Got one buddy who will only buy welded. His preference is Crestliner. Another buddy who claims that riveted is perfect and he will only buy a Lund.

3rd buddy has owned riveted and welded. Actually owns both now and has no preference but his biggest newest boat is all welded. It is made by G3, who as near as I can tell makes their flat bottoms welded and their V-hulls riveted.

Any boat can fail. Is failure more likely with a welded or a riveted hull?

Who here has had a failure of either a welded or a riveted hull? Can you detail what the failure was and if there were any root causes particular to type of construction?

Not even a question, welded only. Rivets get loose and leak. This is what I've done for 30 years, I know.

Welded heavy gauge... forever boats

The right builder is more important

This.^^^
I can't believe we agree on this.
Do I know you?

I haven’t had failures with either but my preference is welded, all other things being equal. Rivets have a natural tendency to start working (wearing out and moving), which can bring on leaks and corrosion between the parts that are riveted together. And one rivet starts working, it’s just a matter of time until the ones next to it start as well and so on. I guess that’s not a huge problem if you stay on top of it and know how to remove and replace rivets, but there is no denying that welds, again, all other things equal, are stronger bonds than rivets.

Cost may be a consideration though. Our old 1970’s Model Ouchita Jon boat leaks like a sieve, but she’s still great getting back into creeks 40 or 50 years after she was made. I have a G3 Bay 18 DLX. Welded hull. That boat has been very solid and dependable on my home lake which has plenty of chop, wind and dumbasses on ski boats and jet skis in the summer.

And I’m sorry, but if a person willingly and happily rides a jet ski and they’re over the age of 23, they’re a jackass.

Am I correct in that G3 welds the flat bottoms, and rivets the V-hulls? If so do you know why?

Any experience with the G3 flat bottom or bay boats on big water and/or chop?

Mr. stevenson at the moment you would probably be wise to distance yourself from me.... make up a disagreement call me names and you will be in good standing...

All welded.

I will only go with Welded boats. I like a chine built in and then run a bead. You can't just weld butt to butt and get the same performance. I have no use for riveted boats. I especially like Alumaweld Boats out of Oregon.

Alumaweld doesnt make a riveted boad! You have them confused with some other manufacturer! I prefer welded, have had both, welded is superior!

Heym, have you been drinkin? may want to re-read that post

welded all the way

No, it is not mine. Just a random sample from Craigslist. I'll have one in a year or two. Possibly sooner if this recession forces people to sell toys cheap enough.

The thing about heavy welded aluminum boats is they will outlast you. Buy your dream boat, keep it forever enjoy a rare thing.....

Alumaweld owner checking in. I can't imagine running it so hard to be concerned about breaking any welds.

Granted, I'm a river, lakes, bay fisherman.

No big water.

Welded. If you can afford it, I've had several you don't worry about much. Having said that right now I have a 1975 15 foot riveted boat I picked up for lake fishing. It weeps a little they all do but not enough to see any water build up on a nice day. And I paid about 1/10th the price that an equivalent welded boat would have been, so...

What is the cage around the back of the cockpit for?

Alumacraft and Lund make some nice boats. I presently own a 16 foot 1968 Lund. And she still has never leaked a bit. But it is just a little something to get the grandkids on the lake until I have the cash saved to buy a REAL boat.

Welded over rivets ..
Glued is best..
I had a duraboat that had no rivets or welds...it never leaked a drop...wish they made bigger boats..

So you do not fall over the side while reeling in a salmon. There is actually a deck in the back at gunwale height to stand on and fish. That is where the little tyke is standing.

I currently have both, a welded Gregor and a riveted Lowe. The Gregor is my first welded boat but I don’t think I’ll be buying any more riveted stuff after this. I don’t ever want to worry about bucking rivers and resealing a leaky boat every spring anymore.

All welded al the way. A buddy and I were in the bay floundering in the early1990s and a storm came in that was not supose to.It went from flat calm to 4 to 5 ft waves in 20 min our 25 min run turned into 4 1/2 hrs back to the ramp.The bow was caved in almost 7 inches all the way across and I dont think a rivit boat would have stayed together much less afloat through the beating we took that night. I took it to the guy that built it and thanked him for the solid boat and 2 weeks later it was home with 3 extra braces in the bow from the floor to the deck and its still kicken.

I have a number of aluminum boats. All but one are riveted. Dating from the late 40's to 2017, I have had good service from all, but also take good care of them. For my applications, which is mostly east of the Mississippi and both fresh and salt water, riveted works fine. If I had my 'druthers, I suppose I'd take welded, but could happily survive with just the riveted.

That said, if you are dealing with big water and where hulls get pounded, the welded will hold together longer. That's not my situation though, for the most part.

That is a jet, it has a v8 under the rear deck. The rail is for safety running rapids

Had one of them too, 15 footer. Good boat, but not as heavy duty as most any welded job, pretty thin material. Mine was beat to piss as the first owner left it at the dock through storms not tied well and it showed. Didn't leak tho.

Oh balderdash!
Are these jerks picking on you? Send them a fart bomb in the mail. That’ll fix ‘em!

