Anybody got any more info on this?

Local story with National implications.

https://k2radio.com/wells-fargo-sues-cody-firm-gunwerks-claims-it-owes-2-8-million/

I don't see how you can get that far behind, unless you're crooked as bleep.....

LOL.

They owe us money.

It's not been fun.

Hope you come out on it, Burns

If they’ve been bleeding as long as the article states, doesn’t look good for getting paid, but I too hope you don’t get hit too bad.

Blew it all on TV shows?

If Gunwerks actually did sell collateral, I think a fraud was committed.

Too big too fast?

300+k in unpaid sales tax? Someone is in trouble! You can cheat creditors, banks etc, but cheat the .gov and you are screwed!

While it may have been fraudulent, someone screwing WF warms my heart. If ever there was a bunch of shy locks who should be relieved of a pound of flesh, its WF.

LOL.

Thanks.

Pretty well hedged due to who we were dealing with.

As a side note not sayin they didn't threatened suit 3 day back,

Made me LOL.

This news release explains much.

Side note: Have you explored Form 1 and solvent traps?

This for sure, regarding WF...........but almost certain to be fraud give the info in the article.

MM

Serious mismanagement. Or outright embezzlement.

I'm shocked. They have a phenomenal product line (their own custom stocks and actions) and the Revic scope is dynamite. Apparently they've been living too high on the hog. Any truth to the rumor that the Gunwerks owner also stiffed the owner of Wild West Guns back in the day?

Tarq,

I can’t disagree on the GW products line, never shot one, but the cost of their “Shooting Solution” is above most paygrades.

LR shooting, hunting, is a niche market, and those who know what they want and can wring out of a custom rig the same or better performance, aren’t buying a $10k-$14k rifle package.

I’m sorry to see any gun industry company go under, but, to the point, that possibly the owners have a history of financial problems, it’s probably best it happens now, when the major hit is being suffered by a huge bank, whom by the way, is no stranger to nefarious business dealings.

😎

Two sides to every story although the article paints a grim picture for GW future.

Somebody cooked the living chit outta those books.

They had our house loan years ago.

I noticed they don’t sell the special nightforce scope they used to have a couple years ago. I thought that was odd. Maybe nightforce stopped getting paid. I do really like the gunwerks stocks. I think they are innovative. The revic scopes are way too much money. The g7 rangefinder which used to be their unique thing. The Leica products have offered the same thing for years.

I always thought they should not have had nightforce just relabel a scope for them but instead should have had japan make their own specific scope they designed.

Yes, their stuff is pricey for sure and maybe overpriced, but I think it's also good stuff.

Too bad, but it happens. GW is broke and WF want's what they can recoup. It sounds like WF isn't the only one standing in line.

I’m glad I quit using their products when I did!!! This is very comical knowing what kind of guys run it!

Getting sued by WF is one thing - withholding taxes from the government will put them out of business.

Davidson bros. are a couple of clowns. As to the "two sides to every story", what story can you possible have for not paying your sales taxes? They are history, and the bros. are in deep doodoo I'd guess. Personal guaranties very likely on everything if dealing with Wells Fargo.

Wow nothin like a couple ‘tards to fail to recognize a sustainable scam when they see one.

I have a Dr client who paid HUGE $ for one of their “rifle systems” and is as happy as a clam.

Yeah, kinda reminds me of the gal that was running She Safari. That was a flash in the pan. One day she's got her a$$ and tits floating across the screen on every outdoor show that'll have, next thing ya know, she's gone.

The Davidson bros seem to have taken the same mis-direction if the story that's written is true.

I’m not familiar with this rumor, I worked for WWG for a decade. What’s the supposed story?

If you want to see the actual complaint (less exhibits), you can click on this link and go to post #64 for a pdf link. It appears on the surface that GW is indeed in serious trouble. It will be interesting to see if Wells confiscates it's collateral (equipment) and sells it off, or tries to operate the business. If they sell it off they will probably sue Davidson and Co for the balance due, and since Davidson has personal guaranties on the loans.............

https://www.snipershide.com/shootin...gunwerks-in-federal-court.7006271/page-2

Beave, I'm with you on WF not being an innocent bystander. I can quote you chapter and verse on some of their doings here in FL circa 2008.

