Watching a guy take a snap shot at a German with his No.1 Enfield in the movie “1917” I was reminded how relatively poor the sights were on that rifle and how much better they were on the No. 4 a generation later.

IIRC too, even as late as ‘39 the Germans still had poor front post/rear notch irons on their standard Mauser rifle.

When and where did peep sights and ghost rings come into use?

Tks.

Garand is the 1st I can think of.

A later model of 03 Springfield maybe? 1917 Enfield. P14 Enfield.

03A3 had peeps. The earlier 03's I've seen didn't. But they may have added them in later production models.

The Buffington sight, as used on the Springfields, had a peep sight option but it was a far cry from a ghost ring; being mounted forward on the barrel. The same sight was used on the 1873 Springfield Trapdoor and on the Krag. Sharpshooters in the Civil War, who used their own rifles, usually used a tang mounted aperture sight. GD

My first big game rifle is an Enfield .303 no 5. "Jungle Carbine".
Shot many deer and elk with it. Great in thick cover. It has a peep sight. It also has a flip up sight you can adjust for long shots. I never trusted the sights for that. My shots have all been 100 yards or less.

Still have it. Only thing incorrect about it is someone cut off the flash suppressor and ground down the bayonet lug. Numbers and manufacturing all match.

The Springfield Buffington sight circa trapdoor and Krag, I suspect was the US's first entry into aperture rear sights. I don't know the dates, suspect 1870's though.

1902 30-40 Krag had a combo aperature/leaf I believe, as did the 1884 Springfield trap door 45/70.

This is a good question.

I believe they first appeared on real battle rifles in the 20's. But the Enfield's original versions were deemed somewhat janky. The No. 4 had the improved version and I think those came about in the early 30's. (Same sight on the MKV Jungle I believe.)

After that of course came the Garand. Garand and Enfield testing really proved their worth and 1903's were converted to the peep making them 1903A3's for service in WWII.

There may have been other testing and options prior to these but I'm pretty sure they went mainstream with the Enfield No. 4.

P14 Enfield, not the SMLE MK III.

My first deer rifle was a Lee Enfield No.4 Mark 1 that of course had the peep. Killed a few deer with it, before moving on to a Marlin 336 in 35 Rem, onto which I put a peep sight.

I believe that the World War 2 rifle with the peep sight was a Lee Enfield No. 4, MK 1. The World War 1 rifle was an Enfield Pattern 1914, it was a Mauser based rifle.

P14 Enfield/M1917 US Enfield.

My Enfield has more of a ghost ring setup. Small ring near the eye, and the front sight with a blade looking guards on either side. Center the three front blades within the rear sight, keep your focus on the front sight, put your target on the top of the center blade and pull the trigger. Easy peazy. Very similar to the M16 sight picture.

The rear sight does is not adjustable side to side. If you flip up the rear sight, it is adjustable to 800 meters. Not a precision piece by any stretch, but I hit well enough with it at shorter ranges.

Back when they were cheap, I had as many as five Enfields at one time. A wartime production 1943 BSA (?? I forget) No. 4 that I owned had two-groove rifling and just two flip up rings in back; long range and short range instead of the usual ring/flip up graduate peep sight arrangement. Now I have only one, part of the last 1957 "Irish Enfield" No.4 Mk II production run. Looks practically NIB, I gave it to my nephew up in NY State, just waiting for him to finish his enlistment and get settled enough to take possession.

Yep!

Starting with the US Rifle Musket Model 1861 had peeps in the ladder of the long range rear sight. I cant remember of the US Rifle Musket Model 1855 had them or not. Also the Buffington rear sight on M1884 Rrqpdoor had a peep on it. As did the M1901 (?) variant Krag rear sight.

As well as the P14 and M17, both based on the pre WWI P13, there were soldiers who took their personally-owned peep sights to war, for use on SMLEs. These were typically blokes who’d used them in competition before the war. The use of such sights by some of the ANZACs at Gallipoli is documented, for example.

FWIW Galilean sights were also used on SMLEs, for sniping, in WWI.Some of these were privately owned, and some were issued.

Oh. I get it now.

As it turned out, I shoulda kept two

My Springfield 30-40 Krag has a peep.

OMG.... Ballistics in Scotland!!!! Anyone else remember this gentleman? Worked in Saudi..... I know he was around twenty years back on the Shooterstalk Forum,

Here he is on the topic of aperture sights on Enfields....

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/archive/index.php/t-278356.html


Good they are, particularly the Mk I sight.

From what I can tell, I do believe though that the British Pattern 13 (circa 1912) and the Pattern 14 (circa 1914) rifles led the way with a good aperture sight. The US 1917 derivative of the P14 also used the same sight, but calibrated for the US 30/06 ball round of 1906.

The British were certainly ahead of the rest of the world as far as rifle sights went in the first 40 years or so of the 20th Century with their early adoption of aperture sights placed on the receiver bridge. The US caught up in a hurry though with the design of the M1 Garand rear sight.

I think that is true, and the military aperture sight originates with the P13 trials rifle. There were problems of flash, noise, metallic fouling and erosion with its large .276 cartridge, but they have been long since overcome with rifles like the 7mm. Remington Magnum, and could have been overcome sooner if some idiot hadn't started a war, which made a change of cartridge undesirable. Whether anybody in the world has ever needed a better long-range cartridge than the .30-06 is very doubtful, though. It was a reaction to the Boer War of 1899, and nobody has ever fought another war in which the infantry rifle was the dominant weapon.


The No4 Lee-Enfield rear sight is less well protected than the P13, P14 and M1917 versions, between the receiver "ears". But Parker-Hale and Alfred J Parker made accessory micrometer windage slide to clip onto the No.4 version, and accept screw-in discs. They still appear (not cheaply unfortunately) on eBay.

From that same thread, sig line material.....

Careful if you are having a peeing match. Sometimes the wind changes, and it blows back on you.

Mine also, had it when I was a kid, it's been gone for about 60 years now.

Like this one? The 1901 sight.

Is this the Buffington sight?
I have my FIL's old deer rifle in the safe. The receiver is marked "Remington model 1903" in 30-06 of course.

It has this exact sight. I have shot it well at 200 yds. Plenty good enough to split a military helmet at that range and a good deal further.

But it still pales when compared to the Lee Enfield JC with the precise ladder sight mounted on the rear receiver bridge.

It was the Canadian Ross.

My first peep sight was on a Daisy 25 BB gun in 1961, but they had been producing them since 1917.

Peeps on Krags are aftermarket.

Not if you count the Buffington sight as a peep. GD

I dont

Birdy,

Not really an answer to your question, but my uncle Glen was up in the area near Hurtgen in the rugged and forested terrain just before the Battle of the Bulge (which he fought in), he said they had lots of skirmishes and he really hated the peep on the Garand. His concept of the ideal sights for snap shooting would have been the old Winchester buckhorn rear with a big gold dot front. He felt that the buckhorn was accurate enough for the close range, snap shots they were forced to take. He did love that the Garand was a semi-auto. He said that the rate of fire could pin down an enemy long enough to do them real harm.

I was thinking trapdoor Springfield as someone mentioned above.