Last two years I've been cutting expenses to the bone paying off debt.

I could consolidate the rest at a much lower interest rate. Keep on living as I am, and get out of debt months earlier.

I expect my currently excellent credit rating might take a hit in the short term, but I ain't gonna make any purchases until I'm clear anyhow.

OK, whats the downside?

They are making money somehow...

Dave Ramsey can help, Birdie.

I’ve never heard of any benefits from a consolidation loan. Never.

Maybe others here who maybe have done it can contribute. I’m thinking Dutch, Longbob,,,,,0thers.

Every bank I have ever dealt with wants to consolidate.


They talk about interest rates and cash flow and such.


It has cost us money every time.


If you can save interest and pay down the principal faster, I would say in your instance that you should be fine.


Fugging credit score is a joke. What are you worried about a your credit score for anyway??

Ole Dave Ramsey would say get out of debt.

That may be the best play, IMO.

DF

The reason you have a good credit score is because you owe so much and make the payments on time.
Mine has gone down some because I have no debt.

If you have good/ decent credit now and a good job, why not consolidate? It can save you hundreds each month in credit card payments...My wife and I did it through Freedom Plus 6 months or so ago, and I havent seen any drawbacks yet. Just make sure you do it through a good reputable company. We got in touch with Freedom Plus through lendingtree.com.. There are some companies out there that sign you up then fight it out with your creditors for weeks over the balance they will pay behind the scenes. Meanwhile, you end up with late payments on your credit while they duke it out before you even know what's happening behind the scenes.

Yep...nothing's free.

Something a wise scholar and educator should already know.

Consolidation to a lower interest rate should save one some coin, if he does not extend his payment schedule. Of course front end fees should be included in ones calculations, and I would not add debt to my home financing. Years back we refinanced our home twice in 12 months for lower rates and incurred no additional fees. Just banks wanting our business.

Pay off the highest interest rates first.

I've never worried about my score. If I ask the bank for $$$, they always come through.

Dave Ramsey is an idiot ! There I said it, and it deserves repeated.

Credit card debt is unsecured debt, hence the high interest rate, and if are dumb or unfortunate to have a lot of it, then yes borrow to pay it off and then put them away. The rest of your debt needs to be looked at in an importance to thought, it is far better to quit making a car payment with a 8-9 % interest rate than to borrow more money against your home @ 5 % and lose them both.

Me either, but I believe the problem usually is people consolidate debt, free up their credit cards, but then continue their old spending habits that got 'em into trouble in the first place and get even more in debt by continuing to spend more money than they're making.

I don't really have any old spending habits, and I currently have tens of thousands of available credit on hand I haven't touched.

I'm looking for a downside in consolidating but I ain't seeing it. I'm just wary as all get out is all.

Sheer fuucckin genius here.

Wents to school with AOC, no doubt.

Your discipline will bring you out of this.

Sure doesn’t hurt to ask like you’re doing.

I guess its here we should ask you to give us your credentials on debt management, financial planning and character evaluation.

I was wary as heck too. See my post above, just make sure you talk to a reputable company. The people that get in trouble with debt consolidation are the ones with bad credit already and have to use a less than reputable company to consolidate...

That was typed on my phone I have since fixed a couple typos, but Ramsey's spots haven't changed.

That's coming from some one with a low earning capability. You are way better off increasing your earning potential , than your debt.

You nailed it. Most consolidate their debt and then promptly started digging new debt.

I don't sleep on the floor and I can afford to air condition my home, any other questions ?

Uhhh,,,,yeah. Got it now.

Thanks for the tip, I'll look 'em up.

Its two credit cards that I have making me these offers, obviously they think that someone in my position right now is gonna consolidate so they would rather I pay that lower interest rate to them rather than to someone else. One of 'em is at zero balance, has been for some time, obviously they would like some of my business. Both are offering loan amounts equal to my total unsecured debt.

If you can refinance the debt at a lower overall rate with no closing costs and without extending the term, go for it.

One.

Read Ramsey’s books yet ?

That's exactly why it could hamper your progress. There's also the mentality that you did something to fix your debt problem, but in reality you just moved it around. I did some level of this and created new problems. Finally got onboard with a debt snowball, and am debt free now. Consolidated loans eliminate the psychological advantage of a debt snowball.

Its all in one's perspective I guess.

I find it sad that you have already become soft enough to NEED a bed (beds are for women and/or sleeping with women), and the fact that you don't have anything you would rather spend your money on than something as trivial as A/C.

JMHO.

Never, ever, borrow against your home except to make improvements on it. If you get hurt or sick you risk losing your home. If you die, your wife and kids might lose it.

No , I am not in debt, I am acquiring wealth, purchasing real-estate, mostly farm land, that I can hunt on, or lease to others.

Not sure if the company I used is also a credit card company. You are right to be wary though, sounds like you got good conservative spending habits... I did a ton of research before I consolidated and their are a lot of snakes in that Industry...

It shouldn't be all that difficult to calculate.

Add up the total amount you will have to spend to pay off your debt in your current situation then compare it to the total amount you will have to spend to pay it off after it's been consolidated.

Ask them for the bottom line. Payment per month,....number of months.

That’s good.

Good point. I got the offers but no mention of having to put up collateral. Near as I can tell these are offers of unsecured loans at a lower interest rate.

Birdie that just don’t sound right at all. But guess it could be.

I am a phucqking financial jeaniss and watching closely.

The downside is if you do become truly "debt free," and it sounds like you are getting close, it will drive everyone you've ever owed money to out of their collective minds and they will spare no expense in their efforts to get you back in debt.

Are you dealing with a bank, or other?

After a horseback accident that resulted in a broken back ,neck and 3 ribs I don't sleep much anyways, but when I do its with my wife, as for the air conditioner I don't much care either way, but my wife likes it, and I like her so we're going to stick with that one. And not being on the public doll I have the option to work harder and smarter to increase my income, that comes in really handy when a guy needs money, spending money or pocket money. Learn to earn, you heard it here first.

It will work fine if u consolidate.....but if you go back to your ways of doing chit ...u will be doing it again in a couple years....

Some lending institutions will offer consolidation loans simply because they want to make the interest instead of another lender,..or lenders. So they offer to consolidate it at a lower interest rate in order to get your business.

A lot of times those credit card 0% APR offers have a time limit on them and they ding you hard when the time is up.

This a golden rule, never ever risk loosing your home or you will never own another.

Buy a rental like a duplex, fix it up, so that will pay for itself, and use it for collateral if you want to borrow money.

Read carefully.

If the interest rate is good, read carefully-er.
Seriously, if a credit card company is offering you a good loan,you
are missing something.

You have a job and good credit?
Have a relationship with a bank? Or, better, Credit Union? (Not a loan/finance company)
Look at a personal loan from them.
The rate will be high, it's unsecured.
But, it won't be credit card high. And it will not come with lots of fees.


Debt consolidation is a term used to create a special product that is $pecial.

