Left home for a brief road trip Friday afternoon. Have been in Orange Beach AL for about 48 hours now. We’re enjoying the nice weather,and beaches. Walking more than I have in months.

We met another couple from Ocean Springs, MS on the beach yesterday. We struck up a conversation about their cool electric driven bicycles, and the talk wandered into beaches,the water,and seafood.

They explained the differences between varieties of shrimp. Cool facts, but I’m not fussy about my shrimp as long as they are hot and plentiful.

They also claimed that the oysters were shipped in, as there is no longer an oyster industry anywhere in the gulf. They claimed that the Deep Water Horizon disaster wiped out almost all of the oysters and a large part of the crab population.

They talked about dead dolphins and sea turtles in large numbers.

They painted a pretty bleak picture of the gulf, with the 2010 oil spill and even floodwater releases by the Corp of Engineers as major destruction events for marine life.

Looking to the ‘fire for information here.
Is the gulf dead or dying? Likely to recover?

Writing this from the balcony outside our room, 3rd floor, Sleep Inn, Orange Beach AL

I was working offshore During the period of Horizon.
Actually on days off when it happened. Our relief saw the fireball. Our rig was about 30 or so miles from it.

We never saw the huge oil slicks on the news. Maybe we were in the wrong current for it to come our way.

Back then i heard from locals i worked with that there was a lot of scamming going on in the relief efforts. folks claiming there entire lively hood was ruined, when they were only a weekend / hobby schrimper at best.

plenty of oysters here, they even farm them. saw it on the news the other day forgot how many millions of lbs it was, but a lot.

those folks don't know what they're talking about.

I lived in Ocean Springs for awhile - quiet little community before the Casinos came in.

I don't doubt there are some long term lingering effects of that disaster. My sister-n-law works is a biologists that is hired to take bacteria and contamination water samples along the gulf.

4 years ago or so she was telling me her samples were still showing high levels of contaminant in the gulf , especially in the areas where there was vegetation. 4 years is a long time though I guess, I haven't talked to her lately about it.

KFWA--when you sister-in-law says contamination, what did she mean? Oil, organic loading or something else?

it wasn't only specific to the oil I'm sure because hurricanes in the gulf add toxins, not to mention a few paper mills in the area. Alot of her work comes as a result of weather related , not just man made events. My daughter did an internship with her last year. She was testing DDT in the fish because barrels of DDT that were buried had deteriorated and was leaking into the water tables.

The Deepwater Horizon spill affected crabs and oysters more than any other fish populations. Those impacts were somewhat localized to Eastern LA and parts of the MS sound. The jury is still out on whether or not tuna were affected. Otherwise the deep Gulf seems very healthy.

As it relates to oysters, the Bonnet Carre Spillway being opened 3 of the past 4 years has had devastating impacts. The salinity of the MS Sound drops below the salinity that will support them. Crabs don't die with the freshwater inundation, they just move further out. The shrimp spawn is also negatively impacted by the spillway openings. Beyond that the large volumes of fresh water all across the state affect shrimp spawn. This time of year normally sees the MS River gauge at Carrollton at about the 9 foot mark. It is at the 16 foot mark and we have not yet had our spring rains and snow melt off. The typical trigger point for opening the Spillway is 17 feet. This year will mark the 4th time in 5 years it will open. Prior to 2008 it had only been opened 8 times in its 70 year history. It has been opened 6 times since. This year will make 7. The Spillway is opened to relieve pressure on the levees and lower water levels in the greater New Orleans area.

Another issue that is being explored is the impacts of not dredging the Mississippi River passes that used to be dredged. The only one that is dredged is Southwest Pass. The other passes are silting in and becoming very shallow. Obviously not as much water can flow through a shallow pass as can flow through a deep pass. This has the effect of stacking up the water upriver of the passes. That may be part of why the Spillway has seen more frequent openings.

