Thought I'd put it out here.

Heard I should focus on 1340 or 1440, 2" spindle bore, easily set to cut common tpi pitches, precision... Might consider a starter unit as my dream machine is outa sight. Would make best sense for DT-5 in the long run maybe. Advice, leads, piss'n match, PMs, or insults welcome.


Sven (inside joke)

If I were in the market for a new lathe (which I got a new one about 2 years ago) I would look at the PM1440 or anything made in Twain vs China. Dollar for dollar the Grizzle lathe has a lot of features that most want. The trouble with most lathe's produced today is that they do not turn at a slow enough RPM for me.
Might look at old iron vs new. I have an old Lebond that I started with but as I am getting close to retirement age, decided to buy myself a brand new lathe. Dealer here was going out of business so I bought a new Wilton 1440 from him. It was still in the cerate. I guess if I could or would change one thing about it, I would have set it up with a VFD.

No real need for a 2" spindle bore, 1.5 or so is plenty for most things. Make sure that the headstock length is not too long if you intend to chamber barrels thru the headstock. This will limit you on how short of a barrel you can do.

Don't shy away from a 3-phase power machine, either. Add a VFD (variable frequency drive) and have all the RPM adjustability you could ask for. VFDs can be had relatively cheap, and input/output configurations. All of my VFDs came from Automation Direct.

Don't give up on the older machines, there are some really great older machines that are in great shape and will do a lot of good work for short money. I have and old Sheldon 12 x 36 that is a real workhorse. With a little cleaning up it works great and has a 1 3/8" spindle bore, which works fine for most gun work. The old Sheldons, as well as the Monarch, the Atlas and Craftsman machines, South Bend Heavy 10, among others all will hold very good tolerances and you can get into most of them from $1500-$2500 in good shape and with some tooling. My Sheldon will hold .0005 on the four jaw and some of the others I mentioned will also with a bit of work...

Watch for damage to the ways and at the very least be sure to see it run before plunking down your money. Have them run it through its paces- travel left and right, tumbler engagement and check for vibration, motor forward and reverse, travel on the cross slide and controls on the cross slide. . make sure to get quick change threading gear box on any machine you even consider. You'll thank me later.

Tooling is going to be the big expense, so try to find a lathe that has lots of tooling that goes with it. Especially a steady rest and follow rest that are specific to that machine if you can. My Sheldon didn't come with a steady rest and the only one I could find I had to fabricate a base for it to fit my machine as closely as I could. The Tail stock it came with is excellent and accurate as the headstock. Also, look for Quick change tool heads that fit your machine. Most 12" machines will take A or B size...


Shipping is going to be outrageous so find one close by. Craigslist, Facebook Marketplace, and other outlets like that are a good bet for decent prices and local sales IMO... take along a friend who knows machines to catch any issues you may not recognize...

Thanks guys.

Yes on PM, and I would love to VFD one and Taiwan too. My available travel radius is pretty limited for looking for used machines. Surely the deals for great used machines with tooling come up, but, I'll not be holding my breath. BXA is what I am going for. Initially going to tool up for the muzzle end. The rest (pun) will have to come in time...


The biggest Grizzly GS lathe G824 requires gear change between common threads 16, 24, and 28. Seems that would piss me off when I could have bought a PM and been GTG. The PM1440 GS, specifically marketed as a gunsmithing lathe is pretty feature rich for the price (China). Looking for more owners/users to discuss with. The higher precision 1440GT (Taiwan) has me drooling but I'd be in it another bench lathe on top of the 1440GS by the time I go it even chucked/DRO'd/VFD'd/SOB!

I've heard far too many complaints about Grizzly tools- especially their machine tools - to take a chance on them. Their QC is absolute crap and customer service after the sale from experienced machinists I know is rated very low. The PM is just a few steps above the Grizzly in the reviews I have read about them. I have a couple Grizzly tools I bought at garage sales and other places and while they have lots of cast iron in them, the assembly, fit, and finish is questionable and adjustments are horrible- especially on the 6 x 48 Sander 9" disc combo I have...

Check on shipping quotes to your area on LTL carriers and see if it would be worthwhile to have a used machine shipped if you can find the right deal. Much better chance of finding one with tooling . For the right deal it would be worth driving quite a distance to pick up with a trailer and bring home. A really nice South Bend Heavy 10 or a Craftsman Model 12 IIRC, which is basically the same machine. Same as the smaller Atlas and Craftsman machines are basically the same machines. Parts are still available for almost all of these more common machines also, new and used.