"Any downside to debt consolidation?"

The biggest downside is that it is just kicking the can down the road, distracting you from what you should be focused on: doing everything in your power to pay off the debt. Start selling valuable stuff you don't absolutely need and use those proceeds to payoff the highest interest card, then the next highest.

Forget about more borrowing!!!

And Birdy why did you leave off the smiley face?

Debt consolidation isn't kicking the can down the road.

It's writing one check a month instead of five.

I concur with this. My wife followed Dave's advice to get us out of $50K of credit card debt, spread across eight different cards.

It ain't, their minimum payment over 36 months ain't all that much more than I've been paying in interest. Barring unforeseen catastrophe I'm done by the end of next year even at current rates, this consolidation loan would save me at least a couple of thousand and a couple of months. Even WITH catastrophe my current debt with consolidation wouldn't be any higher, just owed at a lower interest rate.

Most likely catastrophe for me at 62 would be a major medical event, but I got good medical insurance, and I even got guaranteed income replacement insurance if I cannot work.

The only risk I can see with this loan is an obligation to be done in 36 months

I thought you were being smug and sarcastic. I was disappointed that you went there.

I do recommend sleeping on the floor tho, we are men.

Yes but the question is from whom.

If you’re paying high interest rates to 5 institutions and go to a 6th to consolidate at a lower rate they’re making money at the expense of the other institutions not you.

Oh, so you WERE being smug and sarcastic. OK. You have worked hard and achieved enviable financial success, congrats.

I myself never really GAS about "things", still don't. Before marriage I was happy with just my tools, weapons, binocs and motorcycle, I'm getting back to about that ASAP.

But.....

I don't lie, cheat or steal (not suggesting you do), I keep my word, meet my obligations, and I'm well enough set up that I won't ever be a financial burden to my son. In hindsight, I could wish I could leave him more than a house, but I got ambivalent feelings about that, I'm not sure we do our kids any favors by leaving them anything material.

Seriously, hit Youtube and listen to some of Dave's stuff, the premise is very simple but until you hear him lay it out for someone else it doesn't sink in. I would bet jimy is working on the same philosophy and just doesn't know it.

Forget your manliness, it got you into your present state. Good credit is an asset if used correctly. If you are a teacher w/ standing in your community you should have easy access to a credit union that will slaughter any credit card rates on an unsecured loan. Get a math teacher, or better yet, a bookie to do the comparison math. Once your debt picture is improved don't buy replica muskets and channel the funds into paying off the new, hopefully lower interest debt.

If and when you get out of debt hire a life coach, I hear dave is good.



mike r

OK, I skipped a page. Maybe this has been addressed. But

WTF is wrong with folks that have debt after they turn 60 or so ??

Why would anybody need a "life coach" to not get into debt?

Living within your means isn't rocket science.

All sound advice, 'cept fer the musket thing..... when yer down to your last dog span of years you have to make allowances.

It was sarcasm , smug I am not, hence the smiley face, I appreciate your dedication. You are an educated man, this should be very easy, its risk verses return, the bank is your enemy, your nemesis, and the sooner a man realizes this the better off you will be, car payments are for fools and kids, and so is borrowing money to pay off money, if your debt worry's you, and only you, I would suggest that you get a summer job and earn some extra jinga ,instead off taking a long bike hike, but myself I would suggest that you do what makes you happy, and forget about the rest of this nonsense.

What interest rate are we talking?

And on the public doll, was to say that your income is set, you will get payed no more, or any less, no matter the quality or the quantity of your work, that is a place I don't want to be. I have been poor, its not a goal to aim for, money might not by happiness, but being broke ensures that it won't happen.

Well, seems we have been posting across each other.

In a perfect world I'm on the road on a bicycle for two months this summer, which I can do for not much more than I would spend anyway (sleeping on the ground by the side of the road most nights will do that). Money lost not working this summer? Prob'ly a net loss of 3 to $4,000, set me back maybe two or three months in paying off debt.

I would put it off but I can't guarantee I'll still have the knees for it a year or two from now, heck I dunno that I still have the knees for it now.

Divorce?

The interest rate?

Alcohol

Close to my mortgage rate, and we have a pretty good mortgage rate.

Another point of view is with your public sector job, you don't have to work a life time of savings and establishing wealth, because after 30 years you will be paid a pension for the rest of your life, your medical insurance will be paid and basically you have it dicked! In the private sector pensions are lost, benefits are cut, and well its up to you to cover stuff. That's why private people vote one way and government employees vote another. Really you know where you stand its just how many checks you have to cut per month, and how long you have to do it.

I wish I had vices, like drugs or drinking or women or gambling.

Nope, I somehow ended up here without any of those things

I have developed a Liberty Creek Merlot habit, so far its only costing me about $7 a week.

No I don't vote Democrat.

I did vote for a Democrat mayor once, Nelson Wolfe. Can't recall any others.

I'm a simple issue voter: Pro-Life, pro gun, pro environment, in that order. And of course we need a secure Border.

Are you going to save 5--6 grand off of interest by paying it down 3, I don't think so, so go enjoy life.

None that wouldn't be over your head.

No debt trumps a good credit rating. A good credit rating used to be a hand shake of integrity. A credit rating was concocted by the Fed in order to convince that you NEED good credit. Look where it got you. They planned that. Boosts their bottom line, not yours.

You earn more than enough to pay your bills and live as you chose, pay your bills and be happy, the bank is not your friend.

Birdy,

watch for these things:

is there a fee for transferring the balances (lots of times there is)

are there "points" up front? (prepaid interest)

like some one already said, they are making their money somewhere.


most people will tell you to pay the highest interest rate off first, while making minimum payment on the others.

you could game it all out on spreadsheet.

Ya I forgot to add that I don't have to live in Oklahoma !

Beyond the debt thing, a life coach can advise you how best to invest your money. You done real good without one. At this point I am distressed to learn that my life expectancy is now 82. I hope not.

I don't either. I could live anywhere I want. I choose to remain here. I also have 1,400 acres of Oklahoma ranch land that is fun to hunt and fish.

I’ve never listened to Dave Ramsey but I can tell you what I’ve been doing. I had a decent amount of CC debt after my divorce 8 years ago. It’s taken me quite a while to dig out of it, but I finally am. Could o have done it faster? Yep, but I wouldn’t be enjoying anything and a guy needs to have a little fun too.

My parents weren't real good examples of how to save money mostly because we didn’t have any. But I did learn I didn’t need $20k in credit card debt and a mortgage at 60 years old. So, I figured I better start to do something. That something was so flat stop using credit for anything from there on out.

First I stopped going to lunch at work. Saved 50-60 a week. So right out of the gate I had about $200/mth to start paying on CC’s. I made minimum payments on everything but my highest balance credit card. Any extra money, I put on it. Tax return, Christmas money, etc... it took about 2-3 years but I paid off $10k. Had a Home Depot Card from some remodeling. Used my old payment and the min payment I was making on it together one it. Paid it off in 1 yr. That was zero interest for 18mths. When those 2 cards were paid off I threw them out.