Wells Fargo may not be the only one in line but they will be first, I am quite certain they are a secured creditor.

Some vendors will eventually find out the worth of a personal guarantee.

Not a long range hunter, have no clue was caused them to get to this point, but I hate to see us lose a gun company and a lot of vendors will be hurt if the bankruptcy moves forward.

The one thing I learned a long time ago is "Do not screw with the Tax Man." That is a no-win situation... As mentioned multiple times in the SH posts, I think they are in deep yogurt...

You may be right, but I bet the gov't will be absolutely first in line, since GW collected sales tax and did something with it other than forward it on to big brother. They don;t like that crap. WF will be next in line, and everyone else after that. Any other creditors will get pennies on the $$$, if anything at all after the first two lienholders get through with GW. All Davidson has to do is file personal bankruptcy to get out of the personal guaranty situation. If they file bankruptcy under thieir business, then personal guaranties still apply.

Mr. Raider,

I agree about the taxes.

It is surprising they went that long without paying sales tax. It would be interesting to see if they were collecting the tax and not paying it. Sales tax can be a pain in the ass because of different exemptions, shipping things out of state, manufacturing versus retail. I wonder if they got dinged in an audit and did not pay it or if they just quit paying because of lack of cash.

Hope all is well for you, tough times for many in the Permian.

Now doubt...They’ve been sued by the Federal government and Class Action law suits. They are still paying out hundreds of millions in restitution, fines and penalties.

Shylock operators on the Board of Directors. Still printing money even after being financially nailed to the cross several times.

😎

If you have WF for a mortgage, call and check.

They've been putting people in forbearance even if they didnt ask and are OTIF on payments.

..............Very interesting. Based on the article, looks like Aaron Davidson is in heap big duu-duu.

I have no other info on this, but on youtube there are two videos entitled "MOA" and MOA part 2 which I first saw quite awhile ago. These two videos compare custom rifles from Gun Werks vs production rifles from Browning in terms of manufacture, accuracy, philosophies, costs vs accuracy benefits and on down the line which I found interesting.

No doubt Gun Werks custom rifles are extremely well made, outstanding build quality in manufacture and the whole shaa-bang. Perhaps too good. If you are going to compete in the marketplace of manufacturing rifles that a higher percentage of shooters and hunters cannot either afford or if affordable choose not to pay such high prices, then you vastly limit your retail market customer base.....Weatherby produces MK5s but they also make Vanguards. Other rifle makers like Weatherby make their more expensive rifles while offering lesser expensive alternatives such as Browning.

I am guessing, but it looks like Gun Werks got way over-incumbered with equipment costs way too fast. while at the same time not catering to a wider market customer base by not offering lesser expensive alternatives and therefore sales went south from a medium to a large degree. Getting over in-cumbered in debt while having a philosophy of only making the best can lead to failure if not managed well......Guessing the a BK might be on the way for Gun Werks.

Thanks Mike. We will make it out here but it'll take a little time, just like the last few downturns we've been through. Things will settle out eventually. I used to be in the fuel business for about 22 years until I sold my interest a couple of years ago. When purchasing fuel at the refinery, you can either buy it tax free or taxes paid. If you buy tax free you have to file tax reports every month and pay up all at once for state and fed taxes. We always elected to pay our taxes at the rack rather than file reports. I guess we always wanted to know whether we were broke or not!

There was another post on that snipershide thread that a guy had some history on GW's reporting. They had been delinquent like 5 times since 2009, so paying taxes wasn't something they took very seriously I guess. That's a stupid way to conduct business that's for sure.

Depending on how WF is collateralized on their loans and if there are significant personal assets of the owners who signed personal gurantees they will probably come out ok on a 1st lien position as the primary creditor. Having worked in special credit and collections for various large regional banks collections are not always as straight forward as what a person would like and can be quite painful all the way around. Typically the banks that are taking equipment as collateral especially specialty equipment like in the gun business that equipment is appraised and then discounted to get the collateral value typically the value is not 1 for 1.

