Kill a grizzly with 124gr Speer Gold dots, I got 17 I could get off fairly fast and I believe I could get 50% of those into the dome. If not what bullet would I need? Asking the griz experts.

Can you do it while a Griz is coming at you from 30 yards away at 40 mph is the question.

They have been killed with a 22 one time by an old lady years ago

FMJ

I would carry the 147 grain fmj or hard cast if a 9 was all I had.

You don't have to be a grizzly expert to know that it's a matter of luck and how well placed your shots are. Better penetrating 9mm rounds would be a better bet, though.

Didn't Phil Shoemaker do that last year?

Hellofaman

With hot, hard cast, lead rounds.

World record, at that. Of course, it was about to eat her as she was at the creek washing clothes and her single-shot .22 was all she had. P

How fast can you run?

My mistake - 2 years ago

https://www.americanhunter.org/arti...men-from-raging-grizzly-with-9mm-pistol/

Well I would damn sure try, I wouldn’t sit there and watch.

Just be sure and file the hammer off, if it has one.

Elmer Keith recommended big bore rifles and to use them to take out the shoulders to stop a Griz charge.

In my opinion, it's possible to stop a griz charge with a 9mm about 1 out of 50,000 times.

The other 49,999 times the people attempting to do so will leave this world as a decomposing bear turd.

Phil used buffalo boar hardcast ammo.

You need to ask Phil Shoemaker.

Thought it was the front sight....😂

So a 9mm (.355”) at 1250 FPS is different than a 357 (.358”) at 1250 FPS , some of y’all underestimate the power of centerfire pistols and rifles.

Let's do an experiment - you go first.

Good point. Better do both!

I wouldn’t be scared for sure, I’d chose 17 rounds over 6 any day of the week.

I'd say Phil is the only one here that can say unequivocally that it will work. He used an S&W 3953 and 147 grain Buffalo Bore Hard casts. The only other one I know of was down on the Russian river, several years ago. That guy had the same strategy as you. Fling a pile of 9mm rounds at a juvenile bear. Bear ended up taking off and had to be hunted down and dispatched. Shots in the noggin may or may not be effective. Phil got the job done with 7 rounds but he was intimately familiar with parts of a grizzly. Plus he was close enough to ensure he would put the bullets in the exact and correct spots. Like anything else, you pay your money, you take your chances. Personally, I've spent lots of years around bears in Alaska and I got for having an edge with the rounds I'm using. My common carry was a 44 mag 305 grain Buffalo Bore Hard cast. I'm not big on the small bullet theory that is so popular these days. Small bullets puts the onus on the shooter to place those rounds expertly. Phil did it, If you think you can do the same, go for it. I prefer having the fire power edge on my side.

The question isn’t IF it would kill a Grizzly. The question is, will it die before it mauls you to death, eats you, and [bleep] you out?

My friend tried using his 9mm to dispatch a wounded Whitetail, instead of taking his .308 Win., as I suggested. I didn’t go (was cooking dinner at camp), but when he came back, he wasn’t happy, and said it took several headshots at close range before the Deer succumbed. Hold a 9mm parabellum cartridge next to a 30-30 Win. cartridge.

Phil says in the article that he usually carried a .44 magnum before this incident. I wonder what he carries now.

I think I'd carry one of those new Mossberg 12 gauge pump action "pistols," slung over my shoulder and loaded with slugs.

Y’all obviously haven’t seen how the gold dots penetrate and expand lately.

Here's what Elmer said about them. It sounds true.

Most Grizzlies are content to mind their own business, and unless wounded will usually do just that, but once their anger is aroused you have an adversary worthy of the best that is in you and one that will come with determination.

Firepower over accuracy is usually not a good policy.
But for grizzly, when you realize any handgun is seriously under powered,
a chambering with enough crap to get a bullet where it needs to go, and a bullet that will get there, is the goal.
Being as you don't have much poop, the ability to quickly put multiple rounds on target beats one or two more powerful,
but not more effective, rounds.

A 357 is what Phil packed for many years - right up 'til he gave it to his (then) 16 year old daughter.
More the bullet than the gun - and more the Indian than any armament!

I would definetly feel more comfortably with more rounds that I could control than any 6 cylinder 4” barrel hand cannon. I plan on maybe visiting Yellowstone next year and I’m not planning on becoming bear schitt.

