Reading the thread on the fake media and watching these trump rallies, and listening to Rush explain things for the "low information voters," as well as all the nonsensical TV shows that pollute the cable and airwaves, it got me to thinking about intelligence levels of the common American people. I mean, how can so many people get duped into falling for political correctness, speech police, Hollywood stars, race baiting poverty pimps, the N-word taboo, "that's racist" . . . and myriad of other follies. How many of you all consider yourselves on a higher intelligence level than the masses you see out there everyday?

I dont think intelligence has anything to do with it.

Yes.

A circle has 360 degrees. I'd be willing to bet one could fill up every degree of that circle with answers that take a different tack, and have a bunch more left over.

I don't know how old the OP is. I'll be 67 this year. I went to a private Baptist school in Kindergarten and 1st through 3rd grade. By the time I was in the 4th grade my mom had 6 kids. She had a degree from Rice Institute but stayed at home. My parents stayed married 63 years till my dad passed. My mom at 92 is still with us and us 6 kids plus 18 grandkids and now 25 great-grandkids still enjoy her company regularly.

It amazing. I went to public school at a time when one still got an education rather than an indoctrination. In many places high school is just temporary custody before its off to prison. There was not a significant population of "feral" individuals.

Johnsons' Great Society and the civil rights act of 1964 and 55 years of the decimation of the black family had not yet occurred.

America was not balkanized and to a degree we had a national identity. At this time politician's had not yet decided "if you don't like the population you have, change it" and had yet to import millions of un-documented democrats that are un-educated and un-skilled.

Viet Nam and the social unrest of the 60's had not yet happened.

and that's just a few "tacks" . Don't even consider the different intellegence quotient measurements of different ethnic groups.

I don't know if the OP has ever heard of a guy named Maslow. Most folks I have encountered as a landlord are between lever 1 and 2. They are under educated and under-employeed. Basically just get by day to day.


One could fill books.

ya!

GWB

The CDC/Used condom report spells it out pretty clearly as to what WE are up against in the low-info category.
They are voting & breeding.

Define intelligence

here is one definition

http://open.lib.umn.edu/intropsyc/chapter/9-1-defining-and-measuring-intelligence/


and some takeaways from that.......



Intelligence is the ability to think, to learn from experience, to solve problems, and to adapt to new situations. Intelligence is important because it has an impact on many human behaviors.
Psychologists believe that there is a construct that accounts for the overall differences in intelligence among people, known as general intelligence (g).
There is also evidence for specific intelligences (s), measures of specific skills in narrow domains, including creativity and practical intelligence.
The intelligence quotient (IQ) is a measure of intelligence that is adjusted for age. The Wechsler Adult lntelligence Scale (WAIS) is the most widely used IQ test for adults.
Brain volume, speed of neural transmission, and working memory capacity are related to IQ.
Between 40% and 80% of the variability in IQ is due to genetics, meaning that overall genetics plays a bigger role than does environment in creating IQ differences among individuals.
Intelligence is improved by education and may be hindered by environmental factors such as poverty.
Emotional intelligence refers to the ability to identify, assess, manage, and control one’s emotions. People who are better able to regulate their behaviors and emotions are also more successful in their personal and social encounters.


ya!

GWB

I agree. You said a lot in a pretty short narrative.

It was a rhetorical question

But hence, yes I am.

Bein' dumb enough to answer this thread tells you something about my smarts level. There are different kinds of intelligence, but there are some slow ones around.

Half the population has a below average IQ.

Yes

I think you are correct, I believe it has more to do with common sense and the ability to think for yourself.

Well played!

Lets not be "Mean"

https://www.mathsisfun.com/definitions/mean.html

ya!

GWB

With few exceptions, everyone on this forum is probably of above average intelligence.

I mentioned this before: we tend to associate with those who are within a couple percentage points of IQ. Those who are far above us or below us don't exist in our personal universes. Those who are way below our IQ levels see this forum and it's incomprehensible. They don't even lurk, let alone post.

