If The "Legal Theory" Behind Mueller's Indictment Of The Russians Is Correct .....

..... (And I Am Not Necessarily Saying That It Is) .... Then Real Question Is:

"When can we see similar indictments of Christopher Steele, FusionGPS, the Perkins Coie Law Firm, the DNC, and the Clinton Campaign?"

Very simply, Mueller indicted foreign citizens for trying to influence the American public about an election because those citizens did not register as a foreign agent nor record their financial expenditures to the Federal Elections Commission. He has claimed the social media political activity of the Russian Trolls was criminal because: they were foreign citizens; they tried to influence an election; and they neither registered under the Foreign Agents Registration Act nor reported their funding to the Federal Elections Commission.

OK ..... now let's take a look at the British ex-spook, Christopher Steele: If Mueller’s theory is correct, three things make Steele a criminal: first, he is a foreign citizen; second, he tried to influence an election, which he received payments to do (including from the FBI itself); and third, he neither registered as a foreign agent nor listed his receipts and expenditures to the Federal Election Commission. Also, according to the FBI, along the way, Steele lied…a lot, while the dossier he disseminated contained its own lies based on bought-and-paid for smears from foreign sources reliant on rumors and innuendo.

What about FusionGPS, the Perkins Coie Law Firm, the DNC, and the Clinton Campaign? While not "foreign citizens" each is a "criminal co-conspirator" that furthered Christopher Steele's criminal activities: they all knew Steele was a foreign citizen; they knew Steele was being used to influence an election, and ultimately they paid, or facilitated in the payment of, money to Steele for the express purpose of influencing an election; and while they were doing all of that they knew that Steele had not registered as a foreign agent nor had he reported the funds that he received from them to the Federal Election Commission, and thereby they facilitated Steele's actions in committing those crimes.

Soooo .... using The Grand Inquisitor's Legal Logic ...... when we will a similar indictment for that foreign parasite, Christoper Steele, and the Merry Band of Democrap Miscreants associated with Steele and Hitlary's Campaign?

The answer is NEVER. You see ..... we have one set of laws for The Evil Russian Trolls (who will never be extradited or see a U.S. Court) and another set of laws for the Democraps and their limey parasite buddy .... who would, in all likelihood, see a U.S. Court Room if they were ever indicted for what amounts to the same conduct.

See:

https://lawandcrime.com/opinion/doe...mpaign-can-be-indicted-for-chris-steele/

I'd think Don Jr. isn't sleeping well tonight.

Did you read the counts Mueller brought against the Russians? Conspiracy to commit bank and wire fraud, aggravated identity theft, conspiracy to defraud the US, is there any evidence Steele engaged in those types of illegal activities? Apples and oranges.

Vanity Fair Article: "How Ex-Spy Christopher Steele Compiled His Explosive Trump-Russia Dossier"> Interesting article.

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/201...-dossier-was-compiled-christopher-steele

Apparently, any Russians extradited will not testify to ANYTHING, if recent history means anything.

Originally Posted by djs

Vanity Fair Article: "How Ex-Spy Christopher Steele Compiled His Explosive Trump-Russia Dossier"> Interesting article.

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/201...-dossier-was-compiled-christopher-steele

So, what have you to say in defense of your party of choice having foisted this subterfuge on the American people, djs?

Originally Posted by ftbt

..... (And I Am Not Necessarily Saying That It Is) .... Then Real Question Is:

"When can we see similar indictments of Christopher Steele, FusionGPS, the Perkins Coie Law Firm, the DNC, and the Clinton Campaign?"

Very simply, Mueller indicted foreign citizens for trying to influence the American public about an election because those citizens did not register as a foreign agent nor record their financial expenditures to the Federal Elections Commission. He has claimed the social media political activity of the Russian Trolls was criminal because: they were foreign citizens; they tried to influence an election; and they neither registered under the Foreign Agents Registration Act nor reported their funding to the Federal Elections Commission.

