Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

I'm not a religious guy and quite frankly I think these people are irresponsible in their actions. God doesn't protect Christians from a hurricane, earthquake or tornado, I don't see why he's going to make an exception with Corona - and to date he has not.

That said, I don't really see a difference constitution wise from the corona virus and the government telling a church they can't meet because of any political reason. Then again, no one is ever going to accuse me of being a constitutional scholar.

I know there is some precedent against some of the religions that don't believe in traditional medicine when it comes to the life of a child, but this is adults choosing the practice their religion.

I also assume that one could argue no one is stopping them from assembling but the CDC recommends 6 feet apart or they should meet remotely via the internet - however that is a law regarding the free exercise thereof and the right of the people to peaceably assemble.

interesting times.

God, is indifferent and often-times cruel. And worshipers of ANY faith, that decide to gather together given the present situation are MORONS...

I don't think God is in the business of protecting people from the trials of mortal life. His role is to provide salvation from sin. Although at times it seems He intervenes to protect someone if their doing His work. Like the Blues brothers.

The problem is these people gather, get infected and then spread it to others. Your rights end where mine begin.

A good question. As is stated right here often, every "crisis" chips away at our Rights.

We've seen how the 2nd Amendment has been annihilated, so there's no reason to think the same won't happen here. That said I think restricting gatherings right now is probably the right thing to do, but it's a very fine line.

I will be surprised if the government can legally stop adults from assembling for religious purposes.

People are going to gather.
If you are afraid of catching C19 and dying or suffering, it is incumbent on YOU to avoid those people!

If you go to the gas station, the grocery, the doctor,..or even to your mailbox, you can't avoid them.

It will be a great day when "The fat lady sings", and all this virus business is over.

I haven't had a problem.

I've always used a paper towel to grab the pump handle with too, long before C19.

BYO rattlers

The thing is that the people who are complaining that the quarantines are lasting too long are the same ones who ignore the recommendations, which is what causes the quarantine times to increase.

03/30/20 04:06 PM EDT
A Florida pastor was arrested on Monday for holding services at a Tampa megachurch in violation of a public health order prohibiting large gatherings to stem the spread of the coronavirus.

Pastor Rodney Howard-Browne was charged with misdemeanor counts of unlawful assembly and violation of the public health rules, according to Fox 13, Tampa Bay’s local affiliate.

Howard-Browne’s apprehension came after he held two Sunday services with up to 500 attendees, even offering bus service to the church.

“His reckless disregard for human life put hundreds of people in his congregation and thousands of residents who may interact with them this week in danger,” said Hillsborough County Sheriff Chad Chronister, who issued an arrest warrant earlier Monday.

Despite social distancing measures to curb person-to-person transmission of the coronavirus, the River at Tampa Bay Church announced earlier this month that it intended to remain open to comfort those in need, even as the number of confirmed coronavirus cases rose across the country.

“In a time of national crisis, we expect certain institutions to be open and certain people to be on duty. We expect hospitals to have their doors open 24/7 to receive and treat patients. We expect our police and firefighters to be ready and available to rescue and to help and to keep the peace. The Church is another one of those essential services. It is a place where people turn for help and for comfort in a climate of fear and uncertainty,” the church said in a statement.

The River at Tampa Bay Church was one of several regional churches that drew hundreds of worshipers recently despite bans on public gatherings amid the coronavirus pandemic........................................
https://thehill.com/regulation/cour...or-arrested-for-holding-services-despite

I think it will probably hold up in court as the prohibition doesn’t effect just churches but any gathering over so many people. So the argument is going to be that it’s as narrowly tailored as possible and doesn’t single out religion

I don’t necessarily agree with the people saying God will protect the congregation from illness. Everything I’ve saw in the Bible is that God will protect your soul, can’t recall anything saying he’ll protect your mortal life

I understand, God can do what HE pleases.

The problem with that argument is they're not counting people at the door of Walmart.

I'm a Christian and I know I'll die like everyone else. I'll have injuries, sickness, and calamities just like everyone else. The Bible says that we're in the world and that we are to obey the laws. Yes, the 1st gives us the right to meet for religious reasons but we're supposed to use common sense, too. Meeting at this time is within our rights but it's pushing your luck and some of them are likely to regret it when an entire congregation comes down sick and maybe a few die.

What about "the government" holding church members accountable for the death by stoning of adulterers/adulteresses in their midst?

John, if all, the sinners were stoned, it's be like the food fight in Animal House.

Take a break?

This is a copy and paste from the CDC website. Appears it's in the constitution.



Federal Law

The federal government derives its authority for isolation and quarantine from the Commerce Clause of the U.S. Constitution.

Under section 361 of the Public Health Service Act (42 U.S. Code § 264), the U.S. Secretary of Health and Human Services is authorized to take measures to prevent the entry and spread of communicable diseases from foreign countries into the United States and between states.

The authority for carrying out these functions on a daily basis has been delegated to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC).
CDC’s Role

Under 42 Code of Federal Regulations parts 70 and 71, CDC is authorized to detain, medically examine, and release persons arriving into the United States and traveling between states who are suspected of carrying these communicable diseases.

As part of its federal authority, CDC routinely monitors persons arriving at U.S. land border crossings and passengers and crew arriving at U.S. ports of entry for signs or symptoms of communicable diseases.