Next was the boat. Own it now. I haven’t used a CC in around 3 years. Don’t need to. I have money to buy schitnor I don’t buy schit. Soon I’ll be doubling my truck payment and have that paid off. Then the only thing I’ll have a loan on is the house. I don’t see a way around that for the foreseeable future but will have it paid off approximately 10 years early. Give or take some emergency or medical issues.

Vote Democrat

I didn't do anything special. I bought a couple of properties,...sold one, kept one,..rented the one I kept and am in the process of buying another one with the rent from the one I kept.

Seriously,..there wasn't a lot of planning that went into it. I'm definitely no guru at investing. My main advantage has been a healthy fear of debt.

[quote]I don't either. I could live anywhere I want. I choose to remain here. I also have 1,400 acres of Oklahoma ranch land that is fun to hunt and fish.
[/qoute]

If I "owned" It, I would not leave either......

And I do.

Then you should understand my posts, land rules.......................

Where do you live? Or should I just ask "how far south of Peyton Place"?

North western PA and southern NY, it depends....

if you can reduce the interest rates you are paying, comfortable with the purposed payments, no up front fees, and the terms envolved why would you not do it, assuming you don't just dig in deeper.

few years ago i got a solicitation from a major bank for a credit card, no interest, no fees, for one year. Then it flipped to their normal interest rate. I said i wanted a 20 000 limit. I got a call on that one, why so much? My answer is none of your concern either approve it or don't. They did. i put it in a time certificate to come due just before the rate increase and paid it off. Collected interest on their money all y ear. I had to make monthly payments but no big deal.
ramsey is not a fool in many areas and getting out of any debt is one of them
and, i sleep in a bed, have multiple a/c units and about 45years in the financial world.

We have hard woods and short growing seasons, the milk market is gone and for a man that wanted to have a place to deer hunt, now's the time to buy,.

Congrats, if'n I had it to do over I would have paid more attention to money.

I will note that I weren't I that brought up the sleep on the floor issue in this thread.....

It was a joke for Gods sake !

I've slept more nights in a barn than you have on the floor...

If I live like I am now 'till 2022 or 2023 I could have my house paid off too. The roof don't leak (yet, knock on wood), but its still mostly original inside. Financing a major renovation of it inside and out is gonna be my next big hurdle, that and a car payment, my "new" car is ten years and 260,000 miles old. A fixed-up house and a paid-off Toyota and I'm good to go.

You're forgiven, I just get to feel like a d!ck for bragging on sleeping on the floor. I do have a bed, the dog really likes it.

The key to wealth is to buy things that help you increase your wealth, and to have a partner with the same goals, twice the income and half the expenses. it not rocket science.

Uh huh...



There are some really pretty areas in that part of the country.

Having your wife go rabid on you ain't rocket science either

Do you have a 401k ?

Its simple increase your income lower your spending ,or be satisfied with the results and go have fun.

I have friends in that boat, their all heading to Gilliagns island, I do not envy you..

No, my ex has a good one though that we paid on for more'n twenty years.

Texas Teacher Retirement is decent and I got more'n 30 years in.

Both of us are still working.

Its simple in theory and design but in practice, life can get in the way. It takes a plan.

You are heads over heel ahead of most people on this thread, you are educated and well heeled, just don't over think this, and go enjoy yourself, Ramesy's way is to give up your life, to eliminate to your debt, at 30 that make a little sense, In your case it makes none.

Two methods I know of that have worked well to get out of debt the quickest and least painful. One I did myself a number of years ago, the other several good friends did.

The one I used was paying the minimum plus a dollar or two on all debts except the one with the smallest balance and paid as much as possible on it until it was paid in full. Next attack the second lowest in the same manner plus pay what you were paying on the smaller now former debt. On and on, paying what you were paying on now paid off debts on remaining debt until all debts are gone.

The other method some friends used was via "0" interest credit card promotions. One good friend paid off around $50k in debt with those. Before one expires sign up with another one (or more). He probably wound up using a half dozen different "0" interest credit cards but got'er done.

Like anything else worth having, though, either way requires serious diligence and sacrifice.

(Extra income from a side job and/or OT can help a whole bunch in paying off debt a good bit sooner, too.)

Steelhead fishing and deer hunting are as good as it gets, and absolutely, not chance of skin cancer !

I've been doing that backwards, paid off the big one first, down to nothing, it also had the highest interest. Then I slam-dunked a smaller one tho in just three months, now I'm working on the second biggest one. Been working on the side too.

The zero interest credit card route sounds like a clever idea.

You can take out a loan against your 401k and repay it back in 60 months at about 1.5%

Never do this.....unless you have a bad prognosis .

Does your ex get a slice of your teachers retirement ?

The reason I ask is an old friend's ex of over 20 years sued for half of his defined retirement plan money in their divorce and would've got it too except her and her boyfriend had plans and couldn't wait until he retired so she settled for a up-front cash sum of $10k.

My son has been facing major life and health issues through no fault of his own, seriously affecting his present and future earning potential. The sooner I can clear the decks, the sooner I can be in a better position to provide more security for him and my granddaughter. At this point ongoing house/renovation payments are inevitable, and my present vehicles ain't likely to run long enough for me to accumulate a cash payment for a replacement. So a vehicle finance is also inevitable.

Pretty sure I can save the cash for a motorcycle and a small sailboat tho.

She could, but I could go after her assets too.

Not a thing wrong with it.

At first I thought you were trying to get out of debt. My bad. Now I see you are really looking for ways to add to your debt while taking 3-month vacations and spending money you don't have on luxury items. You have not learned any hard lessons yet.

OK, I weren’t aware a house and transportation were luxury items. And if I take a net loss this summer checking off a bucket list item while setting an enduring example for the next generation that is just a real minor fraction of what I’ve paid off already.

Motorcycle and sailboat? Should be able to score a used Harley-something and a used West Wight Potter fer about $5,000 each.

I can live with that level of fiscal irresponsibility and cleared debt, it would respresent maybe 18 months of saving while still paying on a vehicle loan and the house note

And hey it’s two months, it don’t cost much to live off a bicycle , I could do the whole thing for $3,000 easy, subtract from that what I’d spend on food and gas at home anyway, plus two months of essentially no utilities at home. With outside work tween now and then I got most of it covered before I start.

How low do ya gotta go to hit rock bottom?

If the only thing you change is the interest rate on the debt, nothing wrong with that. It's not going to make much difference in how fast you pay it off, but can help a little. But that's all. A little.

Forget 401K loans. Why would you put your retirement up for collateral if you now have an unsecured loan?
Forget heloc's and other secured debt. Why put your home at risk if the debt is unsecured now?

Now, about that car. What makes you think you need a NEW car? Ever see how those farking things depreciate? What's wrong with a 4 year old low mileage, half price car?

