Morbid topics seem hot on the 'fire just now. We made a new will a few years ago.

Trusts are something I do not understand so well. There must be many types, what is gained by a trust?

Lots of money if you are the beneficiary.

Wills are made to be broken.

you're not goin anywhere loonie

Where there's a will, there's a way.

I'm not an expert, but if your total assets are above a million or two, you really need a trust. One main benefit of a trust is that in the event of the death of one trustee, all the assets are still available to the other(s) without probate or delay to process the will.

Ours was set up by a trust lawyer several years ago. He set up the trust, wills, living wills, and powers of attorney for us.

Been dealing a lot with wills, trusts and estate issues here lately.

One conclusion everyone involved has come to is that financial advisors like for instance "Edward Jones" type people are only out for themselves.

Do NOT give the free reign to swap investments, etc.... Because in a market that has a pretty flat interest rate payout right now, the only one making money on these transactions are THEM.

Investment bankers get paid win, lose or draw.

Pretty late in life to be estate planning.

I suppose late is better than up an croaking and leaving a huge mess for your grown children. Like so many other selfish, childish old people do.

Grown children have their own things to worry about like raising kids and college planning and living within their means.

Last thing they need is for "the farm" to be tied up in probate. Or worse, having sort through every friggin mustard and pickle jar someone hoarded over a lifetime.

Trust is the way to go. Cost more initially, but saves the survivors a lot of money and headaches. A Will, is a money maker for everyone except the survivors.
Spend a little, money talk to an Estate Attorney. It will be money well spent. Our's cost about $1500.00, chump change if you have any kind of net worth and we don't.
We, have no children so we set up the trust so the surviving spouse and our parents would be provided for.

jmo

arky

As long as you and your spouse are still alive it's never too late to do estate planning. You lose some tax benefits if you plan after the death of one spouse though.

+1 on hiring a good estate planning atty.

We had a trust set up 18 months ago. There is a will within the trust.
Talk to some friends and get a recommendation for an attorney that specializes in wills and trusts and let him/her help you decide what you need.
Depending on complexity, the cost varies quite a bit.

KISS

Your basic documents for your final days on earth are the will (for when you die) and the advanced medical directive (sometimes called a living will) primarily for your medical affairs and a durable power of attorney primarily for your financial affairs. Both of the latter are for when you are still alive.

Here's a link: https://modernsurvivalblog.com/health/basic-legal-preparedness/

Any trust comes after these. Only about a third pf people out there have wills in place and its these that cause the largest angina in the survivors.

In many states if you die without a will all assets go to the state. That alone is reason enough to do estate planning.

also estate planning can eliminate estate taxes in most cases. That will depend on your location.

Just because you have a will does not mean that all is taken care of. As laws are changed your legal docs. need to change.

That's just not so.

If you die and are single, and die intestate, and have no traceable living kinfolk no matter how far removed... maybe.

But to state if someone dies without a will within some states, the estate goes to the state, is just in error.


The far, far worse thievery is known as the Estate Tax, or Inheritance Tax.

wabigoon;
Good morning to you my friend, I hope all is well with you and the weather is suitable for harvest if that's where you're at.

Wills and estate planning in general are a bit of a "thing" with me and I'll talk to anyone who will listen about them, mainly because I've been involved with too many instances of bad or no wills in the last few years.

Honestly I believe that the most unselfish thing we can do to our heirs is to do proper estate planning.

Speaking from personal experience, when we are dealing with all the details of a loved one dying, the very last thing we need to worry about is whether or not they had a plan in place to disburse the estate.

Up here we've got a split between the financial part of a living will - power of attorney - and the medical care of the individual - representation agreement. That's a fairly recent wrinkle, but also a vital part of keeping the process as simple as possible for all involved.

Another thing which I tell folks is that we all assume the will and estate planning will be a straight forward, "I'm dead and they get my stuff", but what happens if I have a debilitating stroke and end up comatose for months or years?

I believe it's important to have a plan in place so my kids don't have to take a second mortgage out in order to keep the lights on at my place while I'm plugged in at the local hospital, no?

Anyway sir, work is calling so off I go, but I'll check in later on tonight to see where this goes. It is, in my view anyway wabigoon, something we all need to deal with and talk about with those who we'll be leaving behind.

