Are Monsters Made? or Merely Promoted?

What say you keyboard Psych Majors? Hollywood touches on this often in film roles, usually as a supporting character. I've known some in real life and have my opinions on it. I was reading the KSL book on the german concentration camps and their initial foundings were fascinating, it was not just the prisoners getting trained, but also the guards.

Those that showed kindness or a lack of barbarity towards the chosen inmates became the new additions to the prison population, (and funny how the ones on the fence fell into line QUICKLY) while those over achievers that came up with new and more efficient or cruel methods were simply promoted.

Do you think people all have this demon inside and some feed it others starve it, or do you think those who have 'what it takes" seek out avenues for it to be allowed out, by choosing a profession or hobby etc to give it a venue. Example of the latter would be the child molester that goes into the priesthood or into boy scouts as "troop leader" .

Any stories, anecdotes etc to support your thoughts? Analogous current events?

How about the paranoid coward who can't go out in public without a badge, a gun, and permission from the government to abuse his/her fellow citizens in the name of "the law"?
Jerry

There is some truth in what you said Hotrod.

"Do you think people all have this demon inside and some feed it others starve it, or do you think those who have 'what it takes" seek out avenues for it to be allowed out, by choosing a profession or hobby etc to give it a venue. Example of the latter would be the child molester that goes into the priesthood or into boy scouts as "troop leader" ."

It would not surprise me one bit. I think that potential is in every one of us, sad to say. Probably the good news is most of us can repress those tendencies.
Paul B.

What's the "KSL" book?

Contemplated this very subject many times. "Monsters" are not always evil. But many times what we make them.

https://www.psychologicalscience.or...adists-take-pleasure-in-others-pain.html

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Everyday Sadists Take Pleasure In Others’ Pain
Tags:

AggressionAntisocial BehaviorIndividual DifferencesPersonalityPersonality TraitsPsychological ScienceViolence

Most of the time, we try to avoid inflicting pain on others — when we do hurt someone, we typically experience guilt, remorse, or other feelings of distress. But for some, cruelty can be pleasurable, even exciting. New research suggests that this kind of everyday sadism is real and more common than we might think.

Two studies led by psychological scientist Erin Buckels of the University of British Columbia revealed that people who score high on a measure of sadism seem to derive pleasure from behaviors that hurt others, and are even willing to expend extra effort to make someone else suffer.

The new findings are published in Psychological Science, a journal of the Association for Psychological Science.

“Some find it hard to reconcile sadism with the concept of ‘normal’ psychological functioning, but our findings show that sadistic tendencies among otherwise well-adjusted people must be acknowledged,” says Buckels. “These people aren’t necessarily serial killers or sexual deviants but they gain some emotional benefit in causing or simply observing others’ suffering.”

Based on their previous work on the “Dark Triad” of personality, Buckels and colleagues Delroy Paulhus of the University of British Columbia and Daniel Jones of the University of Texas El Paso surmised that sadism is a distinct aspect of personality that joins with three others — psychopathy, narcissism, and Machiavellianism — to form a “Dark Tetrad” of personality traits.

To test their hypothesis, they decided to examine everyday sadism under controlled laboratory conditions. They recruited 71 participants to take part in a study on “personality and tolerance for challenging jobs.” Participants were asked to choose among several unpleasant tasks: killing bugs, helping the experimenter kill bugs, cleaning dirty toilets, or enduring pain from ice water.

Participants who chose bug killing were shown the bug-crunching machine: a modified coffee grinder that produced a distinct crunching sound so as to maximize the gruesomeness of the task. Nearby were cups containing live pill bugs, each cup labeled with the bug’s name: Muffin, Ike, and Tootsie.

The participant’s job was to drop the bugs into the machine, force down the cover, and “grind them up.” The participants didn’t know that a barrier actually prevented the bugs from being ground up and that no bugs were harmed in the experiment.

Of the 71 participants, 12.7% chose the pain-tolerance task, 33.8% chose the toilet-cleaning task, 26.8% chose to help kill bugs, and 26.8% chose to kill bugs.

Participants who chose bug killing had the highest scores on a scale measuring sadistic impulses, just as the researchers predicted. The more sadistic the participant was, the more likely he or she was to choose bug killing over the other options, even when their scores on Dark Triad measures, fear of bugs, and sensitivity to disgust were taken into account.

Participants with high levels of sadism who chose to kill bugs reported taking significantly greater pleasure in the task than those who chose another task, and their pleasure seemed to correlate with the number of bugs they killed, suggesting that sadistic behavior may hold some sort of reward value for those participants.

And a second study revealed that, of the participants who rated high on one of the “dark” personality traits, only sadists chose to intensify blasts of white noise directed at an innocent opponent when they realized the opponent wouldn’t fight back. They were also the only ones willing to expend additional time and energy to be able to blast the innocent opponent with the noise.

Together, these results suggest that sadists possess an intrinsic motivation to inflict suffering on innocent others, even at a personal cost — a motivation that is absent from the other dark personality traits.

The researchers hope that these new findings will help to broaden people’s view of sadism as an aspect of personality that manifests in everyday life, helping to dispel the notion that sadism is limited to sexual deviants and criminals.

Buckels and colleagues are continuing to investigate everyday sadism, including its role in online trolling behavior.

“Trolling culture is unique in that it explicitly celebrates sadistic pleasure, or ‘lulz,’” says Buckels. “It is, perhaps, not surprising then that sadists gravitate toward those activities.”

