I read somewhere, maybe the LA Times, that in 2017 there were more than 70,000 drug overdose deaths in the U.S., with around 50,000 of those deaths coming from Opioids. The killer opioid appears to be Fentanyl, most of which is manufactured in China and illegally smuggled into the U.S.

It seems as though that many seemingly preventable deaths would trigger a national outrage, but I don't read or hear about any real way to combat voluntary addiction. Most addiction starts as a voluntary action, right? Think about it, 70,000 death in one year is more than the total number of American military personnel KIA during the past 60 years.

One of my friends' sons has been an opioid addict for nearly 20 years, starting when he was prescribed Oxycontin after surgery in 2000. He has been through more addiction treatment programs than I care to recall, and has never been clean and sober for more than 18 months before relapsing. He has lost jobs, wrecked a marriage that was already on thin ice, lied to, cheated, and stole from all of his family and friends. His addiction has torn his family apart and his parents walk the tightrope of helping on one side or enabling on the other side. His Mother once told me that she wished that he would die and that his death would provide closure for the family. Instead, he lives on, a bomb waiting to relapse and drag his family back onto the roller-coaster ride of addiction.and recovery.

Do you think that the Chinese are purposely pumping Fentanyl into the U.S. as a means to destroy us by our own hand?

Well, there's no outrage because the govt loves people dependent on them so they can grow their programs and skim the profits off.

As to whether the Chinese would intentionally dump fent here to undermine our society, sure, weaken anyone you can and win by running at half steam rather than having to overtake your adversaries at full strength.

No. You were all warned of this [bleep] decades ago and everybody said it was modern medicine at it's best . Enjoy.

Yeah, that and they got Trump elected. They are going to bring us down from the inside.

You know there are Chinese registered on this forum.

FWIW, one guy's been payin attention:

https://freebeacon.com/issues/xi-tells-trump-china-will-schedule-fentanyl/

"President Xi, in a wonderful humanitarian gesture, has agreed to designate Fentanyl as a Controlled Substance, meaning that people selling Fentanyl to the United States will be subject to China's maximum penalty under the law," White House Press Secretary Sarah Huckabee Sanders announced in a Saturday night statement.

I'm always worried about getting F'd up Cola.....



Ace

I suspect it is the money angle, like always. We all have family members who are addicted to something, drugs, or booze. Some of it seems to be a genetic trail, and mental health (still genetic) plays a large role, I could nebver figure if it is the booze or the personality quirk that comes first but suspect the personality thing.

Wife has chronic pain and needs the meds. operations have failed and more are improbable to do. But she is lumped in with all the others.

I think China (government) has no more skin in the game than the governments of Mexico or whereever. Look atMexican/Colombia cartels and it is again money driven.

Ignorance on display.

They can all die. There isn't one person today that doesn't know that drug use is dangerous. We are overpopulated and purging the stupid using their own weaknesses is a good start.

There's no doubt the Chinese know what's happening in this nation and they certainly don't make any attempt to stem the flow of these drugs.

President Trump has addressed this issue with the Chinese government.He's the only president that has done that since this opioid crisis began.

I've stated this before but it's worth repeating.This is the kind of unbridled greed that occurs when Godless people are introduced to capitalism.

Yeah, it's a money trail alright...and it starts REAL close to you and ends in this country.

What kind of f u c k i n g moron are you ?

When the weak links are eliminated the chain just gets stronger

"It seems as though that many seemingly preventable deaths would trigger a national outrage, but I don't read or hear about any real way to combat voluntary addiction.."

Your kidding, right ?
This has been all over the news, all over congress, all over everywhere for about 5 years.

Doctors and Pharmacists and all the rules they have to follow have changed, and changed again.
People in great pain, people who really need pain killers, can not get them.

I personally know two people with legitimate need who have been cut off by new regulations.
One, an 80 year old me with a degenerative spine/nerve condition. He is in agony 24/7.
He has been told tough, the government will not let us prescribe you anything anymore. Basically, die in pain.!

Keep telling yourself that.

I know you could think that with me posting on this forum full of jerk offs. But I’m only here for a little while.

I doubt it. People like you have no where else to go. The last couple of years roster prove that.

Sound like a bunch drug trolls.

Of course.....same with Mexico.....our loss is their gain. That being said, if we didn't have a market for it, they couldn't move it so the real blame lies on this side of the fence.

I don't think that it is right for people who have chronic pain conditions to be denied the medicines that they need. OTOH, there seem to be a lot of physicians who are prescribing pain meds and not following up with their patients to insure that while their pain is being managed, they aren't slipping out of control and into addiction.

