A 14 inch barrel? I thought it had to be 18 inches.

https://www.shopstoddardsguns.com/m...ell-black-synthetic-bird-head-grip-blued

class III item

Incorrect. It is not legally classified as a shotgun, and is perfectly legal.

Yes. It's legal.

It's a "firearm" designation.

Not a "shotgun" designation.

Last one I had that short blew the floor out of my Toyota Corona.

I hate to sound like a gun dumb ass. It is a 12 gauge so why isn't it a shotgun.

Because the government says it isn't.

Read what I posted above.

A shotgun is legally defined as a weapon designed to be fired from the shoulder.

The shockwave and those of the same design are not.

Because ATF says it's not.

Those short barreled "handguns" have been on the market for a few years at least. Since they are not designed to be fired from the shoulder they are considered to be a handgun, thus no minimum barrel length is required by the ATF. It would be illegal to remove the grip and add a stock to it.

OK, Jose. Thanks for the info, you can learn something every day on this forum.

Even though the description says 'defensive shotgun.

You're kinda late to the party sk7. The Shockwave has been on the market for several years now , Remington has a version and I think there are some others.

FYI , the state of NC does not call it a handgun , you don't have to have a NC handgun permit to buy one.


Mike

Until they say it is.

Thanks for the correction.

Kind of like the AR pistols with a brace. First it was OK to put the brace to your shoulder, then it wasn't, now it is again.

I don't keep up with shotguns. I have never owned one. Have borrowed one a couple times to go crow hunting and duck hunting.
For some reason, I just am not interested in shotguns.

My brother just emailed me this link to this weird non-shotgun, and he asked if it was illegal and I told him it is illegal. Now I have got him straightened out.

If they're illegal, somebody needs to call Rural King and tell them!

Yep. Perfectly Legal. I’ve got the Remington version with the Arm Brace. It’s called the Tac 14. Dandy little house gun and snake getter.

Legal to convert a shoulder fired shotgun into o e of these your own self, do they have to be manufactured as such?

Yep. Legal. It falls into a loophole category.

Nope. Hard to believe two people on this forum haven't been following this issue. Not NFA. Loophole.

Not so hard to believe.

Not designated a handgun either. Just designated a firearm.

You can buy 'em all day long at Rural King for a bit over $300.

Yep. That's the one I have. Had jamming problems with the Mossberg version, so sold it.

This kept happening, jamming it up, and it took time to rectify each time. Deadly if that happened when you need a gun to work.

Instead of feeding a fresh round into the chamber from the magazine, the shell nosedived through the skeletonized lifter, locking up the gun.

Remington is 100% reliable due to a non-skeletonized lifter.

Wonder if and when they would start making stuff like the Auto-burglar again? They weren’t designed to be fire from the shoulder.

Bet the Corona kept on running for another 100K miles though.

Back on topic, brother in AZ has one of them things (Mossberg?). I haven't looked yet, but they're probably prohibited in my "State".

Geno

They are NOT handguns nor shotguns. They fall into a grey area classified as "firearms".
Congrats to Mossberg for finding a loophole in the regs and exploiting it.

I think I'd get a 20 ga. or smaller than a 12. It would be deadly and easier to handle.

DF

Good point.

They make a few versions Bob. Unfortunately they are still. Class 3. They only require a $5 stamp instead of a $200 one, though.

Wonder, why it took, manufactures about 75 years to figure this out?

Years of bowing down to over-regulation.

Thanks Neal. I don’t keep up with new cartridge guns. Hadn’t a clue. Every now and again someone would bring an Auto-Burglar into the shop. We’d havta tell em what they had. I also remember the old Snake Charmers and Kimel Kampers. We use to sell a lot of them back in the early 80’s to folks that wanted something to pack in their travel trailers and RV’s.

Edit! Hell Neal, I don’t keep up with ANY new guns, cartridge or otherwise! 🤣

That’s all right Bob. You keep us updated on REAL GUNS.

Would this law apply in the same way as building a short barrel AR or using a new bolt action with a short barrel with a new receiver for a double barrel, or just a pump action?
If so I would think an 8 or 10 inch double would be hot seller, and look totally badazz..might not be a lot of fun to shoot, although now with Aguila's the short shotshells are now available, thigs could be different

It's legal because it left the factory classified as a handgun. And there is no legal limit on how long or short a handgun barrel has to be. If it had been sold as a shotgun then the barrel length comes into play and it would be illegal to convert it.