I'm assuming you know some hombres in the neighborhood that do roofing? That'll cut the cost in half. Get her done on a weekend, have a barbeque with some cabrito and camarones a la diabla. Same with the reno. Small bites. Pay as you go. Debit only makes it more expensive.

Now, about that rabid (ex) wife? Can't help you there, but I'm all ears if you have some pointers....

I started drawing my 401K a few years ago. When tax time came the accountant said I had to put it back in an IRA or give it to the government.

I don't know how I'm ever going to get to spend it.

All good advice on the house, ‘cept ideally I’d want a steel roof, I dunno that Jose and crew could do that.

I own two Toyotas with an aggregate mileage of 600,000 miles, ain’t had a car payment in six years, one owner (me).

What I would like tho is something I could drive around the country with confidence for a period of years.

A clean Toyota or Honda with about 50,000 or less on the clock could work, towards that end I’ve been browsing CarMax.

Rabid ex’s? Chit happens is the best advice I can give. Before all this she gave me the best years of her life, and she was hot. Left me with a son and a granddaughter too, pretty sure between us I got the best out of the deal.

Yeah, I looked at steel roofs before we replaced ours this year.

I wasn't sold. Then we had a huge hail storm that damaged about 15% of the roofs two counties over. That made "quick once over" shingles a heck of a lot better idea, since roofers were suddenly the prettiest girl at the dance.

From talking to people and roofers, there's about as much repairs and headache with the metal roofs as with a premium quality roof. So, a quick once over with a 30 year warranty.

And, hey, 63 plus 30 is more than 82...... just saying

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In doing this, you are actually paying yourself a small amount of interest.

Yep

I took a once in a lifetime safari to Africa during a downturn in the market.

I don't regret pulling money out of my 401k for my use one bit.

The only thing I knew/know about debt is, I HATE IT, and would work myself to death to kill it.

All good advice again, and tks for the heads-up on the steel roof thing.

A sad thing happened to the roofer on our street. The guy down at the corner, when he was a punk teenager, poisoned the roofer’s dogs so that he could break into the guy’s car and take his sound system. When the roofer got wind of who did it, he severely beat said punk teenager.

The Cops got wind of it and arrested the roofer who was on probation for DWIs. The roofer got locked up and his wife left him, took the kids with her tho the guy’s kids liked him well enough. Ain’t seen him him since, which is a pity because he did a really good job on the house next door.

This does bring up a point about 30 year warranties, ya ain’t gonna get one from Jose, no telling where he’ll be.

Borrowing against a 401k most often reduces the total investment's balance which is earning interest at a much better rate than what one pays themselves for the loan, during the term of the loan. It impacts future earnings from the 401k greatly.
You might not be able to make contributions during a part of that term. Affects taxable income.
Payments are made with after tax dollars.
If there is a job loss affecting the 401k plan, the loan might have to be satisfied in full.
Much to consider before going that route.

Get focused. Stay focused. It takes hard work to get out of debt. It takes that same hard work to stay that way.

Staying in debt pushes your retirement event horizon out further and further. Simply make a plan and stick to it. In your situation, money spent on strong professional counsel would be dollars well spent! Get a pro in your corner now. Prepare for retirement. You will look back and be so glad you did.

Without getting into details, it mostly weren’t me who got myself into this hole tho I watched it happen 🙄 and if we had split the debt I woulda been free and clear about now. Hey this whole divorce thing didn’t happen and we could be debt free, renovated home, and a truck in the driveway about now.

But it did. Chit happens.

Since the day she up and left my debt has been dropping like a rock, it just has a ways to fall is all. Ain’t gonna blame her, I let it happen.

I live on a bicycle this summer and debt still falls the whole time, ideally at the same rate. Only thing I miss out on is the income I coulda made working over the summer. I can live with that.

Retirement ain’t an issue since I ain’t actually worked for a living in more’n thirty years 🙂

Then stick to your plan.

If you want that freedom from debt earlier, get busy increasing the paybacks. That will involve increasing income if you are relying only on a fixed revenue stream. Find those dollars NOW while you are earning and able. NOBODY knows what retirement may bring regarding ability to work or future medical costs.

Moving debt around is a shell game. Get aggressive in getting it met. Keep up the good work!!!!!!

I worked with a guy who's wife maxed out every credit card she could get hold of without him knowing it. His house was paid for but he had to borrow on about 2/3rds of the value of it to pay off the debt. At the time he told me about it he said that he would have retired 4 years ago if not for that. He was still married to her.

I wouldn't have been.

Refinancing now would save me about $200/month interest to begin, which I assume averages out to $100 month by the time I hit zero balance. I concur about possible medical costs, tho I do have pretty good insurance with cancer and cardiac provisions added on as well as income replacement insurance if I become unable to work. Income replacement don’t kick in for 60 days, but after all these years of not calling in sick I got more’n twice that in accrued sick leave

I discovered that earning more money really helps.

Teaching is really a part time job anyway. Get a second job, or else find a more lucrative career where you actually produce something of value.

I prob’ly would, if that was all it was. In part because retirement ain’t something I’m wanting or looking forward to, and not because of money.

I really never GAS about money, never paid attention.

Now I understand my indifference was actually negligence.

Consolidation interest savings MUST go towards paying off the principal debt. It is not a savings you can retain for other wants, it MUST be used to expedite payoff. That's the benefit of it.
In other words, keep the payout the same level as before. Or greater! Payout should be as much as you can possibly pay to include all discretionary income. No bike. No boat.

Get that debt gone. Then focus on improving your major investment which is your home. Fix it up and pay it off aggressively.

No looking backwards! Only look forward! It is NEVER too late to start! You will feel a great sense of individual accomplishment you are missing in your life!

Good luck with it Birdie. I'm going on the value of farmland. It's rare indeed if anyone can buy land with cash on hand.

Interest has everything to do with what you can pay. 5% x $10,000 is the same as 10% x $5000

12 hours/day when school is in session, plus many Saturdays. I reckon got more’n 2,500 former high school students out there by now. I’m pretty sure most all of ‘em would say I produced something of value

I will freely confess tho that a huge reward over three decades as been summers off, I always called it early retirement.

I'm not materialistic either. But if my wife had secretly indentured me to spending several more years of my life in a factory, I wouldn't have been able to be around her.

I know a lot of teachers and none of them work anywhere near 12 hours a day, and never a Saturday. They also get the summer off. Most spend it lying around a pool or at the beach bitching about not making as much money as they deserve.

I work with bright kids with dedicated parents, Hispanics mostly, and Whites, Blacks, Asians, the kind of people many Campfire people swear don’t exist. They got so much extracurricular stuff going on of all sorts that our day basically begins around 4:00 pm when school is over. I try to be out by 8pm.

Prob’ly contributed to the end of my marriage.

Contractual term debt would be comparable to being on parole and "Murphy" is your parole officer.

