i use to believe i could.

but now not so sure i can.

the housing thread triggered this thread.

the idea of do it yourself helps Loews, Home Depot, Ace and others?

wish i could properly lay blocks and stones. that's a true art & craft right there.

I can’t, but my buddy can. He showed me one day it’s just about blew my mind he said no one uses them anymore everything is electronic. He said give most framers a framing square they would know what to do with it.

I can. I can even read a tape measure Gus.
I was at Home Depot last week and looked at a new tapes out of curiosity. They come now marked with 1/8, 1/4, 3/8, etc. so that when you call out a dimension to a Millennial, they can find it instead of just looking at you with a blank stare.
I still don't ask them to count change.

Last time I used a framing square I layed out the stair risers for my lake house. That was 1975. Knew how to do it then. I’d have to study up on it now.

Yes, still use one on occasion. Not sure how else you build stairs.

yep. there might be some majic in a manual framing square.

it'll do more than most folks can imagine.

i've forgotten most of it.

to "hammer" the intersection of a square will work to "square" it up.

we humans have come a long way in our construction technologies.

You lost me there Gus

I use one. But I'm not building homes. Stuff I build is very wonky and tough to square so I use a variety of things to plum and drill straight. I have jigs for placing levels and squares on stuff to drill true on my press. You do what you can and by any means necessary to do it right in craft. God bless the real carpenters and builders, that's real skill.

He said to use a framing square to its full potential it’s a little complicated, but he could utilize the full use of a framing square , But he is a mathematical whiz, I was lost i use it as a 90° straight edge :-)

I was taught by one those vanishing master carpenters. Roofs, stairs, framing and finish. I make no such claims for myself today, but yeah, I can still use a square.

Being a street racer & car builder in the 60-70’s I could look at a bolt/nut & know what size it was. I was well into adulthood before it occurred to me that the graduations on a rule matched the socket/wrench sizes.

lol. we're beginning to wander off the rez.

my uncle, long gone, taught me everything about construction.

that is, all that's i'd likely ever need to know, at least more or less.

he learnt his stuff at ft. bliss, texas back in the day. way back in the day.

if a framing square "get's out of whack" use a hammer to tap the top & bottom.

that is the junction of the short leg and long leg is where the "square resides" mostly.

tapping it with a hammer can help to re-calibrate the square to a more usable or valuable angle.

the key is to keep the 90 degree angle intact. or at least within acceptable bounds. what is acceptable?

I just installed a new garage door opener and used the 3,4 &5 triangle (actually it was 6,8 & 10) to get the rail dead nuts perpendicular with the garage header.

A framing square should be a piece of cake if you know what rise (and angle) you want to use.

Depends on how square you want things 😬

a steel square (ss) will get rusted pretty quick if allowed to get moisture on it.

an aluminum square can get out of whack pretty quick if not babied.

i have cut some really good birdmouths, and some others too.

My GF was a contractor back in the day, no power tools. He was very particular about his tools, sharpened his own saws. The amount of “set” was as important as the sharpness. My Dad said he was told to not force the saw, let it do the work. I have a couple of his saws, top notch, one is Swedish steel.

My Dad told a story of his Dad building a house for a cousin. The 2x6 rafter lumber was delivered first. Grandpa set up his saw horses, started cutting lumber, using his square and a pencil, throwing cut pieces in a pile. His cuz was concerned about him cutting up all that expensive lumber. Grandpa’s favorite word was “l golly”, told his cuz, I golly, I’ll pay for any that’s not right.

Later the sills and studs arrived, and the construction began. Once walls were up, the roof was next. It was a hipped roof with jack rafters, every piece fit perfectly. And with that kinda roof, there are multiple length rafters, with compound cuts, angle and bevel.

Siding was tongue and groove lumber at a 45 angle, tying plate to sill. Dad said Grandpa would say, “Boys, she may roll, she won’t tear up”. Roof decking was tongue and groove lumber.

Yeah, he built tough houses, many from back in the ‘40’s still here.

I grew up in one of those. And, it’s still here.

Reading a square like that was and is an art, as was that level of craftsmanship.