They are making AR's the same way and classifying them as pistols. They can have a telescoping stock and they are legal as long as the stock cannot adjust longer than 13".

It's not a "handgun" by legal definition.

It left the factory as a "firearm".

Nothing more, nothing less.

No. Gotta be built at the Factory.

Doesn't need to for a rifle caliber, just has to be a new unused receiver to legally put a short barrel on it. then I am sure overall length comes in to play also.
If Mossberg can with a pump why not with a new unused double barrel action?

Fired a few of those over the years. They hurt.

Yea, I can take some abuse, but a man's gotta know his limits.

Nope. The angle is different. Not painful.

Yeah, everyone I've talked to that had them them hated them.

Are you guys talking about the old vertical pistol grips that have been available forever? Yeah, those hurt. The grips they're putting on these are angled back quite a bit, so the recoil doesn't go against the hand and wrist. No pain at all.

Here is a pretty good read on the history of the law including much of the rulings with Thompson Contender on this topic. TC did gun owners a good one in their defense of Contenders.

https://www.atf.gov/file/55526/download

U.S. Department of Justice
Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco,
Firearms and Explosives
Office of the Director
Washington, DC 20226


26 U.S.C. 5845(a)(3): DEFINITIONS (FIREARM )
26 U.S.C. 5845(a)(4): DEFINITIONS (FIREARM)
26 U.S.C. 5845(c): DEFINITIONS (RIFLE)
27 CFR 479.11: DEFINITIONS (RIFLE)
27 CFR 479.11: DEFINITIONS (PISTOL)
A firearm, as defined by the National Firearms Act (NFA), 26 U.S.C. 5845(a)(3), is
made when unassembled parts are placed in close proximity in such a way that they: (a)
serve no useful purpose other than to make a rifle having a barrel or barrels of less than
16 inches in length; or (b) convert a complete weapon into such an NFA firearm. A
firearm, as defined by 26 U.S.C. 5845(a)(3) and (a)(4), is not made when parts within a kit
that were originally designed to be configured as both a pistol and a rifle are assembled or
re-assembled in a configuration not regulated under the NFA (e.g., as a pistol, or a rifle
with a barrel or barrels of 16 inches or more in length). A firearm, as defined by 26
U.S.C. 5845(a)(3) and (a)(4), is not made when a pistol is attached to a part or parts
designed to convert the pistol into a rifle with a barrel or barrels of 16 inches or more in
length, and the parts are later unassembled in a configuration not regulated under the
NFA (e.g., as a pistol). A firearm, as defined by 26 U.S.C. 5845(a)(4), is made when a
handgun or other weapon with an overall length of less than 26 inches, or a barrel or
barrels of less than 16 inches in length, is assembled or produced from a weapon
originally assembled or produced only as a rifle.
ATF Rul. 2011-4
The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) has received requests
from individuals to classify pistols that are reconfigured into rifles, for personal use,
through the addition of barrels, stocks, and other parts and then returned to a pistol
configuration by removal of those components. Specifically, ATF has been asked to
determine whether such a pistol, once returned to a pistol configuration from a rifle,
becomes a “weapon made from a rifle” as defined under the National Firearms Act (NFA).
Some manufacturers produce firearm receivers and attachable component parts that are
designed to be assembled into both rifles and pistols. The same receiver can accept an
interchangeable shoulder stock or pistol grip, and a long (16 or more inches in length) or
short (less than 16 inches) barrel. These components are sold individually, or as
unassembled kits. Generally, the kits include a receiver, a pistol grip, a pistol barrel less
than 16 inches in length, a shoulder stock, and a rifle barrel 16 inches or more in length.
- 2 -
Certain parts or parts sets are also designed to allow an individual to convert a pistol into a
rifle without removing a barrel or attaching a shoulder stock to the pistol. These parts
consist of an outer shell with a shoulder stock into which the pistol may be inserted. When
inserted, the pistol fires a projectile through a rifled extension barrel that is 16 inches or
more in length, and with an overall length of 26 inches or more. Other parts sets require
that certain parts of the pistol, such as the pistol barrel and the slide assembly, be removed
from the pistol frame prior to attaching the parts sets. Typically, a separate barrel is sold
with the parts set, which is 16 inches or greater in length. The barrel is installed along with
an accompanying shoulder stock. The resulting firearm has a barrel of 16 inches or more
in length, and an overall length of 26 inches or more.
The NFA, Title 26, United States Code (U.S.C.), Chapter 53, requires that persons
manufacturing, importing, transferring, or possessing firearms as defined in the NFA
comply with the Act’s licensing, registration, and taxation requirements. The NFA defines
the term “firearm” at 26 U.S.C. 5845(a) to include “(3) a rifle having a barrel or barrels of
less than 16 inches in length;” (“short-barreled rifle”) and “(4) a weapon made from a rifle
if such weapon as modified has an overall length of less than 26 inches or a barrel or
barrels of less than 16 inches in length” (“weapon made from a rifle”). The term “rifle” is
defined by 26 U.S.C. 5845(c) and 27 CFR 479.11 as “a weapon designed or redesigned,
made or remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder and designed or redesigned
and made or remade to use the energy of the explosive in a fixed cartridge to fire only a
single projectile through a rifled bore for each single pull of the trigger, and shall include
any such weapon which may be readily restored to fire a fixed cartridge.” Although not