Point being, once in debt the old, "sh*t happens", thing seems to kick in and start hammering the debtor more frequently, which generally leads to more debt to deal with critical needs and emergencies.

there is good debt.....and there is bad debt...…..bb

like good taxes, and bad taxes???

The downside to debt is having debts

not quite.... :)….bob

You obviously are disciplined enough to be paying down your debt. I see no downside for you to consolidate and pay it off faster. Yes, you may take a minimal hit on your credit score initially because of the new loan. But, that will most likely be due to the lag in reporting by your creditors to the credit agencies. i.e: that you've created a debt by paying off others.

IF you can pay your debt off faster and save money, why not.

When you get that paid off, start using your revolving credit to work for you, instead of against you. For example, I have an American Airlines platinum card. I charge almost all of my daily and online purchases to that card. Then, when I see a few hundred dollars accumulate, I make a payment for that amount. Meanwhile, I'm racking up American Airlines air miles. Have almost 200K right now. That's a little over 3 RT business class tickets to Europe (60K) or 6 domestic (30K). And, the banks are always thinking of ways to hand you big chunks of miles for minimal effort and exposure.

There are many ways to leverage your good credit. This is just one way I use mine.

There are a few possible downsides to consider
1 - People often feel like they have done something to get out of debt when they consolidate. In the long run, the interest rate isn't the problem. True, some small dollars can be saved, but some people feel they have taken a big step in solving the problem when they consolidate. As long as you understand that consolidating really does vey little to solve the big problem and you do not lose your focus on debt payment, its ok.

2 - some debts have benefits on their own, such as, federally insured school loans are forgiven upon death (I think). If you consolidate them, that status could go away and your estate will have to settle the debt if you pass. Some personal loans and car loans are covered by insurance that pays them off if you suffer long term disability or death. If that is already in place, you may lose that if you consolidate.

3 - Don't pay a consolidation company money for the service. Just get a personal loan to consolidate it on your own. Paying anyone for the service is just costing you more money.

I admire you for being a teacher. I work for a very large one in maintenance. Teachers earn every nickel they get. Most get there early and stay late. They get summers off, but need that time to recharge their batteries. I have Texas Teachers retirement too, over 30 years also. You get 2.3 percent of your best 5 year average. I’m one of the few left on the three year average. If a teacher makes 35 years, she will get 80 per cent I guess it depends on how long you live if this is better than a 401k. People who work for state hospitals get teachers retirement too. A high dollar school administrator or a doctor will have a hell of a pension. I’ve made a lot of overtime, it’s helped my retirement tremendously. I will get a little over 2400.00 for each year of service. Again, thanks for being a teacher, thankless job for sure.

You don't have to use consolidation companies. As you said, personal loans are good. Other credit card companies offer pretty good deals, too. You can pay minimal interest up front, then have 0% interest for the term of the loan.

? You don't teach arithmetic do you?

Out of curiosity, what kind of interest rate did you get on the time certificate? Is that basically a CD?

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!! Let's hope not.

Good debt is when someone owes me?

You misunderstand Ramsey if you think that. He wants people to give up their life (which has spent them into a hole) for 2 to 3 years max. Then you have all of your income to facilitate living the way you want to live. Its basic and its simple to help those who are not interested in getting deep into the financial part of life. They want to keep it simple and be effective. Ramsey understands that its not a math game, its not about the numbers. Its about the emotions of it all, ending the habits and changing your thinking about debt and life. Its a very good program for general use. I think people can be very happy on it too, if they are driven to succeed at their goals. I did not use Dave Ramsey. I have the same line of thinking, and took the long way out. It was almost 10 years of paying extra on the vehicles, and eventually the house. Finished the house this week.

Yep. I’d be curious how they make most of it. I have heard Dave Ramsey speak of how many people default in 0 interest loans, etc. statistically they always make a lot of money since people don’t actually make the payments in time and the interest goes from zero to super high.

My guess is on average the folks doing the consolidation bank on folks not keeping up or changing their ways. Because folks don’t change.

Birdwatcher, my advice is to read Ramsey’s book. There is more to it than interest rates, it’s psychological. Folks spend more money when using credit. Folks spend less when they actually pay cash. Folks change behavior and are more likely to stick to the plan when they see results, which is why Dave recommends the “snowball”, paying the debts smallest to largest.

Good luck.

Those who consolidate debt,statistically get right back in.

You also take that money you borrowed out of the investments, losing the ability to make 10% a year in the market on average. The read danger comes in the loan being due in full in 30 days upon employment ending.

Right! You obviously did something wrong if you are overwhelmed with debt. Ramsey's plan is to change the behavior that caused the situation as much as it is to get out of debt. Staying out of debt is just as important.

that defiantly ranks at the top...….buying a house.....buying income property.....etc...….bob

Oh, you mean the 4 to 8 thing.....

I GET to school around 8am, if I can get out by 8pm I can wake up in time to roll out the door by 6am, time enough to put me n a quick ten miles on the bike with a lifting iron stop at the gym on my way in.

The real work at work begins after school lets out, helping bright kids with their projects. Making it to State and Nationals is a regular occurrence, one kid one year was invited to present in Morocco and Czechoslovakia . I didn’t get to go, an Admin went.

But of course we are a public school and therefore we suck

Doubtful in this case. The ironic thing is, my debt has been falling yet my spending habits are about the same as they were before.

I listen to Ramsey all the time.

I snowballed backwards, took on the biggest one first because it was also the highest interest, I figured interest is interest, doesn’t matter whom I’m paying it to.

I’m glad some else’s experience with teachers is the same as mine 🙂

Tks, the concept of managing money, and credit, is something I shoulda thought about decades ago.

a 8 hr work day then 4 hrs after school adds up to 12 for me.

It seems like a lot of people don’t like teachers or the idea of them getting a pension.

I don't begrudge anybody for working the system.

In Minnesota teacher pension packages are pretty ridiculous though. Crazy, good for you or GFY...not sure which.

Whatever, work it.

https://www.dinkytown.net

RIGHT

If you need Dave Ramsey to figure out your finances, then you have bigger issues anyway.

I was referring to the acquisition of debt. As in spending more money than you have of your own. Simple arithmetic will lead you to the conclusion of the certainty of disaster if you keep it up for very long. Spend 99% and you prosper. Spend 101% and you fail. There is a huge industry built on the backs of people willing to make slaves of themselves. I did the arithmetic when I was in my 20's and decided to stay out of their trap.

No....I meant the spend more than you make thing.

Ramsey doesn't do anything for your finances, he teaches about behavior.

You don't listen very well, because you did right assbackward of what he teaches.

I think Ramsey might be best for people who lack Birdy's self discipline. They need to tackle the small one to get a "win" under their belt soon. Number wise it makes sense to pay down the balance on the highest interest first. IF there is the discipline to keep after it.

Ramsey advice is good for people who spent their way into it from lack of discipline, Birdy way sounds good if one has the discipline.

