The idea of arming school teachers gets batted around here and elsewhere quite a bit.

I am generally opposed to it.

I have had the acquaintance of quite a few teachers in my life. I have two families of them as neighbors. Of all the ones I have known, I would not want to be within a hundred yards of any of them if they had a firearm in their hands. Not ALL teachers, of course, but MOST of them seem not to have a real firm grip on reality, common sense or good judgement, they seem to be the perfect embodiment of the term "snowflake". I honestly do not believe any amount of training would render them competent with a firearm or endow them with the mental capability to react with it in a dangerous, stressful situation. The fact that 90% of them at least are flaming liberals doesnt help any, yet I know two who are conservative gun nuts of the first order, instructors in Hunter Ed and so forth, both of them are goofy as the day is long and I dont want to be around them either.

If we are going to have armed personnel in our schools, let it be professionals; police officers and trained security people who know what they are doing.

Your thoughts?

Very few schools in my area have any man teachers anymore. Or even bus drivers.

School is run by bitches.

Even the SRO was female. Sgt hooks from police academy type. 4-11" dorf penquin dyke. Dorf with a beretta.

Ninja please

Respect for your view, with agreement most teachers shouldn't. I think people who should and could be
responsibly armed should be prerequisite, for school staff. We require parents to protect children, then
require that kids be educated to a point, mostly outside of parental supervision. It follows that those who
are qualified to instruct be required to protect. I don't care if it's teachers, though it would be great if a
teaching applicant could get a job over others because he/she was protection qualified- like hiring a
teacher because you need a coach- but I do think protection personnel should be always armed and
prepared, where public school is required.

I think if they want to, they should be able to. That will weed out the snowflakes. Train the remainder.




P

When we had the first hand-wringing, do-nothing-of-substance staff meeting after Columbine, I volunteered that I would be willing (and capable) of carrying. You would have thought that I had just told the biggest joke in the history of western civilization. I guess I at least lightened the mood.

Initial training should be rigorous, expensive, with cost borne by the individual. Outcome of initial training is a professional credential or license which, like most other professional licenses, requires annual or biannual continuing education/training. This is terror interdiction training, not CC training, and should be treated as such. Snowflakes should wash out due to training rigor. I don't know what this looks like because I'm not LE or military, but I presume select LE and military minds could come up with appropriate training.

Credentialing per the above would grant hiring preference and a non-modest salary bump: enough to incentivize. Continuing education and training would be paid by the school, and would count for whatever continuing ed is required to keep their teaching certs. Effort must be made to keep ID of those credentialed confidential - any sort of published annual accounting must only state #s of credentialed in a school...no names. Students and staff would clue in, but this adds a layer of uncertainty (deterrence) for attackers.

The credentialed would have no duty to engage, and would be protected from liability, as would the school, and this would need to be encoded in law. This hedges that those seeking credential are doing so in good faith.

Each classroom would be equipped with a visible safe, bolted to the wall, and secure from access by anyone except the school's armed security leader and the room's teacher, if he/she is credentialed per the above. This is needed to maintain visible deterrent...nobody knows what's in there. The credentialed teacher need not be carrying at all times.

Just some ignorant schmuck's unvetted ideas...

Does anyone not realize our military is already on the payroll? If the snowflakes can't handle letting poor little Johny, and Suzzie be guarded by the best in the world. Then home school the little sons a beeches. Because it is obvious they are incapable of teaching them from kindergarten through 12th. To respect our military, and they are there to protect you. And are the best in the world. This along with concealed carry would end this chit!!! This chit is only complicated for retards. Oops I forgot they aren't retards, no one is shooting up the capital building. Guess that must mean either they have an agenda, or plain don't give a chit.






Take care, Willie

If you really want to keep guns out of Schools. You put men at the Doors with guns. Simple. When they banned guns in Dodge City they did not just put up a sign. They put men at the edge of town with GUNS! I have no problem with gunfree zones as long as they are hardened. Until then I will continue to carry mine into gunfree zones.

There are nearly 500,000 school buses in the US.

We have about 1,300,000 people in the military.

We can put one service person on each school bus in the country, or we can wage war, but not both.

If our schools are to be defended, the resources have to come from people already in place in schools, or from volunteers. The original American ideal was no standing army, and little in the way of a professional police force. It was more or less the Swiss model, where everybody goes about their normal business until there is a time of need.

There is police at every school where I work. Two at high school and junior highs. We have our own armed police force.

