I want to start out by saying this is all new to me. I'm looking for some guidance and recommendations. My wife and I purchasedd a place to retire to in one day (~15-20 years) and in the meantime, use it as a place to hunt. It is a 93 acre farm in TN and consists of woodland (~33 acres) and pasture (~60 acres) with two ponds. The individual I purchased it from had cleared the pasture areas over the course of 20 years. With that said, the property is 2.5 hours from me. I do not have the time to managed the property like I would want to due to distance, a full-time job and family.

With that said, I have asked around the community and found an individual that was looking for grazing pasture for his cattle. I explained to him that management of the land was more important than anything else and that if he would do that, he could use the land. I was looking for someone to keep the fields maintained as well as take care of the fencing. The fencing was in bad shape and needed to be redone. He stated that he didn't do business that way and offered a 900 lb. cow for beef as payment.

I did some research and came up with an already defined pasture lease. In the contract, I asked that fields be bush hogged 2x/yr, fencing maintained and well as maintenance of his cattle. In the last year, up to this point, the cattle have gotten out more times than I can count on both hands. He has not addressed the fence (only mended in places) and the fields have only been cut once. Given the fields were recently cleared, there are some stumps in areas which he has mentioned are concerning. The guy is not lazy. In fact, he's a hard worker and has stretched himself too thin with multiple jobs.

I have offered to help with costs of fence repairs as well as labor when I'm in town. This guy has agreed to many things (hanging gates, re-doing fence, managed fields) but has rarely come through. I like the guy but want more firm footing on definition of my expectations vs. his. With that said, what is usual and customary in this case. I want this guy to be successful in his cattle operation. However, property maintenance is of most importance to me. I could care less for the annual beef cow. Am I off base here?

You can get someone that'll do better.

How long was the term of your lease?

I find that people that lease pasture are more willing to do better improvements if they have a longer term lease. 4-5 years is what most cattlemen want to see, in order to do much.

If they think they could get kicked out year to year, they treat it that way.

To complex.

Don't let strangers onto your property!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

No way in hell!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If you don't have someone looking out for things... All sorts of strangers come and go at will.

Welcome to the world of renting.

Not to bash the guy here, as I know many in the same situation as him--trying to make a living farming or ranching while renting. He doesn't care about the property the same as you because he doesn't own it and all the extra work won't benefit him financially. He probably has hotter problems to take care of. I've heard it from both sides before and can understand both sides.

We run into the same thing here. Renters trying to put too many animals on the pasture, too early in the spring, leaving them in too long, and fences just barely good enough to keep animals in. For what you get in payment for grazing, doesn't really cover the issues with cattle, upkeep on a small property or even pay much towards the taxes.

No, you're not off base, but in his mind, the extra work may not pencil out into a money-making deal for him.

If someone tells me "I don't do business that way" I find it real easy to say, "We can't do business." I once was speaking with a guy about a lease on a campsite. He told me he could get a place in another area, with better amenities, for only slightly more money. I told him, "It looks like you've found your home then", and turned away. "Just a minute", he said quickly, "I'm just trying to negotiate".
"That's what we just did", I told him and wished him luck. Works for me. GD

Do you have an ag. exemption to maintain, for property taxes? Might consider buying a mower and brush hogging it yourself. Get a cab or you will find every ground hornet nest there is there , the hard way. As RBBar said, if no one is keeping an eye on the place, EVERYONE will be keeping an eye on it, using it at will knowing no owner or agent is about. just my .02, worth every penny.

The first thing you should have done is bring the fencing up to speed by hiring it done, repair and/or new, then from that starting point you can dictate lease points. If you put the right amount of cattle on the place you should not have to bushhog more than once a year.

Contact your local county ag extension agent. They usually have good contact information for individuals looking to lease ag land.

What is your property taxes based on, agricultural or recreational?

Get someone else, he won’t get any better.

Start with your county extension agent. They should know rates in that area. The contract is a good idea, lots of land rented on a handshake too. Take soil samples, the renter should maintain nutrient levels, fences should be at least maintained if not improved, according to the agreement. Poor fences are bad for neighborhood relationships and in a worse case senario landowners could be liable for damage caused by roaming cattle.

The fence is yours to fix. The lessee should maintain it.

Classic landlord mistake.

It looks so tempting.

The tenant fixes up the property, the landlord doesn't hafta pay any $, and everybody's happy!

But it never works out that way, and never will.

The tenant DGAS about your property.

He's just usin it, and will do as little as possible, as cheaply as possible, for as long as possible.

Fix the fences yourself, and rent the place for what it's worth.

Cattle or hay, whatever's worth more in your area.

And as said, watch the nutrient management. Largest expense involved, and either do it yourself, or watch it done. Won't take much time to do that.

Lease my pasture to neighbor who is a great cattleman. He keeps up fences, maintains the water well.

$25/acre. Way less than prime crop land which goes to $125 or so.