Louisiana is fighting another battle. Levees are being built across most of the state. The sea water that once penetrated deep into the marsh with a strong south east wind is now funneled through the narrow openings of the flood gates that are the only breaks in the levee systems. Shrimp that would historically make it deep into the marsh to grow in the protection of the abundant sea grass, are now being kept out in larger open bays. They are much more subject to predation in open waters. The levees are going to change the biology and hydrology of the area in ways we cannot yet envision.

Add to that complex situation the coastal erosion issue and the solutions to restoring the coast. There will be more freshwater river diversions added to the mix. Historically that freshwater flowed freely through the marsh when the river flooded. Now is will be pumped in select locations and trapped to some degree by the levees.

The Gulf dead zone is yet another issue. You can run that through a search engine and read for days on that topic alone. Dead zone is a bit of a misnomer. It's and area where because of the fertilizer rich river runoff, low oxygen areas develop. It doesn't kill the sea life to any significant degree, much of the sea life just moves to areas with better oxygen levels. When the oxygen levels normalize the sea life returns.

Oysters are seeing the greatest impacts. Followed by shrimp and crabs. Tuna landings are down significantly but it would be hard to pin all of that on DWH. Excepting those species, things are looking pretty good.

The flavor of shrimp and oysters is influenced by the salinity of the water and the nutrients in the water. Mississippi Sound and Mobile Bay oysters are the best on the Gulf Coast in opinion. The shrimp from the inshore waters of coastal LA are my favorite. An imported farm raised shrimp lacks character in the flavor. The texture and color of the cooked flesh is appreciably different from Gulf shrimp as well. If anyone were to compare an imported shrimp and Gulf shrimp in a side by side taste test, the differences would be apparent.

Bicycles are cool, even the electric ones.

Your new friends seem to have given you some misinformation. This from Oysterater.com, "The largest remaining oyster reefs in the world are found in Louisiana. Not long ago, the Gulf of Mexico produced most of the oysters in the U.S. Since the BP oil spill, those numbers have been way down, but if you see a generic oyster in a supermarket or a raw bar, it’s probably still a Gulf oyster, which is a strain of Eastern oyster. They tend to be large, tender, meaty, and mild (due to the freshwater influence of the Mississippi River). Oyster farming is just beginning in the Gulf, but it shows huge promise."

Welcome! Nice sunrise this morning? I'm just a few miles north of you. Ya'll picked a nice time to visit. If you want to see the widest selection of available seafood, ease on over to Joe Patti's in P'cola. It's not far at all from where you are. They will have Gulf oysters from Texas and possibly Louisiana. If it swims in the Gulf, they have it.

The oil spill sucked and still does in ways. Our area of the gulf got hammered pretty hard, but is not dead or dying, imo. Last year was the first time ever that we didn't have an oyster season. It's hard to say what the root cause is. The spill definitely contributed, but run-off and sewage overflows are problems as well. Flounder and crab numbers still seem way down. Finfish and shrimp seem to be doing fine. One of the biggest unknowns is the long term effects of the Corexit dispersant used during the spill. It mixed with the oil and went to the bottom, for how long we don't know.

The spill has really transformed our community however. A lot of the imported cleanup workers never left. I can't really blame them though. Why leave? BP also engaged in a massive campaign across North America to re-ignite the tourism industry here. It worked in more ways than one. The clientele has changed dramatically. Folks move here and want it to be like where they came from.

If ya'll have the time, I recommend a trip down Fort Morgan Rd (HWY 180 W). There is a large National Wildlife Refuge as well as the fort. Some of the best oysters on the planet still live down that way. Maybe one day we can eat them again.

Last year a number of dolphins were found dead inshore and nearshore. They had lesions on them. It is thought that the high volume of freshwater was somehow responsible. Sea Turtle populations are doing well.

If I had to guess the OPs friends from Ocean Springs are recent transplants and are politically liberal.

Thanks to all

So it seems like there is trouble, as always, but not as Black a picture as they painted

Bama Rick,
There is what looks to be an oil rig off shore to the West. How far out is it? And who runs it?