Lately? Did they change the design? They’ve been around forever, old scheit. I’ll take an HST over a Gold dot any day. Neither for a bear.

I’ll go with what I know.

I used a 380 with Hornady hollow points to dispatch an elk I hit with a van. One shot behind the ear, done.
I don't want to try the grizzly vs 9mm trick. Phil Shoemaker, I am not. I'll take my 45 colt and 285gr cast bullets cruising along at about 1000fps. I can shoot it in a hurry if I need to.

Then why ask here?

It sure sounds like you have your mind all made up, and are just asking for some reinforcement. Good luck to you.

I want no fight with a bear of any persuasion. A fair fight least of all.

The story I read was she was picking berries and the griz was walking down the trail. Didn’t know she was there. She stuck the barrel of the .22 out from behind the bushes she was hiding in and shot him behind the ear.





P

Bring a slower friend along!

Use a knife!

Might I suggest a .25 ACP, since it's all about bullet construction?

Hell, why not an icepick? You don't have to worry about it jamming, and it'll penetrate like a sumbitch............

Because there plenty of keyboard cowboys here who’ll give you they’re best smartass answer.

Well, that wasn’t my best. I can probably arrange that...

I’ll probly stager the 147 gr hard cast and the 147 gr gold dots. That’ll do it. The Buffalo bore 147 are designed to penetrate 4-5 ft, gold dots around 14”.

Partsman;
Good evening to you sir, I hope all is well in your part of our world tonight.

Since were here in ether space and if there's no photo, then it didn't happen.....



I want to say it's a Cooey even.

All the best to you and yours this fall Partsman.

Dwayne

Nice kill! Never underestimate a 22 rimfire.

What would be the point of alternating between gold dots and cast bullets? I can think of no advantages to having every other bullet being one that’s designed for shallow penetration.

And coming from a guy whose killed a few grizzly bears and skinned a few more, I would probably choose a 9mm over some alternative choices. Those choices being my fingernails, a dull pocketknife, or a 25ACP. But when I fished and hunted in grizzly country if I chose to carry a handgun it was most often a 44. They are incredibly powerful animals and capable of soaking up a tremendous amount of lead if they decide they ain’t giving it up today.

Pictures in link


https://www.ammoland.com/2017/06/be...d-record-grizzly-and-more/#axzz5RbyJGqPp

Sometimes it takes a fatally wounded large bear a number of minutes before it comes to the realization it's supposed to lay down and die. During that period of time, you will be in a fight to survive. 14 inch 9mm hollow point wound channels just make big bears vengefully angry unless you luckily place one round in the nervous system. My advice is big hard cast bullets that penetrate deep and shatter bones. I think 44 mag with 300 grain or a bigger caliber handgun is a minimum. If opting for a shotgun, go with copper sabot slugs. The best choice is a large caliber rifle.

Big griz can be packing 14" or more of fat throughout their body prior to hibernation. That depth of fat will absorb most handgun hollow point rounds before they reach something vital.

Never overestimate it either....

TheKid, You don’t know much about ammo I see from your ignorance in your posts, why don’t you read the reviews and watch some videos on penetration tests before you post, check out the buffalo bore 147 gr description over at midway if you know what that is.

Thekid,

My “25ACP” post was pure sarcasm, sorry, I thought it was obvious. Next time I’ll use the sarcasm font. -TomT

I almost wish the fire had a like button
This is one of those posts that has some amusing comments

Hank

Oh don’t worry I didn’t take you seriously, was in fact agreeing with you.

But the real question is:

Was he carrying with a hot chamber?

Elmer Keith recommended big bore rifles for squirrel hunting.

I shot a feral pig in the side of the head at 5 - 6 feet with a 9mm 124 Gold Dot and it ricocheted off the skull. At the same distance, 45 ACP with 200 grain XTP penetrated deeply and made a hole the size of a golf ball.

SSSHHH, he doesn't want to hear stuff like that.............

Some people don't want to hear the truth, they want to hear that what they believe is the truth.

I smell BS, you must have shot it right down side the skull.

Damn right I know what I’ve experienced and tested, many different rounds and know what works.

Just reporting first hand results responsive to the question. I have had the opportunity to shoot a lot of pigs over the last several years, most with 175 SMK’s. About to go put some deer with feral pig sausage in the pan right now.