There are those on this forum that profess to have low IQ's. The mere fact that they post says otherwise.

Contrary to what a lot of left wing dullards would tell you, guns, ammo, reloading, and explosives are very attractive to intelligent people. We like making things go boom.

Back when I was the proprietor of a coffee house, I used to run this "scene" on Friday nights. It was there I began meeting folks with a bend towards firearms, etc. In the conversation pit at midnight everyone there was certified to be in the top 2% of standard IQ tests and higher, and a typical group would contain:

1) A marine armorer who owned his own gun store and ammunition mfg business
2) A retired gun editor, a founding member of the Ohio Ruger Collectors, and an officer in the Ohio Gun Collectors
3) A female semi-retired Israeli Colonel of the paratroopers who masqueraded as a suburban housewife.
4) A physicist who'd worked on the Manhattan Project
5) A veteran of The Bulge-- worked a water-cooled .30.
6) A guy with a degree in Pyrotechnic Engineering from Purdue, working as head engineer for a TV station
7) A guy who'd blown up a police car as a kid with a homemade pipe bomb just for bragging rights
8) The only amateur member of the Ohio Pyrotechnics guild
9) . . . and a goofball insurance salesman who'd once been arrested for carrying homemade pipe bombs in his car for purely recreational purposes.

. . . and I was the baby of the bunch who came into the group having reached the age of 23 without having fired a 22. Believe it or not this group was not about guns or right-wing politics or blowing up the world. It was just a bunch of bright people that were blowing off steam from the week-- a lot like what we do here.

It seems to me that most people who identify themselves as "democrats" are some of the dumbest people I have ever met.

One of my common sayings is: "Welcome To The Great Society"...... After about five decades of the dumbing down of America and all our wonderful social programs and our disgraceful public schools, anyone with any sort of smarts could see this coming. Lyndon B. Johnson was one of the pioneers of this crap and now it's beginning to come to fruition.

Your intelligence is measured by those around you; if you spend your days with idiots you seal your own fate.

I think a lot of us are just older than the ones making the noise. I remember when I was just as dumb,as far as believing what the news told me. I think I'm old enough now to know that all the news I heard growing up was just as much a narrative of what those in power wanted me to believe, as it is now.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^


THIS

I’d love to live a life of blissful ignorance.

I got a 50/50 shot at it.

People don't like to be wrong. Particularly intelligent people. Many lieberals have impressive jobs and make lots of money. They are intelligent, but they are also stubborn, and will not admit they are wrong about things like politics, but of course, they are lethally wrong about politics. What they insist on believing and refuse to see the ugly truth of, will get lots and lots of people killed and possibly turn the entire world upside down.

I don't think of myself as overly intelligent, my performance in life, and the crap I have done confirm my thoughts.
I am around people who struggle to understand concepts that seem simple to me.
But, people have different talents, and I sure have never mastered anything.

Co-workers have told me I don't belong there (should be doing something "more") and that I talk about things that they don't understand.
That's because my life isn't sports and my last drunk.


But then, I have sat through many meetings where information was given to a large group.
When the question period srarts, I want to pull out my hair and start screaming. Right then? Yep! Damn straight skippy! Smarter than many, if not most.

I 'm not a genius but I'm way ahead of those that have won the Darwin Award or those that voted for Hillary!!

I don't know about that, but at 57, I'd say I have a good balance of intelligence, experience, and common sense.

I don’t know about being smarter than most people, but I’ve always considered myself smarter than Steelhead.

Everything i know; i learned from mary kay latourneau.

Yes - and better looking.

I quit watching TV about 20 years ago. At that time I think the Meme was "Total Vacuum.


ya!

GWB

I was too dumb to learn guns bad, hunting bad.

I failed on learning that open borders and muzzie immigration is good for the US.

I couldnt flip fom "United we stand" to "Our strenght lies in our diversity".

Ask Nordman, Im a "LOOSER".