defined in the NFA, the term “pistol” is defined by the Act’s implementing regulations, 27
CFR 479.11, as “a weapon originally designed, made, and intended to fire a projectile
(bullet) from one or more barrels when held in one hand, and having (a) a chamber(s) as an
integral part(s) of, or permanently aligned with, the bore(s); and (b) a short stock designed
to be gripped by one hand and at an angle to and extending below the line of the bore(s)”
(emphasis added).
Unassembled Parts Kits
In United States v. Thompson/Center Arms Company, 504 U.S. 505 (1992), the United
States Supreme Court examined whether a short-barreled rifle was “made” under the NFA
when a carbine-conversion kit consisting of a single-shot “Contender” pistol was designed
so that its handle and barrel could be removed from its receiver, and was packaged with a
21-inch barrel, a rifle stock, and a wooden fore-end. The Court held that, where
aggregated parts could convert a pistol into either a regulated short-barreled rifle, or an
unregulated rifle with a barrel of 16 inches or more in length, the NFA was ambiguous and
applied the “rule of lenity” (i.e., ambiguities in criminal statutes should be resolved in
favor of the defendant) so that the pistol and carbine kit, when packaged together, were not
considered a “short-barreled rifle” for purposes of the NFA.
However, the Court also explained that an NFA firearm is made if aggregated parts are in
close proximity such that they: (a) serve no useful purpose other than to make an NFA
firearm (e.g., a receiver, an attachable shoulder stock, and a short barrel); or (b) convert a
- 3 -
complete weapon into an NFA firearm (e.g., a pistol and attachable shoulder stock, or a
long-barreled rifle and attachable short barrel). Id. at 511-13.
Assembly of Weapons from Parts Kits
The Thompson/Center Court viewed the parts within the conversion kit not only as a
Contender pistol, but also as an unassembled “rifle” as defined by 26 U.S.C. 5845(c). The
inclusion of the rifle stock in the package brought the Contender pistol and carbine kit
within the "intended to be fired from the shoulder" language in the definition of rifle at 26
U.S.C. 5845(c). Id. at 513 n.6. Thompson/Center did not address the subsequent assembly
of the parts. United States v. Ardoin, 19 F.3d 177, 181 (5th Cir. 1994). Based on the
definition of “firearm” in 26 U.S.C. 5845(a)(3), if parts are assembled into a rifle having a
barrel or barrels of less than 16 inches in length, a regulated short-barreled rifle has been
made. See, e.g., United States v. Owens, 103 F.3d 953 (11th Cir. 1997); United States v.
One (1) Colt Ar-15, 394 F. Supp. 2d 1064 (W.D.Tenn. 2004). Conversely, if the parts are
assembled into a rifle having a barrel or barrels 16 inches in length or more, a rifle not
subject to the NFA has been made.
Therefore, so long as a parts kit or collection of parts is not used to make a firearm
regulated under the NFA (e.g., a short-barreled rifle or “any other weapon” as defined by
26 U.S.C. 5845(e)), no NFA firearm is made when the same parts are assembled or reassembled in a configuration not regulated under the NFA (e.g., a pistol, or a rifle with a
barrel of 16 inches or more in length). Merely assembling and disassembling such a rifle
does not result in the making of a new weapon; rather, it is the same rifle in a knockdown
condition (i.e., complete as to all component parts). Likewise, because it is the same
weapon when reconfigured as a pistol, no “weapon made from a rifle” subject to the NFA
has been made.
Nonetheless, if a handgun or other weapon with an overall length of less than 26 inches, or
a barrel or barrels of less than 16 inches in length is assembled or otherwise produced from
a weapon originally assembled or produced only as a rifle, such a weapon is a “weapon
made from a rifle” as defined by 26 U.S.C. 5845(a)(4). Such a weapon would not be a
“pistol” because the weapon was not originally designed, made, and intended to fire a
projectile by one hand.
Held, a firearm, as defined by the National Firearms Act (NFA), 26 U.S.C.
5845(a)(3), is made when unassembled parts are placed in close proximity in such a way
that they:
(a) Serve no useful purpose other than to make a rifle having a barrel or barrels of
less than 16 inches in length (e.g., a receiver, an attachable shoulder stock, and
barrel of less than 16 inches in length); or
(b) Convert a complete weapon into such an NFA firearm, including –
(1) A pistol and attachable shoulder stock; and
- 4 -
(2) A rifle with a barrel of 16 inches or more in length, and an attachable barrel
of less than 16 inches in length.
Such weapons must be registered and are subject to all requirements of the NFA.
Held further, a firearm, as defined by 26 U.S.C. 5845(a)(3) and (a)(4), is not made
when parts in a kit that were originally designed to be configured as both a pistol and a
rifle are assembled or re-assembled in a configuration not regulated under the NFA (e.g.,
as a pistol, or a rifle with a barrel of 16 inches or more in length).
Held further, a firearm, as defined by 26 U.S.C. 5845(a)(3) and (a)(4), is not made
when a pistol is attached to a part or parts designed to convert the pistol into a rifle with a
barrel of 16 inches or more in length, and the parts are later unassembled in a configuration
not regulated under the NFA (e.g., as a pistol).
Held further, a firearm, as defined by 26 U.S.C. 5845(a)(4), is made when a handgun
or other weapon with an overall length of less than 26 inches, or a barrel or barrels of less
than 16 inches in length, is assembled or produced from a weapon originally assembled or
produced only as a rifle. Such weapons must be registered and are subject to all
requirements of the NFA.
To the extent this ruling may be inconsistent with any prior letter rulings, they are hereby
superseded.
Date approved: July 25, 2011
Kenneth E. Melson
Acting Director