The downside to all of this of course is that in a liquidation situation banks will rarely receive even the discounted value because some specialty equipment will be lucky to get fifty cents on the dollar.

They should be sued, if for no other reason than the idiotic purposeful misspelling of the word "works."

Is one of these guys the redhead on some of their hunting shows?

Gunwerks?

If the time line from the article matches up they quit paying sales tax about the same time they’ve got the economic development grant from the State. Coincidences like that don’t happen unless your extremely stupid or extremely crooked

Got stiffed by a restaurant owner who had a couple different brand franchises. Only got me for a small amount, $12,000ish, since the landowner was paying for the bulk of the buildout. He was nailed for not paying his payroll tax, collected it though. I told him I was gonna sue his ass, and he laughed and said I'd have to wait til after he got out of jail.

Name was most likely chosen for the availability of the internet domain name. Many odd names are chosen for this reason.

It might be time to ask Kramer for Jackie Chiles’ number.

You are correct. Government is always first, then the banks.

All those hunts had to cost a pretty penny and you really have to hype systems like those to keep the $$ coming in!

A few years ago all of the gunshops and pawnshops around Idaho Falls had new GW rangefinders and scopes for sale on consignment. I found it odd and knew most of the shops so I asked around and they had all been consigned by the same person.

I knew the name and knew he worked at gunwerks because they screwed up a chamber job on a 7 lrm for me and he was one of the guys that jerked me around on the deal.

Seemed pretty obvious that the stuff was embezzled goods so I called Aaron Davidson and let him know. He was a little surprised because he said the guy was one of his brothers best friends but did say a lot of stuff was missing. I talked to his brother a few times and he really seemed shady so I wouldn't surprise me he has friends like that.

They were advertising for a director of marketing a few years back and advertising it at about 200k a year. I have an MBA in marketing and 14 years experience so my friend kept telling me to apply for it. I told my friend I'd had some experience with them and didn't think they were honest so I wasn't even going to bother looking into it. He thought I was crazy and kept telling me it was a dream job. I just told him I'm no longer going to waste my time trying to build a career with people I don't trust.

Bb

Just think how many critters died a horrible death while the longrange heros hoped for great video footage .

You did the right thing.

If you end up working for crooks it is likely that you'll go down with them or worse, that you'll be their scapegoat.

A lot of people cook the books, but not forwarding tax money that has been collected is a recipe for serious trouble and since it is a binary, either/or, thing, you can't just say "oops".

Get in line and hope there is something left after the Government and banks take theirs.

You know, that is the kind of post that really makes these forums worthwhile. Thanks for taking time out to share that.

WF and BOA have got be the largest scumbag bankers in the entire world.

They disgust me, knowing what I know firsthand. They got money poured down their throats in 2008, destroyed peoples' lives, stole their homes, refused workout agreements and loan restructurings, and sold the homes for profit after the housing market recovered, while .gov allowed them to write off huge chunks of debt and expenses they didn't actually have, and deprecate the value of the properties for their balance sheets.

I can walk 3 doors down from my house and stand in front of a home on a lake where they did exactly that to a single Mom with 2 kids. I know her personally. She is a friend of mine. That house is now worth $450-500K.

Phugkers.

Official Statement From Gunwerks CEO Regarding Wells Fargo Litigation

Cody, WY – May 22, 2020

The reports of Gunwerks’ demise are completely false. In fact, we’re crushing it! So far, 2020 has set records for sales performance and profitability, and it only gets better from here!

This week’s report of Wells Fargo filing a lawsuit has gotten a lot of attention. The bottom line is, the litigation has been settled, the entirety of our Wells Fargo operating loan has been paid off, and it is business as usual for Gunwerks.

The Wells Fargo narrative of Gunwerks’ financial distress was untrue. The dispute was never about Gunwerks’ financial condition or late payments, but about a difference of opinion on asset valuation. Within days of filing the suit, it has been settled and the case will be dismissed immediately.

