Texas Border Patrol Agents Injured, One Dead

A U.S. Border Patrol agent died Sunday morning as a result of injuries sustained while on patrol in the Big Bend Sector, according to a U.S. Customs and Border Protection news release.

Two agents in the Van Horn Station area, near Interstate 10, were responding to an activity that was not explained in the release. The release did not state the time the incident occurred, or what caused the agent's injuries.

Agent Rogelio Martinez and his partner reported they both had been injured and needed assistance. Agents responded and both were transported to an area hospital, the release states. Agent Martinez later died of his injuries, his unidentified partner was still in serious condition at the unnamed hospital.

Culberson County Sheriff's Office deputies aided agents in securing the scene and members from the agency's special operations group joined air and marine operations in searching for suspects. The FBI is also investigating.

A Culberson sheriff's office spokesman said deputies were still investigating and could not comment. Attempts to reach agency personnel for comment have been unsuccessful.

This is a breaking news story that will be updated as information becomes available.

Vehicle wreck?

Dangerous out there

read that earlier today, they sure are being hush hush on details.

Chispa Road runs along the River from Candelaria to a paved Ranch Road near Lobos. Find Valentine Tx on google earth and move SW to the River and you can see the roughest terrain on the Border. The Agents don’t even try to Patrol it’s length because it is so prone to washouts as to be impassable in many spots.

They rely on sensors and respond to alerts from them. This is the most troublesome area for the Van Horn guys and likely to be where they got in trouble.

No real updates yet, but FWIW, the President, Acting Chief of DHS and Senator Cruz have weighed in with condolences and promises of action...

More unnecessary waste of good lives. I hope this is the impetus needed to SECURE OUR FUQING BORDER. No more trading useless illegals for good men.

Originally Posted by Birdwatcher

Vehicle wreck?

With SWAT and FBI getting involved? I guess it could be, but sounds more nefarious.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/11/1...er-injured-while-on-patrol-in-texas.html

Fox says "attack."

Originally Posted by 700LH

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/11/1...er-injured-while-on-patrol-in-texas.html

Fox says "attack."

More guns from Operation Fast and Furious?

bump

Border agent killed, partner injured by illegal immigrants using rocks, report says

Rocks? How did they get close enough to armed LEO to kill him with rocks?

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/11/2...-immigrants-using-rocks-report-says.html

Well some rocks can be vertical, big and fast if set as a trap and released.....

but then again lets give it some time.

Fox says it happened on the Interstate Hwy 10

Quote

He was on Interstate 10 near Mile Marker 151 when the incident occurred.

East of Van Horn. Not far from John Conoly Road.

Latest suggestions are they fell 14 ft into a drainage culvert and that the scene was pretty gory. Still awaiting details.

The falling culvert theory is not breaking news. It was considered a possibility from the word go. Responding agents damn near took a header as they approached.

The people claiming rocks were used don't have anything to do with the investigation.

Dave

I'm guessing somebody spit the word "rock" at some news hack that wouldn't back off and they bit, and that lit the bamboo telegraph.

Originally Posted by deflave

The falling culvert theory is not breaking news. It was considered a possibility from the word go. Responding agents damn near took a header as they approached.

The people claiming rocks were used don't have anything to do with the investigation.

Dave

Maybe, maybe not. Sources close to there say it was an attack. Ambush was the word they used. Maybe they pushed the agents into a concrete drainage ditch, or any number of scenarios. Until an official press release comes out, even my buds with the BP 30 miles from there don't know all the details.

Originally Posted by local_dirt

I'm guessing somebody spit the word "rock" at some news hack that wouldn't back off and they bit, and that lit the bamboo telegraph.

The guy that said it was attack with rocks is the Border Patrol Union spokesman. He may or may not have known anything. If he didn't, they need to get a new spokesman.

Just a guess, but I'll wager that even after they put out the OFFICIAL press release, we STILL won't know what really happened.

Originally Posted by rockinbbar

Originally Posted by local_dirt

I'm guessing somebody spit the word "rock" at some news hack that wouldn't back off and they bit, and that lit the bamboo telegraph.

The guy that said it was attack with rocks is the Border Patrol Union spokesman. He may or may not have known anything. If he didn't, they need to get a new spokesman.

The Border Patrol Union isn't part of the investigation. The Border Patrol Union does not represent the Border Patrol either. They represent the union.

Dave

They represent the union’s membership.

Allowing BP Agents use of deadly force against rock throwing will put a stop to the BS! Under Obama, BP Agents were charged & sentenced for using deadly force, which in turn made it hard for Agents to defend themselves!

What we need is some old time BP Agents like in the good ole days like Tom Threepersons!

Originally Posted by chlinstructor

Allowing BP Agents use of deadly force against rock throwing will put a stop to the BS! Under Obama, BP Agents were charged & sentenced for using deadly force, which in turn made it hard for Agents to defend themselves!

What we need is some old time BP Agents like in the good ole days like Tom Threepersons!

Agreed.

The BP has been hamstrung and penalized for any use of deadly force in the past.

