Any small business (defined as 500 employees or less) owners with a decent number of employees? Have you researched what is known now about the Coronavirus Stimulus Package? In a nutshell, from what I can tell, a loan in the amount of 2.5 months of payroll that doesn't have to be paid back if all employees are retained and it is spend it for payroll and select operating cost over a 2.5 month time period. A weekly payroll of $100K would equal a loan in the amount of about $1.1 Million. Anxious to see the final version. You never know whats been edited out until you see the final version.

I don't know how we (taxpayers) can afford it, nor do I see how the Republicans got it through the Democrats.

I am in construction. I’m have my CPA looking at it now. Once they review all the details we will decide what to do. If there is a benefit we will look hard at it. Good luck.

Tag

I'm in construction and a former CPA. Thats how it sits now with the latest information we have. Of course there's more details but this is meat of it and a very understandable condensed version of my interpretation. But again, anxiously awaiting the final version.

We haven’t laid anyone off but out work has slowed significantly. We eliminated all overtime but we are keeping everyone in a full weeks pay. Hoping that we can get some or all of it back. Good luck to all the other small business owners out there. It’s gonna be a real challenge for many.

Yep. 10 employees and business has all but dried up right now. Having to cut pay by 50% to stay afloat, and I’ve not taken a check in 3 weeks. Waiting to see if I qualify and how to apply for relief, otherwise it’s a bank loan to keep the doors open.

As most of you know, I have a dental office.
It is shut down as they divert our resources I.e. masks, gloves, and PPE (personal protective equipment) elsewhere.

My office is closed save the odd emergency. Staff is on furlough without pay.

The challenge for my type of business will be to survive the complete depletion of all business cash reserves and then find working capital to survive for 2-3 months it takes to get funds coming in at a normal amount after the crisis passes. Your MD offices will face the same. Restaurants..,, bad news.

The government is going to spend trillions one way or another.

1.) they will spend it on never ending unemployment claims if they let small business (and large) go bankrupt and close. 10-15% unemployment is far more realistic than 1 million dead from the virus as some crack heads have spouted off.

2.) government can give money right to the private sector and people back to work in their SAME jobs, paying taxes and resuming normal spending as soon as possible.

I hate to see the debt jump, but it will one way or another. Putting people back to work in their same jobs is the better alternative.

We kept on but sent a bunch home this week. Looks like you can't layoff folks to qualify for the tax credit eligible loan, but that's just some BS I'm hearing from those who don't probably don't know!?

3.25 MIL unemployment just realeased.- matched 1980 figures.

Next week, they are projecting 4+ MIL.

Untold business doors shuttered forever......and counting.

All any businessman, with half a brain, has to do, is look at those very same numbers from 1980, to see what the future holds as far as when jobs come back. History books when facts are true don't lie. Look at the decade of the 1980's to chart your course.

No financial modeling needed here, This game has already been played before, and everyone is in the stands ready to watch it again......jobless.

You can't bring millions back to work overnight when the economy has just absorbed this extensive amount of carnage.

It has been 40 years since we have taken a hit this bad. Many alive have no clue, because they aren't old enough or had to work through it.

Many people back then, with advanced degrees, had to swing a hammer to survive. This time around, many of those same people can hardly read a tape measure. They never developed the skills, young boys acquired, as they grew up, and it's about to show.

Im in construction. We are still working 40 hrs a week and will be for the foreseeable future. Even if I'm eligible there's no way I'd think about taking it. Plenty of folks in service and restaurant industry that actually need it, can't imagine many construction companies that should.
I will PROUDLY keep on taking care of myself and my employees without taking a handout off the backs of the next 2 generations. I made it through 2008 no problem and will this too. The company carries no debt, 21 employees, 4 pieces heavy equipment, 3 dump trucks, 7 fleet vehicles and no payments, account is flush with cash.
Live way beneath our means.

163bc, if you take it, please don't ever criticize any Democrat/liberal/socialists ever again.

No bailout needed or desired here. Only have 2 employees and we are busy as ever.

own 2 small businesses.....one has been up in sales, but revenues on the main one are down by almost 50% over the last month.

no employees cut yet, everything still going, but this hurts.....looking forward to reviewing details of the proposed stimulus package.

jackmountain I complement you on your frugal operation. Good Luck Keep up the good fight. Cheers NC

[bleep] off. This is America and we're still the strongest most determined group of people ever collected together. Do we have problems? Yeah, sure we do. Is the millennial generation a bunch of pussies? Yeah. But when the [bleep] hits the fan you still have a bunch of hard working, smart determined, independent people who will do what it takes to get the engine turning again. One thing to remember is were Americans, and we love to spend money. And spending money drives the economy.

I have hands down, the best group of guys I've ever had the pleasure of working with. Dedicated, loyal, hardworking...
Absolutely awesome crew and couldn't do it without them. They're family.

