Ted Cruz is sniveling. Nathan Bedford Forrest, like Andrew Jackson, had no formal military training. He died a believing Christian, having come to redeeming faith in Christ after the war. He was a serious Presbyterian much like Stonewall Jackson. He had Grace in his heart and was an advocate for the downtrodden, even blacks in Memphis.
Christ can forgive a lot of sins. Considering the atrocities committed by Forrest and his men at Ft. Pillow and later as grand wizard of the KKK, Jesus did a lot of forgiving.
Ted Cruz is sniveling. Nathan Bedford Forrest, like Andrew Jackson, had no formal military training. He died a believing Christian, having come to redeeming faith in Christ after the war. He was a serious Presbyterian much like Stonewall Jackson. He had Grace in his heart and was an advocate for the downtrodden, even blacks in Memphis.
Cruz is nothing but a carpet bagger that will say anything to get elected. Always swore I would never vote for him, finally did this last time as anyone was better than Beto, but Ted is quickly making me rethink that
Christ can forgive a lot of sins. Considering the atrocities committed by Forrest and his men at Ft. Pillow and later as grand wizard of the KKK, Jesus did a lot of forgiving.
"Considering the atrocities committed by Forrest and his men at Ft. Pillow"
I doubt Forrest would be the least bit entertained by someone that eats his own boogers.
He would most likely carve Cruz's liver out and feed it to him if there was a time machine. đ
So do you support the KKK? Are you a member?
Listen Commie, and loving Lincoln as you do, who by the way was a Bolshevik, which is another word for Communist, you need a little history lesson, so here goes....
There is a huge difference between the KKK as it was when it was first organized, and what it morphed into in later years. When the KKK was first organized, your Northern aggressors had decided to payback the Southern Whites for their sin of owning slaves.....which had been legal at the time, something the Reconstruction crowd just "happened" to forget. Anyway, they put the former slaves in political offices, and did everything within their power to chit on the Whites, even going so far as to encourage the degradation of White women. I strongly suspect, that if the South had won the war, and did the North what the North did to the South, the damn Yankees would have been singing a different tune.
Anyway, Southern Whites had no way to legally defend their selves, so they formed the KKK as a way to fight back against the unfair and unjust treatment the Northern Republicans and the Negroes were dishing out to them. There was not one thing wrong with that, any group of people would have done so. The original KKK was soon disbanded after the Yankees left Southern soil, and the Whites started running things again. When it was resurrected, it did not follow the course that the original founders, of which that great and honorable man, Nathan Bedford Forrest was one of.
I find it very odd that you Northerners like to talk about how horrible the KKK was, yet it was the North who was DIRECTLY responsible for it coming into being. Had I been alive in the period of time following the war, and lived in South, under the conditions the North was forcing upon them, I would have gladly joined the KKK.
Today, is a much different story, and I don't support them because they are in no way even close to what the KKK was originally intended to be.
Christ can forgive a lot of sins. Considering the atrocities committed by Forrest and his men at Ft. Pillow and later as grand wizard of the KKK, Jesus did a lot of forgiving.
I think you're wrong about that, and are another example of someone who hate's all things connected to the Confederate States of America.
Todays KKK are a bunch of pansies compared to the KKK in Bedfords day. Those guys were bloodthirsty terrorists. They murdered 1000's, often brutally
To understand the Klan in those days just after the fall of the South you have to immerse yourself in some factual history concerning the conditions of military occupation and so called reconstruction. There was and is a context. Lawlessness abounded and white men were many times disarmed and disenfranchised. We advocate for graciousness in society but the times were brutal. If you haven't waded through real factual history of the tyranny and atrocities of reconstruction it would be impossible to have a balanced view of it.
Christ can forgive a lot of sins. Considering the atrocities committed by Forrest and his men at Ft. Pillow and later as grand wizard of the KKK, Jesus did a lot of forgiving.
The Fort Pillow incidents not so simple. It is recorded that Forrest put himself between his men and the Union prisoners and threatened to shoot any of his own men who continued. There were 3000 recorded black mourners at Forrest's funeral. He had been an outspoken advocate of hiring blacks, especially skilled blacks, because there was a severe shortage of skilled workers after the war.
Christ can forgive a lot of sins. Considering the atrocities committed by Forrest and his men at Ft. Pillow and later as grand wizard of the KKK, Jesus did a lot of forgiving.
The Fort Pillow incidents not so simple. It is recorded that Forrest put himself between his men and the Union prisoners and threatened to shoot any of his own men who continued. There were 3000 recorded black mourners at Forrest's funeral. He had been an outspoken advocate of hiring blacks, especially skilled blacks, because there was a severe shortage of skilled workers after the war.
That is a fact, something that today's Negroes and White idiots don't want to hear.
War always has been a nasty business, my unit in Viet Nam rarely took prisnors. Below is an exert from an account of the Crater. When I was growing up I was taught that both sides shot into the battle of The Crater .
"War crimes Many Confederates were killed, even after surrendering, by bayonets from black Union troops after the mine explosion:
When the fourth division advanced on July 30, the thin line of Confederate defenders clearly heard the blacks shouting at the top of their voices, "No quarter to the Rebels! No quarter to the Rebels!" and the blacks proceeded to butcher every man they found alive in the works.[12]
In later stages of the battle, many Union casualties were black soldiers killed by Confederate bayonets and musket fire even after they had surrendered.[citation needed]
These actions violated the rules of war of the time (the Lieber Code). Black soldiers were also bayoneted by white Union soldiers, who feared reprisal from victorious Confederate troops"
Christ can forgive a lot of sins. Considering the atrocities committed by Forrest and his men at Ft. Pillow and later as grand wizard of the KKK, Jesus did a lot of forgiving.
"Considering the atrocities committed by Forrest and his men at Ft. Pillow"
B ULLS HIT!!
They captured 300 Union soldiers, then murdered them. Who else has done such a thing? Santa Ana at Goliad. Are you in favor of him, too?
Really stupid move by Lyin Ted. Conservatives have absolutely NOTHING to gain by trying to out virtue signal or out PC the left on issues like this. He will gain a grand total of zero leftist votes but will likely lose support of those who consider themselves "southern sympathizers" who would be much more likely to support him......not many but every vote counts these days.
Almost as stupid as not endorsing Trump at the convention. I have little against Cruz and would certainly support him in a national election against a communist but pulling for him is a lot like pulling for a bad football team. He really needs to wise up.
The KKK as started by Forrest was an "insurgency" against an occupying army and carpetbaggers during reconstruction. Like James, if I were alive back then living where I do now, I could very well have been a member. IIRC Forrest attempted to disband it after reconstruction ended and cut ties with those who would not disband.
The KKK that everyone alive today remembers or at least thinks of when they hear "KKK" is the one of the early 20th century that had real numbers and real political power all over the U.S. These are the guys who burned crosses, dressed in sheets. bombed churches, etc.
Really two different outfits. Someone should have told LT that before he made himself look silly.
The problem that Ted Cruz has, along with at least 95% of Republicans is that they are stupid enough to believe that if they're nice to a Negro, or the Hispanics, or the queers, or this group or that group, that they'll come across as looking like "nice guys" and get some of their votes. That's what it boils down to.......the quest for the almighty vote. That is one thing that I admire about Trump....he doesn't kiss azz to get a vote.
Christ can forgive a lot of sins. Considering the atrocities committed by Forrest and his men at Ft. Pillow and later as grand wizard of the KKK, Jesus did a lot of forgiving.
"Considering the atrocities committed by Forrest and his men at Ft. Pillow"
B ULLS HIT!!
They captured 300 Union soldiers, then murdered them. Who else has done such a thing? Santa Ana at Goliad. Are you in favor of him, too?
You are blaming Forrest for what he stopped. Historical record says that after the surrender some of the captured soldiers picked up weapons and fired again.
