I got a quote from the dealer that about gave me a stroke.
Of course I'd do the water pump and timing belt at the same time...
Most likely the engine has to be pulled for them to do it . If the vehicle is relatively low mileage I encourage you to contact Honda Customer Service and tell them in a nice way that you won't be doing business with them anymore. They will probably negotiate a more equitable price then what the dealer gave you.
I got a quote from the dealer that about gave me a stroke.
Of course I'd do the water pump and timing belt at the same time...
Most likely the engine has to be pulled for them to do it . If the vehicle is relatively low mileage I encourage you to contact Honda Customer Service and tell them in a nice way that you won't be doing business with them anymore. They will probably negotiate a more equitable price then what the dealer gave you.
1 (800) 999-1009
Good Luck
It doesn't have to be pulled, but it's not an easy deal. You have to take a lot of the motor apart so there is a lot of time involved obviously.
Park it in a trashy neighborhood with the keys in the switch and a case of beer on the passenger seat.... oh and make sure you got full coverage on it. MB
how many miles ? it is not just the Head Gasket , once you open the head you will see a whole bunch of thing need repair or replacement ( ring , cylinder honing ,piston , etc.. ) , not to mention the computer may need to change as well .
Yep mostly labour - Book time for both heads is 12.5 hours (Mitchell Pro-demand) - 14.2 hours (Alldata/Snap-on) + the little add ons for timing components & water pump !!
that sucks, 2700 with the timing belt and water pump though? That sounds about right. I wanna say I was in my 100,000k tunup in my 07 ridgeline for about 1400 which included a new motor mount along with the water pump, belt, plugs, fluids, etc....
They can probably find you a low mileage engine to swap for about that though.
Or honestly...it may be time to trade, its going on 10 years old, get what you can for it and use that 2700 towards a newer vehicle. They'll patch that pilot good enough to throw in an auction or sell to a used car lot down the street.
Park it in a trashy neighborhood with the keys in the switch and a case of beer on the passenger seat.... oh and make sure you got full coverage on it. MB
Don't even get me started. That rig has already been stolen once. Recovered and repaired and we are still driving it. lol Not kidding.
It's not broke down. It was a code that popped up on the dash. I'm going to have it looked at by someone else before I do anything that costs more than my first 3 cars combined.
Yep mostly labour - Book time for both heads is 12.5 hours (Mitchell Pro-demand) - 14.2 hours (Alldata/Snap-on) + the little add ons for timing components & water pump !!
Who diagnosed the head gasket leak & how ?
Symptoms ?
Paul,
Dealer diagnosed it, which is my first red flag. It was a code. The thing runs like a top with 110K miles on it. I'd not be surprised if it needs timing belt/chain, water pump, etc...
Yep mostly labour - Book time for both heads is 12.5 hours (Mitchell Pro-demand) - 14.2 hours (Alldata/Snap-on) + the little add ons for timing components & water pump !!
Who diagnosed the head gasket leak & how ?
Symptoms ?
Paul,
Dealer diagnosed it, which is my first red flag. It was a code. The thing runs like a top with 110K miles on it. I'd not be surprised if it needs timing belt/chain, water pump, etc...
Do you happen to know the DTC (diagnostic trouble code), so I can look it up. I'm struggling to think of a code, that would indicate a head gasket leak ??
I just took the code to the guy down the road from my office. That code is for a valve and timing adjustment. But while it's apart would do the timing belt, water pump, plugs, etc... but not a damn head gasket. Dealer is trying to be a stealer to my wife it sounds like. His cost, though much better was still a lot but not almost $3k. Good lord. Pretty much $2k still thought with tax, title and license all said and done.
but in typical Twin City Fashion from the car dealers there... they are trying to give you a snow job.
If you have a blown head gasket or leaking head gasket, the engine would be overheating... or if just starting the engine oil would look like someone had poured milk in it...
Honda recommends the T/Belt and Water Pump to be replaced at 90K... it is an interference engine.. but the T Belt job isn't really that hard....My Pilot's got the same engine with 270K on it now...with ZERO issues experienced...at 110K you got a creampuff.
I've seen that engine in at the College automotive shop with over 400K on them...
Honda recommends valve adjustments at 160K....we checked mine at that mileage and they were right in factory specs....
at honest mechanic in the Twin Cities is worth their weight in gold....I knew a few which I am sure are probably long retired now...