OK ..... now let's take a look at the British ex-spook, Christopher Steele: If Mueller’s theory is correct, three things make Steele a criminal: first, he is a foreign citizen; second, he tried to influence an election, which he received payments to do (including from the FBI itself); and third, he neither registered as a foreign agent nor listed his receipts and expenditures to the Federal Election Commission. Also, according to the FBI, along the way, Steele lied…a lot, while the dossier he disseminated contained its own lies based on bought-and-paid for smears from foreign sources reliant on rumors and innuendo.

What about FusionGPS, the Perkins Coie Law Firm, the DNC, and the Clinton Campaign? While not "foreign citizens" each is a "criminal co-conspirator" that furthered Christopher Steele's criminal activities: they all knew Steele was a foreign citizen; they knew Steele was being used to influence an election, and ultimately they paid, or facilitated in the payment of, money to Steele for the express purpose of influencing an election; and while they were doing all of that they knew that Steele had not registered as a foreign agent nor had he reported the funds that he received from them to the Federal Election Commission, and thereby they facilitated Steele's actions in committing those crimes.

Soooo .... using The Grand Inquisitor's Legal Logic ...... when we will a similar indictment for that foreign parasite, Christoper Steele, and the Merry Band of Democrap Miscreants associated with Steele and Hitlary's Campaign?

The answer is NEVER. You see ..... we have one set of laws for The Evil Russian Trolls (who will never be extradited or see a U.S. Court) and another set of laws for the Democraps and their limey parasite buddy .... who would, in all likelihood, see a U.S. Court Room if they were ever indicted for what amounts to the same conduct.

See:

https://lawandcrime.com/opinion/doe...mpaign-can-be-indicted-for-chris-steele/

Mueller "indicted" those 13 so-called Russians knowing very well that he will never have to prove his case in court, nor follow up with updates on the "investigation", and that once this piece of propaganda spends itself in the Propaganda Corps cycle, it'll die a quiet death and he can continue to tilt at windmills and chase phantoms. I doubt those 13 Russians even exist. They are probably as made-up as the dossier.

For certain no legal expert here - and very little insight to the fed guv skullduggery - but my impression from those Russian indictments is that Mueller is trying to set the table for something closer to home, and maybe nefarious.

I don't believe we'll ever see any of the Russian players in a US Courtroom. Of course, they'll never come back to the US, either.

Originally Posted by Squidge

Did you read the counts Mueller brought against the Russians? Conspiracy to commit bank and wire fraud, aggravated identity theft, conspiracy to defraud the US, is there any evidence Steele engaged in those types of illegal activities? Apples and oranges.

Yes I did. My comments above related to specific allegations in Count One of the indictment that were relevant to Steele and the Democraps that I mentioned. Are all Three Counts in the indictment relevant to Steele and the Democrap Miscreants .... No (apparently not). But, I will make it real simple for you: Separate Counts ... Separate Violations ... Separate Statutes .... Separate Crimes.

I suggest that you re-read paragraphs 7. and 9. of the indictment:

[Linked Image]

"All in violation of Title 18, United States Code, Section 371."

Now .... if Steele, FusionGPS, the Perkins Coie Law Firm, the DNC and Hitlary's Campaign also conspired to commit wire fraud and bank fraud and engaged in identity theft .... that would be "icing on the cake."

Which would be violations of Title 18, United States Code, Sections 1349 and 1028(A)(a)(1) and (2), respectively.

One attorney that I read says that the indictment is absurd and is nothing but a PR event. If so, does that mean Meuller decided there was really never anything there? And he had to get an indictment to serve as a fig leaf?

Without the "icing on the cake" the comparison becomes a false equivalency. Did Steele engage in any of the behavior described in paragraphs 7 through 9? Did Steele spend his own money in the US using deceit and deception in an effort to influence the outcome of the election. Or in contrast did he privately contact US authorities with his concerns?

Originally Posted by denton

One attorney that I read says that the indictment is absurd and is nothing but a PR event. If so, does that mean Meuller decided there was really never anything there? And he had to get an indictment to serve as a fig leaf?

My first thought as well. Mueller's way out while attempting to save face. This does provide the opportunity to "exit stage left". Also great timing to move the conversation away from FBI bungling in Broward school shooting, and FBI member's actual attempts at interference in the election.