You would think that it would be fairly hard to run a criminal enterprise under a totalitarian government, but apparently it isn't. I don't trust the Chinese any more than I trust the Russians, which is not at all, and think that it is suicide to allow so many Chinese college students in U.S. colleges and universities.

Killed Tom Petty.

I can't remember, but some crazy amount like an ounce could OD everyone in Boston. I tried looking it up but I couldn't find it.
Anyway because it is so powerful, a small quantity is easily smuggled. It is also cheap to produce.
Plenty of financial incentive to produce it, so China only has too look the other way and let some mafia manufacture.

In advanced science and math, most students are Chinese. In the world there are 10X chinese graduates in science that US.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/niallm...stem-graduates-infographic/#126de8d8268a

Looking up the roster. And you think I’m the ignorant one.

As far as fentynal my pop just turned 82 and has to use it cause its the only thing that has worked for him. Had a stroke in 2014 then fell and jacked his shoulder up after rehab,another stroke 5 months after the first one and more rehab. The strokes were blamed on zeralto,but the shoulder they cant fix because of his heart probs.The shoulder is doable with the pain med. With some mods to some stands he can still hunt but he just calls now to say where its at, he got 2 last year and I was dang glad to go get them for him. That said yea sometimes the meds are BAD but at 82 if it keeps him going then lets just keep going.

Lost a distant nephew to an overdose about 2 years back. Guess was he got a hot dose laced with fent. His roomies left the body, took his credit card, and headed out to party for the night. Drugs sure screw people up.

They need to ban Narcan... That would cut off the supply of customers in a few short weeks and put the opioid crises on the front page of the paper in short order.

.
Do you think that the Chinese are purposely pumping Fentanyl into the U.S. as a means to destroy us by our own hand?[/quote]

They dont seem to be stopping it, people are dropping like flies up here and costing our already strained resources millions of dollars.
I always suspected the [bleep] chinese government was making alot of money off other peoples misery.

I am told that most opioid addicts get started with prescription drugs and move on to street drugs when their legal source dries up. I would support discontinuing the use of public funds for Narcan, but allow opioid users to buy their own supply over the counter to have a friend administer in the event of an over-dose. Otherwise, just let nature take its course.

The love of money doesn't care if people die or who

Neither do political agendas, otherwise the U.S. Government wouldn't have partially funded our covert role in the War in Laos that ran concurrently with the War in Vietnam via the CIA's facilitation of opium production, refining, and transportation.

How can they expect people to believe in the "War on Drugs" when opium poppies were allowed to be grown in Afganastain?

They are more worried about guns. How many gun deaths compared to drug deaths in the US?

I'm inclined to agree. Rather than Narcan, they ought to give anyone found OD-ing a nice cocktail of morphine, fentanyl, and meth. They started the trip 'cause they wanted the trip, so help them along .. finish it.

Tom

Democrats do not care about people dying. Just as long as the democrats get the power they want.

I disagree. They may get them from others who get them legally, but not themselves. Think about it---most are in their 20s and 30s. What happened to someone so young that they need opiates for pain? They either got it from someone illegally or went to a doctor and faked symptoms to get a script. They're just weak. I had two shoulder replacement operations in the last year and my Percocet was highly regulated. On the other hand, I only used about 4 of them because I'm not a baby. Too many people have a "woe is me" complex and will self-medicate with anything instead of trying to straighten out their lives.

Lack of guns control people the same as the drug war, it's all about money and control.

This^.

Let people take what they want and do what they want. Make some of these drugs OTC but with the pharmacist warning them about over-dosage. A lot of the problems will sort themselves out. It's all about money.

Laws changed last year in Tn. Only 3 days of opiods are scripted and available for outpatient procedures by drs.

As for "pain clinics" , they are hauling the doctors who operate those place straight to jail.

You will never stop drug addiction, drug dealers, or smugglers as long as there is a demand. Make it all legal, and put the resources on the education and addiction side.

Pain clinics are just another way to fleece the public.
In today's computer age who gets or gives what prescripts are easy to know without charging people that need the drug thousands of dollars every year.

If I had to guess I'd say he's going to the wrong doctor. Pain meds for legitimate need are available through Pain Management Centers, Pain Clinics, etc. General Practice offices will prescribe for immediate or short term need but will cut you off in a skinny minute if you keep coming back for more and more. The days of easily obtained LEGAL opioids is gone. Pressure has indeed been put on certain practices for excessively prescribing or even giving the impression they are over prescribing. But they WILL refer you to a pain specialty practice. Legitimate use of opioids gets a beat down when it's illegitimate or illegal use that is the problem. Kinda like guns and immigration.