Christ can forgive a lot of sins. Considering the atrocities committed by Forrest and his men at Ft. Pillow and later as grand wizard of the KKK, Jesus did a lot of forgiving.
Compared to the total atrocities committed in the name of Saint Abraham The Emancipator by Sherman/Grant/et al - The South was devastated for several decades. How about the Northern states paying reparations to The South?? You know, the confiscation of legally purchased and owned human farm implements, burning of homes, thousands of women and girls being raped, livestock destroyed, etc. etc. etc. etc.
Threads like this remind me of how miraculous a thing it was that our ancestors who actually killed each other were able to patch this thing up so quickly.
Right, wrong or indifferent the past is what it was. We should acknowledge it, study it and learn from it but in the context of what was considered acceptable at that time. It is inappropriate to apply today's standards to events of the past. Atrocities are committed in times of war as well as in times of peace. It is easy to judge events of the past but more difficult to determine the course ahead.
Many of the events of the past could have been handled differently but they were not. America is still the most free and most generous nation the world has ever known and the entire world is a better place because she exists. As a result people from all over the world risk their lives and the lives of their families to come here.
Christ can forgive a lot of sins. Considering the atrocities committed by Forrest and his men at Ft. Pillow and later as grand wizard of the KKK, Jesus did a lot of forgiving.
"Considering the atrocities committed by Forrest and his men at Ft. Pillow"
B ULLS HIT!!
They captured 300 Union soldiers, then murdered them. Who else has done such a thing? Santa Ana at Goliad. Are you in favor of him, too?
At goaliad fannin surrendered only to be marched out and executed a few days later. At ft pillow Forrest offered terms and was on record as saying he would not guarantee quarter if the garrisOn didnât surrender yet still tried to stop it. I would say the garrisOn made its choice when it chose not to surrender knowing that quarter may not be given if they didnât.
You wouldn't know a real Commie if he kicked you in the ass. How could Lincoln be something that was not even in existence?
The Communist Manifesto was written in 1848, many of the officers/generals of the G.A.R. were European immigrants who subscribed to the communist ideology.
Threads like this remind me of how miraculous a thing it was that our ancestors who actually killed each other were able to patch this thing up so quickly.
It was not "patched up". The South was left without enough resources to feed itself much less fight. 150 years of Yankee lies taught in our schools have caused the idea of freedom to almost die out, but there has been no forgiveness and won't be.
You wouldn't know a real Commie if he kicked you in the ass. How could Lincoln be something that was not even in existence?
The Communist Manifesto was written in 1848, many of the officers/generals of the G.A.R. were European immigrants who subscribed to the communist ideology.
Ole Bowswinger has swallowed that story about Lincoln being the Great Emancipator all his life. He truly believes that Lincoln wanted to preserve the Union, and that Ole Honest Abe was the greatest president ever. The reality of the situation is that he does not care that Lincoln was a tyrant, who ordered the Northern armies to lay waste to the South and to it's citizens.......even if those citizens were not soldiers.
Lincoln's only redeeming quality in my book was that he considered the Negro to not be the equal of the White man, and should be sent back to Africa. Would he have pushed for that, had he not been killed, I really doubt it. The powers-to-be in the North were keen to use the Negro former slaves to punish the Whites in the South, and most likely would not have allowed them to have been sent back.
There is no argument to the fact that America would be a better and safer place today, if the slaves had all been returned to the jungle.
Yep. I grew up in the South and have no use for them and their members.
Ya, well I grew in the south too, and doubt pretty [bleep] seriously that you actually seen OR knew of any more actual card carrying members of the klan than I did. Which was none....
Yep. I grew up in the South and have no use for them and their members.
Ya, well I grew in the south too, and doubt pretty [bleep] seriously that you actually seen OR knew of any more actual card carrying members of the klan than I did. Which was none....
Really stupid and pointless move on the part of Cruz. As RJY already stated the KKK has existed in various forms but the one Forrest led was righteous in their forming and in their actions. Not to mention the fact that he was a commissioned officer and brave soldier of the Confederate Army.
That is a part of history. To disavow it is criminal.
You wouldn't know a real Commie if he kicked you in the ass. How could Lincoln be something that was not even in existence?
The Communist Manifesto was written in 1848, many of the officers/generals of the G.A.R. were European immigrants who subscribed to the communist ideology.
Ole Bowswinger has swallowed that story about Lincoln being the Great Emancipator all his life. He truly believes that Lincoln wanted to preserve the Union, and that Ole Honest Abe was the greatest president ever. The reality of the situation is that he does not care that Lincoln was a tyrant, who ordered the Northern armies to lay waste to the South and to it's citizens.......even if those citizens were not soldiers.
Lincoln's only redeeming quality in my book was that he considered the Negro to not be the equal of the White man, and should be sent back to Africa. Would he have pushed for that, had he not been killed, I really doubt it. The powers-to-be in the North were keen to use the Negro former slaves to punish the Whites in the South, and most likely would not have allowed them to have been sent back.
There is no argument to the fact that America would be a better and safer place today, if the slaves had all been returned to the jungle.
To call Lincoln a tyrant is pretty silly.
He was the sitting president during our only civil war and got shot in the head shortly thereafter.
Really stupid and pointless move on the part of Cruz. As RJY already stated the KKK has existed in various forms but the one Forrest led was righteous in their forming and in their actions. Not to mention the fact that he was a commissioned officer and brave soldier of the Confederate Army.
That is a part of history. To disavow it is criminal.
Well, Cruze just wants to get laid by aoc so what can we expect from that?
Ok rib, , then expand on your personal experience. But now I don't want to trigger any ptsd issues.
I will relate one. After I got off active duty I was Commander of an ARNG unit in a southern state. One of my soldiers threatened his Plt Ldr and a Bn Staff officer with physical harm. I called him into my office to "counsel" him. He pulled out a KKK card (assumed it is real) and proceeded to threaten me. I came out of my chair, braced him up, and called my ops Sgt into my office as a witness while I continued to counsel him. My unit was 30% black and I was tempted to take him out in formation and announce his KKK membership. Instead I refered him for an Article 15.
My father was a LEO for 32 years and had a even dimmer view of them. They were just criminals to him.
My family had several members that were Confederate soldiers and the KKK does their memory a dishonor.
One of the biggest, most important âwhat ifâ questions. It has been pondered by many, both from the North and the South. Originally Answered: How would reconstruction have been conducted differently if Lincoln had not been assassinated? Jonathan Buttall, former Retired Professional in Behavioral Health Field at Private Sector; Public Sector.
It would have solved problems that instead have lasted to the present day. When John Wilkes Booth murdered Lincoln, he inadvertently did the same to the American Southeast as well.
Lincoln was a forgiving man at the end of the Civil War. He wanted a peaceful and compassionate Reconstruction. He ordered the pardon of Robert E Lee which was completed after his death, so Lee, instead of being in prison, became a college professor. Lincoln sent a secret message to Jefferson Davis to exile himself from the US and they then wonât come after him. Davis stupidly refused, but only did some prison time and then spent the rest of his life in a peaceful plantation.
But without Lincoln, the South was put under strict pressures, it was looted and ravaged by Northerners who were called âCarpetbaggersâ, land was taken and chaos and poverty reigned. While the South DID bring this on themselves, Lincoln didnât want this to happen. With Lincolns death, the next President, Andrew Johnson, neglected or oppressed the whole situation. While he was acquitted after being impeached, he remains the second worst President in history by American Historians.
In addition, if Lincoln had lived, the end of slavery and the very beginning of civil rights would have begun perhaps a full century before it finally did happen
The problem that Ted Cruz has, along with at least 95% of Republicans is that they are stupid enough to believe that if they're nice to a Negro, or the Hispanics, or the queers, or this group or that group, that they'll come across as looking like "nice guys" and get some of their votes. That's what it boils down to.......the quest for the almighty vote. That is one thing that I admire about Trump....he doesn't kiss azz to get a vote.