Works for me. Israel (sorry TRH & Bristoe) have "hardened" their schools with both armed teachers as well as visitor controls and they have ZERO issues.

If they're not 110% sure they can pull the trigger, then not no, but hell no, snowflake commie lib teachers will not a good janitor make.

How about "don't ask, don't tell," if you have a concealed weapon permit? That's the law in Utah. If you have a license, you can carry in school as an employee and not tell administrators. Administrators are also barred from asking teachers and staff members about it. The only restriction is that it must be concealed on the person at all times when on school property, and cannot be stored anywhere outside the immediate control of the teacher/staff member, so no locking them in lockers or desk drawers.

PS So far it seems to be working out well in Utah. They've permitted teacher carry for years now.

"If we are going to have armed personnel in our schools, let it be professionals; police officers and trained security people who know what they are doing."

Totally disagree. All teachers/school staff already have the right to carry a firearm to protect themselves and their students just like any other law abiding citizen, not just the ones you'd prefer to have that right.

This.

Teachers/administrators would have to be only those that are willing and capable with extensive training. It should be top secret which teachers/administrators would be carrying.

You must have a different breed of police officers there than what we have. I'm as comfortable with our teachers carrying as I am our local police force. They are all human, and some will make mistakes. The damned "no guns" signs sure ain't working.

How would you feel if your student were wounded or killed by collateral damage from minimumaly trained teachers engaging a threat? It's a job for well trained professionals who know how and when to engage a threat so that collateral damage is avoided. They're not perfect I'm not saying that but are far better trained at engaging a threat and returning fire under stress. Teacher's job is to protect the students, shelter in place/evacuate as the situation dictates. There have been active shooter situations on college and university campuses and the administration advised student CCW holders to move away from the area and wisely so.

The left makes that very same argument in opposition to the general right to keep and bear arms, other than by government approved "professionals."

No different than I'd feel if my child were wounded or killed by a policeman or security guard doing the same thing.

The one common denominator among nearly all these mass shootings is that they take place in a "gun free zone".

Gun stores and police offices are rarely targets for mass shootings.

"It's a job for well trained professionals who know how and when to engage a threat so that collateral damage is avoided."

So you believe the right to defend yourself is only granted to well trained professionals.

I wouldn't mind it but I would want a security vault that was in my classroom. Very few teachers would engage like the gents at Lakeland HS. However, you would do what is necessary to save your students.

You remember the coach who was killed trying to protect students in the most recent school shooting?

I wish he'd have had a Glock in his pocket. Might not have changed a thing, but he'd at least had a fighting chance.

Every LEO was once a civilian, and probably will be again. They have no magical, superior natural capability.

It's funny what we've been conditioned to think. Badge+gun=good.
Hell, we'll let a complete stranger cut our chest or head open without a second thought, just because he's wearing a white lab coat.

I know a preacher that moved from here to one of the Carolinas to take another church. He is not a "gun guy" but told me on one of his visits here that he now carries.

This world is messed up.

Just think of the uncertainty, for criminals, produced by knowing that one in three school employees is trained and equipped. That is very much within reach. Why do we assume teachers can't learn or don't care? ;-{>8

Arm teachers??? So they can do exactly what??? Let's try bringing back ass whoopins first....respect for the flag and mandatory pledge of allegiance at the beginning of the school day....turning off electronics (cell phones, I pods, etc.) we never had these mass school shootings back before the hard core socialists took over the education system and started turning our young men and women into what we used to call sociopaths by condoning and even encouraging what was once called abhorrent behavior....

Trap, you have much more confidence in our education system than I. Not sure but I believe it was Hitler. That said ya can take over an entire country with out firing a shot. Through educating the children. Take a look around for the last fifty or so years. And we are suppose to think these same people will do what is right for the same country, and principals in which they are distroying????






Take care, Willie

I am all for arming teachers and others carrying on campus. Obviously the gun free zones don't prevent criminals from bringing guns on campus so why should I be banned from the practice. I don't think they should be required to get special training and don't think it should be mandatory. However, I believe it should be advertised that people may be armed at the schools so if you plan to murder someone there you had better think twice. You might be facing one or several gun carriers that you don't know about.

"Arm teachers??? So they can do exactly what???"

Protect themselves and their students. Ass whippings don't work anymore because of all the poor kids with ADHD and autism that have little self control.

Teachers? gemme a break. How many school teachers do you guys know?

There is by no doubt more students more qualified to carry than teachers..

Armed guards, even a few at each school would only by chance be in the right place at the right time....

Keep thinking...............