And they’re also exploring vicarious forms of sadism, such as enjoying cruelty in movies, video games, and sports.

The researchers believe their findings have the potential to inform research and policy on domestic abuse, bullying, animal abuse, and cases of military and police brutality.

“It is such situations that sadistic individuals may exploit for personal pleasure,” says Buckels. “Denying the dark side of personality will not help when managing people in these contexts.”

I think the majority of people have the monster within, ots just that in some people he lives closer to the surface. Circumstances definitely play a huge role, and under the right circumstances I think nearly everyone is capable of some pretty messed up deeds. How people are raised, childhood trauma and abuse, and simply the environment you grow up in will all play a big role in how close to the surface your monster lives, at least that's the way it looks to me.

I think the Fire demonstrates there are some unbelievers who believe in the adage of live and let live.

OTOH, some are driven by "the demon inside" and cant let a chance to attack get by or slide.

Some interesting stuff in there Joken without a doubt.

When I pledged a fraternity (back when you had to see Animal House in a theater) There were individuals that changed before your eyes when they got to abuse pledges, and even more so when they were blindfolded and tied. I found it sick myself and when i pledged i was too stubborn to quit no matter how bad the abuse but never saw why I should even like or respect such scum let alone count him as my 'brother".

Some would not even participate in day-to-day frat stuff but would never miss a "Hazing ritual" and would always push to get physically brutal every chance they got. "why just make them puke when we can hit them with a paddle WHILE they puke..." this type of escalation.

Long term observing- those same guys beat their girls (of course they asked for it) and in some cases abused animals, for some both.

KSL book is a history of the german concentration camps and their evolution into what everyone knows they turned out to be, the early days were different, but foretold of "greatness yet to come"

I was reading a "desert storm " book where a colonel caught gi's abusing tied prisoners and put an end to it immediately as sick and twisted, I can only imagine how the wrong colonel could have showed them how it REALLY should be done. it is IMO a Profession, much like law enforcement that draws in those who wish to abuse with complete immunity from any accountability.

Peter denied Christ three times and cut off a dude's ear... All on the same night. I'd like to think I would do differently...but whom am I kidding.

People may have a predisposition for sadism. Others get a taste for it. In my opinion, most do what they need to do out of self-preservation.

Maybe so in some cases Dess, no doubt, I doubt the Donner party set out to be cannibals. But sometimes after the switch is thrown they pursue with gusto. Just finished "ridgerunner" by Larry Dablemont, a friend of mine. A fascinating story of his uncle- illiterate hillbilly that was "tripped" during the Battle of the Bulge but found his way back to normalcy after coming home, but found himself on the balancing act for a while. Back then you were supposed to 'get over it" (ptsd) not much for support back then for GI's

His trigger was an ordered "knife only" killing of a sentry to open up for an attack. Fascinating story, with some hunting trapping and fishing thrown in to hold my interest.

Given many other traits are roughly 80% genetic/inborn, I would bet on inborn. Of course some sadists manage to control it, as do some psychopaths.

On the religious side of the house...Original Sin.

I also think sadists and other wicked sorts seek opportunities to inflict pain.

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The situation I found interesting was that of military training. Having had a large share my own self I came to the following conclusions:

1. The infliction of pain & discomfort is necessary for proper combat training.
Sometimes it takes the form of pushing the man harder or faster that he finds comfy. Sometimes it is the deliberate infliction of discomfort to prepare the man for expected hardship. This is justified because the infliction of discomfort serves one or more purposes. First, it increases the probability of survival. Second it increases the probability of accomplishing the objective. There are others, but those are at the top.

2. Non-sadists had to care for the men, the service, the country, and/or the objective to inflict the necessary discomfort.
If you love your men, you gotta be willing to hurt them to prepare them. Some non-sadist men do not have it within them to do the necessary. Others learn and do their duty, even if it distresses them.

3. No doubt, some sadists seek positions in the military that allow them to inflict pain for their pleasure.
Bank robbers rob banks because that is where the money is.

4. I got to where I could spot the sadists PDQ.
The non-sadists could be relentless and totally implacable when inflicting pain. I think the trainer at that point was putting on a deliberately unfeeling mask and were a bit more..stiff. The sadists were more relaxed and would, at times, give of signs they were enjoying the distress of their trainees. I do not mean finding some absurd situation humorous, but just loving the pain for its own sake. Black humor is a means folk use to blow off distressing emotion, so a joke or a laugh at a blackly humorous point is not a sign of sadism, IMO. So a guffaw or a belly-laugh may be perfectly innocent black humor, while a barely-perceptible smile might be SSG Sadist feeding his inner demon.

5. The conundrum is..."Can the military get the necessary training done without sadists?"
I think---YES. It would be more costly as more non-sadistic men willing to inflict pain for a purpose would be needed to replace the sadists.

knew one guy who was one, luckily for the world he got killed when he was 41. he was ruthless. can't talk of some things i know about him, yeah he was a monster.

KSL book, WTF is that?

Originally Posted by joken2

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... “These people aren’t necessarily serial killers or sexual deviants but they gain some emotional benefit in causing or simply observing others’ suffering.” ...

The world is full of these type people. When I lived in NE PA, there was a particular group of individuals who, if they were not deriving benefit from a particular deal or transaction, they would go WAY out of their way to scuttle the deal for everyone else... And then laugh about it all over town...

If you don’t deal with your demons, they go into the cellar of your soul and lift weights.