Ok rib, , then expand on your personal experience. But now I don't want to trigger any ptsd issues.
I will relate one. After I got off active duty I was Commander of an ARNG unit in a southern state. One of my soldiers threatened his Plt Ldr and a Bn Staff officer with physical harm. I called him into my office to "counsel" him. He pulled out a KKK card (assumed it is real) and proceeded to threaten me. I came out of my chair, braced him up, and called my ops Sgt into my office as a witness while I continued to counsel him. My unit was 30% black and I was tempted to take him out in formation and announce his KKK membership. Instead I refered him for an Article 15.
My father was a LEO for 32 years and had a even dimmer view of them. They were just criminals to him.
My family had several members that were Confederate soldiers and the KKK does their memory a dishonor.
I had a fake ID with a picture of Elvis on it when I was in high school, you would be surprised at the phuggin dumbasses it worked on.
Ok rib, , then expand on your personal experience. But now I don't want to trigger any ptsd issues.
I will relate one. After I got off active duty I was Commander of an ARNG unit in a southern state. One of my soldiers threatened his Plt Ldr and a Bn Staff officer with physical harm. I called him into my office to "counsel" him. He pulled out a KKK card (assumed it is real) and proceeded to threaten me. I came out of my chair, braced him up, and called my ops Sgt into my office as a witness while I continued to counsel him. My unit was 30% black and I was tempted to take him out in formation and announce his KKK membership. Instead I refered him for an Article 15.
My father was a LEO for 32 years and had a even dimmer view of them. They were just criminals to him.
My family had several members that were Confederate soldiers and the KKK does their memory a dishonor.
I had a fake ID with a picture of Elvis on it when I was in high school, you would be surprised at the phuggin dumbasses it worked on.
KKK Be a man join the clan. Keep denying and defending the KKK.
One of the biggest, most important âwhat ifâ questions. It has been pondered by many, both from the North and the South. Originally Answered: How would reconstruction have been conducted differently if Lincoln had not been assassinated? Jonathan Buttall, former Retired Professional in Behavioral Health Field at Private Sector; Public Sector.
It would have solved problems that instead have lasted to the present day. When John Wilkes Booth murdered Lincoln, he inadvertently did the same to the American Southeast as well.
Lincoln was a forgiving man at the end of the Civil War. He wanted a peaceful and compassionate Reconstruction. He ordered the pardon of Robert E Lee which was completed after his death, so Lee, instead of being in prison, became a college professor. Lincoln sent a secret message to Jefferson Davis to exile himself from the US and they then wonât come after him. Davis stupidly refused, but only did some prison time and then spent the rest of his life in a peaceful plantation.
But without Lincoln, the South was put under strict pressures, it was looted and ravaged by Northerners who were called âCarpetbaggersâ, land was taken and chaos and poverty reigned. While the South DID bring this on themselves, Lincoln didnât want this to happen. With Lincolns death, the next President, Andrew Johnson, neglected or oppressed the whole situation. While he was acquitted after being impeached, he remains the second worst President in history by American Historians.
In addition, if Lincoln had lived, the end of slavery and the very beginning of civil rights would have begun perhaps a full century before it finally did happen
Lincoln had serious plans to send all ex slaves to Africa. He stated more than once that the abolition of slavery wasn't his primary goal. He wanted to preserve the Union. Even when a significant part of the American population no longer wanted to be a part of the Union.
It's painfully obvious that Lincoln had no problem with slavery,....since he demonstrated that every person in America is owned by the Federal Government.
Ok rib, , then expand on your personal experience. But now I don't want to trigger any ptsd issues.
I will relate one. After I got off active duty I was Commander of an ARNG unit in a southern state. One of my soldiers threatened his Plt Ldr and a Bn Staff officer with physical harm. I called him into my office to "counsel" him. He pulled out a KKK card (assumed it is real) and proceeded to threaten me. I came out of my chair, braced him up, and called my ops Sgt into my office as a witness while I continued to counsel him. My unit was 30% black and I was tempted to take him out in formation and announce his KKK membership. Instead I refered him for an Article 15.
My father was a LEO for 32 years and had a even dimmer view of them. They were just criminals to him.
My family had several members that were Confederate soldiers and the KKK does their memory a dishonor.
I had a fake ID with a picture of Elvis on it when I was in high school, you would be surprised at the phuggin dumbasses it worked on.
KKK Be a man join the clan. Keep denying and defending the KKK.
Your false flagging a non existent issue, but you keep drinking the cool aide...
Ok rib, , then expand on your personal experience. But now I don't want to trigger any ptsd issues.
I will relate one. After I got off active duty I was Commander of an ARNG unit in a southern state. One of my soldiers threatened his Plt Ldr and a Bn Staff officer with physical harm. I called him into my office to "counsel" him. He pulled out a KKK card (assumed it is real) and proceeded to threaten me. I came out of my chair, braced him up, and called my ops Sgt into my office as a witness while I continued to counsel him. My unit was 30% black and I was tempted to take him out in formation and announce his KKK membership. Instead I refered him for an Article 15.
My father was a LEO for 32 years and had a even dimmer view of them. They were just criminals to him.
My family had several members that were Confederate soldiers and the KKK does their memory a dishonor.
I had a fake ID with a picture of Elvis on it when I was in high school, you would be surprised at the phuggin dumbasses it worked on.
KKK Be a man join the clan. Keep denying and defending the KKK.
Your false flagging a non existent issue, but you keep drinking the cool aide...
No koolaid here just personal experience. Are you a Kkk member?
Lincoln's only redeeming quality in my book was that he considered the Negro to not be the equal of the White man, and should be sent back to Africa. Would he have pushed for that, had he not been killed, I really doubt it. The powers-to-be in the North were keen to use the Negro former slaves to punish the Whites in the South, and most likely would not have allowed them to have been sent back. There is no argument to the fact that America would be a better and safer place today, if the slaves had all been returned to the jungle. [/quote]
Nothing racist or what a redneck, ignorant, bigot would spout in that post. How do you manage to type with that white sheet over yourself?
No koolaid here just personal experience. Are you a Kkk member?
laffin
Sorry to disappoint you but no, I am not The klan has no relevance in today's political arena despite what the handlers from the divisive left are feeding you.... Wake up man..
Christ can forgive a lot of sins. Considering the atrocities committed by Forrest and his men at Ft. Pillow and later as grand wizard of the KKK, Jesus did a lot of forgiving.
Mostly yankee bullshit. General Forrest was a great man, and a great patriot. His association with the KKK has been twisted out of context.
Lincoln was a forgiving man at the end of the Civil War. He wanted a peaceful and compassionate Reconstruction. He ordered the pardon of Robert E Lee which was completed after his death, so Lee, instead of being in prison, became a college professor. Lincoln sent a secret message to Jefferson Davis to exile himself from the US and they then wonât come after him. Davis stupidly refused, but only did some prison time and then spent the rest of his life in a peaceful plantation.
I have always wondered about this.
Lincoln may have been "forgiving" but his biggest problem had they pursued treason charges against leading Confederates and tried them could have been that they may have been found not guilty because seccession was very likely provably legal at the time they did it......in which case what Lincoln and the Feds did was not. What a huge cluster that would have been.
No koolaid here just personal experience. Are you a Kkk member?
laffin
Sorry to disappoint you but no, I am not The klan has no relevance in today's political arena despite what the handlers from the divisive left are feeding you.... Wake up man..
Apparently still relevant in Tennessee. Why Bedford and not Cheatham or one of the other Generals from Tn?
No koolaid here just personal experience. Are you a Kkk member?
laffin
Sorry to disappoint you but no, I am not The klan has no relevance in today's political arena despite what the handlers from the divisive left are feeding you.... Wake up man..