I was once having shocks replaced on my Volvo down at Sears at Ridgedale... they had an alignment special going on... while I sat there in the waiting area by the service desk.... bet I saw 50 people come in there with cars not that old.. they were coming to pick them up....and every damn one was given quotes for $100 to $150 claiming they needed new tire road ends.. I got the service manager and told him who did he think he was fooling... I wasn't the only one as it was on the News on CCO a few weeks later about the scam they were running...
I've had two factory recalls on air bags for the Pilot and one for my Acura RS.....
The Acura Dealer told me I needed $1800 in repairs before he could release the vehicle....Like it needed an oil change RIGHT NOW.... when I had personally changed it the week before...it also needed a brake job.. which we had done at the college a month before...
The Pilot had a recall for the front left air bag... then they told me that needed $3k in immediate repairs before they could release the vehicle... and gave me the list.. same BS...
Then 6 months later, they sent me a real notice for the Right passenger Air Bag...evidently couldn't do them at the same time....took that to another dealer instead...they wanted justy short of $5K in "emergency needed repairs".....they gave me that laundry list....
That dealer argued that my vehicle hadn't been in the Honda computer system for repair for the last 4 years and had been driven over 100K with no work being done according to their records... I was taking my life and my families life into jeopardy just driving it down the highway.... and that could not only threaten my life and my families, but potentially threaten the lives of other passengers in other cars around me....
Thanked him for the list, told him to release the vehicle anyway NOW or he could release it after he heard from my attorney's office....He STFU immediately and told someone to go get my keys....I took the car over to the college to check it out stem to stern to make sure they hadn't sabotaged something just to try & get business out of it....
I'd let New to 99s run the code thru All Data or Mitchells.....I'm sure its something simple.. but I'll also tell ya, the check engine light loves to come on and then go off all the time once they hit about 7 or 8 years old...especially loving to tell ya its a plug misfire.... while the engine itself keeps humming along...
I don't pay attention to the engine light... instead I do it the old fashion way.. keep the maintenance up on it on a routine basis....
They ought to just put a computer code on it... send dealer check for $2K or more.... you are currently delinquent on your 'protection money' to your dealers service dept.
We work on them daily. No such code as A14. There is a POa14 code that has to do with the motor mount. If the head gasket is leaking water under the intake manifold, it would as mentioned above-milky. If it leaks into the combustion chamber it will miss and steam out the tailpipe. I disagree with not paying attention to an engine light. I understand if you have a "say" vent system leak. it doesn't need to be fixed today. BUT!, if another problem came along, how would you know it then? Yes, I would do the TB, waterpump, and drive belt.
We work on them daily. No such code as A14. There is a POa14 code that has to do with the motor mount. If the head gasket is leaking water under the intake manifold, it would as mentioned above-milky. If it leaks into the combustion chamber it will miss and steam out the tailpipe. I disagree with not paying attention to an engine light. I understand if you have a "say" vent system leak. it doesn't need to be fixed today. BUT!, if another problem came along, how would you know it then? Yes, I would do the TB, waterpump, and drive belt.
have a leak down test done then....
if he bought it used with low miles... the previous owner could have run it dry on fluid and coolant is all I can think of, that it would be displaying a head gasket issue at 110K....hence why they traded it in...
Sounds like your biggest problem is finding a good honest repair shop. If I were new in town or haven't needed car repair, I would call a variety of car parts shops and ask them about their idea of a good shop. They deal with the shops daily and know the good ones.
I miss the ease of fixing and maintaining my 1970 VW Bug, or my 1968 Squareback in college...
a crescent wrench, a flat head and Phillips screw driver and the tool kit that came with the car took care of about 99% of your routine maintenance....
Like the little wrench and bar to take off the wheel lugs also would double as a spark plug wrench... and could also drop the drain plug....
the air filter took motor oil.....
the bar to take off the hub caps and take off the wheel lugs also worked on taking the valve covers to replace trhe valve cover gasket or adjust the valves...
Two bolts to remove the carbs.. 4 bolts to drop the engine...disconnect like 4 wires... took 10 minutes to drop or re install the motor....
What you are seeing on your dash display is not Code A14...
What you are seeing are Codes A... 1 & 4..
Page 235 of my Honda's Manual.....
Code A: Replace engine oil..
Code 1: Rotate tires
Code 4: Replace Spark Plugs Replace Timing Belt and inspect Water Pump Inspect Valve Clearance
Note on timing belt...If driven in very high temps ( over 110 F, ) or in very low temps ( under -20 F) or towing a trailer replace every 60K.
if you are not overheating, and/or see a milky residue when checking your oil.... tell your dealer to Kiss Off.