DF

I lease some pasture and at the end of the lease I am expected to return the land in essentially the same condition as it was when I leased it, excepting normal wear and tear. I would agree it is not the lessee's responsibility to rebuild your fences. Hire someone to rebuild the fences and then expect the lessee to maintain them. Is it really necessary to brush hog twice a year if the land is being grazed?

A fellow sat down next to this attractive woman and ask her if she would have sex with him for a million dollars. She thought a minute and said yes I would. He asked if she would have sex with him for five dollars. She asked what do you think I am, a whore? He said we already established that, now we are negotiating!

I'm interested in all of the answers from experienced people on this subject.

Duvnull, from what I've learned since inheriting 160 acres in 2010 is that neighbors commonly trade with each other without exchanging money.

My farm is almost equally sized areas of native grass pasture and cultivated field. The agreement with my neighbor is, he share crops the wheat or cotton with 2/3 share for him and 1/3 for me. He runs his cattle on my pasture free of charge. He does not charge me for any labor costs, seed, fertilizer, fuel, harvesting, or transporting my grain to the elevator along with his. And he is doing an excellent job of maintaining the place.

I don't have a clue how much the pasture rent would be worth, but we are both happy with our agreement. I"m making a little money from the crops after taxes, and he treats my land the same way he treats his.

Great input; I appreciate all of the responses. As to taxes, the land is in the greenbelt program and is taxed as such. As for the length of the lease, I told the tenant that I would extend the contract to 5+ years if the fence was rebuilt. He knows this was a long term opportunity as I mentioned up front. He started repairing it and a strand of barbwire here and there is all he did. I wouldn't want him to feel put out after putting in new fencing on a 1 year contract. If I don't have cattle on the farm, it reduces the interest in having a well maintained fence. The interest in having him there on my part, as others have stated, is to watch over the land.

Funny thing is when I met this guy and his Dad, the first thing the dad says to me is, "You're not going to put us out after a year like the other landowners, are you?" That was somewhat of a red flag right off the bat but chose to ignore it and give them the benefit of the doubt. The cattle have gotten out so many times that neighbors were letting me know. I never asked the guy to remove the problem cattle even though contract said loose cattle out 3x and I had option to ask for removal. However, I did let him know that I had concerns with this as neighbor's grandkid would haul ass down the road. Hitting a loose cow really concerned me. He then removed the problem cattle.

As for brush hogging 2x/year, he doesn't have enough cattle there to graze the land. He started with 19 and now have 9 there after removing some cattle to another location. The other location is charging him $8/head/month to graze I believe.

What part of Tennessee?

Couple more things to consider, if you don't want everyone and his brother stompin around your property talk to the local game warden and consider no trespassing signs. Your pastures might do better as hayfields depending on how they lay. Making hay helps with the weed issue. Get to know the local soil and water conservation service guys, they have many programs that might help with fencing, weed and water issues. I understand the logistics problems of looking after your place, we live on our farm, have town jobs and babysit about 90 cows with family help and we're always behind. Be prepared, you've bought yourself a full-time job but it's worth it in the long-run.

I have 40 acres of hay fields out of about 100 acres. I grew up on the place. My dad kept the fields fertile and well managed when he was alive. He died 17 years ago. There was a number of old codgers lined up for the hay rights at that time and my mom picked the one she liked the best. He cuts the hay twice a year. Never gave us a dime. Doesn't clean up the field edges or mow the small patches he can't get with his equipment. Only condition was that he fertilize it every year. 10 years ago when the guy that my mom hired to do the cleanup couldn't do it anymore, my mom asked the hay guy if she could pay him to do it. He said he didn't have time for that.

Now 2 years ago I bought the place from my when she moved to a retirement community. I only stay there half time. I dawned on me in April I haven't seen any sign of fertilizer in a few years. It's a situation that chaps my azz but I don't have time to cut the hay or find a new hay guy. If it's not fertilized this coming spring I will have a talk with him, probably blow my top, and be stuck mowing 40 acres of hay fields next summer. Could stand to be cut and left a few years at this point.

Couple things. I have installed No Trespassing signs. My in-laws retirement place is next to ours. They have the 272 acres next door. My father-in-law doesn't do farm work. He has a guy cut his hay. In-laws get nothing in payment other than managed fields. Farmer keeps all the hay. I asked that guy and he already had too much on his plate to take it on. I have installed Internet cameras on the property to keep an eye on things remotely. That's been a great investment; People don't like seeing their mug on camera.

2.5 hours away takes a bit of planning, but stopping in time to time unannounced and taking some photos could be time well spent. Good luck.

Cutting hay and no fertilizer will sap your ground of nutrients and cattle can be rough on a place. You're kind of right about having cattle being a incentive to keep up fences. I used to lease pasture, now I own mine. Never did care as much about someone else's place, it's just human nature. I have a friend that saves broken posts to use on leased land as fence stays and he will disk up slopes on rented property. He rented my place one year and I declined him the next. If I were you I would get a tractor and go bush hog it good and proper once a year and give the local game warden hunting rights.