Apparently still relevant in Tennessee. Why Bedford and not Cheatham or one of the other Generals from Tn?
Do your own homework, Bedford was a man of his times like we all are, Cheatham as well. Where he ended up far out weighs where he came from. That is the bottom line. If you want to pick and choose your own facts and make your own judgements there is not much that can be done to show you the reality of who he was. But hey, if it farthers your own cause then have at it.
All this talk of the KKK is ridiculous. There's at least 500 members of MS-13 for every member of the KKK in America,..and probably 500,000 Communists for every member of the KKK in America.
Whatever remnant of the KKK remains in America,...it's not one of America's problems.
No koolaid here just personal experience. Are you a Kkk member?
laffin
Sorry to disappoint you but no, I am not The klan has no relevance in today's political arena despite what the handlers from the divisive left are feeding you.... Wake up man..
Apparently still relevant in Tennessee. Why Bedford and not Cheatham or one of the other Generals from Tn?
Do your own homework, Bedford was a man of his times like we all are, Cheatham as well. Where he ended up far out weighs where he came from. That is the bottom line. If you want to pick and choose your own facts and make your own judgements there is not much that can be done to show you the reality of who he was. But hey, if it farthers your own cause then have at it.
I have no cause other than not dishonoring my ancestor's sacrifices. Singling out Forrest, while knowing his association with the KKK dishonors their memory.
I grew up studying the history of the War Between the States and visiting battlefields growing up. I have done my homework.
The entire left in America has gone Communist,..and people are squabbling about the last living 14 members of the KKK in America,....slobbering up pablum at some nursing home in Alabama.
I have no cause other than not dishonoring my ancestor's sacrifices. Singling out Forrest, while knowing his association with the KKK dishonors their memory.
Really stupid and pointless move on the part of Cruz. As RJY already stated the KKK has existed in various forms but the one Forrest led was righteous in their forming and in their actions. Not to mention the fact that he was a commissioned officer and brave soldier of the Confederate Army.
That is a part of history. To disavow it is criminal.
I have no cause other than not dishonoring my ancestor's sacrifices. Singling out Forrest, while knowing his association with the KKK dishonors their memory.
I'm quite certain they would disagree.
No they wouldn't. Fortunately my ancestors were able to write and leave their thoughts.
I have no cause other than not dishonoring my ancestor's sacrifices. Singling out Forrest, while knowing his association with the KKK dishonors their memory.
I'm quite certain they would disagree.
No they wouldn't. Fortunately my ancestors were able to write and leave their thoughts.
Now you're bullshittin' for sure. I thought so from the beginning.
I have no cause other than not dishonoring my ancestor's sacrifices. Singling out Forrest, while knowing his association with the KKK dishonors their memory.
I'm quite certain they would disagree.
No they wouldn't. Fortunately my ancestors were able to write and leave their thoughts.
Now you're bullshittin' for sure. I thought so from the beginning.
Internet toughguy. My great grandfather was a doctor in later life and well educated. He left writings as part of his legacy.
I have no cause other than not dishonoring my ancestor's sacrifices. Singling out Forrest, while knowing his association with the KKK dishonors their memory.
I'm quite certain they would disagree.
No they wouldn't. Fortunately my ancestors were able to write and leave their thoughts.
Now you're bullshittin' for sure. I thought so from the beginning.
Internet toughguy. My great grandfather was a doctor in later life and well educated. He left writings as part of his legacy.
Christ can forgive a lot of sins. Considering the atrocities committed by Forrest and his men at Ft. Pillow and later as grand wizard of the KKK, Jesus did a lot of forgiving.
"Considering the atrocities committed by Forrest and his men at Ft. Pillow"
B ULLS HIT!!
They captured 300 Union soldiers, then murdered them. Who else has done such a thing? Santa Ana at Goliad. Are you in favor of him, too?
That is an absolute lie. I have been to Fort Pillow and also read numerous contemporary accounts of the battle. Yes, there was a lot of more than usual disdain for the Union garrison for several good reasons that are well documented. First off, the garrison was composed of "Tennessee Yankees", those from Tennessee that chose to fight against their own people. Think of a Frenchman that willingly joined the German army in WW II. Loyalty to the Union seldom had anything to do with it. Having an excuse to rob and plunder your neighbors and continue family disputes did. It was common for any Confederate troops on furlough to their homes that were captured by these troops to have suffered brutal torture before being murdered by this trash. Many such Confederates were found left on roadsides or at their homes castrated, beheaded, and disemboweled by these Yankee scum. There were reports of many area women raped by them, local farms constantly looted, etc. Granted, I am sure not all Union troops at Ft.Pillow were guilty of such, but the fact is that the Union officers did not care and made no effort to curtail any such activity. Many reports of such had been made to Confederate authorities asking for help. Additionally, a good portion of the garrison was composed of escaped slaves that had joined the Union army. Frankly, in those times that did not set too well with many, north or south; especially south. Gen. Forrest never gave any such orders as to the killing of any prisoners whatsoever. In fact Forrest did not arrive on the scene until near the end of the battle. The Confederates on several occasions offered for the Yanks to surrender when it was obvious they had lost the battle. They refused. One problem was that the Union commander was killed soon after the battle started. Another factor was that the Yanks were hoping they could get awy to cover under a bluff on the river and Union gunboats would save them with cannon fire. That did not happen. Another factor was that the Yanks knew how they had been treating - terrorizing - the citizens and were afraid of being subjected to similar treatment. When these facts are considered, what the Hell do you think the common soldier, especially Confederate soldiers mostly from western Tennessee, are going to be prone to do? Probably have a tendency to slay the enemy with Biblical intensity would be my guess. Forrest did stop the fighting and afterwards, he sent a signal to the nearby Union gunboats to send medical aid to the wounded Union soldiers, black and white. These wounded were allowed to be taken to the Union boats. Only the uninjured were held as prisoners of war by the Confederates. Much ado was reported in some Yankee newspapers about the "Ft. Pillow Massacre". After the war the U.S. government held a formal hearing about this which included U. S. general William T. Sherman who absolutely hated Forrest. This is the same Sherman that burned down much of Mississippi, Georgia, and the Carolinas and made war on women and children. Sherman and other Union officers after lengthy investigation and interviews with many eye witnesses concluded that there was no massacre at Ft. Pillow. So, if any of y'all don't want to believe any of us southerners, maybe you should believe that damned bastard Sherman about it. He was salivating at the opportunity to hang Forrest, but could find no fault in him about it.
Christ can forgive a lot of sins. Considering the atrocities committed by Forrest and his men at Ft. Pillow and later as grand wizard of the KKK, Jesus did a lot of forgiving.
"Considering the atrocities committed by Forrest and his men at Ft. Pillow"
B ULLS HIT!!
They captured 300 Union soldiers, then murdered them. Who else has done such a thing? Santa Ana at Goliad. Are you in favor of him, too?
