is sorta like handloading ... except there is no traffic.

and then there is this one:
<http://www.rvi.net/~mdhorban/hybridmotorcycle.htm>

I'd get the lad an '07 Ninja ZX-14.

It has 200 HP and will do a quarter mile in the mid 8's @ 150+mph with a few simple tweaks. Has a limiter on it that only lets you run 186 mph but that is easily disabled if you just have to break 200 mph.....

BTW, Does your son have any aversions to skin grafting? Do you have good health insurance on the young Lad??? How about a nice burial plot? Have you seen B'ham drivers???????? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

The Nighthawk has been suggested,



But keep in mind that allthough a Nighthawk is melo by today's standards you are still talking 120 mph, and more acceleration than 90% of the cars on the road today...nice dependable bike, but it too has the ability to give a kid with a little testosterone a bit of a thrill. My last bike was a Nighthawk S 700, and it had plenty of giddy up, enough to thrill me, as soon as she hit 7000 rpms, she just took off.

Where I agree a safety course is a good idea, only you know whether your boy might give in to temptation.

Paul,

You keepin them training wheels on that bike. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />





Mac

That was me that posted about being rear ended.... perhaps I could've done something different/better. FYI, it wasn't a panic stop or anything, I did see what was about to happen, was primarily trying to avoid the large fire truck going throught the red (which I succeeded at <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> )

Where you're wrong is thinking that if you're vigilent and defensive that you'll be able to avoid all trouble. That's "superman" type thinking. Sure, you'll increase your odds (by a lot), but you can't compensate for all the stupidity that can happen on the roads. That's why you wear the gear right?

Another example, a middle aged couple from the neighbourhood was riding double on a bike, going to a movie downtown one evening 2 summers ago. Were just cruisin' along, going straight through a stale green light, and got T-boned by a teenager in a car that just plain drove through the dead red light. No DUI, no overly excessive speed. With the buildings around, you just can't see anything around the corner until you're entering the intersection. I doubt there was much they could've done different. BTW, they were both wearing helmets and were 2 DOA's (and 2 orphaned kids).

Like I said before, I like bikes and miss mine... if it wasn't for the traffic, they'd be great.

Yep...Grin

I stopped going to funerals of biker friends as there are not too many of them left. I started riiding when I was 8 am now 53, mostly I ride dirt bikes, got into a bad habit many years ago, I know only two speeds stop and as fast as it will go. spent a lot of years hustling a flat track machine around, was never really good. But it was lots of fun. Today I ride a sport quad, wish they had these things when I was 18. I personally think any newbe on a bike needs to start small, learn how they work and learn respect for the environment a rider has to survive in. Traffic, old blind people,etc. learn to ride with out a lot of power then the power becomes easy. I have had way too many friends hop on a crotch rocket and wind up dead or worse in short order simply because they did not respect the power and the speed a motor cycle has. Kids will be kids ,get him in a riding course. The Virago is a nice ride I had one but like I said I am a dirt biker so road bikes don't stay around here too long. Good luck.

Bullwnkl.

70mpg???? I got 35 to 50 on my bikes dependent upon model. Tweaked for fuel economy they ain't.

If you can get 10,000 miles out of a rear tire you're doing good. Figure $200 including labor to replace it. Ditto for the chain if it has one. Service intervals, dependent upon model, run around 6,000 miles, again figure $200 per. Brake pads you can probably switch out yourself.

The risk of a used bike is that you don't know how the previous owners treated it, unless they have records and you believe 'em.

Motorcycles have gotten remarkably reliable overall, yet many models persist in having a remarkably unreliable component or two ('stators, electric circuitry, valves, timing chains etc etc dependent upon model...), check carefuly on the internet for this before deciding upon a model. They can get away with this on account of hardly anybody puts serious miles on 'em (I did, on all of 'em).

The cost of replacement components if needed for repair/replacement will likely induce cardiac arrest, especially if said components are OEM, which they likely will be, especially if your bike is a non-current model (case in point, a replacement little front brake disk for my KLR ~$400).

'Nother thing to bear in mind, replacement parts can be literally impossible to get for discontinued models. For a long time Japanese manufacturers would keep components in stock for up to seven years, after that you were on your own. (might be a pain if you got a great deal on that low-mileage'98 cruiser). This does not apply to bikes with cult/collector value like Harleys, Beemers, Ducatis and KZ1000's, and Honda was always better than most at keeping old parts in stock. Still, like the reliability issues with certain components, check on this carefully before buying an older bike.

Even today, if you can get 70,000 miles out of most motorcycle motors you're doing good, motorcycle motors generally putting out more power per cc than car motors, and correspondingly stressed. Some motors are famously reliable (like recent Harley motors), most ain't, at least not relative to automobiles.

I expect 200,000 miles out of a properly maintained car engine. Most motorcycle engines with 50,000 miles on them are getting pretty long in the tooth. When used as a sole source of transportation for day in day out riding, you can easily put 20,000 miles per year on a bike.

Some models require high octane gasoline despite what the manual says, that cost should be factored in too. My big 650 thumper runs best with octane booster (a $6.00 extra fuel cost every 20 gallons= an additional $0.30 per gallon)).

Plus going in:
Good helmet: $250
Good leather jacket: $500
Summer gloves: $40-$60
Winter gloves: $40-$60
Chaps (more useful than you'd think): $200
Saddlebags/luggage: $200-$500
Good rain gear: $200

Birdwatcher

I've been in vehicle accidents,where I was struck outta the blue,less ANY mistakes on my part. Was T-boned nicely at a 4-way stop,hit head on once and had a shmuck rear-end me once.

That don't count the "[bleep] happens" fender-benders and slow-motion mishaps in poor weather.

Am thinking that any of 'em woulda/mighta/coulda killed me,had I been on a bike.

I'm all for having fun,grabbing the bull by the horns and living Life fully...but I ain't never had the inkling to wish so much doom on my kids,as to buy a street bike for them.

Glad here,that my Dad loved me,a like amount......................

With all due respect, he is not nearly. He's lacking the ONE responsibility that changes my outlook on just about everything - wife and kids who depend on you to put a roof over their head and food on the table. Now he's making a decision for ONE person only and doesn't have to worry about the strain he'd put on the wife and kids should he have an accident and be unlucky enough not to die, just paralyzed from the neck down.

However, like Stick said, it aint about how responsible your son is anyway. Its the other idiots on the road, none of which you have control over. I want my life in my hands.

you guys are making it tough, as it should be. as for reyn's "dream bike," it's the style he considers cool that makes him seem kinda old. good grief, do i ever know he's an actual 18-year-old ...

I'd buy him a Sherman Tank, that should help minimize risk...

I can see why Stick isn't condoning the bike idea. After seeing pictures of he and his pards being rearended by deer I wouldn't wanna ride again either!

Paul----mine is for sale--going to build another one but this is what you need to ride with your son! I will guarantee that everyone will hear you coming on the �Flying Brick�! It has a bad habit of burning holes in the jeans right above the right ankle from the header but your boot will protect you. Just send the certified funds and come and get it.

The New Fish Bike <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

all i got was the home page for cycle trader ...

Oppps Try it again <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />!! Just what you need as a first bike and 6mpg well 8mpg if you ride it easy!! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

urk.