You guys are really letting folks cut and keep your hay for nothing? I know guys around here who would kill for a deal like that.

I’d have the COOP spray it in the spring and so you aren’t burning up time and fuel brush hogging. Take a weekend and go fertilize it. Pay a hay guy to cut and bale it and then sell the hay.

Lots of people out here who have land but no cattle do exactly what I described. Minimal time and money invested and they make decent money after they sell the hay.

and the owner should clear the stumps if he wants it mowed.

If you have property, you don't own it. It owns you. Get rid of the notion that absentee ownership works. 2 1/2 hours isn't that far once a month. Never let anyone know you are coming unless you need to meet for some specific reason.

Pay attention to the posters who have a clue about managing property. It's not that hard to figure out who they are. If it sounds like doing work to straighten things out, they are the ones to listen to.

Stumps, fences etc, everything is negotiable but not necessarily practical. Despite "good intentions," a tenant won't find the time to do anything that's not valuable to him.

Get rid of the guy who has it now. He's neither using it (for all practical purposes) nor taking care of it. The right guy is out there but you won't find him with the current guy in possession.

I could go on, but it's getting late. Start your education now. Good luck.

Having leased out to a great guy for cattle lease, ours reads, he pays us 1200 a year, for 100 acres. His call on how many cattle, sometimes I wish he had a few more, we do have a max number though in writing.

I maintain all boundary fences. He maintains any cross fencing etc...

Other than that not much else, expect he does not have fishing or hunting rights, only cattle grazing or cutting hay. If he wanted to hunt or fish he could ask, and with him I'd be ok, but I keep that in there just in case.

Bottom line I have no clue what average leases are in your area. And that basically could tell the tale if you can get more. You can always ask for more, thats a given, but to get it, well you never know.

I think we have in our contract too, to spray once a year. And fertilize. I just go talk to him when it comes time, sometimes it doesn't need spraying, no need to waste money. Same with fertilizer.

My wife doesn't care for mesquite up front, where folks can see, so she chops and sprays quite a bit, and our renter actually usually gives her a hundred now and then for the effort. And we use him to buy the products, as we have let our license slip on the herbicides stuff.

Depending on your take too, depends on what you are going to want. We prefer letting the pasture turn back to native, and love the fact he only runs a few cows, so he doesn't have to feed that much in the winter. Its MUCH better for the overall wildlife, yet it helps keep some of the pasture down a bit.

And if there is a big spot I want shredded because its just gotten too big, he comes over with a big bat wing and does it for us.

YMMV. But you can ask for so much that you will never get it, or such that a person feels he has to milk the lease for all he can make just to turn a profit.

We lease a bit of our land for crops to a local farmer and that's something you might want to consider. If a farmer knows he's going to get the same ground next year he'll take better care of it. You mentioned stumps, and I don't know how the land lays, but leasing for crops will be more $ per acre of the tillable land. My father leases some of his land to a different local farmer....some of it for cattle, some of it for crops. The land leased for crops is MUCH better cared for and brings in more $ on the lease. The farmer does the least possible on fences, etc and the pastures are overgrazed. He does fertilize pastures. The land he uses for crops he REALLY takes care of......

The option of haying is something else to consider.

Expecting someone who rents pasture to keep fences up enough to keep stock in is about all you can expect on fencing....and the very minimal there. Replacing fencing takes time, money, and effort, things a lot of farmers are spread to thin on already.

If you could find someone interested in renting it for crops/hay and another responsible person (or couple of people) who'd be interested in hunting it, you might have people on it enough to keep it up and watched over. In the end what will matter most is the quality of the people you lease to regardless of how you do it....

I have always been fortunate enough to not have to lease land for pasture, being able to own mine. Having said that, agreements between landowner and renter are all over the board, as far as the details go. A lot depends on the land itself.....is it good land, are the fences good, does it have a good water supply, and etc. It's really not much different than when it comes to renting any other kind of property.

If I were a landowner, who didn't live anywhere close to the land, my biggest priority would be finding trustworthy to look after it, and you really need that. I know some absentee landowners here, who own land just to hunt on, and are never around unless it's hunting season, and a lot of happen on their land when they are hundreds of miles away. Finding someone trustworthy might be hard to do, and might require going through several persons before you find that one guy you can trust.

As far as rent prices go, it depends on many things. Cropland will always be worth more than pasture and hay ground. How much will depend mostly on where you live and what crops are grown. Someone mentioned fertilizer, and IMO anyone who doesn't fertilize hay and pasture is a pitiful azz operator. I've heard people say that the cow chit is plenty of fertilizer for a pasture. If you believe that, you'd better think again.

I used to be one of those farmers who liked to bush hog all the time, thinking it kept things looking better. It may do that for some things, but most pastures only need it once a year, and some not at all.

Being in the agriculture shredding/brush control business, I agree with you.

Once a year is plenty unless there are odd circumstances.

Some ranches I do only get done every 2-3 years.

Regular shredding is for highway ROW's and easements. (I do none of those.. strictly ag.)