Been a while since I updated my CPR/first aid certs. Anyone ever take one of the 16 hour wilderness first aid classes? Are they worth it, or is it 16 hours of tying a triangle bandage? Not expecting paramedic type stuff, but something more than advanced bandage application and chest compressions would be great.

I’ve heard good things about the wilderness first classes but being an EMT I haven’t taken it. I just put together a first aid kit that rivals the ones we had on the engines and aid cars. I’ve got full oxygen therapy with airways, non-rebreathers, cannulas, BVM, etc. I also got an AED since up at our place in Alaska help ain’t just a phone call away. I’ve got quick clot and everything needed for major trauma/bleeding and have ordered valves for a sucking chest wound and a complete extremity splint kit with C-collars. I’ve even got 2 bags of NS....sodium chloride and IV administration sets. I need to be able to deal with any emergency that my family or friends might face so as to get them stabilized before they get transported. My background will hopefully be able to help the locals should they need it.

Having the knowledge is extremely important but having the equipment to put the knowledge to use is integral to complete emergency field care.

Good luck!

My Granddaughter is a Wilderness EMT. They either go in on horseback, Coptor or a good long hike. She says any first aid training a person has can be extremely helpful keeping a person stable until help arrives. She says if you are in the backcountry by all means any training you have could save a life.

Wilderness 1st aid is largely applying the principles and practices of regular 1st aid in an environment where transferring the patient to a higher level of care is delayed and access to the best tools for treatment is absent.

There is an emphasis on improvised splinting and and immobilization techniques. Environmental emergency recognition and treatment ie. hypothermia, heat related conditions and altitude induced illness get a lot of attention w/ much attention paid to prevention and early diagnosis.

I consider thorough knowledge of 1st aid to be a basic skillset and one that is accessible w/ reasonable effort.

Re. the triangular bandage, in my 30+ year career in SAR and remote area medicine the value and versatility of the triangular bandage remains a constant.

Never pass an opportunity to gain knowledge including You Tube.


mike r

Very true. Any first aid knowledge is another tool in your toolbox. Understanding the injury and being able to use whatever is available can make all the difference. Having the knowledge and ability also lends to a better self confidence when help is a long way off.

I had my 11 year old daughter take an 8 hour CPR/AED and general first aid course at the local fire station. She and her girlfriend want to babysit and I’m fine with that but I REQUIRED her to be red cross certified before allowing her to babysit. I explained that if she’s going to be responsible for someone else younger than her that it’s her responsibility to that child to be able to clear an airway or stop bleeding. Her basic first aid certification is merely a foundation upon which she’ll build on over her lifetime. She really enjoyed it and wants to take her EMT class when she gets older.

As a straight A student and her desire to go to medical school someday I figured there’s no better time than the present to gain real life knowledge.

LVMike is correct in that a triangular bandage is a simple and often used piece of equipment.

I put together my trauma kit years ago that is set up primarily for gunshot wounds, cuts, and broken bones. Clot packs were added and syringes to go with the Lidocaine and sutures...Yeah, Bitches! You go down on my hunt and Doc Beaver is gonna Lidocaine your into the Stone Age before I start closing wounds...If you have a cool doctor, ask him or her for a vial or two of Lidocaine... Way better than a long pull on some JD Old #7

I have not taken the wilderness first aid class, but I would be it would be valuable information.


The thing about "advanced" classes is that some of the information is fun and exciting, but the basics is what actually save lives.

Airway, bleeding, circulation.


A couple things......if your victim has bled through several 4x4's.....you have not controlled the bleeding.

Dont worry about removing a dressing to control the bleeding. If the would is still bleeding, there is no clot to disturb,

A commercial tourniquet is your friend. A belt and a stick is not.

I think I have about everything in my kit including sutures, clot packs , etc. I could use.I have about everything I need except to do brain surgery.I think some of the guys I hunt with,I could probably even do that without harming them. I do need to re-certify of CPR.