Time to change the ROE. (Rules of engagement)

"blunt force trauma" this morning on Phoenix radio. what they means, and if they know for sure, I can't say.

Originally Posted by chlinstructor

Allowing BP Agents use of deadly force against rock throwing will put a stop to the BS! Under Obama, BP Agents were charged & sentenced for using deadly force, which in turn made it hard for Agents to defend themselves!

What we need is some old time BP Agents like in the good ole days like Tom Threepersons!

Raping the Border Patrol the way Hussein did was criminal, putting them in harm's way and not allowing them options when confronted with deadly force. Basturd should have been horsewhipped just for that.

Originally Posted by rockinbbar

Originally Posted by chlinstructor

Allowing BP Agents use of deadly force against rock throwing will put a stop to the BS! Under Obama, BP Agents were charged & sentenced for using deadly force, which in turn made it hard for Agents to defend themselves!

What we need is some old time BP Agents like in the good ole days like Tom Threepersons!

Agreed.

The BP has been hamstrung and penalized for any use of deadly force in the past.

Time to change the ROE. (Rules of engagement)

I'm pretty sure the United States Border Patrol operates under the same rule of law as the rest of the country.

Travis

During the Butcrak Homama regime, BP agents were criminally prosecuted for shooting IAs throwin rocks at them.

Originally Posted by Fubarski

During the Butcrak Homama regime, BP agents were criminally prosecuted for shooting IAs throwin rocks at them.

What cases were that?

Dave

"A US Border Patrol agent who shot and killed a Mexican teenager in a cross-border shooting incident has been charged with second-degree murder."

https://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Justi...-agent-charged-in-murder-of-Mexican-teen

This mexican with a history of drug smuggling showed up a week or 2 after having escaped into mexico from these 2 agents who were subsequently almost beaten to death by a prison population after Bushes State Atty promised they would not be put in a general prison if convicted. He claimed these two agents had shot him. Bush term as potus.

http://www.wnd.com/2006/10/38477/

https://www.texasmonthly.com/articles/badges-of-dishonor/

http://minutemanhq.com/hq/article.php?sid=187

Originally Posted by Fubarski

"A US Border Patrol agent who shot and killed a Mexican teenager in a cross-border shooting incident has been charged with second-degree murder."

https://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Justi...-agent-charged-in-murder-of-Mexican-teen

The Christian Science Monitor.

LMAO.

Clark

Originally Posted by jaguartx

This mexican with a history of drug smuggling showed up a week or 2 after having escaped into mexico from these 2 agents who were subsequently almost beaten to death by a prison population after Bushes State Atty promised they would not be put in a general prison if convicted. He claimed these two agents had shot him. Bush term as potus.

http://www.wnd.com/2006/10/38477/

https://www.texasmonthly.com/articles/badges-of-dishonor/

http://minutemanhq.com/hq/article.php?sid=187

Tough gig ain't it?

Dave

Originally Posted by deflave

Originally Posted by jaguartx

This mexican with a history of drug smuggling showed up a week or 2 after having escaped into mexico from these 2 agents who were subsequently almost beaten to death by a prison population after Bushes State Atty promised they would not be put in a general prison if convicted. He claimed these two agents had shot him. Bush term as potus.

http://www.wnd.com/2006/10/38477/

https://www.texasmonthly.com/articles/badges-of-dishonor/

http://minutemanhq.com/hq/article.php?sid=187

Tough gig ain't it?

Dave

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...icy-tightened-for-border-patrol/9802341/

PHOENIX -- Customs and Border Protection tightened restrictions on when and how agents and officers will be allowed to use deadly force —

The new use-of-force policies require Border Patrol agents and Customs officers to avoid placing themselves in situations in which they have to use deadly force.

For example, the new policy spells out that agents are not to step in front of or block the path of a moving vehicle. They also are not to fire at rock-throwers unless they have a "reasonable belief" that there's an imminent danger of serious physical injury or death; when possible, agents are to seek cover or move back "out of the immediate area of danger."

The new policies require agents to carry and be trained in the use of less-lethal weapons. Previously, such weapons were optional. The new policies also require additional training and mandate the agency to investigate all incidents of use of deadly force, not just those that result in death or serious injury.

The use of Tasers is also restricted. Agents can use them only on people who are actively resisting and cannot shock anyone more than three times.

Wow. What an epically stupid article.

I'd love to get my hands on an actual use of force policy from Customs and Border Protection and read it cover to cover so I could see all this. Although I'm pretty GD sure it doesn't have a single sentence dedicated to moving vehicles or rock throwing.

I'm also pretty GD sure that mandatory training in less lethal devices has been occurring in every LE agency or department since the fugkin' 80's. And I'm pretty fugkin' sure the last time I crossed through San Ysidro there wasn't anybody wearing a green uniform asking me stupid questions. They were wearing blue. Which would mean they weren't United States Border Patrol Agents as the article implies.

Dave

Originally Posted by deflave

Wow. What an epically stupid article.

I'd love to get my hands on an actual use of force policy from Customs and Border Protection and read it cover to cover so I could see all this. Although I'm pretty GD sure it doesn't have a single sentence dedicated to moving vehicles or rock throwing.