When alerted about an ill passenger or crew member by the pilot of a plane or captain of a ship, CDC may detain passengers and crew as necessary to investigate whether the cause of the illness on board is a communicable disease.

Matthew 5:45 states
That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.

We're all part of a fallen world and have to live with what happens. In regard to gathering for worship. Paul Harvey used to say that self government will not work without self discipline. Our church is not assembling as normal. I miss church very much and seeing my friends but for now we are being safe. We have many elderly members that are as dear to me as my own family and though I don't mind the risk for me I refuse to put them in danger. I think by taking this approach we take the government's power away from them.

The question is - does your right to worship take priority over others' right to life? And why would you want it to?

I believe that is non-sequitor.

I think it's perfectly on point.

UMC has us shut down right now. I held my Cemetery Committee meeting outside last week. Everyone kept their distance, yet we had a productive meeting.

First, religion is protected by the First Amendment, just as the right to keep and bare arms is protected by the Second. But I have come to believe that all these rights are only on paper and have little doubt that before the ink dried they were being compromised and are to this day all the more. So we will see, but his case should be air tight for a dismissal.
Second, have you read any passages in Scripture about Jesus healing the sick and raising people from the dead? He also said these things and greater will the folks who will come later will do. It happens with faith in the God I know.

I'm partial to long sleeves.

Well... while I beleive in the concept of blocking large gatherings to sequester the spread of the virus....

I do beleive the exemption of this rule should apply to smaller and more repressed relgions... such as the muslum relgion....

KFWA,

In this instance, nobody make a law "respecting the establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof".

People and area's are being quarantined due to a deadly pathogen, and as a result public gatherings are effectively prohibited. Religion gatherings were not in any way singled out. Just as we do not allow religious child sacrifice as an exception to our laws against murder, religions does not give people the right to spread infectious disease.

I posted a recent SCOTUS precedent in another thread addressing this.

If they are locked up you can.

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/14728182#Post14728182

Parse the question and find the answer. Are we making a regulation primarily concerning public health which incidentally affects religion, no more or less than any publicly attended event? Or intended particularly to restrict the free xercise of religion?

One could try jaywalking across a 4-lane per side freeway at rush hour also, depending on "faith" to protect one's self.

Survivors? God doesn't want them anyway......

The Bible tells us to obey our authorities unless they conflict the clear word of god ( the bible ) .

God expects us to use our brain , that is why he gave us one.

To ignore health risks and expect god to protect us is way out in left field.

This where I am at... We also have a number of widows in the 80 to 90 year range, several with frail health. However, they feel strongly to be at church whenever the doors are open.

We have in the past cancelled services on marginal snow/ice days simply to NOT put the elderly members at risk of a slip, fall, broken hip. For me, same philosophy here. While we may arguably have the constitutional right to gather, it is not worth the downside risk to health and well being of our elderly members. JMO. YMMV.

It's like Big Girls and spandex yoga pants, they have the right to wear them but they really shouldn't.

Give it 18-24 months to work it's way up the courts system and there are going to be some really interesting cases arriving at the SC level about where laws that are being enforced and the first amendment come into conflict.

For the topic at hand, I don't blame the pastor, I blame his flock for being so (insert adjective of choice) to show up.

I think that ended with the demise of divine right kings.

When you hammer and hammer at people that it is their obligation to show up, then tell them to use their own judgement about whether or not to do so, you have not really given them much chance at making an intelligent decision on the matter.

I gave up on organized religion as an altruistic entity 30 years ago so I can't argue with your assessment!

It is.

Oliver Wendell Holmes -1919 re: Schenk v. United States


"The most stringent protection of free speech would not protect a man falsely shouting fire in a theatre and causing a panic. [...] The question in every case is whether the words used are used in such circumstances and are of such a nature as to create a clear and present danger that they will bring about the substantive evils that Congress has a right to prevent."

again, I'm showing my ignorance here - not a lawyer, don't claim to have any guidance

but I'm not sure just because the law doesn't specifically address religion and religion only, that Religion still does not get an exemption.

maybe the CDC does have the ability to override it

but I don't think the founding fathers determined that our constitutional rights are to only be upheld during "normal" times. in fact, I'd argue those rights are more important during times of crisis. (see Patriot Act)

now it seems like common sense to stay away from a crowd - and I'm not debating the common sense part of it, just the legality.

at any rate, its seems like it is well covered here with the rebuttal.

It wouldn't have anything to do with the collection plate, would it?

thats what I first told my wife - The mega church has bills to pay.

It doesn't.

I posted the case law yesterday in another thread.

How would I know whether you caught this at church, then sneezed on me in the grocery check out?

It is not anyone's right to infect me, or my wife, or my family, or my friends, and religion has no special rights, other than No State Imposed Religion.

I pretty much hate government in general, but it does have some necessary functions. One is to protect the people in dire times.

Moronic , selfish and dangerous. You have to go see some charlatan to worship God? Any preacher that insists you come to his church during a possible pandemic is a charlatan.

No social distance and lots of elderly in pics. And we will have to pay for their healthcare if they get sick.

A 3 year old is protected by the second amendment so you can give him, her a Glock 19 a couple boxes of shells for their 4th birthday? Will the NRA bring it to the SC?

Absolute common sense here. This is the whole issue simplified.