I'm with JackMountain, we won't even look into it. Don't want .gov, don't need .gov

Nice work Jack. Always fun to hear folks say you should be borrowing money and leveraging your resources to grow businesses. Then when this comes down, a lot of those folks are out looking for relief funds. No thanks. Much smaller than you, but no debt and we'll survive this fine I reckon.

And that relief thing is not directed at anyone here, just an in general statement .

You're a mentally sick prima donna. I never said America could not survive this. I'm simply listing FACTS of what the immediate future holds, so businessman, who have not gone through this, can make educated decisions to position themselves as best they can.

The fact you are running around this site presently, bragging about all of your $100,000+ jobs, when people are hurting, shows what a mentally sick prima donna you are, feeding your narcissism.

Pizz off clown.

I truly highly doubt you have the work you presently claim to have, when everywhere else, jobs are being shuttered, as always happens in a major downturn in its wake.

I've been through this before, and I know what happens, and so have others reading this.

Go take your bloviating no-respect-for-others-hurting azz some place else.

I had a meeting with the Frankenstud Sling Keeper employees on social distancing and fifty percent threatened to quit.

That's great. Good luck in the coming months. Seriously.

Good luck you guys!!!
Mean it too.

JM, you are living in a very small world.

This is why politicians drive me off the deep end.
We are already getting reports as to the sort of thing the left are burying into the fine print.
I expect it takes more than a CPA to figure out.. I imagine were it not for the lockdowns, there would be all sorts of conferences filling hotel conference centers to discuss the impacts to small (and large) business.

Jackmountain its clearly taking the safest path. We have already seen several unconstitutional actions by the left, some of which have already been reversed.

This election just became far more important to small business.
I foresee years of tax adjustments tied to this.

On the Brightside ? there will be all sorts of professional conferences and lobbying to figure out effects and develop tactical and strategic plans..
Yikes!

2 companies in 2 states. Business is up a decent amount in both. We are in an industry that can help mitigate virus problems, so we are fortunate there. We have great staffs and pay them well. Hopefully, this will pass quickly with as little damage as possible. Restaurants and the hospitality industry are taking a beating.

There are also sooooo many situations that don't, yet folks choose to go that route. Brand new trucks, brand new equipment, new offices, unnecessary office staff etc...

Lean, mean and never think too highly of yourself to pay someone to do work you deem "beneath" you. I've used loans from banks and personal financiers plenty of times, but always short term (1-4 years) and was actually weeks away from a substantial loan to finance a development. More often though, I've brought in private money as a partner in ventures, making less profit, but along with it, a lot less risk.

Im not sure I agree with the living in a small world comment... I would agree the norm is to grow too quickly which usually requires over leveraging which is a recipe for disaster during downturns, especially sudden ones like we're facing now. We're extremely diverse running General and Subcontract crews, commercial, residential and historical renovation, build contract and speculative, and in all things self perform as much labor as possible. 3M-4M in gross revenues the last 4 years running and expect to do at least that this year even with this set back. I wear a lot of hats which means my normal work hours are close twice the average, but it allows me the security of reserve capital.

Most guys I see in this business overextended are borrowing because they're too lazy to put in the necessary hours, too impatient to grow at a sustainable rate, or too stupid to understand the business they've chosen to compete in.

Our business is 90% food for restaurants, primarily Seattle. We’ve been skewered. But I’m zigging and zagging and holding above water for now. We’ll see what the CPA has to say on Monday.

Try to hang in there Dutch, I hope to God some of this relief package makes it to folks in your position that actually need it and it doesn't get squandered on folks that technically qualify for it but don't really need it

Just make sure your not out spreading the kung flu past 8 at night.

My business was marked as Essential so we have our office manager working from home for her safety and we are sending out spray trucks daily from two locations with helpers following in separate vehicles.We run very lean and are blessed to be able to give our guys and gals 35/40 hrs per week during this mess..Thankfully, we will NOT be taking advantage of any loans no matter what the terms....However I'm certain there are those companies who desperately need the help.

Damn...Long Island. Be safe and I hope the best for your continued success.

Got 6, sent them home with a paycheck and promise of 2 more if necessary. After that To Be Determined. Meanwhile on my Full time Job still, so far, consider essential and going in business as usual.

Mike

Thanks JM

Very blessed to sell out when I did a year or so ago. Good luck and Godspeed to all of you guys still fightin' the good fight. Small business is the backbone of America, so kudos to you.

She knows how to play her cards don't she..........

Thinking about you bud...

Appreciate it. We're going to make it, its just how much hair will I have left at the end? I might look like Jud.

JM, I hesitate to even respond but assume you have 11 crews on 11 jobs and 8 of those jobs are shut down. There's also engineers, superintendents, truck drivers, mechanics, etc. No income coming in. Payroll well over $100k per week, The owners new truck payment (as you say) is $700 per month, not even 1% of weekly payroll. Also assume the business was purchased and there is large buyout payments. The company has no choice but to lay off the employees not working.