I'm also pretty GD sure that mandatory training in less lethal devices has been occurring in every LE agency or department since the fugkin' 80's. And I'm pretty fugkin' sure the last time I crossed through San Ysidro there wasn't anybody wearing a green uniform asking me stupid questions. They were wearing blue. Which would mean they weren't United States Border Patrol Agents as the article implies.

Dave

You sure are a long way from the Meskin border to know as much as you do.

FYI, the Border Patrol man their own check points and ask their own stupid questions. It's not limited to the boys in blue.

Since you're so close to the "Meskin" border maybe you can tell me the difference between a checkpoint and a Port of Entry.

I'd love to learn.

Clark

Port of Entry is a checkpoint also.

Let me give you a big hint before you go any deeper:

You don't know more than me about this subject.

Dave

Originally Posted by deflave

Let me give you a big hint before you go any deeper:

You don't know more than me about this subject.

Dave

Yeah, you're a smatt mutha fugga.

You are assuming how much I know as well. I'll leave it at that.

Originally Posted by deflave

Wow. What an epically stupid article.

I'd love to get my hands on an actual use of force policy from Customs and Border Protection and read it cover to cover so I could see all this. Although I'm pretty GD sure it doesn't have a single sentence dedicated to moving vehicles or rock throwing.

I'm also pretty GD sure that mandatory training in less lethal devices has been occurring in every LE agency or department since the fugkin' 80's. And I'm pretty fugkin' sure the last time I crossed through San Ysidro there wasn't anybody wearing a green uniform asking me stupid questions. They were wearing blue. Which would mean they weren't United States Border Patrol Agents as the article implies.

Dave

And you would be wrong!

Page (6) number (4).

Quote

4. Authorized Officers/Agents shall not discharge their firearms in response to
thrown or launched projectiles unless the officer/agent has a reasonable belief,
based on the totality of circumstances (to include the size and nature of the
projectiles), that the subject of such force poses an imminent danger of serious
physical injury or death to the officer/agent or to another person.

Officers/agents may be able to obtain a tactical advantage in these situations,
through measures such as seeking cover or distancing themselves from the
immediate area of danger.

https://www.cbp.gov/sites/default/files/documents/UseofForcePolicyHandbook.pdf

Originally Posted by steve4102

Originally Posted by deflave

Wow. What an epically stupid article.

I'd love to get my hands on an actual use of force policy from Customs and Border Protection and read it cover to cover so I could see all this. Although I'm pretty GD sure it doesn't have a single sentence dedicated to moving vehicles or rock throwing.

I'm also pretty GD sure that mandatory training in less lethal devices has been occurring in every LE agency or department since the fugkin' 80's. And I'm pretty fugkin' sure the last time I crossed through San Ysidro there wasn't anybody wearing a green uniform asking me stupid questions. They were wearing blue. Which would mean they weren't United States Border Patrol Agents as the article implies.

Dave

Page (6) number (4).

Quote

4. Authorized Officers/Agents shall not discharge their firearms in response to
thrown or launched projectiles unless the officer/agent has a reasonable belief,
based on the totality of circumstances (to include the size and nature of the
projectiles), that the subject of such force poses an imminent danger of serious
physical injury or death to the officer/agent or to another person.

Officers/agents may be able to obtain a tactical advantage in these situations,
through measures such as seeking cover or distancing themselves from the
immediate area of danger.

https://www.cbp.gov/sites/default/files/documents/UseofForcePolicyHandbook.pdf

Don't confuse Eisenstein with facts.

Originally Posted by rockinbbar

Originally Posted by steve4102

Originally Posted by deflave

Wow. What an epically stupid article.

I'd love to get my hands on an actual use of force policy from Customs and Border Protection and read it cover to cover so I could see all this. Although I'm pretty GD sure it doesn't have a single sentence dedicated to moving vehicles or rock throwing.

I'm also pretty GD sure that mandatory training in less lethal devices has been occurring in every LE agency or department since the fugkin' 80's. And I'm pretty fugkin' sure the last time I crossed through San Ysidro there wasn't anybody wearing a green uniform asking me stupid questions. They were wearing blue. Which would mean they weren't United States Border Patrol Agents as the article implies.

Dave

Page (6) number (4).

Quote

4. Authorized Officers/Agents shall not discharge their firearms in response to
thrown or launched projectiles unless the officer/agent has a reasonable belief,
based on the totality of circumstances (to include the size and nature of the
projectiles), that the subject of such force poses an imminent danger of serious
physical injury or death to the officer/agent or to another person.

Officers/agents may be able to obtain a tactical advantage in these situations,
through measures such as seeking cover or distancing themselves from the
immediate area of danger.

https://www.cbp.gov/sites/default/files/documents/UseofForcePolicyHandbook.pdf

Don't confuse Eisenstein with facts.

To late, he is already confused.

Originally Posted by steve4102

To late, he is already confused.

Which has been evident to everyone reading this entire thread but himself.

I must have missed the word rock in there somewhere.

Dave

Originally Posted by rockinbbar

Originally Posted by steve4102

To late, he is already confused.

