What can you do if he won't return your rifles. I have been told for weeks they are done and boxed but he does not have money to ship. ( shipping cost were in the price) so I offered to cover cost just to be done, now he will not return messages. Is there anything I can do, or do I just have to wait?

I'm going to give you a good bit of advice that nobody wants to hear.

DON'T BOTHER GUNSMITHS, CUSTOM KNIFE MAKERS, OR TAXIDERMISTS.

You'll find yourself on a schit list that does you no good.




Dave

The longer you wait the less likely you are to get them back. I would be worried that he no longer had them for whatever reason.

You could drop in for a visit.

Wow, this could be a bummer... A good friend had a noted smith "build" a custom .300 H & H.. He had it all, English style open sights, fine wood, everything plus a good deposit... Dropped it off to the guy, time dragged.. Each visit would be it is almost ready... Finally three years later, he swings by the shop, gun is about ready he is told.. The smith was called to the phone and my pal was just looking around, and finds his stuff gathering dust in a corner.. Nothing had been touched in the three years.. He gathered it up demanded his deposit .. He got the $ by threatening to take out an ad in the Rifleman ....

Personally I'd panic. I'd be on my way to him as fast as I could get there.

+1

Time to bite the bullet and deal with this on a eyeball to eyeball level.

Out of state and I am working overtime, don't have time for a road trip.

I'd drop in for a visit if I were within driving distance, if not I'd notify local authorities that this man stole some firearms from me

No sentimental value then; you'll just be out financially.

PM Sitka Deer, he's had a similar experience.

I hate to hear that. In my experience, most gunsmiths are really lousy businessmen. Darcy Echols and Mark Penrod are two exceptions that come to mind, if they tell you something you can bank it but most aren't like Darcy and Mark.

Where at and who?

This is a bad situation. Perhaps a call to the local DA or police (in his town) asking them to investigate a possible firearms theft; but this assumes that you have all documentation and he doesn't have an out.

That is a piss poor business man for sure. Absolutely no excuse to hold onto a customer's product because you can't manage your books. I'm glad I have a world class gunsmith 1/2 hour down the highway.

I don't know the value of the rifles, but I'd be paying a buddy or Fire member to go after them...the longer the gunsmith holds them, the sooner he sells them for cash.

PS: And I'd bad mouth his thieving ass from one end of the internet to the other, starting threads on every gun/outdoor site there is.

Wouldn't that be a felony?

If anyone could get away with it, a gunsmith could...especially long guns,,,,,,,,,,,,POOF gone.

I had a similar situation several years ago, I contacted the State Attorney General who brought a class action lawsuit against the gunsmith. I received a refund of the money I had spent, long after that a package with the gun arrived, the box had never been opened and no work had been done. The guy had strung me along with the stories of the work nearly being done and how well the project was turning out. All lies as he had never opened the package I had sent him.

You're probably fugcked. Time to get the law involved, assuming you have documentation to prove the rifle is yours. Barring that, post his info here and send him a link to the thread and promise to post about your situation on Facebook and anywhere else.



Also, this is good advice:



But since you've been told the rifle is done, that's how you know you got fugcked.

Case in point:

This is a tough situation. Make darn sure you have all the facts on paper on when the job was promised and you have details of what you sent and when. Be extra careful before making accusations of theft. If you know an attorney, I would get some counsel to make sure you're on solid ground when you move.

+1 on Taxidermist

The only time I've ever had a similar situation I made a road trip. When I arrived, my rifle was done. I picked it up. Never knew why the grandparents nsmith would not ship. He never asked why I decided to pick it up. It was a 6-hour drive each way. I suspect the gunsmith had a drinking problem.

I think you should have a member stop by to see what is happening.

With all the members here, someone could know him or live right up the street....out the bastage's name.

Where's this fella at?

I would PM Bricktop and tell him that Larry Root has a revealing picture of Bricktop and wants to sell it. Then tell him that Larry is at the address that your gunsmith resides. You may never see your guns, but you would hear about it in the 10:00 news.

My gunsmith is a super good fellow and a great friend as well. That said, he has on two occasions kept my guns for a very long time. I never figured it out and actually gave up on the last gun. He recently returned it to me, fixed perfectly, after having it for several years.

Sage advice right there!

I did have a smith reline a Model 94 Marlin in 38-40 in Washington State a few years ago. It took about a year. When I next asked him to do a new w job,he wasn't taking any more work as he was about 3 years behind. It was a good job on the 94.His name was John Taylor.

RUBBISH.

A long list of honest paying customers have(out of frustration) bothered total a**hole frauds like Stuart Saterlee, WFHein, and Empire Rifles
and the only persons to make a [bleep] list was those businesses, not the rightfully disgruntled customers.

Subsequently other trustworthy smiths gladly took up the good business offered to them from those customers.

Anyone who allows themselves to be intimidated into silence by the dodgy element of an industry
of mostly glorified garage hobbyists is lame and pathetic.

But there will always be those types that dont dare question their gunsmith, PH, LEOs, gunwriters or local pastor.
instead they seem to prefer to live a life of fear.

I talk or text my smith at least twice a week he's a great guy. I have five rifle builds going with him right now. He is always more than happy to visit. 😉.

I'd make a visit.

Agree on a time frame up front. Don't let him be a weasel. It ain't "poor businessmen" that pull this schit. It's liars and thieves.

