Etoh might have stumbled on some very interesting information on CV-19 research.
http://www.nephjc.com/news/covidace2

I know that the local Doc's are prescribing Lisnopril for off label conditions.

When Etoh talks, I listen. End o story.

I can't possibly read all of that. Are they saying that Lisinopril specifically or any HT drugs might be useful? Lisinopril has a side affect in that it often causes dry coughing, sometimes severe. I had to get off it and I'm using Losartan. It's not as good but there are no side affects.

Yup, Lisinopril gave me the dry cough. I hear about 1 in 10 get it. I also went on Losartin for a while too but am on Amlodipine now, a calcium channel blocker. Interesting video here talks about this very subject.

ACE2 and ARB BP meds

The study indicates the association of the ACE inhibitor and the development of COVID-19. Cliff note version; older people don't have as much AEC2. The patients on a AEC2 drug did better than others. Like all medical studies they look at all the things that isn't first and if the `is' stands it is truthful.

I was recently prescribed lisinopril for high blood pressure. I notice the dry cough later in the day but it is mild and tolerable.

At first Lisinopril gave me such a bad cough I thought a blood vessel would pop in my head. Not so much anymore.

Hmmm. Wifey and I both on Amlodipine. She is also on Losartan.

This^^^^

Three weeks ago I was scheduled for dental surgery to install a new Ti tooth post. During the prep I suffered a BP attack. Later that week I went to the Doctors for the BP issue. The Doc put me on Lisinopril in a second. I get the feeling the Doc knew something that he wasn't willing to discuss. My BS meter was pegged. The Lisnopril is an off label prescription for me.

Absolument!!!!!

I've been taking low dosage Lisinopril since late last summer. It was prescribed not for high blood pressure though but because it's suppose to prevent kidney damage other medications I'm taking are known to cause. Not had much of a problem with a dry cough so far other than sometimes in the late evening.

Etoh can tell you stuff that will blow your mind. If he thinks the article is valid, I'd take it to the bank.

Goodness. Slow down.

It appears this corona virus attaches and accesses the host cell’s via a surface protein called ace2. That is a random unimportant detail, BUT that ace2 expression (the number of receptors the cell places in the surface) increases when one takes an ace inhibitor.

Ace2 receptors are mostly in lung and heart tissues.

There is investigational SPECULATION that per chance, MAYBE this plays a role in who gets sick, how severely they become ill, etc. It is not proven, but just early conjecture. As with A LOT of things in medicine, what appears an obvious discovery, proves later to not be what it seems.

The paper cited above contains an entire chart citing organizations worldwide saying, essentially, “this is interesting, but for lack of durable evidence yet, we recommend no changes to taking ace inhibitors.”

In other words, ace inhibitor use as a RISK (not a preventive) is a theory that is consistent with why those with sundry health issues may be more vulnerable - because ace is widely used (and well proven) in a number of settings. Older you are, the more likely one is on an ace inhibitor. But it is just one theory among many needed to be worked through.

I really did not want to type this out, because now there will be a flood of persons demanding their doctor change their ace to something else. Or persons stop taking their ace to their own detriment. But, the alternative is i let ya’ll go on 180deg from what this article says, so there you go.

I don’t take the Avapro anymore, it’s an angio retention blocker, my understanding was that people on ARB have MORE plug-in receptors for those little bastards to plug their peckers into.

I’m on nifedipine which is a CCA



Used to be on the avapro, which btw is a losartan potassium compound (ARB)

Couple years from now, slumlord finds himself the leader of great swaths of the inner cities, the last survivors. The rest of us, especially health nuts early on, all perished. Turned out, purple-drank was protective.

This is the conclusion I thought they had reached but the first part of the article seemed to suggest lisinopril would prevent the infection. Very confusing.

Glad you posted this.

the American Heart Association is recommending that folks on ACE inhibitors continue unless confirmed with Crono then discontinue immediately

The reasoning being that the ACE2 group attach to the receptor, (the surface protein) causing vasodilation, (reason why they lower blood pressure) which would cause higher transport rates of virus accross the membrane into the body.


as Plaqinil's mode of action in regards to the virus is its ACE2 pharmacology, why use it when an ACE2 is 1000 less toxic and 100 time "stronger"


This is not talking about using the either drugs in prophylactic

you saw that movie too,,, great movie---- But I think it was Mountain Dew.


No wait I think it was Gatorade. ,, they also used to water the crops, but they wondered why the crops didn't grow.

The blood pressure regulation system in the body is call the Renin Angiotensin mechanisms, and is located in the kidneys.