Which has been evident to everyone reading this entire thread but himself.

I'm learning so much from you two.

Please continue.

Travis

You should sell shovels, you're pretty good at getting people to use them lol.

Originally Posted by deflave

Originally Posted by rockinbbar

Originally Posted by steve4102

To late, he is already confused.

Which has been evident to everyone reading this entire thread but himself.

I'm learning so much from you two.

Please continue.

Travis

I don't know why you'd start learning at this point.

I posted this pretty early on in the thread and all you do is be your usual condescending prick, know it all self.

Originally Posted by rockinbbar

The BP has been hamstrung and penalized for any use of deadly force in the past.

Time to change the ROE. (Rules of engagement)

FYI, After I finished with the DEA Task Force I was working with, I was actually hired by the Border Patrol. Aside from having friends with careers in USC&BP, I also have relatives in there. One of whom retire as a Commander.

But, please enlighten us further of your extensive knowledge of events and happenings a thousand miles from your podunk department.

Originally Posted by deflave

I must have missed the word rock in there somewhere.

Dave

LOL

Nice dodge, actually it was a piss poor dodge.

Quote

A projectile is any object that once projected or dropped continues in motion by its own inertia and is influenced only by the downward force of gravity.

As this thread is about the two agents that were attacked with "Rocks" and a rock thrown by definition is a projectile, ...well you do the math if you can.

"What we need is some old time BP Agents like in the good ole days like Tom Threepersons!"

Where is Charlie Askins now that we need him? Considering the now ROE, he'd probably just go shoot hell out of his superiors.
Paul B.

That's bad ass. In what capacity did you work for the United States Border Patrol?

What was your relative a Commander of? Sounds like he had a fun job.

I didn't know law enforcement personnel had ROE's. I thought they operated under the rule of law. I wonder what the ROE's in Washington state are in comparison to southern California.

This is all fascinating stuff.

Travis

Originally Posted by steve4102

As this thread is about the two agents that were attacked with "Rocks" and a rock thrown by definition is a projectile, ...well you do the math if you can.

I'm still not 100% convinced that rock throwing took place. But, today the FBI said they were treating the criminal investigation as an "assault"... so, it's not been eliminated yet.

The BP agent in the hospital I totally believe. He said he doesn't remember anything. That is the case when you are knocked unconscious.

Originally Posted by steve4102

Originally Posted by deflave

I must have missed the word rock in there somewhere.

Dave

LOL

Nice dodge, actually it was a piss poor dodge.

Quote

A projectile is any object that once projected or dropped continues in motion by its own inertia and is influenced only by the downward force of gravity.

As this thread is about the two agents that were attacked with "Rocks" and a rock thrown by definition is a projectile, ...well you do the math if you can.

The agents being attacked and assaulted by use of rocks is a theory.

The agents sustaining "serious physical injury or death" is fact.

Dave

Originally Posted by BillyGoatGruff

You should sell shovels, you're pretty good at getting people to use them lol.

RULES OF ENGAGEMENT!!!!

Clark

Holy balls this is funny

Originally Posted by deflave

That's bad ass. In what capacity did you work for the United States Border Patrol?

What was your relative a Commander of? Sounds like he had a fun job.

I didn't know law enforcement personnel had ROE's. I thought they operated under the rule of law. I wonder what the ROE's in Washington state are in comparison to southern California.

This is all fascinating stuff.

Travis

I didn't work for them. After placing my top 3 preferred work stations, they informed me that it wasn't going to happen, and I would be on the Canadian border for 1-2 years. I didn't take them up on it.

My relative was Chief Border Patrol Commander of half a dozen states.

Your local podunk department doesn't have ROE's? Like "You can't engage in high speed pursuits, unless...." Or "You can't taze a subject, unless..."

Go ahead and tell us a rock isn't a projectile, some more. Maybe someone will believe you if you say it often enough, or maybe whisper it...

I've been offered jobs I didn't take too. Chief Border Patrol Commander sounds like a pretty important person. Next time I see on of the local agents up here at the gas station I'll ask them about that title.

A Chief Border Patrol Commander of a half dozen states? That's one helluva title. Can I ask what states he was commandering?

And I'm sorry but I didn't realize that law enforcement entities have ROE's in relation to deadly force. Like I said, you two are teaching me so much.

That sucks they wouldn't put you where you wanted to work. I'd have turned it down also.

Dave

Is this the current Chief?

[Linked Image]

Originally Posted by BillyGoatGruff

I've been offered jobs I didn't take too. Chief Border Patrol Commander sounds like a pretty important person. Next time I see on of the local agents up here at the gas station I'll ask them about that title.

Ask this guy.

He might tell you.

http://www.grandforksherald.com/news/3811879-new-commander-takes-over-border-patrol-grand-forks

You're related to Aaron Heitke?

Dave

Originally Posted by Steelhead

Is this the current Chief?

[Linked Image]

Howyoudoinhowyoudoinhowyoudoin'.

Not me.

But he wishes I were.

Ok.

Dave

Originally Posted by deflave

Originally Posted by steve4102

Originally Posted by deflave

I must have missed the word rock in there somewhere.