That is my understanding with short-barreled ARs too. One can be made with a short barrel using a NEW receiver and a "brace" but not using an AR receiver that was made or sold as a rifle prior.
Sooner or later I expect to hear of someone arrested for converting a carbine AR receiver into a pistol with parts bought on the net.

Well, that's what you get for driving that thing. And carrying hot, unless you were road-hunting birds and shooting out the window. Then it's OK....

The whole NFA is a flagrant violation of the Second Amendment, which was meant to place firearms and their private ownership outside of the reach of the Federal Government entirely.

If you were using it to slap a few 'boo home invaders back out of your front door,...you wouldn't feel a thing. In fact,...John Cougar would probably be playing in your head:

They could build the lower as a firearm or a pistol?

LOL. Good one Bristoe !

Incorrect. These are not classified as a handgun, either. They fall into the Other Firearm category.

Classified as AOW, any other weapon. You cannot put a stock on it, however, as that makes it a short barrelled shotgun which falls under the 1934 NFA.

I don't think so. The Any Other Weapon classification requires a tax stamp, whereas the Shockwave and Tac-14 require no tax stamps. They constitute a true loophole, not fitting any Federal classification category other than "firearm," for which there are literally no specific Federal regulations apart from those applying to all firearms equally, which is a very short list. Basically, felons cannot own one, and they cannot be shipped directly to a non FFL holder, and that's about it.

Shockwave and others like it are simply classified legally as a "firearm".

Not a handgun. Not a shotgun. Not an AOW.

A firearm.

Yep.

i believe that would be a no no.
has to be manufactured as such.
i shot one with high brass 12guage oo buckshot a few months ago
it was a learning experience.
that strap on the front is there for a reason.

Yep.

Has to be manufactured as such.