For your viewing pleasure, the weak sister 308 with 175 SMK’s. My young nephew provides the narration.

Just hunt witha big fat hunting buddy, then you will only have to out run him.

Here is what that looks like in real life......

I guess the old adage, "The proof is in the Pudding" could apply here, The end answer usually depends on who's "Pudding" winds up getting et by whom.

That bear had decided that those people needed elimination.

Was on a black bear hunt in Georgia and one of my pards shot a 400lb boar with a Nosler BT. It ran off into the swamps, so the guides fired up their hounds and went after it. Found it holed up in a burrow and shot it with a .45 ACP at 5 feet to finish it off. That damn bear took off so fast he couldn't pull the trigger a second time. It died from the initial wound shortly afterwards.

When I went to pick up my skull from the taxidermist, he asked about the hairline fracture on my buddies skull.

If you think a 45 is any better than the 9mm in this instance, be my guest, but after my experience with a black bear, I think I'll pass.

To the OP: If you are basing your decision to use 9mm bullets for Grizzlies off of the talents of Phil Shoemaker, carry a 9.3x62 to keep the szhit in your pants at a minimum, if you want a blow out try a handgun in a 44.

BTW, Phil Shoemaker is one of the few people when it comes to bears that merit the "Do as I say not as I do" adage!

Use the first 16 to piss the bear off, than save the last one for yourself as the bear is eating you alive...

LOL. Clever.

No,...he liked a 32-20 Colt single action for that.

You'd be much better off putting your life in the hands of a 44 Mag with 300-325 grain load in a Ruger single or double action sure fire revolver. $600-$800 is a not a lot of money to spend when your life is on the line. Using a 9mm pistol would be irresponsible in my opinion, but its your hide. Using a pistol a 10mm 210 grain bullet would be a minimum. Years back some guides and backpackers carried the L.A.R Grizzly pistol (now discontinued) in 45 Winchester shooting 230 grain FMJ at 1500 fps. I suppose today a pistol in 50 AE would somewhat suffice. The 9mm is a peashooter.

Don't go for the head shot. Classic rookie mistake. The skull is pointed, towards the nose, and the bullets will glance off. You need a chest shot. Good luck.

It’s easy to arose you buncha old codgers! I ain’t planning on going with a damn 9mm!

Elmer Keith speaks of shooting a Griz with a .35 Whelen. He didn't stop it until he had hit it 3 times and he used the third shot to break it down by taking out its shoulders.

At the impact of my 275-grain bullet the bear spun partly away from me. Immediately I fed him another bullet right between the shoulders, and he turned back toward me. Then, as he lurched forward, I shot him through both shoulders. The grizzly fell dead at my feet.

Too late Hammer, the fats in the fire now!

I see lots of advice from eastern tenderfeet who have never seen a grizzly or set foot in grizzly country. Too funny.

Carry on.

On my mothers' side of the family there is a guy that did just that. He stuck one hand/arm in the mouth and went to cutting, it was a California grizzly and I'm not sure how they compare in size. I saw a picture of him one time and his hand looked a little gnarled up.

For the OP.
I would use hardcast bullets like Shoemaker did if I was sticking with a 9mm.

I sure a 9mm will kill any bear in a world where everything goes just right and you have a bit of luck or Devine Intervention, but save the last bullet for yourself........it will be less painful than the next events if the bear is still moving.

4, point was about the 124 GD, which was his question. Pistols in general are weak sauce.

some years ago, i dispatched a pretty good size mule deer buck for a woman, that had shot it improperl.
one roundof 357sig was all it took.

it's kind of funny in a way. I had a up front and personal confrontation with a black bear. it ended peacefully on all sides. I had a hi cap 9mm with me which i knew would eventually kill mr bear. eventually is the key word when you are at 15 feel. That experience is what led me into big bore handguns and the marlin guide gun.

He was posting in the General Big Game forum before and after this event occurred. Link. He also posted on a number of threads in the handgun forum.

I think if one man could do it, certainly another could also. A lil ole lady with a single shot smashed the world record griz with a single 22lr, this is kinda like shooting a whitetail with a 223 type thing.

bingo!