Dave

LOL

Nice dodge, actually it was a piss poor dodge.

Quote

A projectile is any object that once projected or dropped continues in motion by its own inertia and is influenced only by the downward force of gravity.

As this thread is about the two agents that were attacked with "Rocks" and a rock thrown by definition is a projectile, ...well you do the math if you can.

The agents being attacked and assaulted by use of rocks is a theory.

The agents sustaining "serious physical injury or death" is fact.

Dave

True, but you said that there is Nothing in the manuals that says anything about throwing rocks (projectiles) and you were proven wrong.

I will read it again and look for the word rock.

Thanks.

Dave

Originally Posted by deflave

I will read it again and look for the word rock.

Thanks.

Dave

Remember this?

Quote

I'd love to get my hands on an actual use of force policy from Customs and Border Protection and read it cover to cover so I could see all this. Although I'm pretty GD sure it doesn't have a single sentence dedicated to moving vehicles or rock throwing.

Page 6, again.

F. Use of Safe Tactics

1. Authorized Officers/Agents should seek to employ enforcement tactics and
techniques that effectively bring an incident under control, while promoting the
safety of the officer/agent and the public, and minimizing the risk for unintended
injury and/or property damage.

2. Except where otherwise required by inspections or other operations, Authorized
Officers/Agents should avoid standing directly in front of or behind a subject
vehicle. Officers/agents should not place themselves in the path of a moving
vehicle or use their body to block a vehicle’s path.

3. Authorized Officers/Agents should, whenever reasonable, avoid placing
themselves in positions where they have no alternative to using deadly force.

4. Authorized Officers/Agents shall not discharge their firearms in response to
thrown or launched projectiles unless the officer/agent has a reasonable belief,
based on the totality of circumstances (to include the size and nature of the
projectiles), that the subject of such force poses an imminent danger of serious
physical injury or death to the officer/agent or to another person.

Officers/agents may be able to obtain a tactical advantage in these situations,
through measures such as seeking cover or distancing themselves from the
immediate area of danger.

https://www.cbp.gov/sites/default/files/documents/UseofForcePolicyHandbook.pdf

There it is again, right in your face in black-n-white. Are you getting tired of being wrong yet?

Originally Posted by deflave

I will read it again and look for the word rock.

Thanks.

Dave

Reading is for idiots.

I clicked the link to the Use of Force Policy Handbook (notice it's not "ROE" or "Rules of Engagement"). When the .pdf opened, I searched the doc for the word "rock" and came up with zero results.

I'm still waiting for the 2018 version with the work "rock." Maybe for Xmas.

Originally Posted by bigfish9684

Originally Posted by deflave

I will read it again and look for the word rock.

Thanks.

Dave

Reading is for idiots.

I clicked the link to the Use of Force Policy Handbook (notice it's not "ROE" or "Rules of Engagement"). When the .pdf opened, I searched the doc for the word "rock" and came up with zero results.

I'm still waiting for the 2018 version with the work "rock." Maybe for Xmas.

Did you find the doc for the words "moving vehicle"?

It on page 6

Originally Posted by Fubarski

"A US Border Patrol agent who shot and killed a Mexican teenager in a cross-border shooting incident has been charged with second-degree murder."

https://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Justi...-agent-charged-in-murder-of-Mexican-teen

actually there was another one in the tucson sector, he eventually got off tho, but they did try to hang him.

https://www.azcentral.com/story/new...ol-rock-throwing-killing-cases/85670112/

Steve,

You are correct. The Use of Force policy does state officers/agents shouldn't stand in front of moving vehicles. My understanding is that sentence was added after they hired one too many Minnesotan's.

You'll also note the Use of Force Policy doesn't say an agent can't use deadly force to prevent being seriously injured or killed by a vehicle.

Dave

Originally Posted by deflave

Steve,

You are correct. The Use of Force policy does state officers/agents shouldn't stand in front of moving vehicles. My understanding is that sentence was added after they hired one too many Minnesotan's.

You'll also note the Use of Force Policy doesn't say an agent can't use deadly force to prevent being seriously injured or killed by a vehicle.

Dave

LOL

Typical, you have learned well, when confronted with facts that prove one is either an idiot, a liar, or both, resort to personal attacks. Akin to calling anyone who disagrees with Obama or proves him an idiot and a liar a "racist" or anyone that disagrees with Hillary or proves her wrong, a Sexist. Yup, you have learned well, you should be proud.

Do you really consider what I wrote a personal attack?

Clark

Originally Posted by rockinbbar

Originally Posted by deflave

That's bad ass. In what capacity did you work for the United States Border Patrol?

What was your relative a Commander of? Sounds like he had a fun job.

I didn't know law enforcement personnel had ROE's. I thought they operated under the rule of law. I wonder what the ROE's in Washington state are in comparison to southern California.

This is all fascinating stuff.

Travis

I didn't work for them. After placing my top 3 preferred work stations, they informed me that it wasn't going to happen, and I would be on the Canadian border for 1-2 years. I didn't take them up on it.

My relative was Chief Border Patrol Commander of half a dozen states.