Most of the stories circulating around the social media landscape are just wrong! Here are two good examples: In Wells Fargo’s narrative complaint filed in federal district court, they assert that Gunwerks was delinquent on sales tax payments. This is not true now and has never been true (Check here for a list of current delinquents in WY). They also allege that Gunwerks is late paying vendors. Again, this is untrue. We pride ourselves in dealing fairly with our vendors.

Unfortunately, despite our numerous good faith attempts to resolve the issues with Wells Fargo, the bank chose to file a lawsuit, which has now been settled. Fortunately, we had the resources to pay off the credit line within two business days of Wells Fargo filing suit. Our customers have really supported us this year with record sales. We’re on track to have our best performing year on record.

In 2020 Gunwerks will be announcing several new and innovative products that have been in development the past several years. Keep an eye out for an entirely new, next-gen rifle system engineered from the ground up, at least three more Skunkwerks projects, and new optics products and ballistic solutions in the Revic lineup.

The damage to Gunwerks’ reputation from Wells Fargo’s lawsuit will take quite a while to overcome, but with our team and a foundation of innovation and product quality, we see this as a minor incident. We’ve never been more excited about our business!

Sincerely,

Aaron Davidson, CEO Gunwerks

I have Gunwerks rifle and it is a great shooter. I enjoyed watching their shows and visiting them in Dallas. Always thought they were a little high priced and couldn't imagine them selling enough rifles to coverall the advertising and their high profile position in the shooting industry.

Expect a check any day now.

That's going to be a big fugging mess.

If what Davidson said is true, I'd be sueing the fuqk out of Wells Fargo for slander.

John,

Have you gotten a check?

Let's here from John Burns on this. The two stories are completely contradictory.

No one can miss a year of withholding taxes without consequences.

Exactly what I was thinking.

At least the part where I paid Wells Fargo nearly 3m bucks today is true!

It's easy to verify that we are not delinquent on sales tax.

Do we have any vendors claiming delinquent payments?

Read my statement again.

Over/under on 20 pages?

https://www.internationalsportsman....ells-fargo-gunwerks-lawsuit-story-wrong/

You sound crabby. I'd be crabby too if I was losing my business.

I kid, i kid. I have no idea what Gunwerks is. I wish you years of success.

Hello Aaron, just wanted to stop by and say that you were an arrogant little asshat when I met you face to face at SCI (could've been DSC) a few years ago. Hopefully you've changed you tune. Adios Amigo.

I'd sue the sheit out of somebody if I were you.

Sounds worse, now.

The notion that WF paid lawyers $400 per hour to draft and file a lawsuit when according to Mr. Davidson, GW was willing to pay all along is laughable. WF was forced to sue because they had no choice. You need to come clean Mr. Davidson.

I would say having cash on hand to pay that debt on demand is a very strong play...... I personally would give Gunwerks the benefit of a doubt.... I like small business.
Wells Fargo.... can GF..themselves.... proven shysters.

I hope Burns is made whole....

They didn't have it on hand. They borrowed and then paid off WF.

And you know this how?

Ok you stupid fugg..... I will ask again, in a different way, who would loan Gunwerks several million knowing they are in financial straights? A clue.... nobody.... you talking out your ass and hurting a small business man is bullshit... fuggin clown

I have had conversations with both Aaron and Mike at SCI 2-3 times. I found Mike to be easier to talk with but Aaron seemed to always be the center of the scrum. I'd not put a lot of meaning into a brief conversation with anyone circled with a bunch of guys asking the same redundant question over and over again.

I found Craig Boddington pretty arrogant as well until I had lunch with him.

I certainly can't blame anyone for forming an opinion of someone after a brief meeting but have found that sometimes these opinions are not a true picture of the person.

Not going to own one of these ( systems ) but wish any small business GOOD LUCK

No business of their size has that kind of cash on hand, your quarterly taxes prevent that from happening . That being said I have no idea of their business structing . if the are an " S" corp "C' corp maybe an LLC. or even a sole proprietorship .

Theirs lots of unanswered questions, but like others have said Wells Fargo are bottom feeds of the lending market , and it sounds like a bloon payment was either missed or comming up and the lack of funds available were not satisfactory to cover the total debt, so they got froggy trying to leapfrog the federal government.