Any flat bottom boat is going to beat the hell out of you and out of the boat in chop. Even a 10 degree deadrise hull built for white water rivers will be harsh on a lake or salt hitting waves. That is what the deep V is for. It cuts through the wave instead of bouncing off the top.

All true, a deep vee will require more horsepower and be less stable at rest, but cuts the waves better. A 10degree v is a nice compromise for lakes. Offshore you want an 18 degree plus vee

A buddy in high-school had his grandfathers from the 1960's 13' Gregor we used to go everywhere in.

Thing was an indestructible aluminum beast.

This. The end.

My choice. Alumaweld was mentioned earlier. They are an OK boat but I am not a fan of their box beam hull construction.

http://wooldridgeboats.com/

A lot of people dismiss the welded jet boats out of hand. They think fuel consumption and price to be prohibitive. And they are pretty much correct on fuel consumption. The one I happened to pick for the pic has a Ford 351 under the hood. My Son in Law recently purchased a 24 foot Weldcraft with a 460 Ford in it. And yes, any time you run a big V-8 at 4000 RPM and at 3/4 WOT for a couple hours you are going to pay for it at the gas pump. That is why they usually come with 40 to 100 gallons of fuel capacity on board.

But like all boats, they depreciate pretty rapidly. There are bunch of 1980s built hulls out there with low hour power plants and new looking interiors for dirt cheap. The 20 ft NWjet pictured has 300 hours on the engine and is offered for $17K. The kids' 24 foot Weldcraft came in under $30K with two hours on a brand new engine. And they often have heat in the cab.

If you have a bunch of kids who want to ski or swim off the boat, a jet is the absolute safest boat in the water for that.

I did not realize riveted hulls were still being built. Everything around here is welded.

Welded boats can be far lighter and that can be important running real small water. Sticking a thick bottom welded boat can turn an easy job into a nightmare. I have both and have dealt with both a lot. The thin bottom riveted boats will do just fine for many years. Other than serious stuff in skinny water the welded boat is the better choice.

Currently on my 5th Lund over the last 35 years! Never have had one leak at the rivets, only with an old rubber hull plug. Plenty of rough water, never babied, never worn out... just ready for a change or bigger boat. If it aint broke, don't fix it!!!

BTW, how often do you guys have to anneal those welded boats? Will the "candle method" work and do you have to launch and immerse when done???

All kidding aside, I have seen plenty of custom welded boats pushed to the limits in arctic AK w/o failure. With that said, I prefer holes and rivets rather than joined "seams" w/ the potential for a change in metallurgy. Just me... to each his own.

I knew we could find something to agree on.

What about a flat like this with a 15 deg deadrise? G3 Bay Boat Or is this not really considered a flat bottom?

My G3 is the Bay 18 DLX. Of course it’s aluminum, but I wouldn’t call it a flat bottom and definitely not a deep V. My boat sees a lot of chop, and it certainly is rougher than a heavy fiberglass deep-v, but with the boat trimmed right and keeping the speed reasonable it does just fine. But I’m 33. I might think differently if I was a little older.

River boats have a 10 degree or less V...... 15 degree is relatively steep, definitely a lake boat, that would even function a medium to big lake

My boat is a 35x23x16 , the 16 is the final deadrise... it's considered an ocean boat

Welded!!

Welded. Most village folk along the Tanana, Koyukuk and Yukon Rivers run Alwelds. I imagine is pretty much the same along the river systems in other regions too. Out here on the AKPEN you won't find a riveted skiff in fresh or saltwater. They are either welded aluminum or custom-built fiberglass.

I'm 62 now and not wouldn't appreciate a rough water ride. On the other hand, I'd not likely be too adventurous in rough weather anyway.

I have leaned towards crestliner V-hulls for a long time.My buddy who owns one loves his and it's his second.
Trouble is that I have heard and seen enough in printed articles and online reviews that leads me to believe that at least some years/models of Crestliners have had failure issues with the transoms.
That and some detailed first hand advice from another poster here about his Crestliner with the same issue tells me that the issue is real.

Which affordable mass manufacturer makes a roomy, wide, welded and bomb-proof V-hull?

Seems like this thread has probably made it clear to you, but welded. My Alumaweld supervee had zero issues, and my Duckwater is a tank. But if I couldn’t afford a welded boat and rivets got me on the water it’d be fine...until I could afford a welded...

BAM...

I can be guilty of overthinking...

Not drinking just reading like a second grader,while eating dinner! Thanks for keeping me in line, as i stray easily!

What is your definition of affordable?

Like I said earlier. Used boats get cheap real fast. And actually, every boat on the water is used.

Craigslist and boat trader are your friends.

A used heavy welded aluminum will hold it's value much better than any other boat. I bought a used Hewescraft riverunner 19 ft , used it for 5 yrs and sold it for what I paid.

New , you will lose a bit but not as much as you think

I would not and do not hesitate to run my G3 in very skinny and stumpy water. With an 8’ beam and sponsons on the back, it’s doesn’t take much water to float her. I really like her a lot.

I've looked at used boats by Gregor, Allweld, Hanko and other semi-custom makers. They'll likely never be affordable in my way of thinking.