Once you have a good lathe, you'll be looking for all kinds of projects to do with it. I've made a bunch of parts on mine for my hot rod- bushings, etc... and whatever I can find to get some practice...

what ever machine you get just make sure to get a lot of tooling to go with it.

It will be used for sure.

Brother got a good deal on a 16" south Bend Quick Change. 1956 ish. With 2 extra gears, it will cut most metric threads. Only 1.3/8" dia. Also depends on your skill level.

Hopefully they'll throw in a 12" - no screw that - an 15" Starrett Master level too. Waiting, waiting, waiting.

I would avoid Grizzly and Chinese imports. Be patient and watch for a deal on a quality used machine with comprehensive tooling package. No matter what size spindle bore you get you will appreciate bigger.

For $2,000 I bought my Logan 12" x 35" lathe and Index knee mill with boxes of tooling.

When?

It may shock but I rather, as is my preference for poon, have a fresh precision Asian model than a scarred up old hag. There's darn few old gems on the market and lots of worn out old gash. But, I welcomed all so be it. Cheerios.


Copper airlines! Nice.

Bought the lathe and mill in 2013.

Have had weeks of young Asian poon and, while it was marvelous at the time, don't prefer it to that of other countries. Machinery is quite a different story. Though I own a few machines of Taiwan origin (2 drill presses, 2 bandsaws) the American-made machines are noticeably superior in quality. Chinese machinery is vastly inferior, though they do quite well with their higher end electronics.

Finding old gems has virtually always required some serious and dedicated effort and time. Almost anything of real value is like that. If you don't mind second rate, that can be had much easier. But don't be fooled by a fresh coat of cheap paint.

Pal, You scored...beauty.
As an amateur, I didn't buy wisely. I mostly bought because it came out to a buck a pound with tooling, and it was close to home. I went with a well seasoned pre WW2 South Bend 13x60. A good'un in it's day I guess, but it had a little wear here, and a little wear there...constantly playing with gibs and Acme nuts etc etc...trying to tighten her up. One day an old old machinist dropped by and I told him my tale of woe. He worked in SoCal in a bid/production shop for years down there. He said they literally worked those old machines to death, often 2 shifts a day, super heavy slow cuts with HSS tools, the cuts so heavy and the swarf so thick they fed it directly off the tool into a scrap barrel. He said I should have waited until a tool room lathe came along and paid the price..he was right.

I've seen lots of older restored machines that look absolutely beautiful but I always wonder if they hold tolerances. Did they do a run out test and replace bearings in the head stock if necessary, along with any chipped gear sets, tumbler controls, and feed rods. If they did, you will have a basically new machine that was built when people took pride in building these things. Learning how to maintain them is where you will really get the best use out of them. I'm still learning and had to make and replace bushings in the threading gear box and a couple other small items to get my machine to work as smooth as I wanted, but it was built in the 40's so I expected a bit of work was needed.

Almost all of the parts you need for repairing and/or rebuilding these older machines are still available , not so sure about that situation on the Asian machines a few years down the road ... I agree with what was said above- a good tool room or prototype lathe and mill are going to be your best bet as they don't see the day in, day out work load of the industrial machines..

New machines are nice too, I've looked at a lot of them. But I can buy an awful lot of tooling for what they want for a good new machine bare.... and the tooling is what does the work... spend the extra money on good indicators... and a machinist level to help set your machine up properly...

Bob

Not all are created equal, nor all paint cheap. If'n I really pushed my search distance envelope, due to work schedule realities, I'm looking at Seattle, Portland, Boise, Winnemuca (lol), SLC, Denver, Bismarck? So, I suppose keeping an open mind, not a strong point, more of a goal.


As an aside.

Starrett's story some may find interesting.

Copy, paste goes to a pdf download. Give up trying to offer it otherwise. Ol' Laroy got'r done.

http://origin-www.starrett.com/docs/default-source/other-downloadable-resources/the-starrett-story-(1216).pdf?sfvrsn=2

Starrett is among the best for supplying precision measuring instruments. I have many of theirs, and the only one with which I am disappointed is a newer dial caliper, which has skipped a tooth and so zero reads one quadrant CW. Also among the best for bimetal bandsaw blades.