Have a good day sir and Lord willing we'll check in tonight.

Dwayne

PS
IF the Lord calls me today, we have solid wills in place as well as the kids having all the contact info for our life insurance, bank accounts, safe combinations etc....

In other words, I'm in no hurry to go wabigoon, but I am ready!!!

The purposes of a trust generally are to avoid taxes, avoid probate or hold funds for someone who has diminished capacity for some reason. If your estate is more than $5m individually or $10m married, then you would be a candidate for a trust. If you need the trust to hold funds for children or someone who can't look out for him or herself, then you'd be a candidate for a trust.

Avoiding probate? For the most part, you're avoiding nothing. The effort and costs and fees put into creating the trust will generally equal the effort and cost and fees laid out for a probate, in my fairly extensive experience. Its six of one, and half a dozen of the other.

Trusts don't magically save any headaches. They can be and often are messed up in their creation and over the lifetime of the Trustor and result in the same disagreements over time. They are not a magic pill by any stretch of the imagination.

Don't put anything into an 'Estate'!

Lawyers love 'em!!

Treasure hunt. A little housecleaning never hurt an inheritor

a will is basically useless for the most part. The problem with a will is it must be adjudicated. That means a court,ie the probate court has to make a ruling and say yes the will is valid and that is what is going to happen. I recommend a will for personal things, like say guns, jewelry. basically anything there is not "title" to.

the purpose of a trust is mainly so that assets can be transferred beyond someone's death. Think of a trust is a contract with a set of instructions that define who manages it and who benefits from it. Its a document that isn't filed anywhere but defines and holds title to things. So lets say your house is your primary assset. Without a will the court will define who is getting what % of it. With a will the court is still going to have to enforce what the will says. HOWEVER if a trust is set up before you die. What you do is transfer title of the property into the trust. A COMMON MISTAKE WITH A TRUST IS ASSETS DON'T ACTUALLY GET TRANSFERRED INTO IT!! This has to be done with the recorders office. Title of the property must be in the name of the trust. That way in order to do anything with the property if its in a trust. you simply take the trust docs with you to the title company. They look who it says is the trustee and the trustee can sign for the sale of the property. There is NO court proceeding to make this happen. The trustee can open bank accounts in the name of the trust. They have `100% control of the asset, but still maintain a fiduciary responsibility to the beneficiaries of the trust.

bank accounts, retirement accounts etc. This can be done 2 ways you can actually have them transferred into the name of the trust. OR you can have the trust be the beneficiary upon death. again this needs to be done at the bank prior. A will can be made so that it direct certain personal things to be given to the trust upon death. Many couples have their things be given to the trust upon their death. however those things would again have to be adjudicated if challenged by potential heirs.

trusts can be used for asset protection, ie irrevocable trusts, or for tax purposes.

what other questions do you have?

Best to think of a trust as a conduit for funnelling money from one person(s) or entity to another.
The "pipe" protects the money from taxes, creditors, the time and expense of probate, and lawsuits.
Whether it's for you is the subject of a conversation with an attorney.

Or worse, having sort through every friggin mustard and pickle jar someone hoarded over a lifetime.

Years ago my Mother was asked to help pick up clean up after the death of the wife of long - LONG term family friends.
They were all folks that had lived through the depression and thus did just as slumlord mentioned.
They had to fan through every magazine, book and dump every little knick-knack to collect all the cash hidden within.
I like so many others, just keep saying that "I need to get on to the paperwork".
Mañana is not good estate planning at any age, but especially not at my age (and the age of many here).

You yourself are a legal entity.

When you create a trust, you create a new legal entity separate from yourself where you, if you're the trustee, can specify what happens to the assets in the trust.

Most trusts terminate upon the death of the trustee, BUT not always.

Laws are in place in several states that allow for perpetual trusts. I believe South Dakota lead the way here. So, if you have substantial assets, they can remain in the trust indefinitely, even after your passing.

For example. Richard places the western half of Iowa he owns into a perpetual trust. Upon his death, the only thing that happens is he is removed as a trustee. Other trustees remain or successor trustees can be added.

Each state & country has different laws. In Georgia you are wasting your time & money to set up a trust because of the way our probate law works.

How does it work? And what would you suggest for the state of GA?