My definition of affordable is around 25k for a new boat/motor/trailer combo. Used is another story, and I prefer to buy used.
I just backed off on a riveted 2008 G3 V167 combo that the owner needed 10K for. I believe his rig is worth $10,000 dollars, but it is both shorter and narrower than I really want.
Might need to reconsider it as I will mostly fish alone and on sheltered waters.

I have an Alumaweld Intruder, purchased new in 2004. There selling used today for what i paid new! Inflation and the explosion of expensive welded boats, has kept the price up at least here in the northwest!

Welded weigh more but are less likely to leak.

Leaks also depend on how much you'll use the boat. I've had my Lowe since 1999 and the rivets don't leak or at least not enough for me to notice but I don't use my boat enough...

True, I was in the market last year and the used prices were so high I went new and got exactly what I wanted

Post pics
And a price!!!

John you have been starting boat threads every couple of days now..... time to schit or get off the pot....

In 24 years of ocean service, crabbing in December also, my old riveted Starcraft has never had a loose rivet. The Pacific Coast north of Cape Mendocino and south of Coos Head is not very pacific. The access to open ocean is over bars. The Rogue River bar at Gold Beach is legendary. The Starcrafts are the proven boats, I believe of the Walleye fisherman on the Great Lakes which I believe blows up as steep and quick as any water in North America.
The technology of tig welding has improved over the years, but I am not aware of any welded aircraft, I personally have ridden tens of thousands of miles in Alaska and the Aleutians in my company's DC-3, it was 50 years old when they bought it.

I agree in general terms, but you gotta admit that a good boat thread does alleviate some of the symptoms of Viral Panic...

Seem to remember a thread where you said you were looking to fish Mississippi and Wisconsin river....if that is the case and you aren't looking to play Bassmasters I cannot imagine a 16 footer with a 40/50 horse tiller not being enough boat for you, especially solo. One thing you may or may not have thought of is you'll be launching and loading this thing solo - some guys lack the gene for getting a boat back on the trailer, it's exasperated when they start to get into 20 footers and 8 foot beams.

Cool website, Lennie. They make some nice looking boats.

Indeed John, I am not complaining... just trying to help you spend $.... what are friends for?

It sounds like a 1/4 inch welded hull with a big V8 might be overkill for your use.

I would give the Hewescraft river runner a good look. Check out some of the samples on this page.
https://www.smartmarineguide.com/boats-for-sale/hewescraft-river-runner

Agreed.

And maybe especially so until I reacquaint with skills I haven't used in decades...

Great point flintlocke!!!

Save it be for the recent increased use of composites in aircraft, we have all trusted our lives at 30,000 feet for years and years to riveted aluminum skins over aluminum or steel (welded) frames subjected to heavy loads and "G's", extreme temperatures, turbulence, and weather! I know that air is thin and requires "lift" to keep from falling from the sky BUT some of that water is awful deep and cold too! As flintocke pointed out, not too many "all welded" planes (if any?) out there.

A few loose rivets are not going to sink you very quick BUT I could see where a failed or separated seam could be a liitle more dicey.
Give the aluminum and rivets some love... the wood stocked, CM blued pre-64 M70 of the boat world!!!

Why on earth didn’t you buy that Ranger 180 center counsel I sent you the link for? That’ll fish any water you want to run up N and also work for you down in the gulf when it’s time.

As to the starcraft boats on the Great Lakes, it may have been so at one time. And I remember seeing quite a few Starcraft boats around in the 1960sand 1970s.
My experience is limited to Michigan and Superior, but I wanna say that probably 80% of the aluminum I see on the water there comes from Lund. Maybe another 15% from Crestliner, and occasionally an Alumacraft or Lowe.

My dad had a Starcraft back in the late 60s. Great boat for us then. Rarely see one anywhere today.

My most recent craigslist search covered 300 miles from y home and I think there was one ad for a Starcraft...

I called him as soon as I saw the link. It was sold and on it's way out his driveway when I called.

Edit; The guy answered the phone,"This is Gary, the boat is sold".
Guess he got a lot of calls.

Keep it real....

Just depends on what you are doing with it, riveted boats typically smaller, lighter and powered w/ob.... nothing wrong with them for most anything. We use to call them "green" boats... cuz they usally were...several companies making that style boat in a welded hull, still light and affordable, Alweld comes to mind. The trend today is welded and has becomes common place. But plenty of good ole riveted boats around. Starcraft made some pretty big deep v riveted boats, they maybe still do. Bigger boats w IB jets are almost exclusively welded

Hewescraft is the largest selling welded aluminum boat in Alaska, where the conditions (bays, ocean, rivers, lakes) can get pretty rough and you have to depend on the equipment.

The only reason some people buy riveted is to save money, which is a legitimate choice, but not for quality/dependability, and having good resale value in future years, which welded boats provide.

Finally. Someone gets it. Tip of the hat sir...

I have had both have 2 welded boats right now. The rivets eventually get loose and leak. Cheaply made welded boats do crack at the weld too. If you want a forever boat buy one that is what you want from a quality builder. For me that was welded.