DF

I think Gus is talking about the tables found on some squares. Gives you multipliers to use to figure lengths of raters, jack rafters, hip rafters, valley rafters etc.. per foot of run for a given roof pitch (slope) I use a roof framers Bible Instead as a reference guide. Good explanation of the tables here.https://inspectapedia.com/roof/Framing_Square_Table_Use.php

there's probably different levels of adeptness related to reading carpenter's squares.

at the base, or bottom is the square itself. 90 degrees.

beyond that, one can figure a lot.

the tables are very good.

thanks for the posts.

Not "base" it's called the heel Blade and Tongue are the two "arms" of a square.

fair enough.

a good sawman is hard to replace.

pls carry-on. i'd like to learn more, as would others.

I learned the trade using them, but use a calculator in in the process too these days, do it in metric as well, the company I contract to calls me in for the complicated ones, I'm semi retired now.

yeah, me too.....

and square buttons are indispensable.....

Those that can't figure how to use a framing square should set it aside and just play with power saws.

I use the construction master calculator App on my phone now too. There's a couple good construction apps. Cheney industries has a free one that acts as a calculator to figure concrete by the yard for any application you can think of such as slab, footer, block fill, cylinders etc .. and gravel/sand by the ton.

Anyone serious about framing carpentry and maximizing efficiency without compromising quality should read this. I found it pre internet, reading fine homebuilding when I started running a crew. Helped develop the system my crews use to this day. My 4 lead guys are on the same page, when carpenters/helpers move around from crew to crew it's seamless.


Most of the stuff in this pile is 20 years plus old. Everybody thinks framing carpenters are Mexicans or meth addicts. Still a few of us that love our trade and are proud of what we've built at the end other day. We're going the way of the dodo though

I call them Retard Marks

Yes learned many years ago, I know how to figure elevations too.

Applied for a job at a very small business just starting off about 17 years ago and on the application they had a simple math test on it. One of the questions was "How many 8ths are in an inch?"

The man who built my house did not own a calculator. There are math problems written all over the framing of our home. If it couldn’t be figured with a pencil or framing square, he’d have no part of it.

Hmmm

Pretty basic, wonder how many got it?

Like who’s the George Washington Bridge named after?

Wonder how many apprentice carpenters, or even experienced carpenters, could keep up with my Grandpa, 80 yrs ago? And using just hand tools. That old man would probably work them into the ground.

DF

Gus, I've got a couple sets of brass square 'buttons'

Lock em down and go.

Yeah thought it was funny. They were just starting off in a schitty part of town in Columbus OH ,so not a whole lot of bright bulbs. Was a great place to work and watch grow, ran the paint dept for almost 6 years and left.

an 8 lb. or even 10 lb. calf's head can be used to make adjustments, but only on certain occasions.

Had some Apprentice Carpenters come to my shop a few years ago...…………….we were pre-fabbing a suspended ceiling grid made from 4/4 x 6" CVG Fir that was built on a 10* skew (10* out of square with the sidewalls. I asked the youngsters how they would determine the angle. Their answer was they would use their Construction Master calculator to determine it. I asked them what they'd do if the batteries went dead......total silence! I the asked them if they knew what the magic number is. Dumbfounded, I had to explain it to them. I said to them "If you have a wall that runs "X" number of feet, and then turns direction to 10* (or whatever) How do you figure the angle?" Again, couldn't answer. "The magic number is 57 5/16". At the end of the straight section, you swing and arc at 57 5/16". Every inch up that arc equals one degree."
They went back to their school and tried it, and sure enough! Incidentally, the ceiling grid we are talking about was at the Carpenters Apprenticeship Training Center in Portland, Oregon

As for hammering your square to bring it back to square, it also works with using a prick punch. Also, when a circular sawblade gets a crack in it, the only way to stop the crack from continuing is to drill a hole at the end of the crack...………………..now you know why women have a belly button!

Exactly. I’ve used it plenty on a couple houses and other projects. Would need a quick refresher today, but ima dragging dead trees today. 😉

After ya'll get that square figured out who can tell me how to square a foundation (or check it for square) using Pythagoras' Theorem.....no googling.....

hint......3 4 5

I grew up in construction, and still use hand tools such as these daily. Drywall square, Framing square. Swanson speed square and carpenter square are used pretty much daily.
My truck is about 40% tools, 60% parts, with 3 types of ladders to get me to where the work is.

Still use mine fairly often. Used to use it every day for about 2) years framing homes. X/12 for common cuts, x/17 for hip cuts.