I'm of the opinion we see a lot more of the latter because of a lack of the former, rather than a decrease in effectiveness.

If you have multiple armed defenders engaging an active shooter in a crowded hallway filled with panicked people there will most likely be collateral casualties. Friendly fire casualties. That is no argument against armed defenders. They would most likely save many more than they might wound or kill. It is almost a guarantee that a more adept and committed shooter than the ones we've seen so far will be forthcoming and produce a truly horrible death toll. I don't see how there could be security other than maybe a detention center/jail type with sally ports that would work to keep out all possible people with weapons. Imagine taking in 2 or 3 thousand students a day under airport or jail criteria. Then the entrance staging area outside the secure perimeter would be an inviting and extremely vulnerable target. In an attack casualties will result. It seems to me that the danger posed by having trained armed personnel on staff is a risk worth taking. The fear that a student might disarm a teacher and use the weapon is in fact valid. Any LEO is told in basic training that a large percent of officers shot are shot with their own weapon. As to the suggestion to use the military to guard civilian schools, aren't they prohibited by law from doing domestic law enforcement? There are no easy answers and we might as well get ready to accept that this will continue and put people in place to minimize it.

Difficult training, paid by the candidate, resulting in a perishable credential. Obvious award: credential, substantial pay increase, hiring preference. Hidden award: a gradual change in teacher workforce to those willing to be part of the solution than the problem...

No requirement to engage shooter, and no liability if they do, encoded in law. Rigor of training and continuing ed/training will help preclude folks from gaming the system for more $$. There will always be opportunists, but most of the successful candidates will have the right mindset to protect and engage.

"To do exactly what?" To Stop some [bleep] from killing more kids is what. Apparently you think its better for the teacher to fling themselves in front of them to stop the bullets with their body. If I had a kid in school I would want every teacher armed. I would guess every one of them would give their life to protect their students. I would rather they live and sacrifice the bad guys life to protect their students.

Expecting society to change from the moral downward spiral it has been on over the past 50 years in time to stop the next tragedy is the wrong course.I agree we need to reverse the spiral but other measure need to be taken as we turn.

Most school shooters are using AR type rifles. A 9mm is no match for that. If shooters know that a teacher might have a concealed gun, guess who gets shot first..

Same argument could be made against police carrying handguns. It will just cause murderers to shoot them first. Why aren't we disarming our police forces based on this line of reasoning?

I would prefer we invest money in making the school safe by other means than counting on armed teachers.

that said, I'm surprised there are so many strong 2A people saying a teacher shouldn't carry a weapon.



I'd rather hear about a teacher shooting it out with an armed intruder than one getting shot hiding in a closet.

This. Rigorous psych evaluation and background check then scenario based training.

"Teachers? gemme a break. How many school teachers do you guys know?"

I know a lot of teachers. Many of these teachers have concealed handgun permits and practice shooting regularly, probably more than a lot of cops do. I have no use for you socialist SOB's who believe that a law abiding citizen doesn't have the right to self defense unless they meet some government mandated standards. Most teachers today are Mothers and every Mother I've ever known would give their lives to protect their children. All the teachers I know (men and women) said they would give their lives if necessary to protect their students. I would rather them not have to give their lives while trying to protect their students. I have 5 Grandkids in school they would be much safer if some of the teachers and school staff were armed.

Myself and one of our custodians both have LE experience, We have one teacher with combat experience in the gulf, and another with 8 years of army experience, as well as a licensed bail bondsman that teaches.

We would all be willing and able

Why not, schools are about the only place there are not armed guards..

I'm not saying to disarm anyone but it's still a handgun against a high capacity rifle. A rifle isn't that concealable and even a small amount of security should be able to reveal one. Most schools have no security at all and anyone can just walk in with one in a pack.

I'm surprised too. An armed teacher may not be able to stop an armed intruder but it sure does increase the odds that she will be able to if she's armed.

Yeah. But imagine that I could have a handgun with a baker ballistic shield and the students knew that that was coming.

I guess I wasn't really clear enough....I have no problem with teachers who would like to arm themselves....but why on earth are we allowing the schools to keep nurturing an environment where kids feel empowered to do this schitt???

I have no problem with arming school teachers, so long as they voluntarily agree to be armed and properly trained; this training should be based on police training and include safe handling, marksmanship, legal issues, when to shoot and when not to shoot, etc.

One issue I can see is if a shooting starts, kids will flee and the halls will be crowded making a god shot difficult or impossible. Of course, the teachers would have to be held legally responsible for their actions, just as any legally armed civilian is.