Had 2 Starcrafts back in the 60’s through 80’s. They were great boats and very popular in northern NYS. Don’t see many these days. Lund seems to be the aluminum boat of choice now.

I have a Sylvan 16' run-a-bout and it's riveted. I bought it in 1989 and to this day there is no leak of any kind.

I've owned two Alumacraft and two Sylvans…….all riveted and not a complaint with any of them.

More water outside the boat than inside I say. Whatever that means.

I'd never own a riveted boat. They can be very well built, but each below the water rivet is a possible point of failure. Based on my observations rivets are more likely to fail than welds.

I am not selling boats of any particular assembly method and what I say here prolly does not apply to sport boats at all. But in the world of Alaska work boats, welded aluminum has had serious and unending problems. A company that I worked for commissioned an aluminum shallow draft boat, the Koyuk. Imagine a 38' foot landing craft, twin Cat D336TA power, light enough to be lifted by a single 50 ton crane on and off the mother barge,capable of negotiating rivers, bays, beach landings and open ocean. It did the job for years, no disastrous failures, but at EVERY opportunity it was lifted onto the barge for structural welding repairs. It wasn't a bad design, it just had too many stresses constantly working on it, keel coolers with 180 deg water circulating immediately adjacent to 40 deg ocean and hull skin. Structural seams cracking right and left. The same design was used with steel, built in Morgan City La., I think a fleet of 5 boats, and in 8 years, I don't ever remember any kind of structural repair, and I would have known. The really heavy stuff required to put Prudhoe Bay in production was all delivered by the steel boats.
The welded aluminum sport boats are great safe boats and I would own one if I could afford it, but, it ain't the only game in town. Starcraft especially designed the Islander series for safety in rough water, a huge deep vee bow for a gentle entry, tapering back to a nearly flat stern for the ability to get up on step instantly when you need to ride a big swell in over a bar entrance. I wouldn't have taken my kids and wife over the bar if there was the slightest doubt.

Airplanes, and semi trailers are riveted.

As a welder, I’d say welded!

They aren't designed to float.

My 14' Crestliner is riveted. I've never been in a welded boat. To each his own, it seems cabin fever goes on forever.

If I only had a nickel for every rivet I've tightened or replaced in Lowe's and Lund's in my life........

It's never a matter of "will they leak" it's how much they will leak.
A riveted boat with a elevated floor and a auto bilge might never appear to have rivet seeps.....but they do...

Just put your non-leaking riveted boat on the trailer and fill it with about 6 inches of water and tell me what you see.

Not only that, but pressurized aircraft leak air constantly. They have pressurization system that constantly maintains pressure but inside cabin air is always leaking out.
On a boat the highest pressure on the hull is below waterline. It's not air trying to leak in.

I've been in dozens of riveted boats and noticed very few problems. What I do note on talking to craigs list sellers is that a fair number of riveted Lunds have been repaired.
Also noted that a fair number of welded Crestliners have had issues. Mostly with the transom.

It aint a perfect world, and I'm thinkin g harder on the G3 that I passed on. It's in good condition, but reasonably priced. And I know I can break anything...

Rivets will flex without cracking.

I beg your pardon.....:-)

Bet they all have a hand pump in the front left float hatch too! I’ve never not seen one get pumped out before takeoff if it’s been sitting overnight.

I have two Crestliner's that both leak just fine..,..

Check.....our's typically have a hole here and there to go with their various loose rivets...

My money would never buy anything but a welded boat

Always a good bet you’re in AK when there’s a small aluminum boat with a huge outboard with a jet foot on it. Rode many river miles in a 17’ semivee that had a 200 Yamaha hanging off the back. Down here the boat in your pic would probably have a 40 on it.

I haven't read through this whole thread but I weld aluminum and have repaired many many different types of aluminum boats. In my opinion I'll take welded construction any day as I can repair it if needed. That being said several years ago I repaired a G3 that the owner hit a small log in the river. I was amazed at how thin of material it was made out of. Due to that I'd look long and hard and pay more for something with a thicker bottom.

That'd be my other Crestliner in Montana that has the 40 jet on it, same hull design but it's two foot shorter....

The biggest problem I have with my boats, is getting them in water.

I have a lund alaskan that has rivets and it’s dry as a bone.

I think it has to do with how you treat / handle (don’t abuse it) the boat... mine is also only 4 years old..

That good sir - is a huge motor on a small boat... that would be like skipping a rock.

I'd have to stay outta Alaskan waters to avoid abuse.
Flat bottoms and semi-vee's take a pounding on rough lakes when the winds come up but you have to have them to run the shallow rivers between the lakes which can be wall to wall rapids, rocks and rollers at times.

Then there are those occasional beaver dam and fallen tree jumps that can add to the issue.
Alaska wasn't built for calm lake queens.....

Based on your observations, you have seen them leak?

Those.... those hulls are made in China...! Ask Craig Compost

Speaking of Craig..

I liked the earlier version of his video, "Come Hell or Low Water" they use to mail out on DVD.
Still pretty good, I like how they topped this version off with the Caribou kill....