Texas teacher retirement ain’t bad, but it ain’t extravagant like some other states, same thing with the salaries. I’m making mid 60’s right now, ain’t gonna increase much at this end of the salary scale. If I retired tomorrow I’d draw about 75% of that.

Substitute teaching (which ain’t hard if ya got a pulse) four days a week would add maybe $10,000 a year.

There, that oughtta kill a lot of teacher envy

The saving grace is that the cost of living is cheap down here.

wait till you are 70 1/2 and there is a thing called a retired minimum distribution, no free ride.

Right, but most folks who are disciplined and can operate a calculator do not end up in the position of the average caller to the Dave Ramsey Show.

I think there’s a great deal of substance to Dave Ramsey’s debt snowball theory. You start with small debts and knock them out, then move on up the list. Sense of progress as you go, which keeps one motivated. As he frequently says, it’s about behavior more than finance.

I can also totally believe that people who take debt consolidation loans are likely to end up back in the same mess again down the road.

Birdwatcher, in your case it sounds you already know all this and want to go consolidation route. If you think it’ll save you money and you’re disciplined in your spending habits then go for it. But if I was in your shoes, a teacher who has a summer break coming up, I think I’d focus more on utilizing my summer break to earn more money. When it comes to paying down debt, increasing your income is always going to be the best tool...

Well, the good news is I could buy a new Tacoma on the space I got on my credit cards 🙂. I sorely could use a new vehicle but the old ones still run.

In 2016, even after I had assumed all this debt, I took my son to see the Isle of Man TT motorcycle races. Even though we stayed with my relatives or camped during that two weeks, that was still a major expense. More so because I put in another 1,500 miles and 40 days on a bicycle around the UK, Ireland and France . I had accumulated the cash over a two-year beforehand working outside jobs but that cash could have gone against debt. Not putting against debt cost me six months of time required to pay my current indebtedness off.

It was worth it, in spades, the trip of a lifetime. I would call that good debt.

Anyways, there is ONE good thing about being crushed by debt.....

Ya know how life just flies by?

Not when you’re paying off debt

Time passes so slow it’s like you’re friggin’ immortal.

Something you might want to give a thought to, is long or even short term care insurance, you mentioned that your interest in debt consolidation is to help out your son. I have no idea of his health issues, but if it may involve long or short term care, an insurance policy paying for his care my be the best use of your funds now, to pay for his care in the years to come.

If you can combine several high interest debts into a single lower interest debt the only downside I see is having enough self decipline to not get into more high interest debt. I'll 2nd the idea of credit unions. Dave Ramsey has some good ideas on handling debt. Good Luck in this.

Taking lavish vacations while buried in debt is crazy.

Yep, when you are just t reading water, don' t put a 50# rock on your head.Decision like this is what put people in deeper debt

Very simple math. Don't spend more than you take in. If you can take in more revenue to reduce your debt, then do so.

Consolidate into a low interest rate, short term loan. One check to clean up higher interest, longer term debt. Make extra payments on it. It's all about self-discipline.

How close are you to retiring and do you plan on working to supplement your pension?

An interesting insight. I would have thought that producing law abiding, productive citizens was a pretty valuable product and accomplishment.

A financial calculator is your friend. Use it with your numbers and it will tell you the best way to proceed.

At the same time, take a hard look at what got you here in the first place.

Not all debt is bad. Debt interest that is lower than your expected ROR on capital, should not be paid off fast.

Credit card debt will never ever fall into this category.

Conservative thinking states parents should be doing that job, not a government employee following public union guidelines.
Plenty of non-HS graduates or secondary education graduates are law abiding and productive.


All debt is to be considered bad, regardless of the cost compared to the return. Greater returns are retained and put to future use when there is no lender leaching off a profit for the service. Even in the corporate world.

Taking on ANY debt requires DEEP research and due diligence. The entire lending/banking industry has slowly bent public opinion in their favor, and lots of people (both individual and corporate) have fallen to the idea that one can borrow their way to success. It keeps these powerful lenders in a highly profitable business model.

Not at all envious, I do ok myself. But 60K is very generous compensation for teaching school.

WTM45: I like the way you think.

Agreed, but to do otherwise would allow the chaos wrought by someone else to drag down and further blight both our lives. That trip was long in the planning.

Lavish? You might not have toured on a bicycle much, it’s like homeless on wheels, sleep out where darkness finds you, tho I was obliged to stay seven nights of the forty in hotels. Total expenses for two weeks overseas for him, two months and 1,500 miles for me, two return airfares, food, travel everything was shy of $8,000 out of pocket for me.

If I had waited that trip still wouldn’t have happened and shifting circumstance/work schedules might have made it not possible. The other end of this debt, I can clear that in six months.

My son was hammered right out of the starting gate: Diabetes, cancer and a divorce he didn’t want, all by age 25. I will say this though; with everything I’ve seen him weep, never seen him whine. Economically he is constrained by paying child support of course, but also because he cannot move because then he would not see his daughter as easily as he does now. He could make more money if he relocated to Austin.,Child support and not being able to relocate ain’t the actual end of the world of course.

More worrisome to me are the cumulative effects of diabetes. His grandfather on his moms side, retired Air Force officer, lost a foot to diabetes, went on dialysis and died before age 60. Both his uncles on his mom’s side are diabetic. One became legally blind by age 40 and now at 50 is already on dialysis. The other brother is less heavily afflicted and on oral meds.

So I dunno how things will go for him. The only positive thing out of this is Ol’Granpa here gets to cover for him most weekends on days when he has custody but has to work.

Long term insurance for my son is certainly a good idea.

You're an idiot.

Ya prob’ly.

Assuredly.

A cause for optimism here is that, properly speaking, it weren’t my spending habits that got me here, tho it didn’t happen overnight, and I watched it happen.

As far as my job, since I don’t really work for a living and my contract runs shy of 190 days a year, retirement as such ain’t an issue. God willing I’m hoping for at least another nine years. Should I expire before age 70 my son and granddaughter are well provided for by term life. The house is not far from paid-off. House flippers have invaded the neighborhood and mostly decent families are buying the finished product. Gives me reason to believe this might continue to be a livable neighborhood.

The plan is to clear debt. Renovate the house inside and out to make it livable for another 60 years. Note; we ain’t taking better homes and gardens here, just plumbing, electrics and drywall. In a perfect world all of that is paid off by the time I’m 70. At that point I’d have the option of handing the keys to my son and hitting the road. At that point property taxes might be twice what they are now or about $500-600/month.

In a perfect world too I retire while still able to ride a bicycle. I would like to spend a year following the seasons north and south across North America. You can live like a king doing this on $2,000/month. If my knees ain’t up to it, then on a motorcycle or on four wheels. Other than that a year in Costa Rica just to watch the ebb and flow of migrating birds.

Oh, and whores and alchohol of course.

When/if I get all this done me and Deflave are gonna compare notes. He is gonna send me his resume and I am gonna send him a photo of my schlong.