OTOH, I suppose it -could- Muller's way in; I guess time will tell.

It shows that there is no there, there. We can indict hundreds of overseas conspirators everyday of the week, if we wanted. It means absolutely nothing.

It creates a detour for them to "prove" Russian collusion without ever having to prosecute anybody on either side of the aisle.

That, being interpreted, means that they found Democrat problems but not enough against Republicans to make it bad for the conservatives. So exit stage left before they have to prosecute some big-name Dems, such as Hillary and Zero.

Originally Posted by denton

One attorney that I read says that the indictment is absurd and is nothing but a PR event. If so, does that mean Meuller decided there was really never anything there? And he had to get an indictment to serve as a fig leaf?

Don't hire that lawyer. That imposes travel restrictions on the indicted. Bounce around the world like those rich guys are used to, land in a country we have an extradition treaty with and could very well end up in a US court. Sorta like sanctions on steroids. Playing silly reindeer games with Putin, there is a down side.

If Mueller is rational what he's doing is closing out one branch of the investigation because he's come to a dead end. That's typically when the indictments come out.

Originally Posted by jaguartx

Originally Posted by djs

Vanity Fair Article: "How Ex-Spy Christopher Steele Compiled His Explosive Trump-Russia Dossier"> Interesting article.

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/201...-dossier-was-compiled-christopher-steele

So, what have you to say in defense of your party of choice having foisted this subterfuge on the American people, djs?

Crickets.

https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2018/02/18/the-russians-didnt-file-a-fisa-warrant/

Originally Posted by jaguartx

Originally Posted by djs

Vanity Fair Article: "How Ex-Spy Christopher Steele Compiled His Explosive Trump-Russia Dossier"> Interesting article.

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/201...-dossier-was-compiled-christopher-steele

So, what have you to say in defense of your party of choice having foisted this subterfuge on the American people, djs?

Well, politics is politics (including he dirty kind, but you've got to stay within legal bounds). But then, Mueller is on the trail of illegal (not dirty) actions. Event he director of National Security (H.R. McMaster) has admitted (finally) that the Russians meddled in out election (according to FOX News).
see: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...rove-russia-meddled-in-us-elections.html

But then, some here will still yell "Fake News", just as they've said before. Or, only DJT still believes it.

This garbage is akin to Vietnam or Cuba or Iran "indicting" American CIA agents when they're back in the US. Gimme a break...

Originally Posted by djs

Originally Posted by jaguartx

Originally Posted by djs

Vanity Fair Article: "How Ex-Spy Christopher Steele Compiled His Explosive Trump-Russia Dossier"> Interesting article.

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/201...-dossier-was-compiled-christopher-steele

So, what have you to say in defense of your party of choice having foisted this subterfuge on the American people, djs?

Well, politics is politics (including he dirty kind, but you've got to stay within legal bounds). But then, Mueller is on the trail of illegal (not dirty) actions. Event he director of National Security (H.R. McMaster) has admitted (finally) that the Russians meddled in out election (according to FOX News).
see: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...rove-russia-meddled-in-us-elections.html

But then, some here will still yell "Fake News", just as they've said before. Or, only DJT still believes it.

Of course they meddled.Thats who helped Steele write that mud slinging BS dossier for Clinton.Surely you figured out that dossier was part of the Russian meddling.Even an idiot would trip over that one.

Where would Soros and his sons stand criminally on election tampering since the Russians have been indicted?

https://theconservativetreehouse.co...ussia-indictment-from-old-news-articles/

Seems that Hannity has read this thread. He just spent a whole segment on this topic with Greg Jarrett.

What struck me were the similarities to Hillary's exoneration. The press conference was given by someone other than the one expected and there were multiple,emphatic references to no Americans knowingly being involved and that the actions did not help nor harm anyone.

"Knowingly" sounds too much like "intent" and seems to set the stage for excusing wrong doing if/when other names come out. This way, anyone exposed in the various investigations can fall back on claiming to have been fooled in a con rather than being an active participant. That no harm or benefit to anyone occurred would allow the masses to shrug off any cries for further investigation and prosecution as partisanship.