That is an absolute lie. I have been to Fort Pillow and also read numerous contemporary accounts of the battle. Yes, there was a lot of more than usual disdain for the Union garrison for several good reasons that are well documented. First off, the garrison was composed of "Tennessee Yankees", those from Tennessee that chose to fight against their own people. Think of a Frenchman that willingly joined the German army in WW II. Loyalty to the Union seldom had anything to do with it. Having an excuse to rob and plunder your neighbors and continue family disputes did. It was common for any Confederate troops on furlough to their homes that were captured by these troops to have suffered brutal torture before being murdered by this trash. Many such Confederates were found left on roadsides or at their homes castrated, beheaded, and disemboweled by these Yankee scum. There were reports of many area women raped by them, local farms constantly looted, etc. Granted, I am sure not all Union troops at Ft.Pillow were guilty of such, but the fact is that the Union officers did not care and made no effort to curtail any such activity. Many reports of such had been made to Confederate authorities asking for help. Additionally, a good portion of the garrison was composed of escaped slaves that had joined the Union army. Frankly, in those times that did not set too well with many, north or south; especially south. Gen. Forrest never gave any such orders as to the killing of any prisoners whatsoever. In fact Forrest did not arrive on the scene until near the end of the battle. The Confederates on several occasions offered for the Yanks to surrender when it was obvious they had lost the battle. They refused. One problem was that the Union commander was killed soon after the battle started. Another factor was that the Yanks were hoping they could get awy to cover under a bluff on the river and Union gunboats would save them with cannon fire. That did not happen. Another factor was that the Yanks knew how they had been treating - terrorizing - the citizens and were afraid of being subjected to similar treatment. When these facts are considered, what the Hell do you think the common soldier, especially Confederate soldiers mostly from western Tennessee, are going to be prone to do? Probably have a tendency to slay the enemy with Biblical intensity would be my guess. Forrest did stop the fighting and afterwards, he sent a signal to the nearby Union gunboats to send medical aid to the wounded Union soldiers, black and white. These wounded were allowed to be taken to the Union boats. Only the uninjured were held as prisoners of war by the Confederates. Much ado was reported in some Yankee newspapers about the "Ft. Pillow Massacre". After the war the U.S. government held a formal hearing about this which included U. S. general William T. Sherman who absolutely hated Forrest. This is the same Sherman that burned down much of Mississippi, Georgia, and the Carolinas and made war on women and children. Sherman and other Union officers after lengthy investigation and interviews with many eye witnesses concluded that there was no massacre at Ft. Pillow. So, if any of y'all don't want to believe any of us southerners, maybe you should believe that damned bastard Sherman about it. He was salivating at the opportunity to hang Forrest, but could find no fault in him about it.
^^^This^^^
Forrest's tactics are still studied by War Colleges world wide. Was one of the few to actively mainstreaming the freed slaves after the war.
I've long admired General Forrest. One of the few really great commanders of a war that saw many good ones. No matter your personal opinion, the man knew how to fight. As noted above, his tactics are still studied today. He should be admired and remembered for this if nothing else. His personal bravery as well. Forrest had 29 horses shot from under him, and killed 30 enemy combatants. He himself said he "ended the war a horse ahead". As an adolescent he hunted down a cougar that had stalked his mother. He rescued his future wife from a flooding River, afterwards "coach whipping" the men standing around laughing. The man had cast iron balls. No one now living knows how much involved he was with the slaughter at Ft Pillow. Those who admire him say he tried to stop it. Those who detest him say he was responsible. Even at the time, the stories conflicted so much that the Union Army decided not to pursue charges. By all accounts I've read, he detested the terrorist tactics of the KKK, and tried to distance himself from it after he found out the truth. Of the mourners at his funeral, there were numbered 3000 blacks. If the man was racists, he must have hid it very well. He treated people with respect and courtesy, regardless. Another thing we should all learn from the General. Whatever the truth, somehow I think the General would laugh at this whizzing contest by a bunch of half azzed, half informed Bozos with keyboards. 7mm
I've long admired General Forrest. One of the few really great commanders of a war that saw many good ones. No matter your personal opinion, the man knew how to fight. As noted above, his tactics are still studied today. He should be admired and remembered for this if nothing else. His personal bravery as well. Forrest had 29 horses shot from under him, and killed 30 enemy combatants. He himself said he "ended the war a horse ahead". As an adolescent he hunted down a cougar that had stalked his mother. He rescued his future wife from a flooding River, afterwards "coach whipping" the men standing around laughing. The man had cast iron balls. No one now living knows how much involved he was with the slaughter at Ft Pillow. Those who admire him say he tried to stop it. Those who detest him say he was responsible. Even at the time, the stories conflicted so much that the Union Army decided not to pursue charges. By all accounts I've read, he detested the terrorist tactics of the KKK, and tried to distance himself from it after he found out the truth. Of the mourners at his funeral, there were numbered 3000 blacks. If the man was racists, he must have hid it very well. He treated people with respect and courtesy, regardless. Another thing we should all learn from the General. Whatever the truth, somehow I think the General would laugh at this whizzing contest by a bunch of half azzed, half informed Bozos with keyboards. 7mm
Good post, even if you are north of the Mason-Dixon line.
The thing about this discussion is this......it's very evident to see that we're still fighting the War Between the States to one degree or another. The fact is that too many people are either ignorant, uniformed, stupid, or else have no desire to get the facts and know what really happened about something, before they write about it. Those who equate Forrest's name with the modern day KKK are a prime example.
This discussion reminds me somewhat of one that happened on here not long ago. There were posters that thought it was just fine for the Allies in WW2 to have bombed civilian targets, because those civilians were the enemy. But, on the other hand, the Nazis were wrong for their targeting of civilians. In other words......we won the war, so what we did was okay, the Germans lost, so we got to pass judgment.
Those on here who believe the Confederate states had no right to secede, and that every Southerner back then was a slaveholder, will always besmirch the name of Nathan Bedford Forrest. That's partly so because he pretty much whipped the Yankee's azzes at every turn, and is still widely considered by many to have been the best general on either side. The truth about who and what he was and did, means nothing to them, because he was a Confederate, and that's all that matters.
Then, there are those here who have actually took the time to read up on Forrest and find out everything we could about him. We know what the truth was, and the posts made by those people reflect that. This is a discussion that will be never ending, and one upon which the Fire will never be in agreement. And that's okay by me.
From the article, his speech as reported in the Memphis paper:
On July 5, 1875, Gen. Forrest was invited to speak at the Memphis convention of the Independent Order of Pole-Bearers Association (predecessor to the NAACP). The Association was organized by Southern blacks after the war to promote black voting rights, etc.
At this, his last public appearance, he made what the New York Times described as a "friendly speech" during which, when offered a bouquet of flowers by a black woman, he accepted them as a token of reconciliation between the races and espoused a radically progressive (for the time) agenda of equality and harmony between black and white Americans.
His speech was recorded in the Memphis Daily Appeal as follows:
"Ladies and Gentlemen I accept the flowers as a memento of reconciliation between the white and colored races of the southern states. I accept it more particularly as it comes from a colored lady, for if there is any one on God's earth who loves the ladies I believe it is myself. ( Immense applause and laughter.) This day is a day that is proud to me, having occupied the position that I did for the past twelve years, and been misunderstood by your race. This is the first opportunity I have had during that time to say that I am your friend. I am here a representative of the southern people, one more slandered and maligned than any man in the nation.
"I will say to you and to the colored race that men who bore arms and followed the flag of the Confederacy are, with very few exceptions, your friends. I have an opportunity of saying what I have always felt - that I am your friend, for my interests are your interests, and your interests are my interests. We were born on the same soil, breathe the same air, and live in the same land. Why, then, can we not live as brothers? I will say that when the war broke out I felt it my duty to stand by my people. When the time came I did the best I could, and I don't believe I flickered. I came here with the jeers of some white people, who think that I am doing wrong. I believe that I can exert some influence, and do much to assist the people in strengthening fraternal relations, and shall do all in my power to bring about peace. It has always been my motto to elevate every man- to depress none. (Applause.) I want to elevate you to take positions in law offices, in stores, on farms, and wherever you are capable of going.
"I have not said anything about politics today. I don't propose to say anything about politics. You have a right to elect whom you please; vote for the man you think best, and I think, when that is done, that you and I are freemen. Do as you consider right and honest in electing men for office. I did not come here to make you a long speech, although invited to do so by you. I am not much of a speaker, and my business prevented me from preparing myself. I came to meet you as friends, and welcome you to the white people. I want you to come nearer to us. When I can serve you I will do so. We have but one flag, one country; let us stand together. We may differ in color, but not in sentiment. Use your best judgement in selecting men for office and vote as you think right.