This makes a perfect Hells Canyon boat. And yes I copied this off the internet because I don't do the canyon, thats how you die.

2010 BWC 26' Gatling Grey TwinAll aluminum is polished!(2) 6.2Litre Cadillac Supercharged LSA Motors(2) Hamilton 213 Pumps with custom pump workCustom 28" wide cross storage box with dividersNew Lexan WindowsHDS-10 GPS UnitWash Down KitCenter Rigid LED Light BarRear spot lights(2) Remote Spot LightsAM/FM CD Players(2) Amps1 10" Subwoofers with Rockford Fosgate AmplifiersCB Radio(5) Front air ride seatsRight Hand Stick SteerMany more options, too many to listTwin axle trailer with new tires(2) spare tiresShow Room Great Condition!

Following this

Keep in-mind not all welded boats are created equal

The blanket statement welded better is not really true
I can be, but not always

Hank

I’m reasonably sure, having experience welding, that my 1983 Gregor is stick welded. Just by bead shape and puddle fill. Don’t know if that’s good or bad, the little bit of repair welding I did on it I TIG welded. But it’s a pretty solid little boat. Pretty sure everything now is probably TIG or more likely spool gunned.

I have a buddy who used to build aluminum semi trailers, they were all TIG so maybe boats are too. The one guy I am friends with who does a little boat building does it with aluminum MIG.

I wonder if Venezuelan Destroyers are riveted or welded. That should answer the question.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yV8U0bhD9dY

I have a small Starcraft runabout that's riveted. I don't beat it up, and I don't think anyone else did either. 75hp Johnson, so it is fully powered...dry as a bone too. 59 years old. My son had a welded Tracker that kept cracking.

I had a little SeaKing 14 footer when we lived in AK that we trolled for trout a lot in. The buddy I traded out of it had bucked all the rivets and given the bottom a thick coat of Gluvit from WestMarine, it didn’t leak a drop. Another bud that used to go fish with us would take his Chrysler Little Fisherman riveted boat and he had better not leave the launch without a bailing can, that thing leaked around every seam and rivet in it.

I will say that while I prefer a welded boat, I’d rather have a riveted hull that leaks a little but has a good reliable motor than have the best welded rig going with some finicky POS motor that runs when it wants to. Especially if I was running rivers or any body of water where wind can be an issue.

I see the Midwest boats with steering wheels with only 40 HP outboards. Most of hardcore Fishing friends use tiller handles all the way up to 300 HP.

Pretty good videos, Craig was/is a good promoter... He sold Phantom sport Jons and things changed, story is the owner of Bucher glass was in china dealing with a fbricator for some extrusions and there were these boat hulls laying around.. Next thing ya know they are importing the hulls and SX is born... They are not my thing, although they offer a lot of performance in a light package...
The motors typically have a short life and are ff noisy, I would have to wear muffs to go very far in one of them things... Put bottom line is no way ever would I buy a boat with a Chinese hull... done with them bastards, have been for some time... Its time to quarantine the aggressor and quit buying Chinese chit....

There's welding, and then there's welding.

More importantly, there's Aluminum, and then there's Aluminum.

Aluminum alloys come in various grades. Some hard, some soft, some brittle, some ductile.

Just as an example, the first boat I bought to take the G-kids fishing in was a little 14 foot Shasta with an 18 hp Merc. When I started drilling holes in the hull to mount rod holders and such, the Aluminum cut like butter. When we took the boat out on Brownlee Res and the wind came up in the morning at sunrise, the floor would visibly flex with impact of every wave. Within a half dozen outings, the floor had cracked at each flex point and water was coming in.

Brownlee is the first dam at the head of Hells Canyon. The lake averages maybe 1/4 to 1/2 mile across. But it is about 40 miles long. Each morning at Sunrise the breeze kicks up and produces six to eight inch chop.

We fished from the Shasta for two years, and periodically hit the switch on the bilge pump to remove the water.

Then I bought a 16 foot Lund hull. I built a console into it and put my little Merc 18 on it. Drilling holes in the Lund was night and day difference from the Shasta. The wall thickness was very similar, but the Aluminum in the Lund was much harder.

In the same lake, under the same conditions, there was no flex in the Lund hull.

You will find the same to be true of welded boats. Some are constructed of superior, expensive Aluminum alloys. Some are made of less expensive alloys, and are more prone to stress cracks or heat damage along weld lines.

Most of the better built boats will tout their alloys in their advertising copy. It pays to become familiar with the alloys, or at least know how examples of the boat model has performed for others before investing a large sum of hard earned money.

The Midwest has LOTS of 17 to 22 ft Alums with high HP OBs and Kickers

This was mine previous



main motor was a 250 Verado (I have to say its is an awesome motor)
These are all over the Midwest
I will admit some of these guys running them we too hard here on the Saginaw Bay are taking the toll on ALL Alum boats
Saginaw Bay of Lake Huron can be a real Beast to run on at times

The Midwest is not just frog ponds with Grandpas Johnrude

I just noticed Jaws on TV in the back ground kind of funny

Hank

Or to sum it up, welds can crack and leak too.