I read where a survivor of the Columbine shooting is a Colorado state legislator. He wants teachers armed.

Its not necessary to harden the schools enough to defeat every threat only enough to place doubt in the mind of perspective shooter as to weather a school is soft enough to allow his rampage to be successful. Even if a shooter decides to proceed with his plan, he will have to think about a possible armed opponent in every room. That certainly will complicate the shooters planning. Anything that slows the attack, gives responders more time to arrive and intercede.

If armed teachers or other plains clothes security assets are permitted its important that they are not identified as such, not only because it might make them first targets, but because not identifying those carrying, means that would be shooters would have to assume that there might be many more than there are. Create enough doubt and many perspective perps will choose other targets, or just stay home.

Unless teachers are armed with AR's with the chainsaw on the accessory rail, the kids are fuct. Admit it.

Well, Willie, I may have to admit a bit of provincial naivete, but where this isn't viable, pros could be hired. It looks to me like the teachers in Florida did their profession proud. Godspeed.

[quote=wdenike]Does anyone not realize our military is already on the payroll? If the snowflakes can't handle letting poor little Johny, and Suzzie be guarded by the best in the world. Then home school the little sons a beeches. Because it is obvious they are incapable of teaching them from kindergarten through 12th. To respect our military, and they are there to protect you. And are the best in the world. This along with concealed carry would end this chit!!! This chit is only complicated for retards. Oops I forgot they aren't retards, no one is shooting up the capital building. Guess that must mean either they have an agenda, or plain don't give a chit.


Not a bad idea ^^^^ Cheaper than paying to go full blown Alcatraz at all our schools. Rotation of National Guard Soldiers at every school...Change out their issued digital camo BDU’s for something more appealing and non-threatening to the soft palate liberals, say, skinny jeans and a black “Che Lives” Tee-shirt for uniforms.

Arm them with AR’s, Glocks and access to a few non-Lethal options for hammering the schit out of the punk mouthed student who thinks it’s okay to tell their teacher to F’off in class...Problem greatly reduced and cost effective ta-boot.

I suspect the cowards who do this kind of thing will be averse to taking on ANY return fire. And, they give it very real consideration.

I know not every teacher will be able to handle having a gun on them and reacting accordingly, but that doesn't mean we ban the rest from doing it. Many of the teachers in my kids schools are former military and most all hunt. As a friend mentioned while here hunting is he has never been in a place that everyone talks about hunting. Now I know hunting doesn't translate to defending, but what it does mean is most have experience with guns and are not afraid to use them. Heck we still have pictures of kids with guns on billboards in school here.

It seems that lots of the perps historically commit suicide rather than deal with armed response.

Exactly. You beat me to it. Not to mention the fact that even a compact sized handgun, competently handled, can be a match for an AR at room distance ranges, which is most of what's going to be encountered within a school.

What do you base your opinion on? Have you been around young kids that have ADHD or autism. I have and they can't relate an ass whipping to their bad behavior like a normal child can.

Exactly - I would bet on a guy like Hickok45 (a school teacher by profession) against any punk with an AR-15 any day. The big advantage of a rifle is range and at room/ hallway distances that advantage isn't as critical. I'm sure there's more than a few teachers/ school staff that compete in the shooting sports and would gladly take on the training and responsibility if the school board would let them. I disagree with the gun safes in the classroom. The weapons should be on the person concealed for the entire shift.

I'll admit I was being a bit flip about it, but still, where was all the ADHD when I was in school?

How would the shooter know which teacher had a "concealed" gun? I have no doubt that if I was a teacher that was armed with a drawn 9mm pistol and you came around a corner I could shoot you before you could raise your AR-15 and point it at me.

TFF.....I’m sorry but that’s about the dumbest, most ass backwards logic you could use. You’d prefer to take a chance on a murderer on a murderous rampage not shooting your kid on purpose over having a CCW carrying citizen engage the shooter because your kid might get hit by accident by the CCW . 🙄

That’s liberal gobbledygook if I’ve ever seen it. If that was a joke then you got me because I lol’d.

Kid's weren't required to take multiple vaccines that contained poisonous preservatives like mercury and aluminum back then. One good swat with a wooden paddle was usually enough to end the bad behavior of most kids including myself.

No Ace,

He really is that stupid.

Seems to me like everyone nixing the idea of armed teachers are also nixing the idea os civilians with CCW permits. Why the difference between Joe Plumber the civilian and Mr Simith the teacher. I'm sure most teachers would rather not carry, but for those that would, given strict LE training why not let them?