"Many things have been said about me which are wrong, and which white and black persons here, who stood by me through the war, can contradict. I have been in the heat of battle when colored men, asked me to protect them. I have placed myself between them and the bullets of my men, and told them they should be kept unharmed. Go to work, be industrious, live honestly and act truly, and when you are oppressed I'll come to your relief. I thank you, ladies and gentlemen, for this opportunity you have afforded me to be with you, and to assure you that I am with you in heart and in hand."
Whereupon, Forrest again thanked Miss Lewis for the bouquet and then gave her a kiss on the cheek. Such a kiss was unheard of in the society of those days, but it showed a token of respect and friendship between the general and the black community and did much to promote harmony among the citizens of Memphis.
When Forrest died in 1877 it is noteworthy that his funeral in Memphis was attended not only by thousands of whites and blacks. The funeral procession was over two miles long and was attended by over 10,000 area residents, including 3000 black citizens paying their respects.
good post, even if you are north of the Mason-Dixon line.
The thing about this discussion is this......it's very evident to see that we're still fighting the War Between the States to one degree or another.
Seems to me that the majority of the folks still fighting the War Between the States are the folks who fancy themselves "Southerners" rather than just plain "Americans" like me! And Kentucky was at best a border state, not a southern state. Some of us really need to get over ourselves. I think that after 150 years, Generals Lee, Longstreet, Jackson, Johnson and Forrest himself would agree with me. We Americans got enemies of our own, we ought to quit this stupid drawing of lines amongst ourselves. The folks taking down statues and burning Stars and Bars ain't "Yankees". They're grinding an axe aimed at Americans. You southern fellows need to remember this when you start to spout off about Yankees 7mm
good post, even if you are north of the Mason-Dixon line.
The thing about this discussion is this......it's very evident to see that we're still fighting the War Between the States to one degree or another.
Seems to me that the majority of the folks still fighting the War Between the States are the folks who fancy themselves "Southerners" rather than just plain "Americans" like me! And Kentucky was at best a border state, not a southern state. Some of us really need to get over ourselves. I think that after 150 years, Generals Lee, Longstreet, Jackson, Johnson and Forrest himself would agree with me. We Americans got enemies of our own, we ought to quit this stupid drawing of lines amongst ourselves. The folks taking down statues and burning Stars and Bars ain't "Yankees". They're grinding an axe aimed at Americans. You southern fellows need to remember this when you start to spout off about Yankees 7mm
LOL....the way I see it, and this thread is a prime example, it's always when a "southerner" posts something, that some "Yankee" wants to try and "correct" them. Nathan Bedford Forrest was much more than a founder of the KKK, as ANY person who has done their homework would know. Yet, then someone from the South posts about July 13 being Nathan Bedford Forrest day, some poster, who ironically happens to be from a state outside the South, just has to tear Forrest apart and write some untruths about him.
After 69 years here on this earth, I've found that people from the South are much better "educated" on the history of the War Between the States as are their counterparts from the North.
FYI, the original post is by Robert White, a personal friend of mine and a fellow Pennsylvanian! In my own experience, I know quite a few guys who are history buffs, but it's usually upbringing and factors like that as opposed to localities. On the campfire though, I find that the guys who consider themselves southerners THINK they know more. I'm a country boy. I take folks at face value and avoid reading things into folks unless they actively give me a reason. I can tell you that around here, I see a helluva lot more open carry (handgun) than I do "man buns"! I refuse to assume something about anyone based on locality. In my military service, I met more country boys from Michigan or Illinois than I did Texas or Georgia. Even California or Washington have there fair share of conservative country boys. As a matter of fact, I've found that considering yourself better than somebody else based on where you're from is usually the mark of an idiot. Wifey and I were shopping at a private owned shop in Wyoming. Nice stuff the guy had, and I struck up a conversation. I said we were from PA, and he kinda snarled "that's a good place to be FROM". Didn't take us long to put the items back and clear out. I'm an American. I'm lucky enough to live in rural Pennsylvania. Does that make me better than someone from San Francisco or Seattle or some other liberal place? I have traveled around enough to find proud freedom loving Americans in places you'd expect to find liberal snobs. Assumptions based on location tells me maybe that guy needs to get out more. 7mm
FYI, the original post is by Robert White, a personal friend of mine and a fellow Pennsylvanian! In my own experience, I know quite a few guys who are history buffs, but it's usually upbringing and factors like that as opposed to localities. On the campfire though, I find that the guys who consider themselves southerners THINK they know more. I'm a country boy. I take folks at face value and avoid reading things into folks unless they actively give me a reason. I can tell you that around here, I see a helluva lot more open carry (handgun) than I do "man buns"! I refuse to assume something about anyone based on locality. In my military service, I met more country boys from Michigan or Illinois than I did Texas or Georgia. Even California or Washington have there fair share of conservative country boys. As a matter of fact, I've found that considering yourself better than somebody else based on where you're from is usually the mark of an idiot. Wifey and I were shopping at a private owned shop in Wyoming. Nice stuff the guy had, and I struck up a conversation. I said we were from PA, and he kinda snarled "that's a good place to be FROM". Didn't take us long to put the items back and clear out. I'm an American. I'm lucky enough to live in rural Pennsylvania. Does that make me better than someone from San Francisco or Seattle or some other liberal place? I have traveled around enough to find proud freedom loving Americans in places you'd expect to find liberal snobs. Assumptions based on location tells me maybe that guy needs to get out more. 7mm
Ted Cruz is sniveling. Nathan Bedford Forrest, like Andrew Jackson, had no formal military training. He died a believing Christian, having come to redeeming faith in Christ after the war. He was a serious Presbyterian much like Stonewall Jackson. He had Grace in his heart and was an advocate for the downtrodden, even blacks in Memphis.
I refuse to denigrate any patriotic supporter of our nation and its constitution for standing for those things he feels compelled to stand for.
Im wondering if you have the mental capacity to remember why we can still have AR-15s and semiauto 22s? It seems most cant remember Sen D Feinsteins bill called the Assault Weapons Ban which was supported by the left, commies, traitors, Police Chiefs and police organizations, etc and was defeated by ONE man after a horrific mass murder event. He also is, iirc, the one person to thank responsible for you STILL being able to purchase a gun at a gun show.
Least you forgot: if you watch to the end, you will see the LEO he defeated in the push to destroy your 2A.
Regardless of whether you like Ted Cruz (I do) or not, he is without a doubt nobody's dummy. He was hammering those gun grabbers with facts as he usually does whenever he holds court. That is why his tweet about NBF, so unnecessary, so counterproductive, so factually dubious, and just plain dumb has me scratching my head.
I'm chalking it up to him having a bad day or just shooting from the hip. Leaving the 1860's for a moment and coming back to the present day, all he did was give ammo to the left's quest to destroy the system by destroying history, because they don't think much more if any higher of George Washington or Thomas Jefferson than they do the confederates and would gladly whitewash them from history as well.
I have no problem with honoring All our historical figures. Nathan Bedford Forrest was an honorable man and fought to the best of his ability for the cause he believed in. Lincoln saved the union from being dissolved and lost his life for it. His successor was responsible for the mayhem that followed during reconstruction and the hatred that it bred continues to this day. It serves no good purpose to reopen old wounds.
We either stand together against the onslaught of Communism or submit to it while we settle old arguments. Our History is rich and we are the better for it. Whether Ted Cruz spoke justly or not is beside the point. It is a loose/loose situation because the left will destroy any argument about the true history behind the KKK.. They'll drown out any attempt to promote the true history about anything that doesn't fit their agenda.
I like Ted Cruz, he was my choice for the GOP's presidential nominee until Trump won. He is a smart guy, he is a supporter of our gun rights, and more importantly, he is a Constitutionalist.