Your local podunk department doesn't have ROE's? Like "You can't engage in high speed pursuits, unless...." Or "You can't taze a subject, unless..."

Go ahead and tell us a rock isn't a projectile, some more. Maybe someone will believe you if you say it often enough, or maybe whisper it...

Could not find any reference to chief border patrol commander but I found this.

There are 20 Border Patrol sectors, each headed by a Sector Chief Patrol Agent.

Originally Posted by deflave

Do you really consider what I wrote a personal attack?

Clark

Just to clarify your comment, how many Minnesotans were hired and how many is "one to many"?

Yeah...

I think perhaps your and my senses of humor are not synced.

Have a Happy Thanksgiving.

Clark

Originally Posted by steve4102

Originally Posted by deflave

Do you really consider what I wrote a personal attack?

Clark

Just to clarify your comment, how many Minnesotans were hired and how many is "one to many"?

One or more.

Originally Posted by jwp475

Originally Posted by steve4102

Originally Posted by deflave

Do you really consider what I wrote a personal attack?

Clark

Just to clarify your comment, how many Minnesotans were hired and how many is "one to many"?

One or more.

TFF

Travis

Originally Posted by deflave

Originally Posted by jwp475

Originally Posted by steve4102

Originally Posted by deflave

Do you really consider what I wrote a personal attack?

Clark

Just to clarify your comment, how many Minnesotans were hired and how many is "one to many"?

One or more.

TFF

Travis

LOL, well it took a Minnesotan to deliver the facts and to show that you have no idea what you are talking about, doesn't say much for you does it.

Originally Posted by 79S

[quote=rockinbbar]

Could not find any reference to chief border patrol commander but I found this.

There are 20 Border Patrol sectors, each headed by a Sector Chief Patrol Agent.

Yeah, I understand how the sectors work.

My great uncle was way older than I am, and retired about the time I got into law enforcement. I didn't ride around with him, or follow him to the office to see what he was called. But, my grandmother referred to him in that manner.

Maybe it's just an unofficial moniker. I don't know.

There are references to "commander" out there though. Probably an error I'm sure.

http://www.sacpaaz.org/announcements/new-managers-for-tucson-border-patrol-sector/

Quote

Paul A. Beeson is the Commander of the Joint Task Force – West, Arizona (JTF-W Arizona) and Chief of the Tucson Sector Border Patrol. As Commander of the JTF-W Arizona, he is responsible for implementing higher level strategic guidance from the Joint Task Force – West and Commissioner of U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP) through command, control and coordination of CBP operational functions within the state of Arizona.

In addition to the JTF-W Arizona roles and responsibilities, Commander Beeson has oversight of Tucson Sector encompassing the tactical and strategic operation of 8 stations and approximately 4,200 personnel who secure 262 linear miles of border. With an increase in infrastructure, officer corps numbers, and force multiplier technologies, the Tucson Sector continues to lead the nation in drug seizures and has realized marked success in seeing a reduced flow of illegal entries and apprehensions

Commander Beeson entered on duty February 25, 1985 with the U.S. Border Patrol as a member of Class 174. His first duty assignment as a Border Patrol Agent was at the Laredo South Station. In July 1988, he transferred to the Dallas Station. Throughout his career, Commander Beeson has served in various leadership positions, starting with his promotion to Supervisory Border Patrol Agent in February 1992 at the Border Patrol Academy. In November 1995, he was promoted to Assistant Chief Patrol Agent at the Border Patrol Academy in Charleston, South Carolina.

Y'all smart folks have sure set us ignorant people straight about differences in jargon.

A rock isn't a thrown projectile.

A Chief doesn't command anything.

Use of Force Policy isn't Rules of Engagement.

Us stupid folks can slither back under our rocks now. Thank you for showing us how ignorant we are, and what liars we are.

Have a Happy Thanksgiving everyone.

Originally Posted by steve4102

Originally Posted by deflave

Originally Posted by jwp475

Originally Posted by steve4102

Originally Posted by deflave

Do you really consider what I wrote a personal attack?

Clark

Just to clarify your comment, how many Minnesotans were hired and how many is "one to many"?

One or more.

TFF

Travis

LOL, well it took a Minnesotan to deliver the facts and to show that you have no idea what you are talking about, doesn't say much for you does it.

Could you show where you did this?

'Flave offered an education to some of you, but you refused to be schooled. When it comes to legal matters, exact wording counts.

Originally Posted by PaulBarnard

'Flave offered an education to some of you, but you refused to be schooled. When it comes to legal matters, exact wording counts.

Absolutely.

But in trying to express thoughts on a forum, outside a court of law, how one might phrase something when responding is pretty inconsequential.

But since exact terminology matters so much here, I'll leave it to those that feel they can be educated further by him.

Originally Posted by deflave

Steve,

You are correct. The Use of Force policy does state officers/agents shouldn't stand in front of moving vehicles. My understanding is that sentence was added after they hired one too many Minnesotan's.

You'll also note the Use of Force Policy doesn't say an agent can't use deadly force to prevent being seriously injured or killed by a vehicle.