I think this was an effort to blunt bad news that may be released. Get ahead and prepare the ground for the message you want told rather than the one that is. Damage control or prevention is what I see this being.

Originally Posted by stevelyn

Originally Posted by ftbt

..... (And I Am Not Necessarily Saying That It Is) .... Then Real Question Is:

"When can we see similar indictments of Christopher Steele, FusionGPS, the Perkins Coie Law Firm, the DNC, and the Clinton Campaign?"

Very simply, Mueller indicted foreign citizens for trying to influence the American public about an election because those citizens did not register as a foreign agent nor record their financial expenditures to the Federal Elections Commission. He has claimed the social media political activity of the Russian Trolls was criminal because: they were foreign citizens; they tried to influence an election; and they neither registered under the Foreign Agents Registration Act nor reported their funding to the Federal Elections Commission.

OK ..... now let's take a look at the British ex-spook, Christopher Steele: If Mueller’s theory is correct, three things make Steele a criminal: first, he is a foreign citizen; second, he tried to influence an election, which he received payments to do (including from the FBI itself); and third, he neither registered as a foreign agent nor listed his receipts and expenditures to the Federal Election Commission. Also, according to the FBI, along the way, Steele lied…a lot, while the dossier he disseminated contained its own lies based on bought-and-paid for smears from foreign sources reliant on rumors and innuendo.

What about FusionGPS, the Perkins Coie Law Firm, the DNC, and the Clinton Campaign? While not "foreign citizens" each is a "criminal co-conspirator" that furthered Christopher Steele's criminal activities: they all knew Steele was a foreign citizen; they knew Steele was being used to influence an election, and ultimately they paid, or facilitated in the payment of, money to Steele for the express purpose of influencing an election; and while they were doing all of that they knew that Steele had not registered as a foreign agent nor had he reported the funds that he received from them to the Federal Election Commission, and thereby they facilitated Steele's actions in committing those crimes.

Soooo .... using The Grand Inquisitor's Legal Logic ...... when we will a similar indictment for that foreign parasite, Christoper Steele, and the Merry Band of Democrap Miscreants associated with Steele and Hitlary's Campaign?

The answer is NEVER. You see ..... we have one set of laws for The Evil Russian Trolls (who will never be extradited or see a U.S. Court) and another set of laws for the Democraps and their limey parasite buddy .... who would, in all likelihood, see a U.S. Court Room if they were ever indicted for what amounts to the same conduct.

See:

https://lawandcrime.com/opinion/doe...mpaign-can-be-indicted-for-chris-steele/

Mueller "indicted" those 13 so-called Russians knowing very well that he will never have to prove his case in court, nor follow up with updates on the "investigation", and that once this piece of propaganda spends itself in the Propaganda Corps cycle, it'll die a quiet death and he can continue to tilt at windmills and chase phantoms. I doubt those 13 Russians even exist. They are probably as made-up as the dossier.

The indictment was a straw man for mueller to save face. This whole thing stinks like a fat chick on a hot day.

First Mueller will show proof the Russian interference did happen. The next link he plans to do is link the Trump administration. Boys don't swallow the first indictments hook line and sinker. Its a set up to the next step. They have already said no Americans unwillingly cooperated with the Ruskies. This will be what they use to let the Clinton's and DNC slide. The word unwillingly is the get out of jail card. The next indictment will be the same way except they will use the term collusion in this next indictment. This one they will try to sink the Trumps. It's as crooked and bias as hell. We should not even be letting this go on.

Here is the next step.

http://thehill.com/policy/national-...ommunicated-with-gates-with-making-false

Quote

Attorney Alex Van Der Zwaan is charged with making “materially false, fictitious, and fraudulent statements and representations” to the special counsel’s office and FBI agents, according to a court filing released Tuesday morning.

Van Der Zwaan allegedly lied about his last communications with Gates and then deleted emails requested by the special counsel’s office, according to the indictment.

Is this tied to Aplha Bank?