Trap, hope ya didn't take the post wrong. I along with ya would wish they would all carry. And I may be throwing a big loop. When it comes to teachers. But the overwhelming majority are union thugs. That don't have the same feelings most on here do. As a collective they will have to do much for me to respect them. Sorry to the ones out side the loop. And Godspeed to you and yours.







Take care, Willie

Yep. Lots of rainbow snowflakes in the teaching ranks. But it only takes one salty dog or tough old broad to square up one of those little pups. You will find one in every building and I bet, I just bet that they are the most well liked and respected teacher in each building.

Just the presence of armed response could be enough deterrent. School shooters don't want to fight their way in.





P

What's the time period? I started Kindergarten in 1970 and took a number of vaccines throughout my childhood.

In fact, that's what Utah law requires, i.e., it prohibits storing in locked containers. The guns are required to be concealed on the person of the staff member while on school property, and administrators are prohibited from asking staff if they are carrying a firearm.

+1

Such 'professionals' should know what they are doing, but its been proven time and time again
its a crapshoot as whether they actually do.

A competently armed on the spot school staff member even without such 'pro level skills' could still potentially
dissuade a perp from continuing (or starting) his destructive rampage....and it may take a lot less than
spraying 30 rounds from a Glock to do so.

Consider that critical seconds and ASAP responses can count toward saving lives.
... it may not always require killing the prep....or always require jackboot SWAT or Delta Force skills.





Well then,..Those LE/military minds that are to be given the responsibilty of 'appropriate training' better be very select,
you only have to see how hopeless and inept some specialist anti-terror trained LE are on the job now.

Only read op .

The OPORTUNITY ( with appropriate training) for teachers to go armed would bring uncertainty to many would be shooters in that the school would no longer be an absolutely known “soft target”. They (some anyway) would go elsewhere. Ain’t a lot of police stations or gun stores get hit.

Would it reduce the number of school shootings? I think so. Would it reduce the overall number of mass shootings? Probably not by much, if any.

Lunch is over - gotta go

Your next to last sentence says it all. School teachers, by and large came out of a life of academia and stayed in the same life/work style. Many that I've known over the years would scare the schittt out of me did I know they were armed at all. I mean no dis-respect to teachers but for many of them, the real world was never a part of their life's agenda.
Let the flaming start!

You are at an event with your family. There are a lot of people there. Some kid walks in and starts shooting folks with an AR.

Would you rather:
1) Hide under your chair wondering how long it will be before he shoots you.
2) Bum rush him and hope for the best.
3) Know that you, and likely several other folks scattered about are armed and able to return fire. ???

I do not like the way our kids are mandated by government to be herded into a building, protected only by a "no guns allowed" sign.
Many folks here have stated in the past that they won't go in a movie theater, restaurant, or store if they aren't allowed to be armed, yet send their kids off everyday to a similar place.
I'm not advocating arming children, but teachers are adults, and should have the same rights to protect themselves as I do. The fact my child may benefit from this is a great bonus.
If your kid has a teacher you wouldn't want around your kid with a firearm, you need to work to get rid of that teacher.
All teachers would not want to carry, and that is fine. I would like for them to make that decision for themselves.

I'll see if I can find out. I read that kid's today get 38 shots before age 1 1/2. I think they have finally removed mercury from most the vaccines they give kids now. One of my Grandsons got one shot containing several vaccines when he was a toddler and he almost died. He was in intensive care for a long time and they thought he had meningitis. I started school in 1950 and the only vaccines we were given were for polio twice (a drop on the tongue) and small pox twice (a drop on your arm that they scratched with a needle). After the 1st small pox vaccine you got big nasty sore on your arm about the size of a nickel. If you didn't get a reaction when you got the 2nd small pox vaccine a few years later they figured you were immune. This was all done in elementary school by a nurse.

Victoro,

I have 6 kids. They don't get any were near that many shots.

We've erraticed small pox, so we they no longer vaccinate for it.

Must be a different world up in Wyoming, all the schools around have have full-time LEO's.

26,000 plus public high schools in America, The odds are still astronomically small that this will happen at any given school. I myself got my CHL when they first arrived, 1995 in Texas, going on 23 years ago.

I would love to know how many teachers in Utah are packing, but the bottom line is that some are and there have been as yet no problems.

My concerns center on 1) AD's, 2) forgetting a handgun somewhere, and 3) inadvertently dropping or losing possession of the handgun. This even happens to trained professionals.