Are you saying a company like this should NOT take the stimulus deal and lay off employees?

this to me would be the first that our government finally helped the real working tax paying people of America,i hope its not a loan and i hope no one cheats there workers also. i think there is a better way but the government won`t do this but should > instead of this government check do this no taxes fed or state for year 2020 and no salaries for state or federal for any elected officials ?

We'll most likely need some help in ours, down over 50% March-20 vs. March 19, laid 6.5 of 9 off late last week and asked them to hold off on unemployment[where possible] until we know what this bill will offer.
As the owner operator I'm here every day working although laid off.
By mid next month we'll be closed at this rate.
We outlasted the two box stores[Staples/Office Max] as they both closed stores here after 10-15 years and are learning ways to compete with Amazon as best we can but with margins where they are these days 50% isn't going to cut it.
Our payroll runs $6-7K weekly normally. This week was $1,300[net] for 1 salary, 1 part time hourly and bookkeeper working 1/2.

She is a good gal.....but don't cross her lol

#baldisbeautiful

ct - sent you a PM.

I haven’t read the thread but my brother is a CPA and from what he has seen so far, he believes that the stimulus bill is going to be a nightmare that may actually have the opposite of the intended effect and run a lot of small business owners out of business.

Don’t disagree on the nightmare part. Curious why he thinks this ... if you care to elaborate.

I'm in construction too. Small operation with a couple of employees. We specialize in residential remodeling and building but focus on extensive remodeling jobs with some of them being upwards of 500k. We do custom work not production work. We are still working too and we have enough work booked for at least the next 9 months to a year. The phone is ringing all the time. I haven't had anyone on unemployment since 2008 or 2009. I initially felt just like you. I've been in business for 16 years and have always made my own way and I'm very proud of that. But sometimes I'm torn. The government doesn't mind taxing the hell out of guys like us. I even pay a local business privilege tax. There's a lot of times when I am writing those checks to them when I don't have the money and I damn sure wouldn't mind having that money back. Like I said, I haven't had anyone on unemployment since 2008 or so, but I still pay in with no plans for putting anyone on unemployment. Case in point... I have a friend that recently retired. He owned several McDonalds. He should be the poster child for them....He started working at McDonalds in high school flipping burgers and stayed with it. When he retired he owned 6 of them. In conversation he told me that he had over 800k in his unemployment reserve fund. He had over 300 employees, never laid anyone off and he wasn't entitled to a cent of his money back.
So like I said, I'm torn. At first I looked at it like Socialism, but I feel it's more like socialism when they are handing money out to those who haven't contributed. Part of me wants to keep on going as I am and thumb my nose at the government aid, but part of me wouldn't mind having some of my money back either. Hopefully I'll be able to keep on taking care of myself and I won't have to make that decision.
Either way, I tip my hat to you and your business operating skills!

Tag

Jack, Im glad your business is healthy. I'm very proud of the fact that mine is too. I have worked hard for many years to make it that way. I have high confidence that will help in weathering this storm as it has helped us in prior difficult times. Never taken a dime from anyone in 40+ years in business. Always paid for everything as we went along.

However, I must say that your last comment seems pretty short sighted. None of us knows what's coming down the road, how bad, how long, or how disruptive to our economy this might be. You've managed to get thru the 1st 2 weeks of a shut down.......not a huge deal and it certainly doesn't make you a business phenom. You and any business may be faced at some point with tough choices we can't even comprehend right now. Let's hope not.

Based on what you say if the govt sends your employees a check they should send it back or they are liberal democratic socialists and give up their right to free speech if they don't??? Are you asking that of any of your employees?

What I'm saying is everyone will have to make their own choices. I'm not gonna look down on anyone if they do what they think is right at the time for themselves and their families.

Questions for you Jack.
Does you business operate as a non profit forfeiting all profits to others that don't do quite as well? If not please don't ever criticize any Democrat/liberal/socialists ever again.
Does your business file a tax return and take advantage of any existing tax deductions? If so please don't ever criticize any Democrat/liberal/socialists ever again.
Does your business depreciate any of the equipment it owns? If so please don't ever criticize any Democrat/liberal/socialists ever again.
Does your business write off business tangible property? If so please don't ever criticize any Democrat/liberal/socialists ever again.
Does your business ever write off anything on Section 179 expensing form with your taxes? If so please don't ever criticize any Democrat/liberal/socialists ever again.
Have you or your company ever received a tax refund and if so did you give it back? If not please don't ever criticize any Democrat/liberal/socialists ever again.