If you think a public school teacher produces anything of value, you are sorely mistaken. They occupy a position and are a drain on the economy.

Mid sixties isn’t all that much compensation for a college education (most teachers have a masters degree, many a doctorate) and 30 years experience. There are plumbers, electricians, and AC tech in this school district that make upper 80’s, some as much as 110,000 with overtime. They would cshit a white blackbird if they knew this, but it is what it is.

at one point in my long career in the financial world, i had a big desk, big title, and other things. And i had the decision making authority in the bank for debt consolidation loans, among other forms of lending. Looking back at that part of my career, there are a lot of building in prescott, and now long established businesses, that are there because i made the right decisions where there wasn't much to go on, and made the loans. Debt consolidation? Lots of times it was a problem for the people, debt, because of spending habits and the way they thought. If they got a little free room, they would load up again. I still find it true to this day. People continually complaining about being broke, but impulse buyers.
I did make debt consolidation loans where it made sense, but it was with a good understanding of the people, and the debt situation was not a result of their spending habits.
Since then i have gone on to and still do manage quite a bit of money for people.
And interesting to see those that have a LOT of money.
old habits die hard. I have a family member easily worth ten to fifteen million. He use to go to the horse track to dig out baling wire from the trash cans rather than spend a few bucks at home depot.
I know of a recently departed lady, she was a horder and absolutely meticulous at tracking everything. To include a box of buttons, all labeled as to when bought, price, and what they went to.
Records by the day going back to the 40's. Compulsive behavior? yes. But understandable. She came of age dirt poor at the beginning of the depression. I have storage places full of stuff going back to the 1800's, never threw anything away, neither did my parents or their parents. Don't know when you might need it. If you had it, you didn't need to spend money.

The other item i might mention is learning or knowing how to spend within your means. And not having unrealistic goals. I know a retired couple that have a higher net worth that the doctor she worked for. But she didn't have multiple marriages and expensive cars. And they live well, but low cost. I watched at the beginning a 2000ira investment grow to a liquid net worth of over 600k.
Ramsey is right on many things, being debt free is one of them.
I have always been afraid of that wolf at the door. Thus no debt, i own my house, i bought it to live in not as an investment, and always having food available. Which means food storage, canning, all kinds of things. I was a prepper before they invented the word. i have known a lot of people as described above. And i have been there at their passing, and watching their fool kids blow the inheritance within a couple of years of having recieved it. That's the difference in generations.

You are in denial.

I've had nothing to contribute to this thread but I want to thank all those that have.
I've never had any debt and don't plan on getting any.
As a result I never understood the mind set of those that do.

This thread has offer pretty good insight of the thought process of those that keep and maintain continual debt.

Thanks, carry on...........

I’ve had a lot, paid it off, buy everything cash now. It sure is better to go cash and carry, save up for something, then buy it. I bought a new truck Saturday, salesman( former Marine, won’t buy anything that sells commission, unless it’s from a vet) ask how we wanted to finance the truck. Wifey told him”We ain’t”. We are saving for her a new vehicle now. I can’t tell you how much I used to worry about our debts.

I worked for a land developer when I was 15, clearing, grubin', painting, etc.
He sold me a building lot for 900 bucks. Two years later I sold it and was able to buy two more with the profit.
By the time I was 19 I'd worked my way up to having enough money from selling lots to buy a beat to schit old house, it needed everything but the price was right.
By the time I was 22 everything was fixed, I sold that house and bought two more beat to schit old houses.

First car when I was 16 was a beat to hell 65 Mustang fast back, it was 1976 and I paid 25 bucks for it...
I fixed it up......

Just the habits and states of mind we get ourselves into I suppose.. I've never broken my habit.

Maybe, it really doesn’t matter at this point.

Made me think tho, what did I spend on me? Not us, me.

Last time I bought a vehicle for my own use was in 1994: a BMW R100 gs/pd, $12,000, sold that lemon off in 1996, paid off the note.

I have no expensive vices, I do not drink smoke or gamble. 90% of my recreational time over the last 30 years has been walking around in the woods with binoculars, a handgun and dog or two. Most of the other 10% was bicycles. Prob’ly spent $3,000 over thirty years on hunting/fishing licenses, maybe $1,000 actually hunting and fishing (not much).

Again over thirty years.... binocs $3,000, bicycles $3,000, firearms $7,000.

Still spend about $100/mo eating at Subway or TexMex.

We prob’ly spent $7,000/year on vacations, since the split I ain’t been anywhere since that $8,000 2016 blowout, last time before that was a $1,500 bicycle trip to NY 2014.

OTOH my utility bills are down about $200/now

Other than not having a woman in the house, my material lifestyle has changed not much at all, my debt has been dropping like rock tho.

If it helps any, to the best of my knowledge my son has no credit cards, neither does my visiting nephew, the Army Lt.

birdy, i have been in debt. Not now, but i have been.
I have leveraged on non real estate debt up to about 150k at various points. To buy assets at under market value or i thought would appreciate.
also to work interest rate spreads, where my cost of funds was maybe 2% but i could get four or five percent in something else.
my wife doesn't understand this very well, i compare it to picking up a 20 dollar bill off the ground.
If you could buy a spencer rifle for 700bucks, would you do it? of course.
But i am over the hill age wise now, but not completely gone, there are some auctions i am following to see if i can pick off some things.
debt should only be incurred to increase your asset base, without taking on too much debt you can't pay it off at will.
when i did go into debt, offsetting accounts allowed me to pay it off at will.

well you do have a few vices. Those old smokepoles might be considered a vice. And that tent of yours i still remember. neatest thing i ever saw. I just about bought my wife a mug to drink coffee with. British army issue circa 1914. This is one of my vices.

when i was at the bank, and chasing my wife of now over 40 years, i approved her with an executive approval for a $300 dollar visa card.
she hasn't worked outside the house for over 30 years, the credit limit on that card is now $15,000. Other than i trust her, that would probably scare me otherwise.

Finally, something on this thread worth talking about!




Like you haven't tried.

Same, nearly, I'm 56 and am NOT going back into debt, had some for awhile buying land, farms, equipment etc, but have been debt free for 13 years and aim to stay that way.

Anyone that answers this without knowing the particulars of how much debt you have, how many different creditors, terms, rates etc. is blowing smoke.

You are right that the downside is a relapse into old spending habits so consolidation ends up increasing debt for many.

Get crap paid off asap is obviously best. Math says to pay off the highest interest rate first. Ramsey says the smallest because he deals with the general population that usually has no will power so they need to see quick results to reinforce their efforts of paying off debt.

This introspective thread has got me to pondering how on earth I got to this point.

Pretty sure my ex was leading me around by the schlong for more’n twenty years.

Mid sixties is comfortable, even prosperous in San Antonio if ya got two people making that, as we did.