However.....and this is something of a repeat of a previous post on this thread.....Cruz is no different from the majority of Republican politicians, in that they are stupid enough to think that if they pander to Blacks, Hispanics, queers, and any other kook group, they will get some of their votes. In other words, he is a 100% politician, in that the quest for votes overrides all else.
I like Ted Cruz, he was my choice for the GOP's presidential nominee until Trump won. He is a smart guy, he is a supporter of our gun rights, and more importantly, he is a Constitutionalist.
However.....and this is something of a repeat of a previous post on this thread.....Cruz is no different from the majority of Republican politicians, in that they are stupid enough to think that if they pander to Blacks, Hispanics, queers, and any other kook group, they will get some of their votes. In other words, he is a 100% politician, in that the quest for votes overrides all else.
Given Cruzâs background I donât think he places any special reverance on the confederacy. There was the spat above about who knew the most about civil war history. The distinction isnât who knows the most history but in how itâs viewed. Northerners seem to view the war as distant history when southerners tend to fit the old Faulkner quote about the âpast not being history, it isnât even in the pastâ
I was born more than 100 years after war ended and even then it and reconstruction were constantly referenced when I was a kid to the point that in the early 1980s my grandmothers church fired the new preacher for playing battle hymn of the republic during a service. We spent several weeks in school each year covering the war and it was always expressed by the teacher as âusâ vs âthemâ. Most people that grew up in the south probably had it pretty similar, so to us the war seems a lot more relevant and recent.
We see the split on here about whether people should consider themselves Americans or southerners first, when you think about it thatâs the same primary split that people had in the 1860s when they chose sides
The disconnect that guys like Cruz, Mark Levin, and so many on this board have is that they revere Lincoln and donât realize or acknowledge that he destroyed the Constitution and the Republic to save the Union. They donât see that every governmental excess since then can be traced directly to the powers gained by the federal government and lost by the states in that war. The most important check of the mythical checks and balances of our Constitution was lost in that war. The states no longer have any power or independent authority whatsoever except that power or authority that one branch or the other of the federal government allows them to have as that the sole arbiter of what is and what is not constitutional is the federal government.
And it really wasnât a secret back then as to how things changed and where it would lead. Robert E. Lee diagnosed where it would lead in his letters to Lord Acton after the war. And Karl Marx was ecstatic about the union victory, considered Lincoln to be the greatest man of the age, and wrote him several congratulatory letters to which Lincoln responded.
The disconnect that guys like Cruz, Mark Levin, and so many on this board have is that they revere Lincoln and donât realize or acknowledge that he destroyed the Constitution and the Republic to save the Union. They donât see that every governmental excess since then can be traced directly to the powers gained by the federal government and lost by the states in that war. The most important check of the mythical checks and balances of our Constitution was lost in that war. The states no longer have any power or independent authority whatsoever except that power or authority that one branch or the other of the federal government allows them to have as that the sole arbiter of what is and what is not constitutional is the federal government.
And it really wasnât a secret back then as to how things changed and where it would lead. Robert E. Lee diagnosed where it would lead in his letters to Lord Acton after the war. And Karl Marx was ecstatic about the union victory, considered Lincoln to be the greatest man of the age, and wrote him several congratulatory letters to which Lincoln responded.
Threads like this remind me of how miraculous a thing it was that our ancestors who actually killed each other were able to patch this thing up so quickly.
And yet today some people want to keep the enmity alive, even though it was long ago and we were not involved.
Threads like this remind me of how miraculous a thing it was that our ancestors who actually killed each other were able to patch this thing up so quickly.
And yet today some people want to keep the enmity alive, even though it was long ago and we were not involved.
of course I forgot about the ones who just enjoy the whizzing contest! 7mm
I think it was James Carville who said that central rural PA is actually Lower Alabama... I think it is true! Except that the demographic of central rural PA is nearly 99 percent white. At least it seems that way to me! Ha!
The disconnect that guys like Cruz, Mark Levin, and so many on this board have is that they revere Lincoln and donât realize or acknowledge that he destroyed the Constitution and the Republic to save the Union. They donât see that every governmental excess since then can be traced directly to the powers gained by the federal government and lost by the states in that war. The most important check of the mythical checks and balances of our Constitution was lost in that war. The states no longer have any power or independent authority whatsoever except that power or authority that one branch or the other of the federal government allows them to have as that the sole arbiter of what is and what is not constitutional is the federal government.
And it really wasnât a secret back then as to how things changed and where it would lead. Robert E. Lee diagnosed where it would lead in his letters to Lord Acton after the war. And Karl Marx was ecstatic about the union victory, considered Lincoln to be the greatest man of the age, and wrote him several congratulatory letters to which Lincoln responded.
Excellent post.
I agree! Lee's letter to Lord Acton was prophetic. The death of the 10th amendment was the death of the American experiment, and the birth of... despotism at home, aggression abroad. Red Republicans and Lincoln's Marxists... a must read. Really shocked me!
The disconnect that guys like Cruz, Mark Levin, and so many on this board have is that they revere Lincoln and donât realize or acknowledge that he destroyed the Constitution and the Republic to save the Union. They donât see that every governmental excess since then can be traced directly to the powers gained by the federal government and lost by the states in that war. The most important check of the mythical checks and balances of our Constitution was lost in that war. The states no longer have any power or independent authority whatsoever except that power or authority that one branch or the other of the federal government allows them to have as that the sole arbiter of what is and what is not constitutional is the federal government.
And it really wasnât a secret back then as to how things changed and where it would lead. Robert E. Lee diagnosed where it would lead in his letters to Lord Acton after the war. And Karl Marx was ecstatic about the union victory, considered Lincoln to be the greatest man of the age, and wrote him several congratulatory letters to which Lincoln responded.
This is such an excellent post it is worthy of quoting twice. If anybody can document a "mainstream" conservative" talking head or elected official staking his life and career on the 10th amendment or Lee's letter to Acton please let me know. I never hear the argument made. Never. Trump called Lincoln a great Statesman. (!)
The only people who invoke such core principles are radicals not welcome in polite (pc) society.
A few things after reading most of this thread. Mostly personal opinion and likely worth what you'll pay for it.
-Sherman didn't hate Forrest after the war. He even recommended him to lead military action in Cuba sometime after the war. During the war, he would have gladly seen him hanging on the end of a rope or the end of his saber, but I'm still not sure "hate" played into it with Sherman.
Sherman was a different individual. Burning the South was a mean to end the war. Most on this site are all about incinerating an enemy (like we should have done North Vietnam) to bring wars to a swift end, yet some still condemn Sherman for doing what he could (bring misery upon the Southern populace) to end the war. He wasn't going to try to be fair or civilized about it from the get go. The day the war ended, it seems Sherman hung up his animosity along with his saber (if you do much further reading).
-The Battle of Ft. Pillow was a military route. A Southern victory in a theatre where Southern victories were few and far between (and usually involved Forrest). The "massacre" part was Union propaganda B.S. then and Leftist propaganda B.S. now.
Forrest told them to surrender or every man of them would be put to the sword (his usual ultimatum). Yankees kept shooting. They were put to the sword. Maybe some Yankee West Point grad on here can tell me how that's a war crime.
-150 years later and some in the South keep trying to fight the Civil War (like there was anything good about it), and snowflakes keep being snowflakes. This ain't the first time the left has had it's pink panties in a wad over the good General.
-The country was going to split either way. Lincoln could let it split, or try to keep it together. He chose the latter. He wound up with a war he decided to try to win. Yes, the country lost liberties we've not gained back since. That started with the Whiskey Rebellion and has continued through 9-11. Seems to go along with having a government.
You wouldn't know a real Commie if he kicked you in the ass. How could Lincoln be something that was not even in existence?
The Communist Manifesto was written in 1848, many of the officers/generals of the G.A.R. were European immigrants who subscribed to the communist ideology.