It releases an enzyme called ACE (angio converting enzyme) which acts as a vasoconstrictor to increase blood pressure , and conversely blocking this enzyme will lower blood pressure.

First generation ACE inhibitors ex. linisopril, and most of all the drugs ending in the last with ---pril. Lots of side effects.

second generation (ARB angio receptor blocking also called ACE2) less side effects and the particular class of drug under discussion because of specific target site.

I have three kidneys

2 are pissed off and producing hella renin

ACE1 inhibitors, lisinopril etc would not be effective in treating the virus, only the ARB--ACE) types. losarten etc.

Interesting to note that losarten is in world wide short supply since last summer, most foreign sources with China being the largest, contaminated with heavy metals.


no need to worry though, if only blood pressure is concerned, as the 50 year old chlorothiazides still have a great track record.

I can’t do HCTZ anymore
Went to Put a move on some turkeys, worked my way down into a couple hollows to cut them off.

Knelt down beside a tree for a few mins, then stood up to move out. My headlamps went out. Came to I think 2-3 minutes later face down in some leaves. Orthostatic black out.

Ya,know I’d rather be passed out in the leaves thinking about God, then passed out at church thinking about turkey hunting.

Enjoying this thread very much.

Grandma had 3 kidneys.
Her kid was a cheapskate, made me with just one.
It is 1.5X normal size though.

[quote=slumlord MORE plug-in receptors for those little bastards to plug their peckers into.[quote]

SL, have you taken up writing “The Corona Virus for Dummies”?

Don't think Ive ever read a Drug Contraindication Sheet that was so eloquently expressed.

Didn't really stumble on it. ARBs are/were used in combination therapy for HIV a the ----vir group of drugs. for 10=15 years. Rational was to affect the virus thru the cell membrane, using erythromycin type antibiotics, (Zpak) and vir group of drugs.

Also 3-4 yr. old research on the effect of vaping (aerosols) and ACE2 receptors.

Also 10-15 old DARPA stuff on weaponizing chemical, (biological agents with aerosols.)

This is shaping up like they kicked the hornets nest. Take a look at the attached link. You can find any understanding you want.

https://emcrit.org/pulmcrit/covid19/

Only I ever had to get a Zpack once, but they damn good.

I was at the disney world down there in orlando. I wasn’t the wise germaphobe that I am know.

Stayed down there two weeks at The Vistana, I think probably the first day I must have white-knuckled that safety bar on Dumbo or rubbed my eyes after touching the handrail.

Had the worst clogged up nose, sore throat, gagging, death rattle ever. Onsite disney walkin clinic PA gave me a zpack. 7 days of meds i think. I was better in about 8-9 days. Coughed up raw oysters towards the end.

Had to have caught it from some international no hand washin types.

Wow. Small world. The guy that started that website was a year behind me in training. Haven’t seen his name or thought of him in 15 years! Thanks for posting that.

Hey y'all.
In case you haven't been following two closely, that ETOH fella been positing............................



SCIENCE.


That carp ain't allowed around here, ya know.

Nope, can't have that. Gonna hafta ask Mr Rick to ban him with the 'flave and all.

Geno

That's good. I'm thankful that so many good people are working on this problem. It is only a matter of time/resources before they beat this.

yes -- all things are possible, some things are more probable.

good site, but basically they all are asking the same question, which is a question of timing.

general drug mechanisms involve a series of steps, absorption, distribution, effect, degradation, elimination.

general "bug" mechanisms have their own "clock" absorption, distribution, growth, reproduction.

even if the mechanism of both are known, the "timing" of causing an effect in two independent systems is difficult, let alone at which step in each the researcher wants the change.

to complicate the matters, each "carrier" has different physiological parameters, health issues, and insurance carriers (sorry had to put that in)

thanks for the site reference will be checking it often although it would be difficult for a person if they don't speak tech jargon.

You can have all the carp you want. Redfish drum too,,,blekkk 🤮

Geno! WTH you got against carp?

Asians around here love carp. They snag em and then beat them over the head with a Louisville Slugger.

Bingo. Thanks for your scientific approach ETOH. Definitely goes over my head but you’ve provided me with info I’ve been using- and it’s worked

He is brilliant and deserves our ear. Believe him.

carp, crap,

that spillin an tipein stuff ranks rite up their with SCIENCE.

dont mene nuthin'

jess a buncha hifalootin' ackeydemics makin like they noes everthin.

Geno

Am I the only one here that just wants to borrow Etoh's brain for just a little while? Like a lifetime?

Anyone who has a handle that's the abbreviation for ethanol would be a shoe-in for Most Popular Campfire Member.