With regard to the situation with the 80 year old with an unmet need for pain relief here's what I believe will help. I googled "pain clinic fresno ca", since that's your locale, and came up with numerous options for someone like him. Follow this link:

Pain Management, Fresno

If he has a legitimate need help is available. Perhaps someone could put him on the right track as far as seeking treatment goes. No reason at all for someone of his age to be denied IF his need is documented and at 80 yrs old I imagine it can easily be. Godspeed to him.

This is my wife’s plight. Almost verbatim. Began with strokes she was on the Fentynal. Strokes the result of blood hemolysis in LVAD pump and most likely the new Zarelto script thus forming a clot. She was in pain. Falling in therapy the works. Plus left side Paralyzed. Didn’t get drugs from the chinee. Scripted by her pallaitive care doc. She was on three opioids or artificial opioids. And she suffered brain damage from the strokes. She is now off all opioids. She still takes an occasional tramidol. But apparently her pain has subsided a bit.

here`s a different side of the pain drugs that involves me : i have been fighting with a insurance company about my back surgery, doctor wanted to do surgery early January 2019 . insurance company would not give a answer for surgery or against it,so i sit in pain with advil or aleve that does not work well for pain , still waiting for surgery that should have been done already .but now because everyone is so dang worried about opiod addiction i sit in bad pain and can`t sleep well nor right now i don`t even wanna go out in shoot my rifles on my own rifle range.at 65 years of age , bercause ofthis drug addiction problem some people have , i don`t care i need some better pain medicine until my surgery !

Guys, I hope this finds you well, but that just ain't accurate. Yes there is a trail of prescriptions per patient available to the care givers, and yes they get denied in multitudes every day if they are drug seekers. Like "I'm visiting my whatever here and I left my percocet bottle at home in wherever." So the Quick Clinic, Urgent Care, etc runs their history and my, my, my. They're not from 'wherever', they're living 20 miles down the road and picked up a prescription for 90 last week. Doctor shopping drug seekers is not an unfamiliar term. Similar things happen a lot, really al lot, but very few get away with it. I know these things to be true. There are some doctors that abuse prescriptions but they are a very small sample compared to legitimate pain clinics and eventually they get busted. And these clinics/management centers are under great scrutiny to abide by the rules. They too will drop you like a hot rock if abuse is determined. Matter of fact patients sign a contract before treatment begins. And as far as fleecing, most private insurance and Medicare provide partial payment for visits just like any other specialty. But the scrutiny is still there. Lots of documentation involved. It's the flourishing illegal trade with product coming across our borders that is the problem. Like I said in my last post; it's kinda like guns and immigration. Have a good day.

Before fentanyl, it was oxycontin. Before that it was meth. Before that it was heroin. Before that it was crack cocaine. Before that it was _______. Addicts just have to get their high.

They gave me that crap when I broke my ankle, made me sick, so I flushed it. I should have put an add in the classifieds, sold it.

Dude!!!!!!! Don’t even joke about that schidt!!!!!!

I say ramp up the potency of the street durgs 200% .....bet it be less than a month before things straigthen up .

Storming Norman is on the right track.

Not sure about high levels of scrutiny and dropping patients like a hot rock: my little home town. (Btw, larger than Billings)


https://www.theleafchronicle.com/st...-charged-opioid-fraud-scheme/2312021002/


Dr. Samson Orusa has been arrested on federal charges related to what prosecutors called an opioid distribution and fraud scheme.
Orusa, 56, has operated a medical practice in Clarksville for about 20 years, and this isn't the first time he's been accused of wrongdoing.

May 2004, Orusa's office was raided by federal agents, who left with boxes of medical records, according to previous Leaf-Chronicle reports. Orusa was later indicted by a federal grand jury on charges of performing unnecessary tests, billing without doing tests and money laundering.


Those accusations were a blow to his business. Orusa said some of the Medicaid health insurance plans that he carried dropped their contract with him after being contacted by prosecutors about the case.

For some time, the government froze his personal, business and charge accounts, he said. Orusa had to file bankruptcy and lost his home and business office, forcing his family to move, according to Leaf-Chronicle archives.


Jehova Jireh, God provides...opioids

stoners gonna get stoned. A lot will die. Oh well.

Fentanyl blows oxy, et. al., away, so much stronger, not something to be playing with.

