Heading off shootings at church?

The policy at our church is to leave the inside doors open, I guess so an intruder can be seen?

Other than the ushers pack AR's, any thoughts?

The congregation is packing also.

Most people in our church don't know it but we have an armed team that 'hangs around' during services keeping their eyes open. Plus, our minister is an ex-marine who's no slouch with a gun.

Concealed carry sprinkled throughout the congregation.

Then post a sign saying so outside and at the doorway.

You just don't talk about packin in our church. We have had a meeting with planning types and a psychologist to hear of all the details of protection in the physical plant. . I only hope an assailant will choose an easier target. Rusty

Once it becomes pretty common knowledge that churches ARE NOT gun free zones; the church shootings will stop. Funny how mass shootings only seem to occur in gun free zones.

I do.....every Sunday, and so are several others.

Some of the hardcore religious fanatics like Catholics, Lutherans , and etc. are really against providing their own security but most of the born again churches realize it's an absolute necessity. I know people who make up parts of the security details at their churches and more power to them. When I was a kid I remember hearing "God helps those who help themselves" so many times I never forgot it. Gun free zones were dreamed up by a moron and seconded by more morons. MB

Its a scary thought what could happen here in Canada in Church, legally nobody is packing that I'm aware of, unless your the law.

We have armed people at our church.

If anyone is packing at our church it is news to me. I don't think we could convince any to do it if they don't feel comfortable with it.

Being armed is one thing, to be ready, and willing to shoot at an armed intruder in a half full church may be something else?

that's the way my bil sees it at his church. those that want to carry do so, those that don't don't. it's really that simple. a sheriff's deputy, off duty, sometimes attends for spiritual fulfillment. various other members of various persuasions.

no sense in any hard and fast rules, there's too much variance across the church membership.

The congregation is packing.

There are conservative Christian churches that believe the Bible. I think they're the ones most apt to take steps to defend themselves. Then you have the liberal churches that have embraced liberal ideas like same sex marriage, abortion, etc. In short, they've thrown out the Bible. Those are the ones most likely to prohibit guns.

Since getting my CCW license in 1980, I don't think I've been to a church service unarmed.

We have had a security team for several years now. We mean business!

Wyoming is a "Constitutional Carry State" and in my church at least 1/2 of the congregation is carrying at all times. The pastor and all the deacons do too.

I like what one of my uncles used to say. I have a bible and a 45. I can teach you about God or introduce you to him.

My bible case. Hasbeen

That's pretty good!

What do you carry in your violin case?

Uh, maybe some of the congregation pack heat? Me personally, I’m strapped up most places I go, but to a church, I’m throwing an extra mag in my coat pocket. Praise the Lord. 😎

The congregation needs to be well trained to "hit the deck" in case of an armed confrontation.Would make it easier to kill the perp without hitting an innocent bystander.

I like that, and 45's too.

I'm pretty sure Simon Peter cut off an ear protecting Jesus. Even the angles pack.

I'm not sure about licensing for a firey sword though.

Not everyone who packs has to have an angle.

true story

No, but they have the right (angle).

claymores at the entrance, belt fed in the choir loft, fast mover on deck.

Exactly right. Our pastor just won't say that, or let people know. 3 Problems

1. As said you can be aiming at a bad guy and have an innocent, jump up between you two. Bad things can happen here.

2. I suspect bad guys expect people to run blindly the doors to outside where they easily become victims, either with shots, or explosions.

3. Perimeters are critical. Do not let people get all the way inside without being confronted.

I just finished a term as president of my church council. Over the last year, we had the local police chief come in to do a walk through of both the main church and the education/day care building. He brought a list of generic things that many churches are doing and then made some specific to us recommendations. The most visible thing we did was to start locking all the doors except the front ones during church service. Any one coming in has to come in past the ushers. We also had a breakfast meeting with the ushers and one of the PD officers gave a presentation on 'situational awareness' and what might be indicators of a 'bad guy'.

We've made some less obvious changes to the building and have a couple more in the works. We gave a set of building blueprints to the PD and they scanned them into their computer system. In an emergency, having that information in the first patrol car on scene could save time, confusion and possibly lives.

The pastor would be happy if no guns existed anywhere in the world but she knows a large number of people would leave if she pushed for a ban on carrying in church. We just left it at 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell'. I think it took some of the wind out her sails when the police chief said he was fine with people carrying in church.

It is a fine line to walk between making the church like Fort Knox and being open and welcoming to visitors and others. FWIW, it's a Lutheran church in a very rural conservative part of Pa. But I think the Lutheran church my daughter and family attend near Reading has done some security things too. At least I think I noticed some changes but I don't go there very often.

Dale

My friends and I are some of them harmless Lutherans too. ;-{>8

Only half in that part of Wyoming?

You must be including young children in your count.

This is exactly the situation in our Church! We have an armed security team, strategically positioned in the Sanctuary to deal with armed intruders. All other doors are locked during service except the one entrance door that one other person and myself have direct sight of. They would be well advised to not enter our church with ill intent.....

KSP adapted their School Active Shooter training sessions to church environments and started offering to church groups after Sutherland Springs. The session our "Safety Team" attended last year had approx 100 participants from more than 20 churches. Highly recommend the KSP training for anyone in KY contemplating formalizing their church security plans.

Given that we are a rural church, and already had a number of CCDW holders in the congregation, our safety and security planning was more "evolution" than "revolution". Wont bore the group with details here. But, if anyone is interested, willing to discuss off line.

We may or may not have armed people in our church. I suspect we don't. The issue is not the church, it is the law. In Ohio to carry a firearm into a place of worship is a felony 5 unless you have written permission. The church correctly see's liability should it actively allow carry.

In a bill passed two years ago that restriction was to be eliminated. That part of the bill had that provision removed at the behest of church counsels. More than likely it was the big church counsels, like Catholics and Lutherans, that did that. I believe that is hypocritical, asking the government to make law effecting any aspect of church, it seems if you allow, or encourage, one influence you must accept all.

Minus that law, and the proactive need to provide written permission, the church would be no more liable than Walmart. In this case actively doing something has a lot more meaning than doing nothing.

I posted recently in a similar thread that the church that i have just decide to probably leave, when approached with the question of providing security said "No". And when told that individuals would be carrying a church minister said "The church won't stand behind you if someone is shot. The police station is only minutes away".

I agree with Hasbeen's idea.

I can see the "No" when it is a state that requires permission to be given. But in a place where that permission is not required I think banning is not an effort to protect, it's a power and control thing. It's feeling in control of their own little fiefdom.