Ridiculous right..... I could go on and on but i think you get my point. Every prudent business person in America should be looking very carefully at all their options right now including what is available to them in this stimulus package. Every business can and should be open to anything morally ethical and legally available to them most especially now. If it makes good business sense that's a decision they will have to make. So please stop telling everyone what a great American business man you are and others are not if they don't think and act just like you. Stuff like that doesn't help anyone and in fact does not help you look like the wise businessman you portray yourself to be.

After 40+ years in business I've seen hard times before. The only thing I know that has worked for me every time is to keep grinding and that is what I'll do. I have gone many many times without a paycheck to ensure my employees and my vendors got paid on time. I survived the early 80s when interest rates and unemployment spiked, late 80s recession, downturns in the 90s and 2008. I've worked my ass off and never made a dime I didn't earn. I don't need to brag on the internet about how many people I employ, how much equipment i own, and on and on....... What I am very proud of is that I have numerous employees that have been with me for 20-25 and some over 30 years. ALL my employees participate in a 100% company funded Profit Sharing Plan. I'm very proud of that and I'm gonna do what is right for my employees, subs, and vendors to get thru this current situation including looking at ALL my options and make what I believe will be the right decisions based on good business sense and my own instincts. I will find no fault in others that do or don’t do the same.

Best of luck to all business owners out there including you Jack. Stay safe


​

Summary of Small Business Relief in COVID-19 Legislation
For Companies:
I. Paycheck Protection Program1
a. Cash flow assistance to small business with 500 employees or fewer from the SBA
b. Low interest loans equivalent to 2.5x average monthly payroll costs or $10 million,
whichever is less.
c. Meant to cover payroll costs, paid sick leave, supply-chain disruptions, employee
salaries, health-insurance premiums, and mortgage payments.
d. If the employers maintain their payrolls until June, the portion of the loans used for payroll costs, interest on mortgage obligations, rent, and utilities would be forgiven (i.e. the loan becomes a grant).
e. Reduction in headcount proportionately reduces the amount of loan forgiveness.
f. A similar program is available for companies with more than 500 employees through the
Federal Reserve.
II. Employee retention credit2
a. Refundable credit against payroll taxes (employer 6.2% OASDI).
b. Credit amount of 50% of up to $10,000 in wages paid per employee (maximum credit
$5,000 per employee)
c. Applies to companies affected by COVID-19 shutdowns or 50% reduction in revenues
from same calendar quarter in the prior year.
III. Delay of payment of employer payroll taxes3
a. Allows employers (and self-employed individuals) to defer payment of the 6.2 percent employer-side Social Security payroll tax, effective for wages paid between the date of enactment and December 31, 2020.
b. Payment ultimately would be due in equal parts on December 31, 2021, and December 31, 2022.
IV. Net Operating Loss (NOL) carryback rules reinstated and expanded
a. NOLs from tax years 2018, 2019, 2020 can be carried back 5 years to claim refunds from taxable years
V. Due date for Federal income tax returns and payments due April 15, 2020 automatically
4
1 Coronavirus Aid, Relief, and Economic Security (CARES) Act 2 Id.
3 Id.
4 IRS Notice 2020-18

I'm in construction as well. Have 11 FTEs and all are still working. We are trying to keep our regular contractors as busy as possible, the guys who do both commercial and residential are still plenty busy even without us calling. Home sales will tank for a bit, for sure, but we will be just fine without any outside assitance.

A friend of mine who runs a commercial roofing factory tells me his demand is up 40% versus 2 weeks ago, which puts his MTD business 30% over March of last year. He is adding a shift because his people are working 70 hour weeks.

163,
Our CPA has said the paycheck Protection program covers salaries up to $100,000 annual basis - prorated for the 2.5 months. Portion of salary over 100k is not eligible.
Have to maintain your March 1, 2020 payroll through June 30, 2020 and it could be forgiven.
Buyer beware, nobody fully understands everything yet.

This

jackmountain, you have mail.

Our business is doing fine, since it is just myself, the wife and our IT guy. It guy is just working from home, and since we are an essential business, wife and I have been working long hours, and trying to be extra careful to not get sick, because if one of us caught the Corona, we're both out for two weeks. We have been having some issues with our suppliers being slow to deliver because of reduced workforces, but our customers have been very understanding and patient.

60 employees and we are turned completely off. Have been paying our employees to stay home.

I own a restaurant/bar. Fun times. Take out, delivery, curbside pickup will not even come close to paying the bills. My rent alone is $8-9K a month.

I will fight tooth and nail to keep the place open, hopefully things get back to normal a bit quicker than anticipate. When the cash register starts ringing again my liver can catch a break. Tired of cleaning.

If the corona doesn't get me a stroke, heart attack or liver damage will.

Good luck to all the other business owners and anyone severely impacted by Covid-19.

Things look pretty gloomy right now and it will remain so for a while, I still do not believe all the worse case scenarios. My money is on May we get back to almost normal for the majority of the country. Hope so...