Thank you. She was at the dealer for the oil chance so that makes sense. We haven't had the car that long, so she still has 50% oil changes and she had the day off. I rotate the tires or discount tire does, so I don't need to pay a dealership $50 for that 10 min job.
They made the mistake of calling her back yesterday after me making some calls. Big mistake.
On the VWs, you will need a couple more wrenches to adjust the valves every 3,000 miles. On the square back, what would you do if you had a FI problem? I loved all of my Type 1, Type 2, Type 3, and Type 4 VWs, but they were high maintenance compared to the water cooled vehicles. I worked on VWs exclusively from 1965-about 1980.
What you are seeing on your dash display is not Code A14...
What you are seeing are Codes A... 1 & 4..
Page 235 of my Honda's Manual.....
Code A: Replace engine oil..
Code 1: Rotate tires
Code 4: Replace Spark Plugs Replace Timing Belt and inspect Water Pump Inspect Valve Clearance
Note on timing belt...If driven in very high temps ( over 110 F, ) or in very low temps ( under -20 F) or towing a trailer replace every 60K.
if you are not overheating, and/or see a milky residue when checking your oil.... tell your dealer to Kiss Off.
Thank you. She was at the dealer for the oil chance so that makes sense. We haven't had the car that long, so she still has 50% oil changes and she had the day off. I rotate the tires or discount tire does, so I don't need to pay a dealership $50 for that 10 min job.
They made the mistake of calling her back yesterday after me making some calls. Big mistake.
Originally Posted by Seafire
Originally Posted by butchlambert1
We work on them daily. No such code as A14. There is a POa14 code that has to do with the motor mount. If the head gasket is leaking water under the intake manifold, it would as mentioned above-milky. If it leaks into the combustion chamber it will miss and steam out the tailpipe. I disagree with not paying attention to an engine light. I understand if you have a "say" vent system leak. it doesn't need to be fixed today. BUT!, if another problem came along, how would you know it then? Yes, I would do the TB, waterpump, and drive belt.
have a leak down test done then....
if he bought it used with low miles... the previous owner could have run it dry on fluid and coolant is all I can think of, that it would be displaying a head gasket issue at 110K....hence why they traded it in...
I don't think there is anything wrong with the head gasket. They probably told her to change it since they were in there....When I talked to them, there was no mention of it. There are no telltail signs of an issue, which is why I called in the first place. Unfortunately it's a pretty well known dealer and they own a lot of different dealerships selling pretty much every make/model in the area. I won't be back ever. They tried to pull the wool over her eyes and she's smart enough to see through the bull schit.
We'll have the rest fixed, and it still won't be cheap, and it won't be at the dealership, but this damn rig may go on forever. I do see my stepdaughter getting it to drive, and she's 12.
I had a leaking head gasket on a Ford 302 V8. I got a bottle of Bars Leaks Head Gasket Repair, and put it in. 15 minutes later, the gasket was sealed. That was 2 years ago. Still running fine. For $32 Try it.
I lived with a gal that had a Z24 back in the day. The car temp gauge would peg out every time she stopped at a traffic light. She brought it in to a chain auto repair place and they told her it was her head gasket and it was going to be $$$. She was going to college and working 2 jobs. She came home bawling her eyes out because she just didn't have the money to fix it.
I went to high school with one of the mechanics that worked for the same chain in a different town so I brought it to him for a 2nd opinion. He was out in shop for ten minutes and came in to the store side and said "got $14.00?" I said "yeah, why?" He said "It's just a bad radiator cap"
The next day I went to first shop and raised holy hell and made the manager apologize to her. Frickin crooks!
I had a leaking head gasket on a Ford 302 V8. I got a bottle of Bars Leaks Head Gasket Repair, and put it in. 15 minutes later, the gasket was sealed. That was 2 years ago. Still running fine. For $32 Try it.
Did the same on my POS plow truck with a 350 in it.
The next day I went to first shop and raised holy hell and made the manager apologize to her. Frickin crooks!
The Midas shop in Duluth probably had to be closed for cleaning the day they told my sister they couldn't give her car back until she paid $1000+ in repairs. She called my dad in tears. He left work and drove up there in a hurry....they left with her car and the shop employees in tears.
I think we can put the myth of Japanese car immortality to rest now. My 2004 Corolla had a defective tranny case that eventually led to its early downfall. More recently, when I took my 2010 Impreza in for timing belt replacement at just over 100k, they informed me that it was starting to show signs of head gasket failure, a $3000 job. Fortunately, my ex totaled it before it died on its own, but it was making some seriously disturbing noises by then, bad enough that her co-workers asked her what the Hell was going on in there.