If intelligence has anything to do with happiness, just remember, retards are always smiling

According to my ACT scores, I was more knowledgeable than 99% of those taking college placement exams in 1974 in all subjects with the exception of English Language.

I might hit the 25'th percentile of folks on this board.

Yes, I would say the contributers to this forum stand head and shoulders above the general population in regards to average intelligence. With a few notable exceptions. (liberal trolls)

At least, most here can write a coherent sentence. In my workforce, that ability is limited to less than 10 percent.

Special Needs People...Special Needs! How many times do you have to be reminded of this change in the social name tagging of those who are gifted...Damn, you’re such a retarded idiot, yet a smiling one. Grin 😁😎

It's not bad.

One issue that occurs in any population, but is especially strong on the campfire is the 'Downing Effect':

One of the main effects of illusory superiority in IQ is the "Downing effect". This describes the tendency of people with a below-average IQ to overestimate their IQ, and of people with an above-average IQ to underestimate their IQ. This tendency was first observed by C. L. Downing, who conducted the first cross-cultural studies on perceived intelligence. His studies also showed that the ability to accurately estimate other people's IQs was proportional to one's own IQ (i.e., the lower the IQ, the less capable of accurately appraising other people's IQs). People with high IQs are better overall at appraising other people's IQs, but when asked about the IQs of people with similar IQs as themselves, they are likely to rate them as having higher IQs.

The disparity between actual IQ and perceived IQ has also been noted between genders by British psychologist Adrian Furnham, in whose work there was a suggestion that, on average, men are more likely to overestimate their intelligence by 5 points, while women are more likely to underestimate their IQ by a similar margin



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illusory_superiority

I've often thought to myself, in a way, intellegence is a curse.



7 surprising downsides of being extremely intelligent
Shana Lebowitz
Aug. 24, 2015, 4:45 PM

You might assume that having a ridiculously high IQ would come with a bunch of privileges.

For example, you wouldn't have to study as hard for tests. You'd read about complicated concepts and instantly understand them. You'd be able to take on challenging but exciting jobs like rocket science.

All that may be true, but there are also significant disadvantages to being highly intelligent. To find out what's so bad about being a near-genius, we checked out the Quora thread, " When does intelligence become a curse? " and picked out the most insightful answers.

Read on and find out what really bugs super-smart people.

1. You often think instead of feel.

Quora user Marcus Geduld says he generally understands his emotions really well and can tell other people about them — but he never feels the relief of expressing them.

"This is a common problem for smart people, especially ones who are highly verbal. They use words as a smoke screen, and it's all the more effective when their words are true. Less articulate people tend to vent through physicality. They yell, punch, kick, run, scream, sob, dance, jump for joy... I explain . And when I'm done explaining, everything I've explained is still stuck inside me, only now it has a label on it."


2. You might not learn the value of hard work.

A number of Quora users mentioned that intelligent people feel like they can get by with less effort than other people. But a high IQ doesn't always lead directly to success, and highly intelligent people may never develop the perseverance required to succeed.

According to Kent Fung , "Intelligence becomes a problem when those who have it discover early in life that they don't need to work as hard to keep up, and thus never develop a good strong work ethic."

When you're highly intelligent, people assume you'll ace tests and job interviews and even solve relationship problems.


3. People frequently expect you to be a top performer.

"You are automatically expected to be the best, no matter what," writes Roshna Nazir. "You have nobody to talk to about your weaknesses and insecurities."

Another unfortunate consequence of these unrealistic expectations? You're panicked about what would happen if you didn't perform up to snuff.

"This makes you so cautious about your failure that you cannot sometimes afford to take risks just fearing that what would happen if you lose," writes Saurabh Mehta.
woman counter thinkingIntelligent people tend to overthink things.Flickr/Giuseppe Milo


4. People may get annoyed that you keep correcting them in casual conversation.

When you know that someone's just said something completely inaccurate, it's hard to stifle the urge to clarify.