With regards to my ex here’s the puzzle: Over a short period of time her personality did a 180 and she just up and left. Not just me but everyone. Her family, her son, her granddaughter, everyone. Her family was always a close-knit family and she left them too. My son is an only child, grew up very close to his mom, after he was grown and out the door they would meet regularly for lunch. Without warning that all stopped. Minimal interest in her granddaughter, months at a time without seeing her. Didn’t even give my son her address when she changed apartments.

This was the woman who was the rock of those around her, the one you gave power of attorney to to look after your kids if anything should happen to you. Just all stopped, left everyone. Broke her mom’s heart. If it’s drugs I ain’t seen it, there ain’t no steady man, or woman. Still works at an occupation where she is drug tested regular. Stilll pays her half of the 401K we set up for our son when he was young.

Ain’t mad at her for leaving me, that happens, tho for 20+ years we were rarely apart.

Just can’t figure the rest is all, it’s like she suddenly lost her capacity for normal human attachment. Her family figures she has gotta be mentally ill, I dunno what possessed her tho I wonder about that too.

I’ve met some of her present social circle, I aint envious, it’s not like she met a guy with a nicer house and a boat. More’n a few bitter middle-aged women that circle, some of whom encouraged her to leave.

So, there it is.

....but it wasn't your fault.

I've seen this happen quite a lot lately. The only common theme I can find is that it could perhaps be tied to menopause.

Never said it wasn't.

That's been my impression.

I'm hoping she reconciles with her son and the kid, she could outlive me by 20 years at which time the family unit will be just the three of them.

It's a waste of time wondering what motivates women. A big part of them are born crazy and age just makes it worse.

52 year old woman where I work divorced her husband out of the blue last year. Blew me away she is the kindest sweetest woman u would ever meet. One of the other girls told me that she "wanted to fall in love again and feel butterflies in her stomach". I was like really she ripped her family apart and took half her husbands stuff over that? From what I understand her husband was pretty tore up about it. She even still has a kid in high school. Like I said it blew me away. Totally out of character for her. Women will confuse me till the day I die.

So the plan is this...

Pay off the house, pay off the renovations by age 70. If she's back, and reliable, a regular mom/grandmother an all that, I will have the option of taking a reduced retirement so she gets it for life after I pass, the point being whatever her situation will be the son and grandkid are all better set up if she has a bigger income stream. I know she's still paying into her 401k too because it still draws from what used to be our joint account.

At that point all the kid will need me for is to cosign for loans.

I move to Ghana and start a family just to pi$$ of Bristoe.

So,...some woman plunged your ass into debt then left you high and dry,...and your thought processes are how to get everything paid down so you can leave her in good financial condition if she comes back?

Man,...I don't really have any life advice for people. I don't feel qualified, generally speaking.

But ya don't have to be Dr. fuggin' Phil to know that's a bad plan.

That's like having a tick fall off your toe and you take up eating iron pills and liver in case it comes back.

Dude, Saudi Catholicism, 57 virgins in Heaven.....


....could be worse, we could be Mormon.

You did post this....

Flipping genius idea!!!

Oh, so you'll be taking yours with you then.....



We're talking about a woman who went under the knife each time after three miscarriages trying to have more children, only quit when she ran out of fallopian tubes. When she was herself she rocked, slept with me more'n 8,000 times (I kept score ).

Cost of living is cheap in my village back in Ghana, even less in North Korea.

I'm talking about the cosigning part. You can't get yourself above water, but aspire to drag your kid down there with you.

"Cost of living is cheap in my village back in Ghana, even less in North Korea."

And as an added bonus, no need for Jenny Craig in either locale

Where on earth did you get that idea?

I'm halfway up to the surface already, rising faster all the time. All I have to do is continue to live at the same material level I have been forever, except for the A/C and hot water of course.

The irony is that I have a whole friggin' house in my name. But I don't live there I just camp out in it.

Being "The Rock" can become an awfully heavy and draining burden. Everyone else gets to go on enjoying their free time and live their life's whims while "The Rock" is left behind to carry the 'load'.

As a wise old friend once noted, over time relationships often become more and more one sided and one spouse winds up sacrificing their own life desires, goals, and dreams more and more in lieu of the those of the other spouse. Sometimes it happens from the very get-go.

I can't help but wonder when someone brags about how good they have it and how great their relationship with their spouse is, if the spouse's honest truthful version of their relation would be anywhere near as great.

One thing my parents did was make me take out small loans as a teenager and use a cc a little and pay it off every month, I had pretty dang good credit by the time I got out of college. I was just in a honda dealership and they said my score was the highest they've ever seen. I've never borrowed too much and always paid my bills on time and having those extra years of credit as a teenager helped with the length of my credit history. Hope to have house paid off in about 8 years, before my oldest gets to college. Other than that, I rarely have more than 1k or 2k in debt between my lowes/hd/citibank cards and most of those purchase were done when they would offer no interest specials. I've got two different retirement accounts setup plus I'll get a small pension from my tenure when I worked for the state. Still worries me that it may not be enough. I probably have more 22s than I need to but I usually won't buy a gun unless I have full confidence I can get my money back out of it and then some.

I have a dang brother in law in his mid 30s and my mother had to cosign with him on a used 2008 f150. I wasn't real happy about that. I see a lot of folks living outside their means and there is no telling just how much debt they are in....but hey...they look cool in that 60k truck with their black rims, costas, and cablez.

Find a widow with a paid off house. Marry her. Sell your house. Buy a new car with the equity.

While all of this is true, with women around menopause, there seems to be a social trend to create this narrative, even when it's not there. Several of them will create a "woe-is-me" clique that becomes a destructive echo-chamber that just escalates to a divorce cheer leading club.

Women seem to be particularly able to latch on every detail that supports their desired narrative, and ignore everything that disagrees with it.

A more serious answer...

It don't cost me much to have a good time, IF she becomes a reg'lar mother/grandmother again, her assets become their assets, or at least available to them in times of need. Or in an unlikely scenario, she herself becomes much less likely to be a financial drain on them.

All academic anyway at this point, if it turns out I do keep the whole retirement then I get to eat breakfast at McDonald's with the other old fogeys EVERY day

Can't be true. Those 8,000 times? I finished first almost every time (I kept score ).

I still think the widow with a paid off house is the best avenue. Maybe even a widow with a paid off house and some acreage.

I'm serious.

Dave Ramsey makes a million dollars a year,..and you won't get advice that good from him.

We just did a mortgage to get out of Credit card debt and get some cash for several other things. It was a big step, but it is the only way to get control if you have a lot of debt with high interest rates. We were not getting anywhere and were only treading water and still were losing money on the interest payments every month. Now we have some control and can buy some time to live a little. It is nice to have an affordable payment and not getting screwed by Visa, etc. If you have a steady income, there's no reason not to get rid of 17% interest loans.

I can't recall meeting even one attractive widow with a paid-off house and some acreage my whole life.

Perhaps I have been looking for love in all the wrong places.