345 right triangle and on a rectangular layout, cross corners with a tape measure.

3- 4- 5 or 6- 8 -10, or multiples of these numbers...……….easy peasy!

I am told I am one of two people in my area who still sweats copper pipe, and the only one who still stick frames a roof. And from the guys I see buying pre cut stringers, I am one of a very few who can still cut a stringer. It shocks me sometimes how few people still know how to build a house start to finish.

Framing square?????
Just 345 dat chit with a tape measure.


Gawd gus ...
Early man learned dat from the gods making gold smelting buildings for em way back in the day along the Tigris and Euphrates.

Sorry stepping on your post dude.
I just replied to op 1st post.


You nailed it!!!!

I learned how to set a 9-12 pitch roof for the deer stands we make.

The first tries were fun.

So true.

Read a framing square ?............... Is there an app for that ?

That worked better on the old copper ones. New steel ones, not so much.
I still have a couple old coppers. One is almost 1/4 inch thick in the center and tapers thinner towards the ends.
And yes, I know how to use it. Not as well as the true craftsman of old, like dad, but well enough.

Correct......or......length squared plus width squared equals diagonal squared.......3 4 5 is just an easy way to demonstrate how it works.

3-4-5 works, but diagonal measurements are more exact. I'd probably need some time to "tune up" to read a framing square again - it's been 25 years!
I cut many rafters, birdsmouths, and even more stair stringers with a tape, square, and what y'all are calling "buttons".
Also laid a bit of block, in my day - actually have sweated copper - and done it all, except sheet metal (no tools) and hot tar roofing - also, never laid brick - stucco is more prevalant in this area.

I am just a weekend-warrior builder and I recall the most challenging cut was the "widows peak" for the hay fork pulley on my horse barn.

Straight forward cuts here.


After two tries I got it done.

AH heck with it all.

Eyeball it, call it good. If it turns out to be a little red [bleep] hair off, who's gonna know anyway.

Honestly, I admire you guys that can and do still use the old ways. And I certainly agree with whoever posted about the batteries going dead for the kids' "app". Best to know the background math too.

Took the easy route once, bought a kit for an 8'x10' shed. Basically everything but the roofing shingles.

Put it together squaring it as best I could with the relatively crappy lumber they sent. (2006- WAY different wood than I remember using when I helped in construction back in the mid-late 70's). Even used an old trick taught to me by my contractor buddy, use a 24" pipewrench to take some of the twist out of the studs before nailing (Yes, the wood was that bad). Got to putting on the roof sheeting, lined up the edges with the rafter ends, go up top, and I'll be danged if there wasn't a 1/8" to 3/8" gap in some spots on the peak. Wondered what I'd done wrong. Called little brother, still in the trade since about 1974. He says nail the f'rs, we have bigger gaps in the $800K semi custom houses we build down here for the developers. (He's still working, running the Pettibone feeding stock to the Mexican framers.) Told me to put my drip edge and felt on, shingle it, when I get the cap shingles on it no one will know...........................except me. THAT was the problem!!! I'd know.

Maybe I could have done better with a saw and square, all I know is the kit went together a lot quicker than me having to by raw lumber and make all the cuts. And after all........it was just a shed...........right?

Still, I kinda think about it every now and then.

Wish I had a better grasp on the square, but I no longer need to do anything like that. My garden beds and such are not so critical.

Bought the wife a 10x12 shed from the local Mennonites. Delivered in the winter, couldn't get it where we wanted it in the mud. When it dried out this spring the guy came and placed it, no extra charge. That's the way I prefer to build stuff now!

Geno

I will buy something for, say, $10.28 and hand the "cashier" a quarter, 3 pennies and a twenty dollar bill just to see the 'now what do I do?' dumbfounded look on their face. Precious . . .

I can't imagine getting along WITHOUT a framing square.

Wonder how many here know how to CHECK and TRUE a framing square?

Yeah, 50 yrs ago, I knew how to use a slide rule, got pretty good at it.

If handed one now, I'd be lost...

I have a couple of framing squares, no way could I use one like my GF. But if he was to rise from the dead, doubt he could use an iPhone...

DF

You done good.

I like that old truck.

Looks like you're stuck in the wrong century...

And, that ain't all bad...

DF