But you've got to be extremely sensitive to the fact that other people may be embarrassed and offended by your actions — or risk losing some friends.

Being intelligent is a bummer, says Raxit Karramreddy, "when you correct people each and every time to a point that they stop hanging around with you or stop talking with you."


5. You tend to overthink things.

A common theme in this Quora thread was the pitfalls of spending too much time contemplating and analyzing.

For one thing, you may get maudlin when you try to find the existential significance of every concept and experience. "You realize how moribund everything is and that nothing really means anything. You search for answers and it drives you crazy," writes Akash Ladha.

From a more practical standpoint, you may find it impossible to make a choice. Writes Tirthankar Chakraborty: "An understanding of the possible ramifications of your decisions, especially the tendency to over-analyze those consequences, makes it so that the decision is never taken."


6. People often believe you're a braggart.

Sometimes people assume that when you're genuinely excited to share something you've learned, you're really just flaunting your knowledge.

It's frustrating, says Bill Vanyo, "when people say things like, 'He thinks he's so smart,' or, 'He thinks he knows everything,' when you were only trying to be helpful, and weren't 'showing off.'"


7. You understand how much you don't know.

Being super-intelligent often means appreciating the limits of your own cognition. Try as you might, you'll never be able to learn or understand everything.

Writes Mike Farkas: "Intelligence is a curse when … the more you know, the more you feel the less you know."

https://www.businessinsider.com/downsides-of-being-extremely-intelligent-2015-8

As a coda, My wife, kids and acquaintances get perturbed with me quite often, as I seem never to be able to answer a simple "yes/no" question with a "yes" or a "no".


ya!


GWB

According to my mother, before she passed, the answer is "YES"!

According to my wife of 46 years, who knows me the best, the answer is "NO"!!

I’ve observed.

86% of people consider themselves to be above average.



Jerry

GWB-
I find myself in agreement with virtually everything you have posted in this discussion.
Your posts seem very well reasoned and the references show you have researched the concept a bit.
Your last post here, on the downsides, is of particular interest as I find myself identifying with many of the issues, even though I know my intelligence is probably low normal.
My greatest fear is age will reduce that to a greater extent.
Best...
Joe

I've been around enough truly intelligent people to know that I'm not a part of their faction.

Many of us here on “the Fire” consider democrats and liberals as below average or even stupid.

My experience has been that a lot of Democrats are average to above average, very decent people with one or two big differences.

#1 A lifetime of working in a union job. A job that has provided a good living, and a good retirement .
The benefits of such employment lend creditability to the union itself, and the unions spend that creditability by pushing the Democrat party line.
Most of the “union democrats” I know sound and believe very much like conservatives, live their lives like conservative republicans.
When they complain about the I’ll of society, they sound just like MAGA Trump supporters.
Then they go vote, and decades of the union telling them that republicans are evil and democrats are good, they vote a straight Democrat ticket.

#2 Trusting the media.
Lots of these otherwise decent people get their news and information from CNN and MSNBC.
The “News” they listen too is slanted decidedly left, and once the news is over next up on their TV is Rachel Maddow or Chris Matthews. One sided left wing BS.
Listen to that for years with no competing voice from the right and you have an otherwise intelligent person who is a political idiot, who cried when Hillary lost.

My oldest daughter is one of those extremely bright people. She got a masters degree in medical illustration,..worked at it a few years, got bored with it,.....then taught herself programming,...no formal training at all. 3 years laters she's a full stack programmer and has opened a consulting business with 3 other principals.

The fact that she can learn as she does is impressive enough. But it seems that she can do it effortlessly. It's doesn't seem as if she has ever had to push to do anything. She just does it.

My youngest daughter is intelligent also, but not like her older sister. She graduated from Dentistry school a few years ago and now has a practice. But she had to push herself. Her edge is that she's ridiculously competitive and an extremely hard worker.