Horsefly - Don't take advice from people on the internet - me included.
the fact that the guy is a gunsmith has no relevance - what if was your car, or your dog, or a watch??

Federal LAW dictates disposition of firearms delivered to a gunsmith - he operates under the same license as a dealer so him selling off your guns etc is rubbish.

POLL: Has ANYONE on this site delivered a gun to a gunsmith and had him sell it without your consent??? Raise your hand and speak up please....


I had a similar incident: Guy in Arizona - I'm in Georgia - old S&W revolvers, he "made" the parts, etc, Sent him TWO Customer's guns. Never had good or great communication but he was highly recommended. Finally I called the local police and asked them to do a "wellness check" on the individual and asked them to pass the message to please have him call me. It worked, and I do not mean to imply the police are my personal messenger boys, BUT something terrible could have happened to him.

You trusted him enough to send your gun(s) to him, trust him that he's not willing to risk federal time and charges on firearms.

I once gave a .22 rifle and a Lyman target receiver sight to a local gunsmith to install. After a time, when I called to find the status, he told me that I never gave him the sight. I argued with him over the phone and he was insistent. When I drove over to his shop, there was the sight in his show case with a price sticker on it. When I pointed at the sight and said, there's my sight, he got very sheepish and tried to laugh it off as a senior moment. A week later I had the rifle with sight installed and he did a fine job, not that it was difficult. It was the last work I gave him.

I guess I've been lucky. . . . here in Central Penna., we have a local smith who is busy but fairly prompt, does good work and is as honest as the day is long. Also, another smith who builds my benchrest rifles takes a long time to get things done but you know that going in.

Good Lord!

Reading all these posts sure makes me wonder about all those guys who claim they're 'gunsmiths'... WTH is wrong with someone who just can't be up front and honest re: completion time and or simple communication???

The day my name's mentioned above with similar issues is the day I hang it up for good....

I already figured you for an annoying kghunt.

You probably call every five minutes. "Is it ready? Is it ready?"




Dave

While I agree pestering a busy man delays the work getting finished, if he tells you it's finished but "doesn't have the money to ship"...that would scare the chiit out of me. Then he quits responding after you offer to pay the shipping charges on your dime ?, that's a red flag if you're hoping to see the guns again.

Name of the Smith or it didn't happen.. You guys want to know how to deal with this? All it takes is time, patience and money and in the end, not only did I get all of my deposit back, but enough to cover attorney fees plus a little more...

HOW TO NAIL A CROOK

OK, here it is from an 80 year old retired gunsmith. Number one, if he is good, he is going to be very busy so have a little patience but get an estimate of a completion date with a little slack. Number two, just like people in any profession you have good and bad. Talk to folks who have used his or hers (yes there are some pretty good gals) services to get an idea of their reputation. A good way to do this if you are not a local is go to the local gun range and see if you can get an honest opinion on the type of person you will be dealing with. And last but not least, be aware of an extremely low price for the work you want to have done. A good honest gunsmith knows what his time and efforts are worth so they charge accordingly but a bad one needs anything they can get. Unfortuantly, I can tell you horror stories that I ran into with customer over the years. In this case with this smith, I would be very apprehensive at this point.

I have dealt with 5 gunsmiths in my life 3 absolutely sucked on workmanship and communication. 1 was marginal at best and 1 was decent. Dealing with the 1 that was decent was a big breath of fresh air for me.

OP, sorry to hear you are going through this and I hope it works out for you.

To others reading this: I have used Clay Spencer of Scottsville, VA twice in the recent past for re-barrel jobs with great satisfaction and very fast turnaround.

Most of my work has been done by engineers or tradesmen of some ability and technical skill...I have also run into a couple that seemed to believe they were 'artistes', that loved to believe they were 'special'.

I prefer the fellows that can actually do as I ask with no fuss, and I prefer someone else deal with the ones that believe their own bullshit.

I think some of you are missing the point here, or else you just love to call posters names, which is probably the case in one instance anyway. The OP has been told that the work has been completed and the guns are boxed up and ready to ship, but the gunsmith doesn't have the money to ship them back. The gunsmith can't come up with $50, or maybe $75.......BS. he isn't worrying anybody, he just wants his guns returned to him. If the gunsmith is legit, then he had to log the guns into his FFL firearms acquisition and disposition record book, that EVERY one that holds an FFL must do. If he acquires a firearm to work on, and it's not disposed of properly, that's an ATF violation.

Yes I am in complete agreement.

However; in my experience people that pester the fugk out of gunsmiths, knife makers, and taxidermists usually end up with those type of responses. Not saying that is the case with the OP, but it is very common.

I forgot about Class III guys too. I'd say the more phone calls you make the less they give a fugk about you receiving your product.



Dave

Damn Jorge that was a long read

Glad you made out ok

Moral of the story: don't f with fighter pilots

That would be my 1st. 2nd, and 3rd choice.

He sent me a email today, said they will be too me early next week. I am not going to out him yet, and I do have patience. But what drives me nuts is not following through and excuses for every thing.

Makes me wonder if he's on the fire. Keep us apprised of this. I'd like to see it come to a successful resolution.

Joe.
After you received your guns, post pictures of them

He said I would have them early this week, have not heard anything yet

Wouldn't happen to be Diablo Custom Rifles would it? There are MANY folks on here including myself waiting on work.

This thread is like the Chinese army.

Many you say?

Still no guns showed up ?,,,another 2 weeks of lying.