I really don't know but my wife cleared probate for her mothers million dollar estate with a copy of the will in less than 30 minutes.

Our personal attorney reviewed our 20 year old will last year & said it was fine didn't need a trust.

This exactly.

Plus trusts must be maintained for changing circumstances and there's a will to catch any part of the estate that escapes the trust and you need to probate that anyway. Probate isn't a big deal for the usual estate though it takes a few months with the notice requirements.

probate can take months or years, it costs money and the courts decide. Lets say mom or dad passes away. Lets say its the dad that passes and the mom hasn't yet. but the dad had children from a prior marriage. In texas if there was a home and the dad owned it prior to marriage that is separate property and ALL of it goes to the children and mom is kicked out of the house. In Utah 1/3 to 1/2 goes to the kids. Also in utah even if mom and dad bought the home together then it still has to be split with a portion going to the children. I have to ask do you want your wife booted from the home so the kids get some money before both parents have passed? most people would day no!.


how about dad died 5 years ago and now mom dies. If there is no trust or other estate planning vehicle. the kids are having to write a check for probably 15k for the funeral. That is even if there are plenty of funds in moms bank account. No one will have access to those funds until it clears probate, which will be longer than it takes for a funeral. However if a trust is set up. What you do is set up yourself and your spouse as co trustee's, appoint one of your kids or whomever as a successor trustee. That means mom and dad remain in control until BOTH die. That way when there is a death the co trustee OR the successor trustee (if both are dead) takes the trust in to the bank and has access to all funds. provided they are in the name of the trust, OR the trust is the beneficiary. (will need to show death certificate) Then the trustee will have authority to use the funds to pay for burial. make decisions with the real estate assets. and distribute funds from the assets.

a will must be adjudicated, that means a judge must rule on its validity, They also have to rule that what happens in the will is what happens. You can't show up to the bank and wave a will around and say give me the money! you can't go to the title company and say here is the will, I am ready to sign for the sale of the property. That is why an entity is formed prior to death that holds title to the assets. A will doesn't hold title to jack crap.

in summary use a will for personal items, you can have a will that states everything is given to the trust,
if there is a title to the property, houses, cars, bank accounts, retirement accounts. the ideal thing is have the title and name on each account be that of the trust.

The problem is according to each states laws assets don't always pass cleanly to a surviving spouse, and they sure as heck don't pass cleanly to heirs, ie kids or whomever.

Cummins, I appreciate your passion but I gotta say I disagree with your premises and conclusions. I do not know what Utah law provides (Is it a community property state? Some western states are.) but in states with the Uniform Probate Code or the local version of same, probates can be opened five days after death, and the Personal Representative starts giving notice and paying bills and proposing and making distributions. Most probates, around 97% last I heard, never see the inside of a courtroom.

I would bet a steak dinner that trusts generate more legal fees than wills and probates, adjusted for values of course.

Most people who get trusts don’t need trusts. Put your heirs on your bank accounts as POD. If you can do a Lady Bird or death deed in your state, do one. That’s generally enough unless you have a big enough estate that estate taxes are a concern. No trusts needed. That’s just a scare tactic somebody uses to get a few thousand out of you after feeding you a ten dollar buffet meal and showing you some PowerPoint slides.

But don’t be scared of probate. It isn’t that big of a deal if no one fights over it. You’ll get letters testamentary within a few weeks of filing and you can immediately start distributing the estate unless there are some creditors to deal with. Get your letters, file a notice to creditors, file an inventory, and a final accounting when you close. Generally no hearing is required except maybe the initial one for the letters and it is all a paperwork drill. The cost will be around $2,500 or so and that will be that.

Everything I told my FIL to do and take care off while he was still alive went unfugging done or convinced not to do by his sea hag girlfriend immediately after I would leave and I thought a plan was set to be enacted.
Funeral arrangements prepaid
Financial planning
More defined and updated will
Fugging cardiac diet schit
Medical appt schitt
Personal hygiene schitt
Setting up home for safer living conditions
Ect ect ect
Nothing addressed...



Got in a pretty bad auto accident due to his lying games and
Manipulations.
Woulda never been on the road that night.
But his bullschitt caused me to do 3 days worth of work in a 8 hr scramble mode in his home cause he lied to hospital staff about his home plan to get released so he could act like a kid and eat junk food and play pogo games online and gamble online.