I would insist on the Isaeli policy: You'll note that all those rifles over there are carried empty chamber, magazines carried attached to the rifle but not in the magazine wells.. Likewise semi-auto pistols are carried with an empty chamber, a practice which doubtless lowers the the incidence of ADs. In Israeli practice the slide is racked while the handgun is being presented. Another plus is that if a high school kid did get their hands on it, most would not know to rack the slide. And especially on those where an applied safety locks the slide, almost none would know to disengage the safety and then rack the slide.

To avoid handguns left in restrooms or on teacher's desks I would mandate that the handgun and holster cannot ever be detached from the teacher's clothing on school property, even when using the restroom.

Times when I have even felt like I needed a handgun at school over the past 30 years = 0.

Times when I have been on the floor breaking up fights, or in the middle of a fight breaking it up, or obstructing an agitated student from getting in a fight = oh, I dunno, maybe 20? 30? 40? (one time I was on the ground out in the parking lot with a parent who had come on campus to help beat up someone else's kid ).

I would mandate retention holsters of some kind even for concealed carry so the handgun doesn't go spinning off across the hallway amid all those students' feet at some point.

Times when I have pushed through packed hallways jammed with kids = maybe not actually every day depending on my movements around school, but at least a few times a week.

Forget the part about "concealed carry being an absolute secret" or whatever. Unless its a mousegun completely obscured in a pocket holster, eventually the the kids WILL spot it printing on clothing. Actually it doesn't matter at all if they do. Wouldn't even bother me if the teachers packed openly, so long as the handgun was secure in a retention holster. See, if it is both stupid and possible, eventually a teenager will attempt it, this is an immutable law of teenage behavior. Sooner or later a kid is gonna come up from behind and make a joke about trying to grab the handgun, wherever it is. Another reason to insist on retention holsters.

JMHO,
Birdwatcher

Very succinct, Birdwatcher and dead center.

I am not aware of any law in Alaska that mandates schools to be "gun-free zones"..

I believe it comes down from Admin - who are mostly all libs, and are also fearful of lawsuits. But I don't know of any schools here that are NOT deemed "gun free" either.

I could be ignorant, and wrong, however.....

That's officially. In one ( "gun free" - District Policy) elementary school I worked in, we had an unstable parent that concerned us. Same guy that, with his family in the car at McDonalds drive-thru, was messing with his Glock which he had just picked up. Blew his knee-cap off.... HA!

Anyway, one time when he came unglued over something pertaining to the school, and made some threats, I know there was at least one unauthorized piece on campus for a couple weeks during school hours.

I highly suspect the Principal - a former Miss Alaska, and a hunter - also had one.

At an Inservice one time one of the local cops (during the "Cower in Place") segment, claimed they could be there in 2 minutes.

Big deal. How long from incident start to the call being placed? How long, once on site, for the cops to get organized, enter the building, then track down the perp before they can take effective action.

I made myself unpopular with some (including the cop), popular with others (fewer), by pointing out that with a couple pockets full of loose ammo for a 4 or 5 shot bolt action rifle, a half-way competent shooter could reload several times and likely get off 20 rounds or more in that 2 minutes. Someone armed and already in the building could respond much faster. I left it at that, not suggesting an armed security officer or armed teachers as an alternative, but some got it - mostly the ones logical enough to see the cop's "reassurance" as treading on a faulty premise.

And of course, with stripper clips or detachable mags,"high capacity" or not, that fire rate could multiply several times. As has been shown.

Plenty of retired military guys who would be glad to take the job..

More than enough veterans looking for work and would not need a lot of additional training.

Ever run into a fight between three 100Kilo large girls seeking to permanently disfigure each other and will cry rape if you grab them the wrong way or sue you if you take any them to the ground? I work with a lot of very good vets at Sportsman's Warehouse that could handle the situation but its not as easy as a lot of you folks think. Boys are easy-they have been kind of neutered in the modern world. Bois are another thing entirely. They stop if you are louder and more rude than they are to but the only time SROs have to use their tasers round here is with larger girls.

This right here ^^^ is the primary reason for allowing teachers to carry. Just the thought that someone is likely armed will be the primary deterrent for punks that want to shoot up schools.

My thoughts are that being a teacher shouldnt defacto forfeit ones 2A rights. Working in a school with kids shouldnt negate your ability to defend yourself and/or family & friends.

If you dont want teachers to be able to choose to carry, then you hsould apply that to the rest of the general public.