YES

Didn't read the entire thread,
I'm not sure what you describe is necessarily intelligence as much as much as it is following different information sources for long enough that you begin to sort out the BS. I think reaching a certain age where you become somewhat jaded also conditions one to take any of that info with a grain of salt.
I absolutely see your point about a huge proportion of people will swallow some of the most preposterous spin and fake news hook, line, and sinker.

That's the dumbest smart thing I've seen on the 'fire.

Geno

PS, it's don't, not dont.

PPS I think gdub posted some list about bein' smart. That correcting people in public crap is one of my downfalls.

I see you’re still angling for a Smartest Man on Fire Award...Geno, there’s always next year. I promise. 😁😎

A quick google of "must cognitive ability decline with age"

one of. the results, of the search.......... The first way to combat cognitive decline, I'm all about it!

A side note before I post the link.......

One of my buds who is about my age (67) sez his BGFF, is always commenting on his sexual prowess. He sez his response is "how can you make a judgement like that in just 60 seconds".

ya!

GWB


https://theconversation.com/how-to-reduce-the-risk-of-cognitive-decline-with-age-82464

"Are you more intelligent than most people?"


I learn extremely quickly, retain knowledge, have the facility to quickly work out most things or learn from the written word, and as a general rule tend to think of myself as quick and nimble of mind.

Then I go do or say something that just plain stuffs that illusion completely.



So I figure that I am just like the rest of you, just another arsehole on the edge of nowhere.

Wifey says I’m a legend in my own mind!!!

Lots of factors. I've read posts of posters on this site who think they're pretty damned smart, yet militate against their own interests.

Bandwagon effect is a common propaganda tool. We saw in used heavily int he '12 elections when Republicans who were really neocons 'cept they didn't know they were neocons -which ain't an excuse for supporting anti-Second Amendment candidates and the GOP- duped low density voters in to believing that Romney had a chance. Any halfwit knew no one was going to replace Obama with a perfect clone of him.

Americans have a perverted desire to be viewed as smart. The easiest people to con are the ones who know that they're too damned smart to con. There is nothing wrong with saying, "I don't know the answer." The wise figure out the answer.

Then we have the ten percent tipping point. It's true: tell a big lie often enough, and people will believe it. It's geometrically more ture for Americans. Americans are the easiest people on Earth to propagandize. All propagandists have to do is dupe 10% of Americans, and the rest of them will follow 'em right off of the precipice of knowledge to the enslavement abyss below.

My guess is that 90% of Americans believe they live in a democracy, our Founding Fathers created 3 equal branches of government, and that separation of church and state is in our constitution.

Americans are a very gullible people, which makes then extremely vulnerable to propaganda.

My guess is that 90% of poster here believe Fox News is conservative. It ain't. It's the Neocon News Network, and Bill O'Reilly was chief deputy neocon to HMFWIC Neocon Charles Krauthammer, who was 100% anti-America and anti-American.

This. But I do find the company of true intellectuals to be very stimulating.

I used to be...


Then as I aged, I smartened up.

I'd love to be as intelligent now as I thought I was at age 15 or so...

This is a fairly accurate summation of my experiences. On an added note to the OP: Many of the people you are classifying as unintelligent, are probably highly intelligent in the conventional sense (book smarts), but they are lacking in common sense.

When I took the GCT-ARI after high school, I scored in the 99 percentile and had my choice of all enlisted Navy rates. If I was REALLY smart, I probably would have chosen a field other than avionics. All I'm really sure of is that I enjoy the company of brilliant people. I consider hanging out with rocks and trees much better than hanging with the average sports fan.

It is truly disappointing to know that there are more below average than above......