There are two basic types of rescuers- those who are responding to an emergency with the equipment needed and the poor soul who happens to be standing there with nothing in their hands that God didn't give them when the emergency gets tossed in their lap.

Having thousands of dollars worth of equipment is nice but it is pretty impractical to lug around in a real wilderness setting. I don't see anyone adding a defibrillator, IV bags and equipment, an airway kit, splints, or anything more than various bandages, some moleskin, ASAIDs, and a couple other basics to their pack on a hike into the wilds. Our first aid kit fit into a 30 caliber ammo box and that made do for canoe trips ranging from 2 weeks up 45 days. The only advanced tool we had was a satellite phone which was used once to notify the pick up plane we could not make the rendezvous point due to weather.

We always stressed thinking before acting as that eliminates a lot of need for emergency service. That help besides those on the trip was at best a day away and that no one was going to do CPR for hours helped convince the kids the seriousness of the situation. If the worst does happen, the results tend to be much less severe too. Impressing this upon teenage males resulted in only one accident in 13 trips and that was a cut needing a couple butterfly bandages to close.

A basic first aid course is about all one really needs to know. The various tools themselves aren't as important than knowing why and how they work. Knowing that one can make do with other items in their place. In extreme situations, realizing a significant injury or medical problem may just be fatal can go a long way towards preventing it for a responsible person.

I have taken the Wilderness First Aid course twice. The first time was before I led a group of Scouts to Philmont for a 10 day back pack trek. The instructor was a Scout Leader that was also a trauma surgeon and E.R. doctor. It was probably the best training that I have ever taken. The second time was through a local community college and the instructor was a volunteer firefighter and all that he did was read out of the book, maybe the worst training that aI have ever taken.
Find a good instructor and it is time and money well spent!

If you don't have the time or the resources to devote to a wilderness first aid course at least get a copy of "Wilderness Medicine" by William. Forgey, M.D. pub by Falcon. Make sure sure you get the latest edition (2017) because Dr. Forgey continually updates with regard to first aid kit contents and latest medical practices. His first aid kit recommendations are especially valuable because his recommendations are heavily weighted in terms of multiple use.

What I take in my backpack is a lot different than what stays at base camp. The O2, AED, splint, etc are for my cabin, aka base camp. When your base camp is remote and help is a long way off I’d rather have too much than not enough. I’m not advocating hauling an AED, IV, an O2 bottles up the side of the mountain but having the necessary tools for my family and friends at the cabin is peace of mind. Each dry box has specific supplies and is labeled, when I am heading up into the mountains I can grab a dry box or 2 out of the bigger Pelican case and have all the basics to deal with cuts, breaks, etc.

Air splints don’t take up much room nor do they weigh much. 😉

I've taken NOLS Wilderness first aid 2 day with my kids. Worth every penny, theyve actually used the skills they learned at home and on a 2 week backpacking trip. We're palnning on taking the 2 week course next summer. The course was local, covered stuff I didnt kow and changed the way I pack a day first aid kit vs the one I have in the car vs what I have at home. You can read a book, but the scenarios they put you through are a real kick. Absolutely reccomend the training.

The aid kit in my pack allows me to control external bleeding, treat allergic reactions, alleviate pain and improvise splints and immobilization devices and maintain an airway. It weighs 6 ounces. I also carry enough stuff to maintain body temp stability for my wife and I appropriate for our environment. This weighs from 2-5 lbs.
Whatever it takes to maintain hydration is the biggest variable.


mike r

I too have taken the 2 day course through NOLS, it was afew years back and I am looking to refresh this year. My sons were required to take it as part of a summer camp they worked for. IMO well worth the time invested.

Tourniquet I may add...Good idea!

saying the less you know is the best, is opposite anything I've ever felt. FWIW. But basic is better than none.

As to long CPR, I assume you know how effective CPR generally is. That said my friend and his 2 partners did CPR on a client until Coast Guard arrived with a helo on a remote bear hunt, over 3 hours of CPR. It did not work but IIRC the longest run on CPR with an ending save was appx 3 hours also.