You arent one of those "2A for LEO and retired military only" types, right?

vast majority of school teachers are anti American commies, and would not wear a gun in the first place.

They are Americans with the Right to Bear Arms.

We just did a whole long thread about what works so well in Israel to protect their kids...

This debate about arming teachers , I think it is a good idea. However , it is obvious that a large percentage of present day teachers will need to be replaced as they are simply not up to the task.


Mike

I'm glad Birdwatcher isn't a teacher at my 16 year old Grandson's High School. I think Texas is eventually going to allow teachers to be armed in all school districts.

I agree but it shouldn't be a job requirement.

Why not ?


Mike

The supply of decent, qualified people that are willing to work for peanuts while being hated up on by nearly everyone (does anyone here think teachers actually do a good job? No, of course not), is pretty damn small. Adding another requirement will further reduce the number of people in that sector of the work force. The smartest and brightest folks have already left teaching, or never entered the profession because of pay and public perception of teachers.

Never! Never use anyone who does not want the duty.

Every teacher doesn't own a pistol and some people are scared to death of any firearm. We the individual right to keep and bear arms but we don't have the right to force someone else to keep and bear arms.

It's not about making them do anything.

If they do not want the job they are free to go.

If they do not want to do all that the job entails then they need not apply.

Mike

I just called the Al office of sen doug jones who said arming the idea of arming teachers is insane. I told tge answering lady that is an insult to teachers and israel as that is just what they do. I asked her if he thot teachers or Isralis are insane and she crawfished. She then asked my zip code and i told her the impt thing was wbo my political party donations go to. That shut her up.

I wish i had known the teachers in Utah are allowed to carry. Wish someone would slap his office with that. 205--731-1500 and ask if he thinks the folks and teachers in Utah are insane. .

??

Because I expressed concern, based upon real-world examples about 1) AD's 2) leaving the gun somewhere and 3) losing it during a typical altercation?

And then suggested what they do in Israel?

Or maybe its just me I dunno.

If they DO ever let us carry I would prefer to do so openly, in a retention holster.

Being armed should be a requirement for the job of teaching.

Teachers should have to undergo firearms training and qualifications.

This would be a win-win , our schools would gain security and instead of being dominated by leftists our education system would take a hard RIGHT turn.


Mike

I'm sorry so many of you guys live where teachers are such pansies. I would bet on a majority of the teachers at our schools to fight back. Women included.

You don't "arm the teachers", you simply remove the 'no guns" signs and allow them to excersise their second amendment right. It ain't that damn hard. If you don't trust them with a gun, you are a fool to trust them with your children.
We are to the point we need to require some personal responsibility from folks.

South Dakota has allowed armed school sentinels since July 2013. No problems have been reported anywhere with its implementation.

Here's the law:

"13-64-1. School board may implement school sentinel program. Any school board may create, establish, and supervise the arming of school employees, hired security personnel, or volunteers in such manner and according to such protocols as the board may believe to be most likely to secure or enhance the deterrence of physical threat and defense of the school, its students, its staff, and members of the public on the school premises against violent attack. Those so authorized shall be referred to as school sentinels.

Source: SL 2013, ch 93, § 1. "

And the training required:


"School Sentinel Training Program

Law Enforcement Training provides training for all approved school sentinels. The training course for the school sentinel program consists of at least 80 hours of training in the following subject areas.

Firearms proficiency
Use of force
Legal aspects
Weapons retention
Identifying protocol for identifying sentinel
First aid

The school board may submit a person for school sentinel training only if the person meets the following requirements:

Is a citizen of the United States;
Is at least 21 years of age at time of appointment;
Has fingerprints taken by a qualified law enforcement officer;
Is of good moral character;
Is a graduate of an accredited high school or has a high school equivalency certificate acceptable to the commission;
Is examined by a licensed physician who certifies, on forms prescribed by the commission, that the applicant is able to perform the duties of a school sentinel;
Is interviewed in person by the school board or its designee and approved by the school board to apply to the school sentinel basic training course;
Has received written approval to apply to the school sentinel basic training course by all local law enforcement agencies with jurisdiction over the school premises in which the individual will act as a school sentinel;
Has not unlawfully used any prescribed drug, controlled substance, or marijuana within one year before the time of application for training; and
Has a valid concealed weapons permit."

And the liability protections:

"Does the School Sentinel Program provide immunity from liability?