Absolutely, I’m not gone just stand there and let the phugger eat me. He’d have lead all in his mouth, face and head area. I’d probly take my 45acp as a backup piece, just in case. I’d have 16 230gr gold dots in it.

Empirical evidence offered by an impeccable source, good enough for me. In any self defense situation utilizing a hand gun certain skills increase your chance of survival:

Smooth, fast presentation

Multiple Accurate shots to the kill zone done in a short period of time

Shoot until the problem is solved

I carry Phil's proven load in bear country and practice the fundamentals frequently. Draw a Glock 19 from my HPG kit bag and fire 6 rounds of BBore into 6" at 7 yards in < 3 seconds. I call it the Phil Drill.

There are no sure things, but I prefer preparation to speculation. I am headed to griz country on the 30th, my 3rd trip this year. YMMV


mike r

I imagine that penetration would be the most important factor, and that BB 9mm has proven itself in that department.

Would, Could, and Should have different facets.

Would it? Sure.

Could it? If you're lucky.

Should you? There's much better things to carry. Why not carry one?

What would Trystan do?

Would you rather have 6 shots or three times that many? .44 or 9mm?.....My personal choice would be a Glock 20. 10mm.

9mm with a 45 backup. Ok...

One in each hand!

Sounds like you have a lot of experience with Brown bears.

I think a handgun of any type is grossly inferior to about any type of major caliber centerfire rifle. I think it was Jeff Cooper who said something to the effect that a handgun is what you use to fight your way to your rifle. A model 94 Winchester in 30-30 is a superior defensive tool than the most exotic, most powerful handgun you care to mention.

Clint Smith said that, I believe.

No doubt about that.

http://www.leverguns.com/articles/paco/3030again.htm

He was huge...he terrorized the north west Idaho/Canada border country for twenty years. He was a cattle killer, as he grew older and slower he became a man killer...he ravaged and put fear into the hearts of those who lived in his roaming area for those two decades....he was shot over a dozen times with many of the heaviest black powder calibers of the times...but they never stopped him. Even to the point of charging several of the shooters and killing them....

Then in the fall of 1895 armed with a new high velocity rifle and caliber and lots of courage....a young 22 year old man that had grown up during this grizzly’s incredible reign of terror...hunted him down and killed him. John Horton out of Kalispel, hit him three times...twice at 75 yards to put him down, once in the head at point blank range, to make sure he stayed down. What was this fantastic new cartridge and rifle. A Winchester model 94 in 30-30...with 160 grain bullets at approx 1960 fps. And this is not an unusual story...a number of nasty bears that seemed impervious to black powder rounds met their match with the new ‘white powder’ rounds of the turn of the 19th/20th century.

The ole turty-turty will kill anything in the America’s including a griz, just hard to conceal it.

The Ranch Foreman in the TV Series Yellowstone used a 30/30 to kilt a Grizzly so that is all one needs.

Mostly true with a few exceptions.

Just in standard production handgun calibers, 454 Casull, 460 S&W Mag, and 500 S&W Mag will all beat it, and, with some loads, by quite a bit.

I may take my 460 S&W, it’s just so dam yum heavy.

Well a 30-30 WCF is okay, but it wouldn’t benefit you over a 360 gr Casull loading or a 480 Ruger or 475 linebaugh w/ 410 gr. HC in close quarters. Trouble is most can’t handle what it takes to accurately shoot them in a stressful situation. They do however have plenty of power to make a stop due to their ability to penetrate well beyond what a 30-30 will do.

Gonna guess if you can't, with a 9, then you can't with a 10 or a 45 or a 44 or one of the stupid big rounds either...

17 rounds would certainly give you something to keep your mind occupied while the bear charged and tore into you.

All of those super powerful handguns are fine. But it's a rare man that can bring one on target as quick and shoot it as accurately as they can a rifle.

Putting shots on target rapidly and accurately is a rifle's forte.

Few would argue that well placed rounds from rifle would be most effective. If the rifle is in hand and ready to fire by a well practiced shooter. Many hunters carry their rifle w/ an empty chamber and set it down or sling it during the course of a day in the mountains.

With my Marlin Guide Gun carried w/ a chambered round at low ready I can barely get off 2 accurate rounds of 430 gr ammo in 3 seconds due to the muzzle lift on recoil. From my HPG kit bag I can draw and accurately fire 6 rounds of 147 gr BBore ammo in less time. The difference is that my pistol is on my person at all times and will fire 18 times w/out a reload.