The pettiness and envy of some people astounds me..... maybe some should put their money where their mouth is and start a small business.... I bet many of the mouthy fuggers here would fail in a few months..... fuggin clowns....

I hope all honest hard working small business succeed... spectacularly......

Explain.....

S corp, LLC is a pass through...... you make no sense

At structuring of a company simply controls how you are taxed and who is responsible for the debt, these guys didn't borrow 3 million without the means to pay it back, no ones going to loan that kind of money on a LLC without personal loan guarantees, I'm guessing they are an S corp and all of the earnings are taxed at the personal level with most of their spending is company related, as in trucks, hunts written off as testing and many more, every thing a smart man would do to limit taxable income.

Please excuse my spelling and grammatical error as my glasses in my turkey vest and I can't see sh~t !

Hey dennisinaz. Tell everyone about your buddies awesome experience. 🤣🤣🤣. How long did it take to get his money back. Three months??? But they can scrounge up 3 million in two days?

No sense in guessing...

You are excused ... I thought maybe you were drunk....

I am still failing to grasp how an LLC or S corp could not have cash on hand due to tax structure?

I have an S corp and tax's don't dictate to me how much cash reserves I have......

And you have both sides of the story?

Backs up Davidsons story.....

Fuggin ankles biters will not be deterred.....

Nope just waiting for sun to come up. They have a number of CNC milling machines, I don't know the number they have , but they are not cheap, neither is software, check on a seat of solid works , WF didn't fill suit for no reason, Im guessing Gunwerks wanted to restructure their loans as interest rates have fallen a bunch in the last couple of years, and Gun werks wanted to take advantage of that, myself I believe both sides were playing chicken, who won I don't know . but I can tell you, WF lost.

For the record I have no skin in this game and have never met Davidson. I simply feel somebody needs to stand up for the small business man..... too many buy into the class envy hate corporations leftist narrative.....

Bunch of fuggin wannabe's..... shameful

How they even came close to start a bidness selling $10,000 rifles is beyond me... and to think there’s dumbfucks here trying to peddle used ones is even more dumb. And then there’s arrons $3500 scopes ... 😂😂😂🖕🏿🤭😘

I support them , I own a small tool shop, and the banks are your enemies, for me it was the only place I could get the money, I borrowed 20 grand and had to put my house up for guaranteed pay back , [bleep] them !

No sh~t , you can put a 6.5 X 20 Leuopold on a model 77, add a timney trigger and you will have a fine long range rifle.

If you have ever been elk hunting and a guy shows up with a sheep tag .........well you know how it goes from there..........

This.

Well, let’s hear it. How ‘not fun’ has it been?

How much are you currently ‘owed’?

Different strokes for different folks but I would imagine there's a number if different ways one could achieve the same results for a fraction of the cost. Hard to imagine someone selling $10,000 rifles having any financial problems. He SHOULD have that kind of cash reserves with the kind of profit turned on each rifle. WF are scumbags however so I doubt they are complete victims here.

Is it any crazier than paying $400 for a cooler with a particular name on it’s side?

I'm not sure who would spend that kind of money on a Gunwerks rifle? ? ? I shoot 1000 yard BR and I can build a very competitive 1000 yard light gun for a third of what a Gunwerks rifle costs.

Lots of older folks have amassed a good deal of money in their life and 10k is nothing for a rifle or any item.

https://www.gunwerks.com/blog/press...g-wells-fargo-litigation-225#scrollTop=0

http://www.codyenterprise.com/news/local/article_79f49f12-9c5c-11ea-86fe-279650987e06.html

Gunwerks media statement dated May 22 said they paid everything off and its full speed ahead. So someone is either lying or exaggerated the financial problems.

this is the type of mentality......or lack of it I don't understand.....you needed money....they where the only place that you could get it....


the basturds actually wanted some collateral and you say fugg them...….you should probably be thankful…..you now own a small tool shop...bob

The finale invoice has not been sent for a project that has drawn on for years.