Still paying the price for that fugging accident
24 yrs in the infantry
And I get stove the fugg up inside 2 seconds worse than those 24 yrs combined cause of his stupid schitt....


Everyfugging thing I said would happen if he didn't address schit.
Fugging happened......
Plus P +.......

But " young" people dont know schit.


Geuss what ????
If ya was a young fool and idiot simpleton your whole life.

All that makes ya is a old foolish idiot who believes in that cliche
"With Age comes wisdom".


Bullschitt...........



Dont take care of schitt
Just throw it on family to unfugg and deal with.

I will say my side of the family plans and takes care of their business and dont throw all the crap on the living as some sort of gotcha from the grave or urn.

do whatever you want, my passion is real estate, often times the best ways to get good deals on stuff is when there is a passing of the owner. This is why I am familiar with the trust structure. If you have substantial assets your crazy not to listen to what I am saying. If you or your parents don't have much, well there isn't much to worry about right? I get to see the complications not having estate planning causes and in particular what could have been done to get around it. I also have friends that do this stuff for a living. its your money again do what you want. Assets don't always pass cleanly to the right people. put a fair chunk of money in front of several people and watch what happens. Their spouses, who are only related by marriage for example. They start licking their chops at the potential of having money. its not just the direct heir you deal with. you deal with their spouses yelling crap in their ears, money money money!!! I explained to VG in another thread the problems they could have encountered and how it took honest cooperation by the family to pull it off. in utah we have informal and formal probate. what you are talking about is an unformal probate. That means the judge just signs off. I think the max is 100k in assets. above that you need a hearing before the judge.

The main obeject of probate is not to transfer property, but to create a chain of title for real property. You can be the rightful and legal owner of a piece of property, but if you momma and daddy are still on the deed and they died in 1978, you can’t sell it or borrow money on it.

What a timely thread. My wife and I have avoided creating a will because we couldn't find anyone we'd entrust raising our kids. One is an adult now, and the other a teenager. I asked the older recently if he would be willing to see after his younger brother if something were to happen to my wife and I. He said he would. So with that issue behind us, we need to get our azzes in gear and get it done.

I see several of you posting in this thread are from Tennessee. Does the lady bird deed thing work in Tennessee?

Almost any wills is better than no will.

My folks did a will ten years before they died. The will had problems in language to start with, was never updated, and after my stepdad died, my mom lied and turns out she didn't know where it was anyway, couldn't remember the attorney, etc etc etc.
My STEPBROTHER knew. Never told me. He also knew where the POAs were, which I needed when Mom was non compos mentis.
My biggest mistake was, in 2006, me and stepbrother were issued POA copies. But at that time, both folks were vibrant. So I looked at it, filed it, and it sat 18 inches away from me for ten years, completely forgotten until after my mom died and my stepsister thought to mention stepbrother had copies of the POA and had told all the other steps. But not me.
I'd just had three years of wearing a groove in the highway, trying to keep Mom's empire from collapsing. None of the steps participated excepit by phone, and the one that told me not to bother him about things, HE was the one with the POAs.

And......

When I contacted the firm that had done the POA, they had a copy of the will....

And,

The will named myself and my best-beloved stepbrother as CO EXCECUTORS.

The worst, stupidest thing you could ever do to your kids, is to name more than one person as executor. Because BOTH need to sign everything. And the jerkwad who was nowhere to be found, no help when it mattered, then gets to be boss.

Bottom line, if you hate your family, don't do a will. If you REALLY hate them, appoint more than one executor.

JoeBob is right above that there are simpler ways to do it if you just want to avoid probate but There can be some other benefits such as delaying when taxes are due or just making sure that grandsons inheritance goes to pay tuition and not for strippers and blow. They’re very good when you want to give someone the benefit of a piece of property but not necessarily the responsibility of deciding what should be done with it or if you want to make sure that a certain person gets something for their lifetime and then it’s passed on to another family member.

We did a trust for our family place several years ago and it’s worked out well, Mostly as Cummins cowboy said in that it keeps spouses out of it and prevents a partition suit the first time someone gets hard up for money

Actually quite accurate, for Georgia and Florida at least.
Unless your estate is over 5M you are often wasting time and money to do a trust.
But consult a qualified attorney in your jurisdiction.