Anyone notice that Mueller filed a "criminal investigation" this morning against Alex Van Der Zwaan, an attorney for a law firm, he was charged with making false statements to federal authorities. A "criminal investigation" filing means that he won't be indicted, but will plead guilty in the near future.

Alex Van Der Zwaan is the son in law of German Khan, Khan is one of the founding members of Alpha group.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/po...obe-against-lawyer-accused-lying-n849566

Quote

Special counsel Robert Mueller has filed a new charge against an attorney — the son-in-law of a Ukranian-Russian oligarch named in the controversial Donald Trump dossier — who is accused of lying to investigators in the Russia investigation.

Originally Posted by djs

Anyone notice that Mueller filed a "criminal investigation" this morning against Alex Van Der Zwaan, an attorney for a law firm, he was charged with making false statements to federal authorities. A "criminal investigation" filing means that he won't be indicted, but will plead guilty in the near future.

Not to get picky but Mueller filed a criminal information this morning. An "information" is a charging document used in place of an indictment at times.

It remains to be seen if this is tied to Alpha Bank in any way. If it is, and if you know anything about Alpha Bank and it's current troubles, you would know that there's big news on the horizon and all of it bad.

Stolen from Reddit.

https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/7yw6o6/mueller_unveils_new_charges_in_russia_probe/

Quote

This Alfa Bank?

2016 – On 31 October and 2 November, Franklin Foer reported in Slate that there had been unusual repeated activity from 4 May to 23 September 2016 between two computer servers registered to Alfa Bank in Moscow and a server owned by the Trump Organization.[21][22][23][24][25] The activity also included, to a much lesser extent, communications to a server at Spectrum Health, a medical facility chain led by Dick DeVos, the husband of Betsy DeVos.[21][24] From August through October 2016, the FBI investigated the computer server activity between the Trump Organization and Alfa Bank.[26]

2017 – In January, the Donald Trump–Russia dossier, prepared by former MI6 agent Christopher Steele[27] and denoting various ties between Trump and Russia, was published in full in BuzzFeed News; the dossier mentions Alfa Bank's parent company Alfa Group (spelled "Alpha Group" in the dossier).[28] On 10 March, CNN reported that the FBI was continuing to investigate the unusual computer activity between Alfa Bank and the Trump Organization which had occurred in the summer of 2016, and which had been reported in the media just before the U.S. presidential election.[24][29] Also in March, Alfa Bank was the target of Ukrainian protests.[30] In May, the owners of Alfa Bank filed a defamation lawsuit against BuzzFeed for publishing the unverified Donald Trump–Russia dossier, which alleges financial ties and collusion between Putin, Trump, and Alfa Bank's owners.[31][32] In June, President Trump nominated Brian Benczkowski, the bank's former attorney, to be United States Assistant Attorney General for the Criminal Division.[33]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfa-Bank

Quote

And the timeline for the server communications between Alfa/Spectrum/Trump is pretty eye opening:

The Mayflower hotel meeting was held on April 27, 2016.

The first traffic seen between Alfa and Trump servers was seen on May 6, 2016.

It started out low and slow, see graph here.

The first uptick of traffic is seen on June 2, 2016, the very next day Goldstein sends an email to Don Jr. about Russians having dirt on Hillary.

On June 9, 2016 Don Jr, Manafort and Kushner meet with the Russians at Trump Tower.

On June 10, 2016 another uptick as seen in the graph.

On June 18, 2016 Spectrum joins in and traffic increases and continues to increase through the election.

All data can be seen at this site: http://www.ljean.com/NetworkData.php

NBC news and Reddit? really? you actually believe them?

You should try harder not to be used as a useful idiot

Originally Posted by NeBassman

Alex Van Der Zwaan is the son in law of German Khan, Khan is one of the founding members of Alpha group.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/po...obe-against-lawyer-accused-lying-n849566

Quote

Special counsel Robert Mueller has filed a new charge against an attorney — the son-in-law of a Ukranian-Russian oligarch named in the controversial Donald Trump dossier — who is accused of lying to investigators in the Russia investigation.