Dave

Astonishing that they have to dedicate print to warning their officers not to stand in front of moving vehicles huh? I wonder if they have anything in there about which way the muzzle gets pointed when they shoot.

Originally Posted by rockinbbar

Originally Posted by PaulBarnard

'Flave offered an education to some of you, but you refused to be schooled. When it comes to legal matters, exact wording counts.

Absolutely.

But in trying to express thoughts on a forum, outside a court of law, how one might phrase something when responding is pretty inconsequential.

But since exact terminology matters so much here, I'll leave it to those that feel they can be educated further by him.

It’s actually not inconsequential at all accuracy infact is proffered. Just like a “clip” and a “magazine” are not one and the same, they are entirely different. Without accuracy we lose or convolute the meaning of words.

Originally Posted by rockinbbar

Originally Posted by PaulBarnard

'Flave offered an education to some of you, but you refused to be schooled. When it comes to legal matters, exact wording counts.

Absolutely.

But in trying to express thoughts on a forum, outside a court of law, how one might phrase something when responding is pretty inconsequential.

But since exact terminology matters so much here, I'll leave it to those that feel they can be educated further by him.

I guess I just get his sense of humor.

Originally Posted by PaulBarnard

I guess I just get his sense of humor.

I used to. Before he continues with insulting condescending remarks about how stupid people are that may live in Texas. Non-stop.

Fug him.

Classless drunk.

Originally Posted by rockinbbar

Originally Posted by PaulBarnard

I guess I just get his sense of humor.

I used to. Before he continues with insulting condescending remarks about how stupid people are that may live in Texas. Non-stop.

Fug him.

Classless drunk.

Happy Thanksgiving. Thanks again for all the info you have given me in recent threads.

Originally Posted by rockinbbar

Originally Posted by PaulBarnard

I guess I just get his sense of humor.

I used to. Before he continues with insulting condescending remarks about how stupid people are that may live in Texas. Non-stop.

Fug him.

Classless drunk.

Then stop proving his point.

Originally Posted by rockinbbar

Originally Posted by PaulBarnard

I guess I just get his sense of humor.

I used to. Before he continues with insulting condescending remarks about how stupid people are that may live in Texas. Non-stop.

Fug him.

Classless drunk.

+1

Originally Posted by JGRaider

Originally Posted by rockinbbar

Originally Posted by PaulBarnard

I guess I just get his sense of humor.

I used to. Before he continues with insulting condescending remarks about how stupid people are that may live in Texas. Non-stop.

Fug him.

Classless drunk.

+1

Way too sensitive. Don’t get so in touch with your feminine side.

Originally Posted by JGRaider

Originally Posted by rockinbbar

Originally Posted by PaulBarnard

I guess I just get his sense of humor.

I used to. Before he continues with insulting condescending remarks about how stupid people are that may live in Texas. Non-stop.

Fug him.

Classless drunk.

+1

It doesn't help take the edge off that he makes sport of Minnesotan's too? There's no way in hell I am ever letting him know I am from Mississippi.

Originally Posted by jwp475

Originally Posted by JGRaider

Originally Posted by rockinbbar

Originally Posted by PaulBarnard

I guess I just get his sense of humor.

I used to. Before he continues with insulting condescending remarks about how stupid people are that may live in Texas. Non-stop.

Fug him.

Classless drunk.

+1

Way too sensitive. Don’t get so in touch with your feminine side.

If I could find my feminine side, I would never stop touching it.

Originally Posted by deflave

Originally Posted by rockinbbar

Last I heard, OJ was found guilty and sent to several years in the pen.

He was also found culpable and liable for the deaths of Nicole and Ron Goldman, and has a civil settlement hanging over his head for killing them.

Try again.

Looks like Texas and Michigan are having a face off for most stupid today.

Dave

Originally Posted by deflave

Oops. Never mind.

Texas still leads.

Travis

Fug Dave, Travis, Deflave, or whoever he goes by today.

Insults are insults. Not humor.

Originally Posted by rockinbbar

Originally Posted by deflave

Originally Posted by rockinbbar

Last I heard, OJ was found guilty and sent to several years in the pen.

He was also found culpable and liable for the deaths of Nicole and Ron Goldman, and has a civil settlement hanging over his head for killing them.

Try again.

Looks like Texas and Michigan are having a face off for most stupid today.

Dave

Originally Posted by deflave

Oops. Never mind.

Texas still leads.

Travis

Fug Dave, Travis, Deflave, or whoever he goes by today.

Insults are insults. Not humor.

You are way too feminine acting, I find him funny as hell.

Originally Posted by rockinbbar

Originally Posted by deflave

Originally Posted by rockinbbar

Last I heard, OJ was found guilty and sent to several years in the pen.

He was also found culpable and liable for the deaths of Nicole and Ron Goldman, and has a civil settlement hanging over his head for killing them.

Try again.

Looks like Texas and Michigan are having a face off for most stupid today.

Dave

Originally Posted by deflave

Oops. Never mind.

Texas still leads.

Travis

Fug Dave, Travis, Deflave, or whoever he goes by today.

Insults are insults. Not humor.