Still see lots of sport fishing boats out there...

Don't know about him, but she said she grew up there

I like Tato O Nut donuts though

The seafood conversation centered around the difference between royal red shrimp and brown shrimp.

They encouraged us to come back in May- June to try the brown shrimp.

Signed
Ignorant shrimp lover

This couple must be tree huggers, they’re FOS. From my point of view the deepwater horizon oil spill did almost nothing. As Paul Barnard said, the Bonnet Carre spillway dumping freshwater from the Mississippi River into the sound did a lot more damage. That pretty much killed my fishing last year

Those rigs are natural gas wells owned by a multitude of companies. They are prevalent the further west you get, inshore in Mobile Bay, as well as offshore. They are south of you as well, but further out, so they don't obstruct the view from your balcony.

As far as shrimp goes, we have pink shrimp (hoppers) in the spring, brown shrimp in the summer and white shrimp in the fall. The hoppers are my favorite, sweet, sweet. Royal Reds are caught far offshore and flash frozen. I think folks like them because they are big, but the flavor is not there at all for me.

the oil platforms here are from a couples miles out to over a hundred miles.

They are enviro-nazis pulling your leg. The Gulf and estuaries fully recovered. The famous Apalachicola oyster industry, in the Florida Panhandle, was damaged and flooded out by a hurricane. Had nothing to do with the oil leak. The Louisiana crab, shrimp and oyster industry recovered almost immediately and is thriving.

I spent18 mths working the BP oilspill. One year on Dauphin Island, Al. and 6 mths in Gulf Shores, Al. The long term effects of the oil spill, I have no idea about. I can only tell you what I saw while I was there.

Katie Curric sp? ruined the tourism on Dauphin Island. Every morning for weeks, she would do a news cast from the island and tell how bad it was and they would show a pic of the Louisiana marsh area. It killed the island that summer and for no reason. Yes, there was a little oil showed up on the beaches, but for the most part, the natural tar balls was worse than the oil. Besides, they had clean up crews working at night to keep the oil cleaned up.

Some good did come of the disaster..... they closed the break in Dauphin Island caused by Hurricane Katrina. This kept out the salt water, that had killed the oyster beds north of the island in the Miss. Sound. Since the salinity had gone down, they were making and reseeding oyster beds. I dont know if this worked or not.

I got to Gulf Shores a year after the spill, in June of 2011. I dont know how the economy was in the summer of '10, but it was booming in the summer of '11. The locals said it was one of their best years, ever.

I know this doesn't answer the OP's question, but it's what I saw.

And, deep water Reds are the best shrimp!

My favorite past time is inshore and offshore fishing in the MS Sound and Gulf. Spend ever spring, summer and most of fall on the water with the family. In all my years of being on the gulf and the beaches, I have only ever seen one dead sea turtle and it was obvious that it was done in by a boat prop.

Never seen a dead dolphin washed up on the beach nor have I ever read it reported locally.

The oysters are still here and the more prominent local restaurants are proud of their gulf caught oysters and shrimp.

The spillway debacle in LA is another story....but I have personally not witnessed any major effects on the AL coasts that can be contributed to the oil spill.

During the oil spill, all fishing was closed but reopened in Oct or Sep if I recall. The next year was some of the best fishing that we have seen in years just because all of the populations had a season off from fishing pressure.

OP, you were fed some BS.

Can't say about the oysters but last year the red fishing was darn good.

We went about 6-8 miles south of Gulfport and had a blast all day long.

One thing i noticed is that for a about a month there were no live bait shrimp to be had.

The thing about sewer water being put into the gulf has been going on forever.

They see the storm drains off the beach and they think they are sewer pipes.

The river release had an impact on how salty the sound water is and the fish move farther out,they can live in brackish water but if it gets out of balance they move south.