For what?

Nobody likes Wells Fargo but if they filed suit in Fed Court for nearly 3 million and got paid nearly 3 million 2 days later it's hard to see what would be the claim in a counter suit.




Not quite ready for the full disclosure as there is still a slight chance things can be worked out.

Similar, but a $400 cooler is more within the means of most that make poor financial decisions.

Within our means perhaps.

Personally would rather boast (if I did) about how ‘inexpensive’ my purchase prices were.

There are folks that like to brag about how much they paid, the other way. Money-no-object people.

I put up a house valued well over 100 grand that I owned free and clear to borrow 20 grand, a little more than "some collateral " , yes f~ck them !

It sounds like your house was the only thing you owned that could be used at collateral, it doesn't matter if it was worth $500k when it's your only possession to use as collateral.

You could've gotten an unsecured business loan but your interest rate would've been a lot higher, as it should be on a high risk loan.

You could've always gotten a loan from a private investor if you hate banks so much.

Would you loan someone $20k with zero mechanism to recoup your money if they stopped paying?

A lot of people have pointed out that Wells Fargo isn't to be trusted and I think that's a critical point. I believe Wells Fargo is based in San Francisco. I have an old college acquaintance that is in upper management at Wells Fargo. He is on the extreme left politically and being in San Fransisco its likely a lot of his coworkers are too.

Under the Obama administration many banks went after gun manufacturers and used what I would call unethical business practices to make things difficult for gun related businesses. I can't help but wonder if some of that mentality is still at work.

I worked on a project for Wells Fargo while in MBA school. They wanted some ideas on how they could attract more business. I had a reputation as a creative problem solver with out of the box ideas and because that's what they said they were looking for my professor recommend me for the project.

After looking into it and estimating the conversion cost of recruiting new customers I came to a conclusion that was not well received by Wells Fargo. I determined they would be much better off to change some business practices in an attempt to keep current customers than to try to recruit new ones. They were loosing a lot of customers because of the poor way they treated them. I looked through a lot of data and read hundreds of reviews. After my experience with them I determined that I will never do business with Wells Fargo.

I had a poor experience with gunwerks on a chambering job and wasn't treated well by a couple of people there. However, when it became fairly obvious to me that someone may be embezzling from them I didn't hesitate to make a call. I was obviously bringing the kind of news no business owner is happy to hear but Aaron Davidson took my call himself and treated me with respect.

It's obvious that this thing is more complicated and involved than it looks on the surface. Time will tell us what really happened here. I won't do business with Wells Fargo and I'm not in the premium turn key market segment that Gunwerks is positioned for either. If Wells Fargo really made untrue statements in their filing I hope they pay for it.

Bb

no he got fugged straight up......I see that now...they should have kissed his ass....given him money out of the goodness of their heart.
hes probably a good ole boy whose word is his bond...and he dosent suffer fools...bla bla bla…..bob

I wish them well. I love small businesses to succeed.

I'm responding to the whole thread, just read it



If a business was short on money, and morals, while being long on
inventory and balls...."Embezzled" goods, sold for cash on consignment,
would be a hugely profitable venture.
Did they do that? No way to know. Hope not, I like to
give people the benefit of a doubt.
Was anyone fired and/or charged?



Everyone is down on WF. Never delt with them, don't
have any around here.
I trust no big business, especially fianiancial and insurance companies.
There is one person in this world who wants the best for me. Me.
Many will be honest, many will not.

If you borrow money, it's on you to understand the terms and
conditions. The bank is required to do the Truth in Lending thing.
But it's on you.

Signing our mortgage terrified me.
I knew I was on the hook for a lot, and that the lender was not my friend.
(Even though the writer was my cousin. The only comforting part)

WF made a deal.
It wasn't followed.
When it was, things worked out.
Don't let prejudice against one party affect your judgement.

I do believe the person I suspected of embezzlement from them was let go soon after I reported my suspicion. I can also say that based on Aaron's response when I reported it he was blindsided by it.