That's a great boat.

That was my point
Hank

Yeah, like who wants a steering console taking up precious fishable floor space anway.

Plenty riveted boats being used on big water in these parts. I don't know anyone in these parts that thinks Crestliner is the equal of Lund or AlumaCraft. I haven't looked at a Crestliner in some time and probably won't, either, but when I last bought a boat, I couldn't get away fast enough.

Well I just use my 3 riveted hull boats normally (lakes and non rapids rivers) 75 F-16 Yukon Alumacraft, 78 S-16 Lund, 17" Sylvan the y work just fine without being welded. MB

I had a lighweight riveted aluminum hull with a jet pump, I beat the hell out of it running the Yellowstone and it leaked like a sieve, and was pretty much used up in a few years.

Switched to heavy welded aluminum and they are tanks that will last longer than I will.

I'm driving a 1973 (since 1975) flat-bottom rivet boat, currently with 40hp Yamaha jet unit. Tell me about it. Nothing the cheap little bilge pump I installed in the stern doesn't fix, with a console toggle switch. Saves pulling the plug every so often. Worse, forgetting to re-install it when slowing down.....

Of course, if I ever needed a live-well, I'd not have to buy one.

Could you please expand a little on what we should be looking for in terms of an alloy number or some other objective measure? I've seen metals categorized by number, before but not sure if I would recognize one being better than the other unless someone pointed it out. Thanks!

I liked the Sports Jon but just couldn't justify the money they wanted for my needs, not that they weren't worth the price.

We just fab up our own Jet Sleds...........

Your gregor boat was welded with there mig process. They preheat in front of the weld, and post heat behind the weld. Gregor is a good boat, they bring a premium price, for used boats. I have flipped 5 or 6 in the last ten years, and always made a good profit. The 15 ft Gregor with the 20" transom, are sought after by guys with cartop carriers, in the Northwest ! They make great bay crabbing boats, for weekend users, and fish the high lakes well!

Really like my Welded Koffler 20 ft Baybee for Lake and good weather ocean use, twin Hondas 91,s boat has no issues. Bruce Koffler told me the problem with his boats is the hull does not wear out people just keep repowering them. Kayak rack, pole holder , Solar panel mounted,Tarp it to keep top in good shape, or I guess its a roll cage!
For river use I use an inflatable Jet Boat
https://youtu.be/RFCDQHvJcYA

A boat will a roll cage... frikken awesome...

Had an 18ft Baybee around for years, that boat was tuff as nails.
No roll cage on mine...:-(

That’s good to know. Mine is 14’6” with the shorter transom. I bought it partly due to wanting that style of boat when I lived in AK and partly due to the high sides and deep vee helping to keep my tot safe from falling out and should the wind come up. I paid $1100 for it with a trailer and an ancient 15hp outboard. I had to replace the seats and transom board but otherwise it’s been solid as Sears.

another Midwest boat...

Hillsdale?

Proper alloy selection combined with correct welding process can give some incredibly durable metal joints. HAZ in the weld joint can be reduced through lazer or cold metal pulsed welding, but base metal thickness is limited to around .100 IIRC.

Most fab shops won't be set up for these welding processes and I'd guess that most of the semi custom boats rely on heavier section metal and a spool gun.

I'd wager that .100 of 5083 alloy, welded with a low HAZ process would suffice for almost any use that didn't involve regular violent contact or extreme abrasion. If I were going to boat in extreme conditions, I'd feel better about heavier section metal and archaic welding process. Repair as needed.

No, I do not know the alloy numbers. I see some of the best known makers advertising alloy ID.

In my search I have depended upon performance evaluations. In the market I am surveying no one has ever accused Duckworth of using inferior materials or construction. Northwest Jet, Weldcraft, Alumaweld, and Miller Marine are recognized as durable boats which can endure the repeated pounding of adverse conditions.

Yes, and you roll the boat back in and take off.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=21qrnID0Ab8

Wrong

The reason for a riveted hull over a welded comes down to weight. If you want or need a light boat you go with a riveted hull, if weight isn't a factor and you want less worries you go welded. Edit: Second reason for a lot of people is price. A riveted hull is cheaper in general terms.

Aircraft structures are not welded because of load distribution. A weld the load is all in one place directly on the weld. A riveted (to include all fastener types) structure transfers the load to the entire structure. Seams are overlapped and in most cases terminate at a Bulkhead, Longerons, strings, stiffeners, and other heavy aircraft fittings. Show me a cargo ship that isn't welded!

All fasteners loosen over time from both load and temperature changes. Boat hull rivets absolutely loosen and leak!

Weld or riveted?

I have no use for rivets

.100 thick and a 40 horse tiller handle pump

What I find interesting (and it’s all about welds) is how the coastguard make Tracker lower it’s transom weights, and carry weights on their big jon boats after they increased the hull thickness.

This happened about 4-5 years ago when I was buying my Lund... as it turns out the Tracker thick hulls were busting the welds because the new thick aluminum was too strong and wasn’t flexing so it was popping the old welding tech... I’m not sure if they fixed it or not.