Prevention is best, but the more you know to work with if the SHTF the better off you are. IMHO. Simply telling the kids about the seriousness of the trip doesn't help when you fall over MI.

Fx it

When I retired with 30 years of service for the state at 52, I was looking for what I wanted to do as my next "career/part-time" employment. I heard about a local university planning on beginning an "Outdoor Adventure" program on campus for students. As the name implies, the program centered on leading students on a wide variety of outdoor adventures. Already having a strong safety background and an avid "outdoorsman" I figured it could be the ideal new "career". The only requirement I lacked was certification as a "Wildness First Responder, or Wilderness EMT". I checked into schools and was told that SOLO in New Hampshire was considered the place to go at the time. I spent 2 weeks at SOLO and easily got my certification. It was really all just review for me based on my background and I was easily the oldest student in the class. Most were younger "20 somethings" just starting out. In the end the university never ended up starting the program that year and I settled into a comfortable retirement with just some occasional radiation and biosafety consulting on the side.

The highlight of the class is the final night exercise, a search and rescue mission for "missing" hikers in the foothills of the White Mountains where SOLO is located. Of course, the hikers would be badly injured when you find them. Knowing my previous experiences, the instructers asked me to take a "back" role and let the youngsters run the show. I acted as just a regular grunt on the "safety" team. Without going into the whole story here, I tried to just hang back and let the other folks make the decisions and just do my specified role. That became harder and harder to do as the situation progressed and I felt the youngsters were making bad decisions. I tried several times to suggest alternative decisions and was turned down. Ultimately, I felt compelled at one point to break from the chain of command and go rogue. I convinced one other person to do a buddy system sweep down a somewhat treacherous slope where all the evidence we were being supplied with suggested where our second victim was. Others saw this same evidence but either didn't get it or were too "scared" to go down the dead-fall laden slope in the dark. Needless to say about 75' down the slope where my intuition led me I found our second victim (I'm a strong INTJ type). Obviously, I had to endure the criticism of breaking ranks and chain of command, but no one could deny that I found the victim. Given the simulated injuries and the cold October weather the victim would have definitely "died" if I had not found them.

All in all it was a great experience, just remember to skate in your lane, follow your superiors, and don't go rogue. Something I've had trouble with my whole life.

Hmmm....Brain said breathing, fingers said bleeding.

I suffer from dysphlangia often also.

Never said less knowledge was more, merely stated that all one really needs is a basic knowledge of first aid plus the understanding of the whys of what they are doing and how it affects the patient. More knowledge is nice but not truly necessary. The second worse person to have on a medical scene is a doctor as very few have any idea how to work in a less than ideal setting with all the help and doodads at their disposal. Worst is a nurse.

Knowing why one does some things and how it affects the outcome coupled with a little ingenuity allows one to use available items as makeshift aids. That can be particularly helpful when in an actual wilderness setting were space and weight limitations govern what you bring. Asit can take days to get to a point to summon help let alone have it arrive knowing how to adapt and overcome is an important part of being prepared.

I am very familiar with CPR survival rates- when it happens in a hospital around 40% are rescusitated with 10% to 15% being discharged with deficits ranging from none to comas. So, at best 85% of patients having a cardiac arrest in a hospital with all the resources available still die.it isn't the movies by any stretch.

On the street the results are even worse. The number that seemed pretty constant at 8% ending up with a rhythm at the hospital with a very small percentage being discharged. And those stats seemed to be mostly urban areas as they had enough incidents to use as a study. From these many studies, current (as of my retirement last month) procedure is 45 minutes of CPR and ACLS support on the scene and then evaluate for a workable rhythm. If none, and that is more often than not, the patient is called at the scene.