YMMV


mike r

So if you manage to get a round or two off and hit the beast there will be no apparent difference being hit by a 124 grain .355 dia. at 1,100 fps vs. a 410 grain HC .470 dia. at 1,300 fps. One may just slow him down a bit more affording the next shot. Only one mans opinion.

No doubt a properly loaded rifle is better. But you don't always have a properly loaded rifle in your hand. A properly loaded handgun is more likely to be on your person and can be used with one hand. And I'd just as soon carry a short barreled rifle as some of the huge magnum revolvers out there such as the 454's and 500's. I've seen enough incidents where people have used common handgun calibers such as 45, 40S&W, 10mm and even 9mm to successfully stop bear to feel comfortable with one. Assuming proper loads.

I've been using a G20 loaded with 200gr DoubleTap hardcast ammo at a chronographed 1300 fps from my gun when hiking and camping in bear country for years. Normally black bear in the 200-300lb range are common in areas where I live. But I chose to carry the Glock on 2 camping trips to Yellowstone and left the 44 mag at home. I slept just as well with the Glock as any other handgun and a rifle just wasn't practical in that situation.

There is a certain amount of luck involved to hit an area that will stop an attack. But penetration is the key. Those 10mm loads have proven to give penetration measured in FEET, not inches. And I figure the Glock gives me 16 chances to get lucky vs only 6 from a magnum revolver.

If forced to use a 9mm a lightweight 124 gr bullet designed to give 10-12" of penetration in humans wouldn't be my choice. But Shoemaker has proven that the 147 gr hardcast bullets give impressive penetration on even the big bear. After reading the article, and reading the comments he added when posting here I'd not hesitate to use the Buffalo Bore loads he used on local black bear. I know he killed a pretty big bear with the 9mm. And if a 9mm is all I had, I'd load it with that ammo and hope for the best. But I still feel better about the hotter 10mm loads as a minimum.

Can't argue with that.

Did you forget where you're at?

147 hard cast Buffalo Bore. They are what I buy my kids for their carry guns and also use in the 9 I have.

Where do your kids live?

Can’t fathom B.B. in an ordinary personal defense situation.

I consider myself an excellent skilled marksman with many weapons. All I would need would be one shot to connect with the 460 and bang lights out, shutdown the system game is over. I’ve owned many 44’s, and casuals over the years and have no issues shooting either. The 460 is not as bad as the freedom arms casull on recoil.

I think I'd be more of a spray and pray shooter if a griz was charging my ass.


19 rounds of 9mm.

FMJ followed by a hollow point. Repeat.


Shock and awe.....

LOL..

You can't miss fast enough to win..

Make one helluva racket!

NO HPs, Sammy. Please.

If it HAD to be a pistol round, I'd want this.

I"m gonna say if you get a round or two off of either, and they hit the CNS, then the results will be the same.

Like I said, if you can shoot the boomers well, go for it. There is ZERO doubt in my mind that the 10mms we carry are more than enough IF we hit CNS. If we don't, there will still be damage but to stop any animal you have to hit CNS.
I'm actually overly impressed with non bear rounds on deer from the 10mm. I"ve yet to see a deer make it out of sight, and none have gone more than 35 steps.

Now I'm not inclined to carry the 9, because I can handle the 10 and the wife can too. But the stuff bigger than a 44.... I can't deal with accurately repeatedly. The fact the 10 penetrates so well and has 16 rounds before reload, vs the 44 having 6... well my mind is made up.

That said, if the OP asked about a 9, I'm just going out on a limb here and thinking he or she may be smarter than most and KNOW what they can or can't handle and asked a question so related. I'd rather have the 9 with hard cast heavies than nothing at all. And to be honest I'd rather have the 9 than the 500 S/W as I'm 99% my first round out of the smith would be close to the bear but no more confident than that as much as that round hurts to shoot. Now if we are talking hunting, where I can take my time and aim and squeeze I've no issue using the 500. Though it still isn't going to be my favorite choice.