Several years ago now I bought 14 1/2 South Bend. Made May 1945. The spindle still runs with no run out. It will do anything I am capable of setting up and doing. I also bought 1961 bridge port same thing it is as accurate as I am capable of. Both these machines where tool room machines so they didn’t see a production environment.. just keep looking they are out there.

I have a good set of Starret micrometers I inherited from my FIL, among a bunch of other tools he gave me a bunch of years ago when he retired from being a toolroom machinist. I've picked up a few more, but my hobby status keeps me content with slightly more affordable brands these days....

Check out craigslist, ebay, and Facebook marketplace for Seattle and Portland at the least. I live just out of Portland and there are usually tons of machine tools available here at different times for fairly reasonable prices. Seattle even more so with the Aerospace industry up there and lots of hobbyists. Can't help you with the other places.....

Those sound like fine machines. Imagine what they would cost new nowadays! Aerospace is right - to the Moon.


Got some American iron today. Bless my UPS guy, he thought it was more bullets!

MtnBoome, I understand old versus new. I was lucky and got a great old lathe.

Instead of an old Bridgeport, I bought a Grizzly G0796........it does the job, and has digital readouts.

Was given a nice surface grinder that only cost me a Rotary converter.....sometimes you get Lucky!

Right-on.

Just woke up. Had a dream I got mixed up with two young single chicks. There was fishing for big trout, bikinis, guns, to top it off I found a free stash of Starrett measurement tools! Woke up happy!

Did they drive a Jeep?

Of course!

Don’t think this one is for sale.

Thats a nice looking old lathe. What brand?

1943 Springfield 16" x 56" Gear Head Lathe

My neighbor’s.

Years ago, I started on an old Sebaston in my company's shop.They had South Bend and I bought a big Leblond for them for $12K. We made sabots for tank killer rounds on it. They sold everything when they closed down and I missed a lot including 3 Bridgeport mills with all the tooling that went cheap.I ended up a small Jet, 36" bed 1/1/2" spindle for $300, that has about .002 run out an slop in the cross feed. . It's good enough to fix things here on my small farm an d I have been able to make a few expander plugs for Lees dies for my old 38-40 and 38-55 that shoot over sized cast

I have a Monarch 10EE and a Clausing 6913 in 14X48. The Monarch is wonderful but not easily adapted to barrel work. The Clausing is a variable speed machine. I have a couple or 5 friends that have Heavy 10 Southbends. I run from them. Yeah I know that a lot of folks make them work, but not me. I have used a couple Grizzlies and they really impressed me. If I had one I would install a VFD for better control of the spindle speed. Problem with them is the D1-5 AND D1-6 chucks. Way too big and heavy! Yeah, thirty years ago I was into weight lifting, but no more.

I am green with envy.

I have a number of Grizzly machines and tools.Zero complaints from me. Shipping was really slow recently...

My gunsmith lathe is a Nardini 1440. If I were buying a new one I would look hard at the South Bend 1440 or Kent

South Bend is now a Grizzly brand. I would pass on Grizzly machines, as I have been disappointed in the two I have owned.

I would stay away from the Craftsman type lathe or any of the smaller lathes that do not have a V grove on the bed. I have seen too many of the ones that do not have V groves have trouble keeping the tail stock and saddle in perfect alignment.

The Taiwanese lathes are pretty dang nice. Anything with a Grizzly banner is now Chinese.

New, tight machines are nice, but you’ll learn a whole lot more on one that’s been around.

I’m speaking of lathes...........

I had a Clausing 5913 in 2002 that had been Boeing.
I chamered some rifles.

I had an Atlas 12x36.
I chambered a few rifles with it.

I had a Grizzly mini lathe and chambered a few pistols with it.

In 2009 I ordered a new PM1236 Precision Matthews with DRO. I have used it nearly every day for 12 years.

My brother hates foreign stuff, but he has had a Jet 13x40 for 20 years and cannot find anything wrong with it.

The guy at Applied Science is way smarter than me at technical stuff, and he has a Griz gunsmithing lathe for science.
https://www.youtube.com/c/AppliedScience/videos

I believe in imported lathes and old American mills.... follow the money.

Hey hey... A few things.


Mr Lambert, the other day I had the pleasure and entertainment of coming across a Practical Machinst thread in which you thoroughly handed a non-smithing machinist prick his internet ass during a classic debate between the through the headstock vs between centers schools. I am still grinning.


Out of hundreds of used lathe ads I have seen exactly one with "lots" of tooling. A broken lathe, and chinky tools and a dubious story. From what I have seen you are damned lucky to get a proper steady rest with a good used lathe.