Spot on here Rick....though I have to disagree with you on the Royal Reds. Those things are just succulent and are by far a favorite for my wife and me. That doesn't mean I will turn my nose up on any of the others though!

The oyster beds were covered by the oil laden dispersant. The oyster fishers invested heavily in planting lime rock to give new oysters a place to grow. Oysters in LA and especially in MS are way off pre-spill numbers. The Spillway openings have been very hard on MS and LA east of the river. The frequent openings have more to do with the lower commercial landings than the spill though.

Crabs lost almost an entire recruitment class in the year of the spill. I had a chat with a researcher who harvested numerous blue crabs from the affected area. He took a control group from an unaffected area. He was only able to induce spawn in less than 5% of those taken from the affected areas. He induced spawn in over 50% from the unaffected areas. Crab seem to be doing well now.

Shrimp landings in LA over the past two years are at historic lows. Half of the historic highs. My belief is that the interior marsh being walled off by the levees is having an impact. I hope I am wrong. Again, not a BP spill issue.

All of the above is approximately 80% horsescchhitt. I don’t mean you johnw.

I buy Louisiana oysters all the time. The dolphin kill corresponded with their calving season happening when the spillways were open and had to do with Mississippi river water pushing the salt water out of the area. The beaches on the Louisiana coast look the best I have seen them in 35 years. The real damage from the Horizon in my opinion came from the chemicals the government made them spray on the oil to make it sink. Most of the free oil would have evaporated. and just heavies would have been left. Sunshine and wave action would have done most of the cleanup. Now there is a combination of crude and chemicals through the whole water column. or lying on the bottom where the fish contact it.

lot of people don't realize oil seeps out of the gulf floor naturally, why we get tar balls on the beach sometimes.

Bama Rick,

Thanks for the recommend to Ft Morgan. The ferry was cool, and we met some awesome folks both on the ferry and over supper afterwards.

We took a dolphin tour boat this morning, and had a great conversation with the captain, who also runs a fishing charter. He agreed with most here that the gulf is not in as bad a shape as was presented to us by the couple we met on Sunday.
He did say that sport fishing has suffered for some species, like flounder. He also said that water born infections that were unheard of ten years ago are frequent now. Says he will not bodily go in some waters in the summer time. Said that in recent years that deaths from infected cuts happen every year, and that loss of limbs from infection is becoming common. He’d never known of either to occur on a regular basis, locally.

Vibrio Vulnificus, AKA flesh eating bacteria, is pervasive in the warm coastal waters all across the country. If you have been in the warm coastal waters, you have come in contact with it. It may have even entered your blood stream. Most people who come in contact with it fight it off without ever knowing the got it. Those at greatest risk are those who are immunocompromised and those who drink heavily.

Lol....They're full of [bleep]. Everybody is looking for a free buck.

Glad ya'll had an enjoyable trip. The beaches out that way are what Gulf Shores / Orange Beach looked like B.C. (before concrete). We lived on Ft. Morgan Rd. for a while when I was a kid. I learned how to shoot Dove on the north side before there was a Bird Sanctuary or golf course. I still fish on both sides, and yes, the flounder are hard to come by.

The Vibrio gets a lot of attention these days. I don't know if it's more prevalent or what. Maybe they didn't know what is was back in the day? I know an older commercial fisherman who recently contracted it. He's been fishing the same waters his whole life. When I was growing up we never heard of it. The old timers would tell us the saltwater will cure what ails you. Cuts, scratches, bruises, sore muscles, etc. I work in and around the water on occasion and open wounds happen. Not to mention my fishing habit. Scary stuff indeed.

We’ve met a lot of people here from various areas and backgrounds. And we’ve heard a wide variety of opinions on everything from politics, to the environment, to best seafood restaurants, and to the Subaru we drove down here.

Guessing that the couple that we met Sunday were just like a lot of folk who look at their local circumstance and assume that it mirrors the world around them.

BTW...
Was proud to be one of several red ball caps in the resort lobby tonight during SOTU