[

Brain volume, speed of neural transmission, and working memory capacity are related to IQ.
Between 40% and 80% of the variability in IQ is due to genetics, meaning that overall genetics plays a bigger role than does environment in creating IQ differences among individuals.
Intelligence is improved by education and may be hindered by environmental factors such as poverty.
Emotional intelligence refers to the ability to identify, assess, manage, and control one’s emotions. People who are better able to regulate their behaviors and emotions are also more successful in their personal and social encounters.
[/quote]

I don't think education can expand intellectual capacity. It's either there or it isn't. Education (both empirical and emotional) can help you utilize your capacity to it's fullest, but you are pretty much limited by your hardware, to use a computer analogy. That said, I would rather associate with someone with a 2gig hard drive that is running full capacity than a 4gig that is running at 50 percent.

I would suggest that the brain is being "rewired" or developing at least through early primary school. Popular sources have said through high school.

I spent a number of years being responsible for the health and safety of people whose intellect and problem solving abilities earned them the status of National Assets. I found them to be, generally, very curious and very open to learning new things which made my job much easier than it was when working w/ normal folks. I was sometimes in their company for several months in austere environments and enjoyed their adaptability and generally active sense of humor.

I found over the years that uncertain conditions and high pressure situations are better handled by smarter people. I also learned to believe in the accuracy of the Dunning-Kruger effect.


mike r

What’s a condom?

There is pretty much a consensus in Neurology that the brain is more "elastic" in the first three years of development, when our capacity for learning language and social skills is at it's highest. This is when adverse environment can have the most damaging impact on development. That said, capacity still varies by individual based on genetics.

Mike,

I'm glad I don't have to be smart................................because there's the Internet!

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=Dunning-Kruger+effect.&t=ffsb&ia=web

Geno

PS wikipedia apparently knows EVERYTHING!

PPS if one believes that they are likely to buy items that may not be the bargain they seem...bridges, land in FL, statements about checks being in the mail

Sure, mostly genetic, but that can be nurtured to develop innate faculties and I think expand those faculties at least marginally. But that's way out of my line (why I merely "suggest")

I'm glad I don't have to be smart................................because there's the Internet! grin

Who do ya think yer foolin'. Else you would've said "innanet."
Is a handy hook for things on the edge of your mind.

Gee, thanks..............I guess.


I was hoping for Handsomest next year..............................Jim's a shoe in though.

Geno

PS, the reason Jim's a shoe in? .......He could be a cousin. We all's handsome devils I tells ya'

Voted for Trump. According to Hillary's count, that makes me smarter than most.

Oops, my mistake, I didn't notice that the auto correct had fixxed that.

Geno

PS "innanet"? That's what happened when I played tennis. The ball kept on goin' innanet, not ova da net.

Saw that coming.

Great.

Do you use a turn signal?

Unfortunately, there are people responsible for setting standards for schools that make a goal of having all students above the 50th percentile.

Yup. Don't use a turn lane as a merge lane though.

I recommend reading Malcolm Gladwell's book Outliars.

It's a flowing read; not stuffy, considering the topics he covers. He has a great section on IQ and how it relates to success and includes other factors that are as , or more important.

I know several really intelligent people that have ZERO common sense, and they voted for the Witch of Cappaqua. In so-called "educated people", common sense seems to be an uncommon virtue.

Education and innate intellect are two entirely different things.

Then you're a genius.

Intelligence and wisdom are not the same.
Intelligence without wisdom is worthless at best, and in most cases, it's dangerous.
Wisdom is far more valuable to mankind and always has been.

I'd rather have a cup full of wisdom then a train car full of intelligence.

Those that have neither are easy to spot by most other people.
Those that have both are easy to spot by most other people.

Those that have either intelligence alone or wisdom alone, are recognized only if the ones doing the spotting also have wisdom.

It seems that intelligence is not seen as a worthy trait by many people. I don't know if it is threatening to admit that there are people out there who possess more intelligence than others, but there always seems to be a need to denigrate those who have a higher level of intelligence.

True, but not because of that.

Its a raincoat you wear while showering.

Ringman has taught me a good Christian isn’t quick to condom others.

Experience has taught me that "brains" ain't near as important as "heart". Nothing worse than a bad smart guy or better than a good dummy.