Cars are apparently now just like riflescopes; can't depend on any of them.
I lament the "shoddiness" that afflicts my industry !
Truly makes it hard on the precious few good ones.
Amen to that! If I lived near your shop or Badger's I'd have no question where I'd take my car when it needed service and it was over my head or abilities...
(For the MN guys)... when I lived back that way for 15 years, there was an Amoco Station on County Rd H or G... and I 35E... just one exit north of where the Walmart is... there in White Bear Lake/Vadnais Hts
it was ran by a guy named Scott Drake.. who actually was an accountant who loved working on cars... Guy had already made his millions in life.. so bought a gas station and had a repair shop a block away.
Scott's hourly rates were actually a little higher than most of the dealers... it was higher than Anderson Cadillac there in Roseville....but I use to take my cars to him for repair work, even when I moved from White Bear Lake to Plymouth....
The reason was the guy was the most honest guy I've ever seen who owned a tool box....He used no flat rate repair manual.... he charged you how long he thought it should take his guys or him to do a repair...which was always 20 to 25% of the time listed in a flat rate manual....
once dropped my Volvo off for something at noon and he told me to pick it up at 4 PM... so I rode with another rep for the afternoon.. when we stopped by to pick it up.. I was told the car wasn't ready and wouldn't be done until tomorrow... that kinda tinked me off but what are ya going to do...
so I had to get a ride home from my buddy... 40 miles away.... and then I had to get a ride over there at noon time the next day....
got there to pick up the vehicle and Scott is handing me the keys... tells me that he found a few things that needed attention which he had his guys take care of.... but then it took 8 hours.... I groaned....then he rang me up for 2 hours worth of labor....
So I asked why only 2 hours worth, since his guys worked on it 8 hours? And what about the parts needed?
His reply, because my guys should of had it done in 2 hours... I'm not going to charge you 6 hours for their screw ups in getting it right....besides I finished the job to make sure it was right...
and then for your inconvenience, of having to get a ride home and a ride back.....the parts are on us...
That is why he did all my repair work exclusively for the entire time I lived in MN... he had the highest hourly rates in the Twin Cities, yet there wasn't a place under the sun in the Cities you could get your car repaired cheaper, quicker and with more honesty... he was about 10 years older than me.. so I am sure he is long retired and probably moved back home to Key West FL..
and the guy was a multi millionaire before he ever bought the business...Every Christmas he got a bottle of his favorite booze from me.... Antoseck? some Italian liquor... can't remember how to pronounce it, but I remember where to get it back in those days there in White Bear Lake.
On the VWs, you will need a couple more wrenches to adjust the valves every 3,000 miles. On the square back, what would you do if you had a FI problem? I loved all of my Type 1, Type 2, Type 3, and Type 4 VWs, but they were high maintenance compared to the water cooled vehicles. I worked on VWs exclusively from 1965-about 1980.
I had a couple of Squarebacks have the fuel injection go out on them.. which was common in places that used Road Salt in winter.....what did I do when I had a Fuel Injection problem?
I'd get a set of carbs and the linkage for about $15 or less from a 66 or 67 engine.. and put them on.. which didn't take long to bolt on, and eliminated that problem....
In college I did this several times, buy a Squareback with a blown engine..$50 to $100.... then go down to the boneyard, and it wasn't hard to find an engine out of a wreck that only had 10K to 20K on it.. for $75 to $100.
took less than 30 minutes at a buddy's shop to toss it in.. would take the carbs off an old engine laying around his place, included in that 30 minutes and then I'd end up putting 100 to 125k on that engine...has several Squarebacks that the bodies had 250 K or more when I junked them... usually were starting to get kinda rusty at that point....I went to college in Massachusetts...
Use to buy Radial tires off of wrecks in the bone yard also for $10 each... off fairly low mileage cars... just give them my old rim with tire and they'd give me the take off radial....
Put myself thru college and paid for it myself... so I was a kid on a budget... and If I didn't want to walk and rely on the subway system to get around.. that was what I had available....
Hard to have a love life with no car.....
Besides Butch, if ya worked on VDubs... as far as valve adjustments, ya know the old saying... it they are rattling, they ain't too tight....3 quarts of 30 wt every 2500 miles, points every 10K and plugs every 15K...along with a distributor cap....and in northern areas, wrap the heat boxes in Tin Foil real good and they would not rust out on ya....
The Honda dealer that I bought my '04 Pilot from started screwing us on repairs so I took it to another Honda dealer whose service department treats customers right. When you suspect you're getting the automotive shaft a second opinion is always a good idea.