I've been running Lunds for 55 years with no leaky or loose rivets.

I think Boeing and Cessna are still using rivets.

And you are full of it! I have run Lunds in both Alaska and the East Coast they leak!

I laid out the reason aircraft are riveted.

It's the guy with the elevated floor and the bilge cycling on occasion and he doesn't know why syndrome.

I have spent a good amount of time on OLDER _. Sea racks, Crestliners, Lund, and Allwelds, hell even a Tracker (unusual for a guide to have a tracker boat).

I thought the sea ark plug was the live well it had so much water in it... it really caused me some “holy crap” moments.
The crestliner had soaked foam and was so heavy it wasn’t funny.
The tracker had some in it... As well as the all weld.
The lund was dry..

BTW - any resort boat being used like a rental, or an outback boat used in alaska is going to get the snot beat out of it.

90% of guys who buy new boats don’t beat the crap out of them ... so these are two different situations.

pressed as much as possible and welded panels the rest. you could rivet the seats i suppose.

Having owned several of each I have come to favor welded, the bilge pumps get less of a workout

This one is a Sea Nymph welded hull and doesn't leak a drop. It's my redneck bass boat... not sure it would be ideal for the Midwest walleye lakes though?

Riveted vs.. welded is like the best rifle or revolver for..................

Its geography, riveted don't care about a sand bar, but run that same hull over a rock bar in Ky. & all the rivet heads on the bottom just got sheared of.

Hint

I bought a 18 year old riveted boat 2 years ago. My first tipoff should have been when he told me how good of a bilge pump it had........

I get the privilege of stripping it down and beating the schit out of with a ball peen hammer next when I get the time.

Nicely done ...👍.... 100 thou aluminum?

If one could only predict violent contact with a rock or something..... LAFFIN...am I the only one that eats MRES....?

You got that 1/2 right, does that make yu 1/2 wrong?

It is 100% right. I could have given more details as to other reasons fasteners are used over welds but really no need to. But yes I did leave out that welds add a lot of weight to the aircraft. A normal rivet pitch of AD rivets weights a fraction of a weld. Even Hi-Loks weight less than a weld would. Fasteners are removable and replaceable. Though most do not properly replace working rivets. Some will try to buck them more, others will remove and replace with the same nominal size. When they should be going one over, so a repair rivet is the proper way to go about it. Unless of course the hole is a full size or close enough to step up to the next nominal. Another factor is in some places shear or Tension fasteners are required. But that is getting way into things.

Bottom line is a welded Aluminum Hull is a better route unless weight is a deciding factor.

The edit helped, good for you, not all fasteners loosen, not all riveted boats will leak, welded is great but besides weight price is a factor, glad i could clear this up for you

Are you using the hydraulic assist on the bigger motors. I can let go of the tiller handle on my 90 and it will track straight. My buddy put the assist on his 150.

I've wanted an all-welded boat, Crestliner, Alumacraft, etc. They are apparently better consturcted than my Lund, but in reality my boat has been as solid and leak-free as anything out there.
For what I paid and the performance, I'm happy to hang on to the boat I have for the foreseeable future.

Depends on how many rivets you use and where you put them.

I remember my Dad yelling while I was driving one of his many old Lonestar boats,
"to slow down, your going to beat the rivets out of the boat ! "

Wow, I learn something new every day. Riveted pontoons.

You might want to reread what I wrote as I said " A riveted hull is cheaper in general terms."

Yes all fasteners will loosen and or work given the time and loads being applied. I have seen them all and replaced them all. From DD's, E, Hucks, Hi-Loks, you name it they will work over time. Yes all riveted hulls will leak. Metal expands and contracts with temperature period! That will create enough to allow water to seep.

You cleared nothing up. Welded Hull Trumps Riveted Hull in everything except weight and price.

Weight and price, finally we can agree.... fyi... i have a handful of fasteners i have had to cut off, never gonna loosen, ever. Don't suppose you've seen any of them ever...
Leaky riveted boat's... all of them... oh my gawd, whats this world coming to? Metal expanding and contracting. rivets expanding & contracting... and glory be all at different rates...! Amazing chit, yer pretty funny guy, good imagination anyway...!

This has been entertaining! Especially when everybody know, the only thing that matters, is keeping water out of the people hole. It's each one own choice! Im out of popcorn,...

If your rivets don't leak ...you are not useing your boat to it's full potential...if your welded boat leaks ...good job ...learn more driving skills and work your way up to a MAN .

U leaky rivet guys ...get the kid under the boat with the hammer side of a splitting maul ...I YOU get up top wit ballpeen...... tap tap..move tap tap ....good for another trip !

My friend had structural problems with his welded jet boat. Not just the skin. If he kept using it, it might have literally broke in half. He doesn't slow down in rough water, so his boat takes a beating.

He hauled it back to the manufacturer to get repaired. Then again, after the first repair failed. And he thought it was the toughest welded boat made, after countless hours of research, talking to local guides, users, etc. before buying it.