The most intelligent person (by a wide margin) that I've ever personally known was a very close friend of mine. He was a math prodigy. During his mid 20's he totally derailed and never got back on track. He's functional and has made a basic, yet decent life for himself. But he's by far the worst case of wasted potential I've ever known.

I was a couple of years younger than him and was his closest friend when he started losing it. I didn't understand what was going on with him,....still don't, really. But I spent a lot of time trying to rationalize with him over the craziness that he started talking. But he was beyond being rational. It happened quick, too.

It was strange. He could still communicate with you,..and the way he would talk made it seem like he was making sense, But he wasn't. You could try to make him understand the errors in the way he was thinking about things, and he just thought that you didn't get it.

He finally came to the realization that something was wrong with him. But nobody was ever able to fix it. His way of dealing with it was to live a very simple life, doing very simple jobs and having very limited interactions with others.

37 years ago in grade 7 my English teacher taught us 26 starting words to prepositional phrases.......

Aboard, About, Above, Across, After, Against, Along, Among, Around, At, Before, Behind, Below, Beneath, Beside, Between, Beyond, But, By, Down, During, Except, For, From, In, Into!

I have a great memory but that doesn't necessarily make a person wise!



Trystan

I think if I was intelligent people would tell me I am. I get called an assshole often.

Assshole

Hey...has TJ Ribs closed in BR??

You stole my line ! ! ! ... This was my first thought when I read the title...

Intelligence goes out the window when there's a rattlesnake in your sleeping bag.

You ever whipped a mouse in your sleepin bag?

I think I was blessed with more common sense than academic prowess and would not want it the other way around. I have learned a lot more as I get older (61). One of the things that has served me well is learning to never pass up a good time to shut up.

“Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.” ― George Carlin

I know A LOT of stupid people with Masters degrees. Most of them can't change a flat tire, or couldn't survive a night alone in the wilderness. I have no use for them! -TomT

I think I am below average. I am embarrassed to say it. All my youth I have struggled in school except math. I graduated high school by the skin of my teeth. I most likely averaged a D all through high school. Am I stupid? I'm not sure. I am pretty sure I am even dyslectic, but only when it comes to numbers, not letters. I see them the way they are but write them down backwards. I can't for the life of me read a plan upside down. It has to be facing the direction I am looking at the project or I get confused and impatient. To make matters worse I ended up a carpenter but did ok only through determination cause my dad , also a carpenter told me I would never be a carpenter. Sometimes I think of him saying that and After 37 years of carpentry , he still isn't wrong. ( Snicker). One thing I can say is this, every single thing I do is very calculated. I used to literally keep track of every dime. Now days I dont bother unless it's a few dollars, then I get my cautous spending habits back. I am a very careful person. I am careful what I say, am always respectful even to rude people. I have never been in trouble to much of any degree and heve never been arrested. I always got out of trouble by being polite and respectful the few times I got caught. My friends always got in trouble and happened to be the days I had to do homework. God has kept me safe in many ways. I met a very fun young girl and we married 31 yrs ago. Neither divorced , or in financial trouble. The funny thing is I was reading the bible and read Solomon was praying for wisdom and God gave him plenty. So, I also prayed for wisdom. I didn't get the wisdom I wanted cause I had being rich on my mind. He did give me a different wisdom. The wife and I decided very early we will in no way raise our kids like we were raised. We have two very good kids. My 25 yr old daughter teaches in Cairo , Egypt , my son has a yr left in college. He is likely going to be a millionaire before 50 cause God gave him the ability to invest and is very good at it. Both kids are smarter than their parents and all four of us know it. What is intelligence? I'm not sure but it comes in many ways.

I spanked a monkey once, but no mice that I remember.

I consider myself extra average.
"People who think they know everything really annoy those of us who do".

Statistically speaking, 49.9% of the population is below average intelligence. That’s not a very high bar.