Remember, old Travis couldn't make a life in Tex. So he moved back north.

Originally Posted by jwp475

Originally Posted by rockinbbar

Originally Posted by deflave

Originally Posted by rockinbbar

Last I heard, OJ was found guilty and sent to several years in the pen.

He was also found culpable and liable for the deaths of Nicole and Ron Goldman, and has a civil settlement hanging over his head for killing them.

Try again.

Looks like Texas and Michigan are having a face off for most stupid today.

Dave

Originally Posted by deflave

Oops. Never mind.

Texas still leads.

Travis

Fug Dave, Travis, Deflave, or whoever he goes by today.

Insults are insults. Not humor.

You are way too feminine acting, I find them funny as hell.

You can stop when it hits the back of your throat.

Hah!

Originally Posted by MadMooner

Originally Posted by jwp475

Originally Posted by rockinbbar

Originally Posted by deflave

Originally Posted by rockinbbar

Last I heard, OJ was found guilty and sent to several years in the pen.

He was also found culpable and liable for the deaths of Nicole and Ron Goldman, and has a civil settlement hanging over his head for killing them.

Try again.

Looks like Texas and Michigan are having a face off for most stupid today.

Dave

Originally Posted by deflave

Oops. Never mind.

Texas still leads.

Travis

Fug Dave, Travis, Deflave, or whoever he goes by today.

Insults are insults. Not humor.

You are way too feminine acting, I find them funny as hell.

You can stop when it hits the back of your throat.

Hah!

Forget it I don’t let men suck me.

Hard to get PO'd at any man who's a drunk, pity more like it.

Anyhoo.... once in a while Travis puts out useful info, seems to know his way around guns.

i doubt he's a drunk, most just don't get his sense of humor .

Originally Posted by stxhunter

i doubt he's a drunk, most just don't get his sense of humor .

Exactly. He’s no drunk, funny as hell, is what he is.

Originally Posted by PaulBarnard

If I could find my feminine side, I would never stop touching it.

No kidding.........There's a reason God didn't give men Tits.

Originally Posted by jwp475

Originally Posted by stxhunter

i doubt he's a drunk, most just don't get his sense of humor .

Exactly. He’s no drunk, funny as hell, is what he is.

Those lazy fuggin' Minnesotan's at Magnum Research aren't returning my call!

Clark

Originally Posted by rockinbbar

I used to. Before he continues with insulting condescending remarks about how stupid people are that may live in Texas. Non-stop.

Fug him.

Classless drunk.

This is probably the nicest thing anybody has ever said about me.

Clark

Originally Posted by Birdwatcher

Hard to get PO'd at any man who's a drunk, pity more like it.

Anyhoo.... once in a while Travis puts out useful info, seems to know his way around guns.

I'd take a drunk over a teacher 10 times out of 10.

Clark

Originally Posted by deflave

Originally Posted by Birdwatcher

Hard to get PO'd at any man who's a drunk, pity more like it.

Anyhoo.... once in a while Travis puts out useful info, seems to know his way around guns.

I'd take a drunk over a teacher 10 times out of 10.

Clark

What about a Drunken Teacher?

Originally Posted by deflave

Originally Posted by jwp475

Originally Posted by stxhunter

i doubt he's a drunk, most just don't get his sense of humor .

Exactly. He’s no drunk, funny as hell, is what he is.

Those lazy fuggin' Minnesotan's at Magnum Research aren't returning my call!

Clark

Holidays? Maybe.

Originally Posted by jwp475

Originally Posted by deflave

Originally Posted by jwp475

Originally Posted by stxhunter

i doubt he's a drunk, most just don't get his sense of humor .

Exactly. He’s no drunk, funny as hell, is what he is.

Those lazy fuggin' Minnesotan's at Magnum Research aren't returning my call!

Clark

Holidays? Maybe.

That's my guess. Can't say I blame them.

Will try again Monday.

Travis

On another note, Tx DPS Trooper shot and killed on Interstate 45 in Fairfield last night. Perp captured in waller county afterchase & shootout.

Originally Posted by kaywoodie

On another note, Tx DPS Trooper shot and killed on Interstate 45 in Fairfield last night. Perp captured in waller county afterchase & shootout.

Thanks, mind starting a new thread on this with links, this thread has gone to sheet.

I saw that.

Gonna be some sad kids this Christmas.

Travis

Originally Posted by steve4102

Originally Posted by kaywoodie

On another note, Tx DPS Trooper shot and killed on Interstate 45 in Fairfield last night. Perp captured in waller county afterchase & shootout.

Thanks, mind starting a new thread on this with links, this thread has gone to sheet.

Ok!

Edit, sorry fellas. All this stuff, ergo bad news threads and what not, especially when it happens to any of my extended "campfire" family really upsets me.

Cannot emphasize enough the second part of my above comment.

Thanks!

Originally Posted by deflave

Originally Posted by Birdwatcher

Hard to get PO'd at any man who's a drunk, pity more like it.

Anyhoo.... once in a while Travis puts out useful info, seems to know his way around guns.

I'd take a drunk over a teacher 10 times out of 10.

Clark

Reassuring......