I wasn't really accurate in my first comment about the timeline. This happened more than just a few years ago. It was probably something more around 6-7 years ago and before they seemed to be expanding as a fast as they have the last few years. If Aaron was guilty of anything at that time in my opinion it was not having great inventory control measures in place.

Embezzlement happens to many small businesses and it's often committed by a family friend or person of trust. I'm not their #1 fan but wouldn't be fair to suggest what I said was something much more nefarious than I thought it was. I really believe it was a rogue employee.

I also found a kid in Blackfoot that was selling lots of Gunwerks brass and berger bullets along with "surplus powders". He sold a bullet puller he said he had patented too. I asked him were he got all the ammo components and he said it came as loaded ammo from the same guy that was consigning the rangefinders and scopes. He was buying it cheap from him and pulling it down. Not a plan that would seem to have come from the top as it probably netted pennies on the dollar.

Bb

Never meant to suggest anything about what you had to say.
Just my thoughts on a maybe...
Good to think it wasn't the case.

It all is sounding like a screw up. That will be resolved.
Their product isn't my cup if tea in any way other than
being accurate. So I don't really GAS.

I do hope whatever the deal involving John is resolved.
He has showed a bit of class not using this opportunity to
air the dirt, and get sycophants to pile on,

And after a couple of years payments , the value of my home went up my debt went down , yet I was still on hand to lose over a 100 grand on a debt of less than 10 grand , by the third year of the 5 year note I had paid them in full. I owed them nothing Zero , yet because of a little clause on one of the dozens of pages of the loan guarantee, they still held my home until the full 60 month term of the loan was up , a full two years after being paid in full. Their answer to this was that I could always borrow more money from them, and they knew that my extra effort to pay them early, simply prevented me from shopping for a better bank. This was National City bank, who not surprisingly is now bankrupt and out of business, once again F~ck them !

"I determined they would be much better off to change some business practices in an attempt to keep current customers than to try to recruit new ones. They were loosing a lot of customers because of the poor way they treated them."

You had it figured out, too bad they didn't listen.

I've owned several businesses myself. Not one time did someone hog-tie me, weld a pen in my hand, and make me sign loan documents. If I didn't know what was in there completely before signing it was my fault. Don't like the terms, borrow someone else's money.

I getta' kick outta' John Squirms starting this Thread on at least (3) Sites.

Bless her heart.

LAUGHING!...................

Nor me, I was younger and dumber , I've never made that mistake again, but to them, it wasn't an error, it was a business plan, a bad one at that. Their crooked ways ended their business, I learned from it , I learned that bankers are not there to help you, but to help themselves, at any cost .

I have a friend with a Revic scope. He says its an amazing piece of kit and worth every cent. As far as their rifles, you can't fault GW if they've found there's alot of guys who'll pay $10,000 for a rifle they could have for $2500.00.

Still waiting for John Burns to weigh in. He started this thread. John? John?

Did I understand this wrong or did John say they owed him money and then later say he hadn't invoice them yet?

Bb

Its hard to fathom the lows that we humans go to when we start chewing up our own ! Its like a big pile on when someone is down... like a pack of dogs snarling and killing anouther of the pack when it is down and or wounded.
I dont personally know Aron, but I have met him at the shows and ordered a rifle from him. It was delivered and Im very happy with it.. The following things I do know..

Wells Fargo is the worst bank that I have ever had dealings with. They have done things to my companys that is awfull. I bucked up and paid off a bunch of notes when they called them and it cost me tons of money because of the things I had to sell off to meet the call. I was not behind on any loan payments whatsoever.. I lost more money on that deal than Aron just payed off. I did it on my own without involving anyone else. I dont know how Aron paid of Wells, and it is none of my business and it is none of yours either. Owning a small business is very challenging and is a rough road to hoe and I admire all who succeed in doing so. Wells Fargo is the worst bank that I know of.

John Burns He is piling on and causing drama for Gunwerks either because they are competition to him or jealous of Gunwerks.. He dang sure backpedeled when he had to put up or shut up O they havent payed me but also then saying that he hadnt sent a final bill yet.. Probably worried about the lawsuit he could get served on him for defamation ? Lost respect for him today..
Good luck to Gunwerks on working this all out..