Lincoln was not and could not have been a Bolshevik âThe Bolsheviks, also known in English as the Bolshevists, were a faction founded by Vladimir Lenin and Alexander Bogdanov that split from the Menshevik faction of the Marxist Russian Social Democratic Labour Party at its Second Party Congress in 1903.â
A few things after reading most of this thread. Mostly personal opinion and likely worth what you'll pay for it.
-Sherman didn't hate Forrest after the war. He even recommended him to lead military action in Cuba sometime after the war. During the war, he would have gladly seen him hanging on the end of a rope or the end of his saber, but I'm still not sure "hate" played into it with Sherman.
Sherman was a different individual. Burning the South was a mean to end the war. Most on this site are all about incinerating an enemy (like we should have done North Vietnam) to bring wars to a swift end, yet some still condemn Sherman for doing what he could (bring misery upon the Southern populace) to end the war. He wasn't going to try to be fair or civilized about it from the get go. The day the war ended, it seems Sherman hung up his animosity along with his saber (if you do much further reading).
-The Battle of Ft. Pillow was a military route. A Southern victory in a theatre where Southern victories were few and far between (and usually involved Forrest). The "massacre" part was Union propaganda B.S. then and Leftist propaganda B.S. now.
Forrest told them to surrender or every man of them would be put to the sword (his usual ultimatum). Yankees kept shooting. They were put to the sword. Maybe some Yankee West Point grad on here can tell me how that's a war crime.
-150 years later and some in the South keep trying to fight the Civil War (like there was anything good about it), and snowflakes keep being snowflakes. This ain't the first time the left has had it's pink panties in a wad over the good General.
-The country was going to split either way. Lincoln could let it split, or try to keep it together. He chose the latter. He wound up with a war he decided to try to win. Yes, the country lost liberties we've not gained back since. That started with the Whiskey Rebellion and has continued through 9-11. Seems to go along with having a government.
And what so many of you havenât figured out is that it is better to lose your country than your liberties. Your government exists to maintain your liberties. When it doesnât do that, it is literally worse than useless.
You wouldn't know a real Commie if he kicked you in the ass. How could Lincoln be something that was not even in existence?
The Communist Manifesto was written in 1848, many of the officers/generals of the G.A.R. were European immigrants who subscribed to the communist ideology.
Lincoln was not and could not have been a Bolshevik âThe Bolsheviks, also known in English as the Bolshevists, were a faction founded by Vladimir Lenin and Alexander Bogdanov that split from the Menshevik faction of the Marxist Russian Social Democratic Labour Party at its Second Party Congress in 1903.â
Yet some on these pages have called him that...
In a technical sense true... but ... The 1848 socialist revolutionaries fled Europe, especially German states and made their way to America and Lincoln gave them commissions. See bio of Carl Schurz. They were Marxists.
Craig S. Lerner George Mason University - Antonin Scalia Law School, Faculty Date Written: May 2004 Abstract Daniel Farberâs Lincolnâs Constitution is framed around two broad issues: First, did the South have the right--either under the Constitution or some higher law--to secede; or, as Lincoln argued, is âperpetuity . . . implied . . . in the fundamental law of all national governmentsâ? Second, were Lincoln's actions to preserve the Union consistent with the Constitution; or did he exceed the powers delegated to him as the chief executive?
Farber in large part defends Lincolnâs acts as President. He writes, âIt was Lincoln's character--his ability, judgment, courage, and humanity--that brought the Union through the war with the Constitution intact.â But this assumes that Lincoln saved the Constitution, rather than destroyed it. If the Constitution was originally a voluntary association of separate sovereigns, then he illegally engrossed the nation in a war that claimed over six hundred thousand lives. We may add violations of civil liberties to his sins, although at that point it would be hard to plunge his reputation any farther into disgrace. On the other hand, if Lincoln was right that the Constitution foreclosed secession and authorized the use of force to suppress any such movement, the entire problem of civil liberties needs to be re-gauged.
The Review concludes that the Founders did not regard secession as a constitutional right, but also that they could not have imagined that the federal government under the Constitution they had created would be so strong and so motivated as to prevent one-third of the states from withdrawing and reconstituting a government. Lincoln himself anticipated that a Union victory in the Civil War would give rise to a ânew birth of freedom,â and he essentially cast himself in the role of a founder.
The principles on which the Lincolnian regime were to be founded were not identical to those of the original regime, for most importantly the scourge of slavery would be eliminated. In this respect, as well as in laying the framework for a decisive shift in the relative power of the state and Federal Governments, it is perhaps not quite correct to say, as Farber does, that Lincoln âsavedâ the Constitution: he transformed it.
The Review concludes that the Founders did not regard secession as a constitutional right,
When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Natureâs God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.
It's totally obvious that the Founding Fathers recognized that occasionally it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another.
The Review concludes that the Founders did not regard secession as a constitutional right,
When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Natureâs God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.
It's totally obvious that the Founding Fathers recognized that occasionally it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another.
The American Revolution was an act of secession.
Absolutely.
And Virginia ratified with the declared right to withdraw later if need be.
of course I forgot about the ones who just enjoy the whizzing contest! 7mm
I think it was James Carville who said that central rural PA is actually Lower Alabama... I think it is true! Except that the demographic of central rural PA is nearly 99 percent white. At least it seems that way to me! Ha!
Around here, we all refer to it as Pennsyltucky! fits as well as anything else. It ain't just central PA. Anyplace that ain't a city, rural PA, NJ, NY. You'll find us country boys anywhere. I bet Jamesjr or any of the "southerners" would fit right in here. The only prerequisite I can think of is a love of guns, hunting, beer, and God! I think JoeBob has nailed it. He's got a pretty good grasp, other than calling me a Yankee! 7mm
The Virginia Ratification (Federal) Convention made a final vote on George Wythe's motion to ratify, passing it 89 to 79. Virginians reserved the right to withdraw from the new government as "the People of the United States", "whenever the powers granted unto it should be perverted to their injury or oppression," but it also held that failings in the Constitution should be remedied by amendment
Ratification of the Constitution by the State of Virginia; June 26, 1788. (1) Virginia to wit
We the Delegates of the People of Virginia duly elected in pursuance of a recommendation from the General Assembly and now met in Convention having fully and freely investigated and discussed the proceedings of the Federal Convention and being prepared as well as the most mature deliberation hath enabled us to decide thereon Do in the name and in behalf of the People of Virginia declare and make known that the powers granted under the Constitution being derived from the People of the United States may be resumed by them whensoever the same shall be perverted to their injury or oppression and that every power not granted thereby remains with them and at their will: that therefore no right of any denomination can be cancelled abridged restrained or modified by the Congress by the Senate or House of Representatives acting in any Capacity by the President or any Department or Officer of the United States except in those instances in which power is given by the Constitution for those purposes: & that among other essential rights the liberty of Conscience and of the Press cannot be cancelled abridged restrained or modified by any authority of the United States. With these impressions with a solemn appeal to the Searcher of hearts for the purity of our intentions and under the conviction that whatsoever imperfections may exist in the Constitution ought rather to be examined in the mode prescribed therein than to bring the Union into danger by a delay with a hope of obtaining Amendments previous to the Ratification, We the said Delegates in the name and in behalf of the People of Virginia do by these presents assent to and ratify the Constitution recommended on the seventeenth day of September one thousand seven hundred and eighty seven by the Federal Convention for the Government of the United States hereby announcing to all those whom it may concern that the said Constitution is binding upon the said People according to an authentic Copy hereto annexed in the Words following; .
Done in Convention this twenty Sixth day of June one thousand seven hundred and eighty eight
of course I forgot about the ones who just enjoy the whizzing contest! 
fits as well as anything else. It ain't just central PA. Anyplace that ain't a city, rural PA, NJ, NY. You'll find us country boys anywhere. I bet Jamesjr or any of the "southerners" would fit right in here. The only prerequisite I can think of is a love of guns, hunting, beer, and God!