Graveyards full of those who have.

DF

I think that's already happened, at least in some quarters.

DF

Hits a little close to home for me having a father that has battled this years. Those of y'all wishing him death can kiss my ass. All started with him being diagnosed with fibromyalgia and those first pills he was given. He was a great father up to then. His most recent doctor got arrested for over prescribing, etc when he had a patient die which got an investigation started and he is now facing charges. My fathers new doctor is making a difference and things are looking better for now. We've been dealing with this for almost 20 years, a lot of ups and down, dreams my mother never got to see to fruition, etc. It sucks.

I refused oxy when I had cancer surgery / radiation. It was a battle with the doctors to not take oxy.
I did do liquid codeine, and hydrocodone, just to swallow because it was throat cancer, but I was afraid of oxy. I grew up in a ghetto city, so I had real fear of addiction.
Still made it through. Maybe it was the wrong choice, but I had oxy in the hospital and was very seductive.
I have a high threshold for pain, so I did not absolutely need the high HP stuff, medium opioids were enough to be able to swallow/drink after the hospital. But if someone really needs the stuff, then use with supervision.

Destructive druggies are just looking to kill themselves on some depth. Maybe a terminal goal, but mostly it is a preconceived goal shielded as a mistake. No cure for that.

Sorry to hear that.

There are roads/paths out of that swamp, none of which are easy.

Chronic pain syndrome and fibromyalgia can be treated successfully, short of opiates.

DF

They gave me Fentanyl to take the edge off my broken ankle and I was glad to have it. Waaaaaay better than ketamine. When I left the hospital they gave me a script for 20 oxycodone which was supposed to last me about 3 days. I just took the last one of the original 20 a few days ago, over 6 weeks later. I filled my one refill and I haven't touched them yet.

Good call.

Bet yo "regularity" got slowed a bit by all that stuff...

DF

Surprisingly it didn't effect it at all. The nurses told me it would but I never had that problem. I never even took any of the "helpers" they gave me.

Except for that distant relative mentioned above, this issue is mostly invisible to me. I suppose I simply don't move in the right circles. Presently it seems meth is the activity of choice in this rural community likely due to its ease of manufacture.

Never experienced any sort of addiction, so I really can't relate to the difficulties of escaping such. That being, I'm not especially forgiving to those falling into trap. Seems a matter of choice, but maybe it's not.

The low is always lower than the high

So sorry to hear of it. I didn't know what her status was now. Prayers sent.

Folks who want to make it harder to get pain meds have never experienced true pain.

Had a bit of surgery about 20 years ago. It hurt the day I came out of surgery and a bit the next day. I came home on the third day and the pain was little more than a nuisance by then. They prescribed me enough opiate pain medicine to kill a large horse. I took a few of them on the first and second day after surgery,...ended up flushing the rest down the toilet.

From my experience, *some* doctors prescribe way too many opiates.

I'm sorry to hear of your father's struggles but I'm glad he's doing better now! 😊

I'd like to find one to still precribes way too much. They only ever give me 20oxys at a time. I have really earn those with a bone marrow biopsy or outpatient surgery.

The 60 tylenol codienes I get every month are a joke. Better than nothing I guess. Them and the 60 xanax I get keep me from digging under the fence.

I take the back roads mostly.

I don't wish your Father death.

But I am offended that a portion of the tax dollars that I pay to fund fire and rescue are used to pay for Narcan that is administered to people who have over-dosed on opioids more than once. I'd support resuscitating everyone/anyone with Narcan once, but not more than once. After that, let nature take its course. My good friend who is a county sheriff has told me that over half the opioid over-dose calls in his county are repeat visits to the same addresses, sometimes multiple times in the same 24-hour period and regularly to the same person. More than one self-inflicted over-dose case told the paramedics that they felt free to use more and more drugs because they know that the rescue squad will save them with Narcan. It seems that while Narcan will save most over-doses, it also gives them permission to push the limited of their drug use. Without access to Narcan they might seek treatment for their addiction or they might die sooner rather than later.

I got a phone call this afternoon from a young man. He is married to a woman with two kids from a prior marriage. He was looking for advise on how to tell these two kids their biological dad just died today. Won't be known for sure until a medical examination, but he is/was a known druggie and probably related to that.
Drugs hurt a lot of innocent people, like these kids. I told him to be gentle, and kind, but tell of the death for what it was. Leave the possible causes of the death out of it until it is known for sure.
They will bear the memory of that for the rest of their lives.