Yes. The Program provides liability immunity for certain persons and entities. Specifically, S.D.C.L. § 13-64-15 provides "No law enforcement officer or county sheriff, nor the Law Enforcement Officers Standards Commission, Division of Criminal Investigation, Office of Attorney General, the State of South Dakota, nor any agents, employees, or members thereof, is liable for any injury caused by, related to, or resulting from:

The implementation of the school sentinel program established by this chapter;
The adoption, promulgation, administration, or implementation of educational and training standards for school sentinels;
The training provided by the Law Enforcement Officers Standards Commission, the Division of Criminal Investigation, the Office of Attorney General, or the state;
The approvals required by the county sheriff under this chapter; or
The performance, administration, or implementation of any services or programs that assist a school district in carrying out its duties under this chapter."

That escapes the hardline critics of 'lib' school teachers and doctors, who also treat or save the lives
of their critics children in hospitals.

'Don't you touch my guns , but you can spend the best part of the day with my child educating them for me ...
or run your scalpel and anaesthetic through, or save them from drug overdoses..cancer, etc,etc,.

I don't fault the "armed security guard" for hiding at the Florida school shooting.

Take into account if the "guard" went gunning for the perp, do you think that the incompentant police would
have mistakin him as the gun man/woman perp?
😉And shot his ass bacause he had a gun
elimating the threat?

Playing "hero" is not a friendly job.

Heck no,
Ex cops or military should not be given a job protecting schools just because they were cops or
military.

This is a slippery slope.....

Sorry, I disagree with this. There are too many teachers that aren't suited as human beings, let alone for gun carry and would wash out of a real training program.

Any staff wishing to be armed has to be a volunteer. You can't press anyone unwilling into service. It takes a certain mindset and someone forced won't act when required. Those who volunteer have already answered the necessary critical questions that need to be asked to themselves.


The leftist dominate and propagandize through organizations like the NEA. Like a lake full of junk aquatic life, the indoc....er educational system needs to be poisoned before we can eradicate the Marxist cancer that pervades it.

That said, there are several training facilities that offer an armed school staff training course.

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[url=http://www.ohioccwclasses.com/armed-teacher-program/]

fastersaveslives.org

I think it should be professional personnel like ex or retired military,state police,etc., not teachers unless they meet the requirements, extensive background check and professional certified training also on anyone before they are hired. This may not be the best solution to this problem but it is the only one I can think of to stop this.

Nope.

Nope to metal detectors,or wanna be heros.

Bingo. As usual, the question is being posed in such a way as to make it seem controversial. What should be controversial is the idea that teachers surrender their right to life-preservation while at work.

I think if schools put a safe in every class room. With the same model hand gun locked in it. Than made it mandatory for entire school staff to take a class. To completely be 100% familiar with said weapon. Then instructed in the event of a active shooter they are mandated to shelter in place. ( class rooms not hallways ) Which they do like sheep now any way. Even the most anti gun retard. Will have a choice to make if a shooter was trying to shoot his way into said class room. Have the gun pointed at the door ready, or prepare to be another school death statistic. Their choice, wonder what it would be. I also wonder what a shooters choice would be to enter a facility knowing these terms of engagement ????








Take care, Willie

Uhh....I'm hearing he was an on-duty sheriffs deputy....and he wasn't alone...3 other deputies also took up "defensive" positions instead of going proactive....and I seriously doubt that anybody would have mistaken somebody running TOWARDS the sound of gunshots as the perpetrator...

How so? I just don't see the downside of a well developed program that would allow teachers to carry with the proper training. I am open minded though, so I can be convinced it's a bad idea.

Study Utah and South Dakota for states that already have armed school personnel, and have for years.

Quit pretending that the wheel needs to be re-invented. There are programs that already work and have the bugs already worked out.

KInda sorts the conjecture, doesn't it?

Exactly!

Well devolved is not there yet.

Heck, I would go in trying to eliminate the threat but chances are I would be elimated
because the Popo would not know I was a friendly....... just some guy with a gun.

I'm just trying to see it from the other side. If he was a plain clothes guard, chances are he would have been killed by the cops.
More training is needed to make that work. You don't just give a guy a gun and say protect us.🙄

It isn't hollywoood.

You will be amazed what adrenaline will do or prevent you from doing.

It is a sucky situation. Period.

He wasn't a "guard", he was a sworn Deputy Sheriff.

He took taxpayer money to do a job, and failed to to that job. As a tax payer I'm fully entitled to judge his performance.

I judge him a coward and a failure as a man who need to repay every dollar of taxpayer money he' ever accepted.

True. I can't argue with that.