OK, Jose. No, I have no experience with the grizzly I am from Georgia.
But, I spent the summer of 1973 up in the wilderness of British Columbia, near Fort Nelson and Manson Creek. I was staying with outfitters, guys who guide hunters on big game hunts. They kill a lot of moose, mountain goats, and grizzly.
Americans cannot hunt in Canada without being in the presence of a paid guide, at least, they could not back then.

These guys go out with a goofball American hunter, he screws up the shot on the grizzly, then the guide has to kill the grizzly. Or, they shoot a big moose at sunset, and they have to go back to the camp, and they arrive the next morning with the pack horses to get the meat and the rack, and a grizzly has staked out the moose. And you better be ready to kill a charging grizzly or you will die. This is what these guys did for a living.
I was working with and living with two of these guides that summer and talked to the guys who worked for them who are also grizzly killers.

And they all told me the same thing. Never shoot a grizzly in the head for the reason I posted above.
Now, to y'all who don't hunt grizzly for a living this sounds wild, but every one of these men told me the same thing and most of them had done it. When a grizzly is charging, he is on all fours and does not present a good target. Hold your fire.

When he is ten feet away, he will stand up and walk in, and swat you in the head. A griz can kill a horse with one swat to the neck.
When he stands up, the chest is exposed and you fire into the chest.

All these hunts are set out on, via horse back and these guy's lives depend on having a good saddle rifle. Thus they use the lever action because the bolt on a bolt action just gets in your way. Most of these guys used the Marlin .30-30. Never saw a Winchester. They loved the Marlin because it was very reliable, and you could get off a quick second shot and third shot. I talked to two guys who got off 3 shots from the Marlin .30-30 on a standing, charging griz, killed the big bear on the spot. Knew a couple of these guys who used the Savage in .308

I never heard of an American who went griz hunting with a .30-30, but, that is what the experts use.
In fact, the one guide I spent 6 weeks with is Larry Erickson of Alpine Outfitters in Manson Creek BC, I think he is still up and kicking, the other guy was Don Peck I think he was in Ft. Nelson.

I have killed lots of deer and hogs but I have never seen a grizzly. But I lived and worked with professional grizzly hunters for 3 months and I am telling you what they told me.

A lot of excellent data has been gathered in this thread along with a lot of excellent bullshatt! Y’all keep it coming.

I know I have seen, and personally sent, multiple bullets in multiple calibers, from pistols to shotgun shells, to rifles, right through (albeit skinned) bear skulls, both black and brown, in tests of my own. That 9mm will make a hole, if he is close enough AND the shot goes where you want it to.

Most people, in my experience, decide that handguns are worthless on bears because they, for some reason, only think you would shoot at them while they are still 20-30 yards or more away.

I, for one, would not stop shooting until he has eaten both of my hands (or worse) - and if he is close enough to chew on you, then you can all but Mafia style him in the temple, eyeball, or mouth, at a distance making it awfully hard to miss.

For my two cents, pistols are not great if you want to stop the bear while he is still far enough away that you can't spit on him. But as a means of potentially saving your life at Do or Die range (close enough to leave powder burns), it's a rare handgun that CAN'T penetrate a bears skull.

Yes of course, the pistol will penetrate the bear's skull, if you hit it at the right angle.
But remember, even a 30-06 will bounce off of the water on a pond, if you hit it at a glancing angle.

Well,...I've never experienced a Griz charge,.....but I've seen videos of them doing so. I don't think many people understand that they can sprint 40mph. That's how fast a damn good Thoroughbred runs,...and it looks like a Griz can go from 0-40 in about .5 seconds. They don't have 4 speed transmissions. They're direct drive with a turbo.

My real feelings on the matter is,...if a Griz rushes you and you're not ready for it, you're gonna have just enough time to chit your britches if you're lucky. Then you're going to be a Grizzly's Sushi bar just long enough to wish you could chit your britches again.

They're very badass animals.

A Griz is what a werewolf wants to be when it grows up.

That seems about right...😎

Thanks for posting all that bullshit..

GFY!

Good luck.

don't have a 9 but do have a 38 super 1911 comp gun and para 40 1911 plus a few 45 acps. think i would pick the 45 colt or s&w 629 over either, the 500 s&w has never been shot since it was bought 12 yrs ago. i'm pretty good with a 1911 though after shooting ipsc for about 10yrs when i was younger.