I am well aware of th effectiveness of CPR, I have been doing it for 35 years total with 33 years as a career Firefighter/EMT in an urban area and another 23 years as a volunteer FF/EMT or EMS in suburban and rural areas. Manual CPR is adequate until the rescuer begins to tire, then the efficiency drops off fast. About 2 minutes of pumping on the chest is all the typical person can do before efficiency falls off. Three rotations and the rescuer should be cycled out of the rotations. Like most departments, we did not have the luxury of unlimited manpower so rescuers had to spend a lot more time on the rotation. When we were picked to test and evaluate the Lucas CPR device it was a Godsend. Circulation was greatly improved, enough that the patient's eyes would open. That was freaky the first couple of times as it had not been reported yet. I was also a part of the research on the plunger CPR device. I have had 4 different brands in my hands over the years. They may provide better circulation and oxygen transfer but it is even more tiring than standard CPR. The various trials we were part of did not seem to show much improvement in outcomes over plain old hands.

If we are thinking the same call, the longest use of CPR that resulted in a save was on a hypothermic patient. The cold can delay the effects of lack of oxygen, one reason ice packs placed on the neck, in the arm pits, and in the groin are standard procedure when doing CPR. The longest I personally know of is about 90 minutes before a viable rhythm occurred. And he walked out of the hospital with about 80% of his faculties. He has been the subject of several studies due to the rarity of the result.

Impressing on the kids how important it is to consider consequences and how to recognize problems before acting sure beats not doing so. Practicing what I preach helps to enforce those admonitions as well as lessen the likelihood of falling down a cliff. Another part of preparation is not being the only chaperone or knowledgable person, there was always at least one other with some training or knowledge to lead whether it was an injury, reading maps, setting up camp, or whatever.

Didn't mean to start a pi$$ing contest but there is a difference between what is needed and what may be desired. When in a wilderness, specific equipment will be unavailable and it then boils down to knowing what basic care is needed coupled with the ingenuity to adapt available items to the purpose as needed. After all, one won't be lugging a fully equipped ambulance along with a couple of medics over hill and dale.

sounds like you have a handle on it, but it sure sounded like you only need X training.

You've got a few more CPR and years as EMT under your belt than I do, though I did pass my initial EMT at 17 but they would not certify at that age, that was many years ago.

But I hate seeing a post here that sounds like just get a first aid course and don't worry about the wilderness.

Thanks for the extra comments, makes things more clear to me, which should make it more clear to others too.

Edit to ad, a local first aid course ain't covering very much. Even the "advanced" ones don't cover just all that much really. Could be the fault of the teacher though. Though I'd hope that all Red Cross followed the same material.

I don't pay attention when I should often. LOL . But I believe for some reason our EMS has changed from ABC to ACB.

The only course I have found worth a fugk is a modern day IFAK.

Wilderness first aid? CPR?

Take from an old time paramedic, who has done CPR on at least 400 patients, CPR is virtually worthless. Never works on a trauma patient.
We medics called CPR "The greatest hoax ever foisted off on the US public." The Red Cross has gone nuts teaching this crap across the continent, I guess the corrupt Red Cross makes a lot of money off of it.

So for wilderness training, forget CPR. As to the other training, press ahead, but I wouldn't put much faith in CPR, mostly, it is desecration of a corpse.

I just finished this class up today. Its worth it IMO.

Posting this link to SOLO if anyone is interested. They now have courses throughout the US although the main site is in Conway, NH. The picture of the guy laying in the woods with the head injury reminds me of the terrain where I found our second victim at night. He had a fake bone from a bad fracture sticking out of his leg, was scantly dressed in almost freezing temps, with a nasty fake head injury. He was also sort of wedged between stuff where he "fell" adding to the issues. Fun stuff to train for!

https://www.soloschools.com/

Agreed unless electricity is rapidly available. I still do precardial thumps but CPR is only good if you can shock. As you guys well know, CPR isn’t going to get a rhythm started although I’ve heard of PC thumps working . 😉

I don’t recall a single trauma CPR that was ever a save, there may have been but I’ve done a lot through the years and I think I’d remember that kind of save.