In my case add 10 years. I'd have to say yes as well. Got my bachelors and masters in 4 years including being a TA at the university. Started 2 different business and created dramatic growth. Demonstrably accomplished things that very few people have in fund raising. I enjoy the people on here that are intelligent enough to be conservative.

Very well said. My wife's niece niece is dyslexic yet a very well respected doctor. I know people that claim to be dumb that might have a learning disability that went undetected. What I have noticed is they seem to have a work around like yours. Calculating, deliberate, more focus. I screw things up sometimes because I gaze over stuff instead of taking more time. I think I take reading for granted sometimes.

Just heard this last night from a long-time Union Electrician.

I
Believe in
Easy
Work

Mark Twain wrote "When I was 14 I thought my old man was the dumbest thing that ever drew breath. Looking back on it some years later I realized just how far he had come."

People that can't think for themselves are the definition of stupid.

that makes a lot of sense to me.

there are 2 kinds intelligent, one is book smart people and 99 % of them can`t hardly tie there shoes,use a hammer or know how a shovel is used and as a lineman for 35 years I seen a few of these walking idiots. now there is working learned intelligent people some didn`t even finish high school some learned from the school of hard knocks this type of person much easier to work with and they understand better how to live a normal life, that`s why dad`s get smarter as we got older,Dad`s already had been there!

I had a little ray-ray on my field crew. Summer hire type deal as part of that Obama restoration crap Act or some jive. Kid was useless.
He used to dig with a shovel like he was on a pogo stick.

Got chased by a fuggin Lassie collie and jumped completely up onto the roof my jeep cherokee. Dented up my roof.

laffed so hard thought i was gonna puke up my Sonic slushie

It's a cop raincoat.

it depends upon our individual values, and understandings.

lot's of people get up, and go to work as an expectation.

other folks do not wish to work for others, need food.

then there are the independents. it's high theater.

how much freedom do we have to give up?

freedom & high standard of living are in contradiction?

When I was young I was going to bust open the world. I thought that through application and raw intellect I would rise to the top of the best and brightest and stand upon the shoulders of giants as an ubermensch. However, when I got there it was a pyrrhic victory. The rush to get to where I thought I wanted to be probably got in the way of where I could have gone. Yes, I was challenged and I fostered great intellectual growth but I found everybody there either pure evil and lacking in morals or just intellectually strong in one or two different fields. I thought about it for a long time. So what was real intelligence and what should be the focus of a journey to become intelligent and enlightened. My kung fu instructor at Harvard gave me some truly enlightened advice. Tom, every year I see hundreds of alumni coming from all stations of life. Some wealthy, some not so. The key to a happy life is to find balance between being too controlled and owned by your job and possessions and too poor. True intelligence finds balance and harmony as well as an edge. Thomas Montaigne gives us an example of where we need to go to be intelligent and to enjoy our experience of life. You want a life that can afford freedoms but does not eat you up. He pointed to a businessman who had just arrived for his 25th class reunion. He looks like he is 70 but he is 45 has had three wives, earned more than 100 million dollars and is living on borrowed time because of use and abuse on his heart. Thats not how you want to live.

My Freshman room mate won three Putman awards and could store 250 pages of mathematical proofs in his head. He would be completely worthless in the Bush. I will never forget watching 80 year old Nelson Greist resolder a circuit of one of his grandson's toys with a red hot wood ember. Nelson had never had one day of formal schooling but he was straight up a genius. In my life, I have seen many people who were terribly brilliant in one or two specific fields but it really is rare to find people who are bright in many different fields and can articulate their intelligence in a practical way. However, most of these rare people don't call attention to their abilities.

Hell yes! I’ve been on this web-site since -27-01 (member #164).....longer than most! But, to answer your question......Politically speaking....Yes! I was born in the Deep South, and originally signed to vote as a democrat (blue dog). I started following politics pretty closely, when Ronald Reagan was running against “peanut”! 3+ years of Jimmy Carter, was my “awakening”! I quickly saw, what the press and the Democrats, represented! memtb