He also took the boat to a local repair shop that fixes all the major brands. He said he learned a lot, and the gist was that there were a wide variety of brands in the shop getting repairs. They all had issues, if used hard. And the shop told him what was wrong with his boat. It was a structural design issue by the manufacturer. And they said the OEM repair wouldn't work, but he took it back to the manufacturer to retain his warranty. And the repair failed, as predicted.

I know others, with different brands of welded boats needing repair. Makes me wonder how much bro-science or redneck logic goes into the design vs. structural and material engineering, for these consumer grade boats. Seems like the end-users do the final testing.

Another friend runs a charter in AK. He says that he fully expects a welded boat to fail, which will require repairs. He told me to go by the number of hours on the hull (for a used boat), and ability/access/suitability for repair. In his experience, they will all crack, if used long enough.

Everything can fail and will fail given enough time and hard use.

I worked as a test engineer in a group with applied mechanics engineers and stress analysis engineers for a global machine manufacturer. Even with advanced FEA, and physical stress testing, we'd still have failures in the field. I can't imagine some of these small, consumer grade, boat manufacturers having the same amount of resources to do this level of virtual and physical testing.

They may not even fully understand the load cases. At least that was my assumption, after hearing about all the welded boat failures from friends and co-workers.

Failures from Which boat company? Have you seen some of the new welded boat frame/structure?
Boats like north river, weldcraft, thunder jet, boulton, river wild, etc... which one would you recommend?
If they don’t have the resources, maybe help them ?

Have ran way less boats than most of you, but have always had a Jon boat with a jet since I was 16. Owned 4. 2 were riveted and had outboard motors. 1 welded with inboard jet, and now a welded with outboard jet.

Both of my riveted boats at one point or another developed leaks, but were very easy to repair and work on. Both light, and cheap compared to welded.

My welded boats have never leaked or cracked despite hard use fishing shallow rocky rivers. They have taken some serious abuse. But they are more expensive and heavier

I say pick what specs matter most to you then decide. Need a lightweight cheaper boat that may develop some leaks here and there then go riveted. For me I’m gonna stay welded for my uses and needs, but honestly had no problem dealing with riveted boats.

I will say it was nice having a riveted 15/52 with a 40/30 jet. If need be two guys could pick it up and carry it to the river/trailer then put motor on.

I believe the major boat makers have done their tests. I have toured Alumaweld, Boulton , and Duckworth manufacturing sites, each has a engineer on staff! To assume they dont know how to build good products, is just nonsense! The guys still in business after years of building welded boats, know what they are doing! To assume they dont isnt logical! If one hasnt examined the damage or failures, their guessing! Experience trumps opinions everytime!

If I lived in the PNW, I think I'd have a Duckworth. They make one helluva boat, it appears.

!!!!!!
😉

... and usually at the most inopportune time.

Brooks?

Yeah, busy day the end of July, they were peaking on tourist flow.
Pretty impressive line-up though. don't know where else one might see such a congregation of vintage aircraft.

Great pic. Probably won’t be replicated this summer.

The bears will appreciate that....

Cats sleeping with dogs!!!!!!!

I have decided John is too stupid to own a boat.........

Off topic, but hell it's been almost a week.

Please ID the three aircraft in foreground. Hi-wing, single engine, multiple side windows, mid fuselage entry door, pointy nose. Turbine power?

Ive owned both. I’d be more concerned with layout and the transom. Lunds are riveted and do just fine on the great lakes. Living in the PNW, I had an Alumaweld and fished the open ocean quite a bit. Fishing seasons started to get cut short and my Alumaweld was a pig for anything but trolling. So I sold it as my needs changed. Now I own a Lund and its been great for lakes and big slow rivers like the Columbia and Snake. Its a lot easier to control using a bow mount.

Turbine de Havilland DHC-3 Otter. There’s a Cessna 206 in there as well.

Thank you very much. I was going to guess re powered Beaver. But the lines were too clean to be a conversion.

My knowledge of AC is about what one can gain perusing an old coffee table book. And a bit of Google-fu. Which by the way tells me those plane are about 60 years old, they only made 466 of them and you have three lined up there. Very, Very impressive.

They are conversions...

Thanks again. I was just doing a bit of research. on the Beaver, Otter, and Twin Otter.
interesting and impressive aircraft.

That is certainly a clean looking conversion. Is that supported by some remnant of DeHaviland Corp, or all aftermarket parts.

I'll guess at the conversion being all after market parts, but that's just a guess.
My experience with these aircraft is limited to touring Bush Alaska in them.
But I am looking at a piston out of a Beaver sitting on a shelf across from me right now that I've re-purposed as a bookend.
The Grumman Goose and Widgeon fall into that era and are also some what commonly seen being used for Bush Alaska transportation.

It is an aftermarket STC. DeHaviland was long gone when that came out. Though one could argue they are still around and to a degree would be correct. Looks like a Texas Turbine Conversion, but I am in no way an expert of Otters and Beavers. Great aircraft.

Simply awesome

And you may be right as I still don't own one...

These are the goto guys for de Havilland owners..

Not impressed with Kenmore Air's work. Look close at their own pictures of their structural work. all the stringer rivets are dished! Attention to detail!!!!!!! That is an easy thing to avoid.