I know of only one save from traumatic cardiac arrest- the guy was featured on an episode of "Unsolved Mysteries" hosted by Robert Stack. I wish I could remember his name but he spoke in 1988 and 1989 at the Hunter Ed course I was helping teach.

He shot himself while out deer hunting and took a 30/30 bullet through the thigh. His hunting partners happened to be EMTs and began basic first aid and eventually CPR. He was on life support but refused to die when the plug was pulled. He has severe perpetual pain in his leg, slurred speech and poor long term memory but he was alive and breathing.

I recall two other trauma patients we got a pulse back but both went down stairs from the stab room. That was way back when we still used MAST trousers and the patients just had to bleed out a bit longer before dying.

As mentioned, CPR is pretty much a losing proposition. I've been involved in a lot of studies involving various equipment and the ultimate outcomes have not changed. Some few patients may be getting closer to being viable upon arriving at hospital but it is still a reach. The station I worked out of for much of my career had a response time average of a little over two minutes from time of page to arrival on the scene. Add in one minute+/- for dispatch to answer and tone out the call, another minute +/- to access, assess, and move the patient to a workable space and you are at 5 minute mark much of the time. Not much time to spare if all goes well.

It is also a racket for Red Cross. A refresher needs to be done every two years and something always changes in that time necessitating new books, materials, and continuing training. At a cost naturally.

A "basic first aid" class through community services is a 24 hour class. It mirrors the Dept of Transportation First Responder course that was offered back when I started. I don't think it is offered anymore as it required a refresher just like EMT. The first aid courses offered for babysitters seems similar to the Red Cross first aid course and is a little longer and more modern than what was taught for the Boy Scout merit badge.

as Woodmaster mentioned.....

When I was on Search and Rescue they offered a course for the weekend on Wilderness First Aid...
The instructor was one of our local Cop/EMT guys.. we only had to pay for the reading materials..

As I looked thru it tho, a lot of it looked real familiar.. after going thru the book, I told the instructor
that most of the material was straight out of 3 different Boy Scout Merit Badge books.. which cost $3.50
a piece.... he kinda laughed it off, until I showed him on the last page where they acknowledged the
Boy Scouts for their 'extensive' help in the information in the book...

The second day of the class, I brought him in copies of all three merit badge books...

during the break he was looking them over, and it was funny to hear him in the break room and every
few minutes him muttering "Son of a B..." over and over...after wards he asked me where could he
pick up copies of the merit badge books...

The Red Cross books and course were pretty much right out of the $3.50 Merit badge books..
so if you desire to have the info and it written at a 5th grade reading level that makes it easy to understand try a
BSA Wilderness First Aid and Wilderness Survival Merit Badge book...

The folks with hemoragic stroke don't fare too well either, usually.

We still drives em to da hospital!

My wife and I took to 16 hour course a couple years ago. Well worth the time and money, IMHO.

Depending upon your circumstances, you may have to spend some time without rescue. Knowledge of the local flora can be a lifesaver. Many plants have medical uses.
https://altnature.com/gallery/index.html

Even honey can be used as a temporary bandage dressing, as it is naturally antibacterial, and can prevent infection.

(As always, do your own research. Never take any medical advice online, without independent confirmation)

Took a 16 hr course just a month ago. Was pretty basic. Lots of CPR instruction. Was good for the basics ,as has been stated. I am out 2 hrs from nearest hospital in the event of an injury. I will be up grading my kit and will get an agreement from my guests they will do extra excersis to get ready.
My Ins co wanted a certified employee on the treks. I enjoyed the course and met some great people.

Guess I'm living dangerously..... A dozen bandaids, some Neosporine+pain, some vet -wrap, an Ace-bandage, Tylenol..... Back in the day, also med for bee-sting for the oldest boy, who was allergic. Used it at least twice.

I know how to use them all, plus the Heimlich and basic CPR.

Beyond that, someone is in trouble!