Treat others as you would like to be treated..
Billy

John, I've always enjoyed your posts.
But something tells me if there is/was 411 on the situation, you'd likely be more in the know than anyone here - leaving me to surmise you're simply stirring the szchit pot.

Very true. WF screwed a large number of people with false accounts and charges.

Very true Scott. That's typical Burns though. Most of the time his mockingbird mouth overloads his whippoorwil asss.

I don't have a dog in this fight, but am wondering if this has been resolved. Aaron Davidson posted in another thread, "Delinquent vendor payments: fake news"

What's the scoop?

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbt...4898441/gunwerks-in-trouble#Post14898441

IMO John Burns is a D-Bag for making those statements and not backing it up.

With absolutely zero deference to GW or JB, only a small business owner can truly comprehend the crapulence endured while dealing with Wells Fargo.

Hope everyone that turns in an invoice gets paid.

Why can't firearm builders in Cody, WY just get along?

Jerry is trying to get leverage on Newman. He wants paid.

Newman or Ron Swanson?

I responded several posts above.



Scott,

I knew nothing more about this situation between WF and Gunwerks than was in the article and nobody in town had any inclination there was a pending suit.

Gunwerks threatened to sue us a week ago and any suit by a 3rd party concerning appointment of receivership directly affects our contract.

Wells Fargo like most big banks has anti 2A/anti hunt tendencies so the story truly does have National implications.

In the interest of fairness I also was the first one to post Arron's complete statement in this thread.




Might want to reread this thread.



Must be something in the water.

Arron and I had been getting along pretty well and we were planning to expand the Wyoming Governor Match to include a Precision Rifle Match in addition to the 3 Gun Match.


Finale invoice for project is still pending so Gunwerks is not delinquent.

Who made the original post.............Asking for a friend

You told us they "owe us money" and "its not been fun" and then you tell us they haven't even been invoiced yet? What in hell is going on Mr. Burns. Time for you to come clean.

Yep, and the fuqker told me to go re-read the thread.

You also posted the above, all the while knowing you were a vendor to GW and apparently knew the owner well. Looks like you were just trying to stir up a controversy where there wasn't one.

Same guy that posted same thing on 3 or 4 hunting/shooting forums?? Again asking for a friend.........

Burns is such a drama queen, Kanye West and Kim Kardashian bought a place near Cody, just to keep up...

If I was Gunwerks JB would be fuqked when he finally got that final invoice sent. What kind of stupid mf'er slanders someone before he gets his money? What a fuqktard.

The project is not finalized and they threatened to sue us a week ago.

Exactly quote where I slandered anyone.


There was plenty of controversy.

I bought a Gunwerks RevX in 7mm RM, it did not cost $10K, shoots good. I never talked to Aaron Davidson but I did talk to Mike Davidson on the phone a couple of times. Real professional and friendly, gave me some load info and I wasn't yet a customer of his, just seemed like he wanted to help a fellow shooter and hunter out. I hope they make out OK.

someone is going to a llama to pack that gun around on the hunt.

Ron Swanson can carry it.

-Jake

"Owes me money......" on invoices that haven't even been sent yet.........LMAO.

Get the facts, then decide.

https://www.internationalsportsman....ells-fargo-gunwerks-lawsuit-story-wrong/

https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/threads/so-disappointing.7006936/

Man, you don't understand debt and how it works. If the bank forecloses on your house and they end up selling it, they can only keep what they are owed. And anyone that signs a loan without reading it and understanding it is making a huge mistake.

I have a family member that back in the housing boom was riding high on the hog. Owned god knows how many houses, 3 cabins on lakes, 8 boats, Harleys, diesel trucks, Florida Keys every other month at least. The the tax man came and the housing market crashed. He lives in a trailer house from the 70's and drives an old 2wd Chevy with 300k+ miles on iT The market crashed in what 08 and hes still paying that stuff back. Never did jail time though

Maybe this has been posted, didn't read all the quibbling.

Sounds like GW is in a good spot.

https://youtu.be/7iK7rEOyrZU