Bears that are stopped are hit in the head. Regardless of the shape of the head. Fairly simple actually. I'm not saying a bullet won't skid but you have to hit more than the chest. The chest will help, but you may well be dead by the time it helps. Aiming at the CNS, the stray shots should still help but....

I can see the point of the bolt being in the way on a scabbard, but you can run a bolt as fast as a lever... you simply have to practice... The bolt gunners we shot against in service rifle matches used to harass us because we shot M1A and AR15 platforms, and in rapid fire they used to joke that they were faster as we had to wait for the action to cycle... LOL, but they were not far off.

In the meantime a lot of things I heard from respected folks in the 70s of my youth have since been proven wrong and simply the only way they knew back then, and it just carried on from generation to generation. Even if it was not the best information.

Lastly, I will never be stupid enough to not carry enough ammo, such that I"m afraid to waste shots on a charging bear in the hope that he stops the charge at the end, stands up and strolls in... nope, I'm shooting all the way.... I tend to like that I have 16 rounds of 10mm for that situation.

And for some reason we sure enjoy seeing them in the yard up north. You have to respect em and realize you are not top of the food chain. That said, the chances are better of being hit by lightning I'd suspect.

Being able to spend time in places that contain grizz, wolves and pumas is my proof that there is no such thing as karma. Preparing to deal w/ nature is almost as much fun as being deep w/in it. Wild places are the best places, better to be a griz turd than die in a nursing home w/ a tube in your dik.


mike r

I have learned so much.

I’ll now continue hunting with horses but being a wiseass I’ll continue putting a bolt gun on my horse. Oh crap. I’m right handed so it’s on the off side. How have I survived?

I’ve lived in AK for 38 years and have not learned as much as Simon did in a whole summer. Good thing I got innanet.

Now we need someone to opine how thick, dense, and just huge bear bones are.

Anyone have an experts .30-30 for sale! I’m trying to make amends.

Just remember,...it your plan doesn't work you're going to be making noises like the guy in the audio above.

Grizzly Man before:



Grizzly Man after:

Serious situation:

I was camped in an Alpine meadow in Glacier National Park about a mile from where this occurred when it happened in July, 1980,...maybe a mile away as the crow flies. It was a while before I went back.

Jane Ammerman, 19, female
Kim Eberly, 19, male

Glacier National Park, Montana

Their partially consumed bodies were found near their campsite at Divide Creek in the St. Mary Valley. The bear was later killed by Native American hunters.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fatal_bear_attacks_in_North_America#1980s

I bet o grizzly man was a full bloodied dimocrat too, how dumb can a phugger be to think that he can’t become a fresh hot pile of bear schitt in just a short time.

As dumb as someone who would rely on a 9mm for bear protection?

You might want to rethink that statement. It’s already been done by someone here, 458 Win.

I never said I would rely on I asked would it be sufficient enough, I was asking a bear slaying mofo as yourself. I got plenty of other choices to carry you [bleep] bear slayer you. I’d much rather have a 9 than a can of [bleep] bear spray, and if a mofo 22 will kill one so will a 9mm. How many grizzlies you ever killed or encountered? Let me guess not one [bleep], you probly schitt your pants and just stand there and let him eat you.

Such a potty mouth.

But crisco be a mountain man, and a scaredy cat.


mike r

You are the keyboard cowboy. Talking Schitt since this started. You have no clue what you are talking about. Doubt you've seen a grizzly. I think you are no more than a troll. You've made the ignore list. Congratulations.

Used to chat with this Alaskan a bit several years ago,...very good fellow. He spent a bit of time hunting Alaskan Grizzlies. He preferred an FN FAL that had been rebarreled to .358 Winchester for a DGR. He was happy with it.

My opinion,..a dependable, accurate semi auto rifle putting out 220 grain bullets at 2650 fps is about where someone would need to be if they want an edge against a Griz. I think I would be confident with that set up.

Even a standard FAL in .308 should be a worthy DGR if loaded with proper ammo.

Awesome caliber. Great rig.

the straight pull 95/30 firing the 8x56 comes pretty close to that suggested round in a fn.
not that expensive either, and relatively small.
i have heard people sometimes use them in bear country, that 200grain plus bullet at about 2400fps.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/8%C3%9756mmR

I get the impression from reading some Internet posts that they are stronger than Panzer armor.