Some fantastic machines, built to last, are out there, but, damned few meet my criteria which has been more narrowly defined lately. Frankly I don't want 7.5 hp, I will not take a 25" wide headstock or 1.25" spindle bore. I do really like some of those 15/16/18x50/60 machines, but, they are simply not what I need. Goodness I don't want to be lugging around a 15" chuck either!

While it might make sense to jump in at $2500 and see if I even like turning, LOL, I am probably going all in. Just about to make the plunge, another week or two I should be there. Gulp. LOL

Appreciate all the great input on this. Don't get me wrong, I too think it'd be great to get $10000 worth of tooling thrown in cause I'm so nice, but, I ain't holding my breath.

Here is one in Spokane with quite a bit of tooling...

https://spokane.craigslist.org/tls/d/spokane-jet-1240-py-lathe-with-tooling/7257024691.html

Those are tools, true. But that is not what he needs...holding tools, chucks, steady rest, cutting tools, boring tools, threading tools, centers, sleeves, taper tooling, adapters, chucking reamers, drills, tool post grinder, on and on...lathe/turning tools as opposed to machinists personal tools.

I'm aware of that, but measuring tools are extremely helpful and expensive to procure as you go. Also, the ad says he has many other tools and some are shown on the pics. It would be worth an ask to see what was available and to see if he had some Aloris style tool holders to go with his cutters and boring bars, among other things.... all part of the negotiations, IMO....

LOL, that's the ad! That somewhat oddball lathe has a busted gear, yes they'd be good enough tools to have, and then the story... I went as far as looking into forklift rentals in Spokane. LOL Fuuck that.

Somehow, he didn't feel it was important to include that in the ad huh? Typical of craigslist bullshit.....

When I was shopping for a lathe, I had plenty of time so just casually kept my eye out and found one just a few miles from my house for very cheap money because the guy was in poor shape and his family wanted his tools gone before he passed. I think he inherited the lathe from a buddy who had already passed and he hadn't even used it ....

Patience is everything when you don't have a lot of money and you want a particular tool.... seems like when these do come up , they come up in batches all at once...
There is a place in Portland that rehabs older lathes and mills and sells them and has an excellent reputation but for the life of me I can't remember their name right now.....

Good luck with your search...

On the other hand, the used mill is up. I drilled three holes and changed to an end mil and hogged out a slot! Yippee! New main panel in the garage-shop.

Here are some narrow aluminum shelves I made to store the QC tool holders for the lathe. Bent 3/16" aluminum to about 95 degree angle. Keeps the holders handy behind the tailstock end of the lathe, so I don't have to reach over any spinning machinery.



2nd photo shows the parts I made for apron stop and long travel dial indicator. Made the holder from a block of steel I had (which is starting to rust); the dial indicator holder from some stainless rod, and its clamp from aluminum bar. The apron stop has a pencil compass welded to one end. I also use that for laying out large diameter cutouts to install bow thrusters in fiberglass hulls.

If you really would be satisfied with a Jet, why not make this guy an offer he can't refuse? Has some tooling and has been listed for a month, already, so price should be soft.

https://billings.craigslist.org/tls/d/roundup-jet-gbh-1340a/7245458930.html

I have the 1440BV and a heavy 10. There's one that has nostalgia and one that does a ton of work....the sb is certainly nicer on the finish of the dials and such, but that bv will hold some impressive numbers too.

I'd buy the heaviest one you can afford that's not beat and had tooling.

That's jet has been sold for weeks, prior to this thread starting. Guess he likes interacting with people... Diversion from the sheeps.


For the lathe, I'm going young and pretty and it's costing me plenty. It came down to learning enough about the machines, what is on the new and used market as well as identifying very specific requirements, including a job scope that is not general machinist nor generalist of any sort, absolute necessary capabilities and one that meets personal desires within the scope of my plans. Seems lathes are like rifles, at least three to get started would be an easier choice than just one. I am very happy with my decision, she's a Goldilocks and she ain't Commie


I have yet to see chit for "w/tooling deals"... Be damned lucky to get a proper steady rest with a used lathe. Didn't I already mention that? LOL I am done shopping nonetheless...

This one was delivered to me today. It is a 1971 Monarch 10EE. Swings 12-1/2" x 20" and has a 5hp motor. Weighs 3450 lbs. Been watching for one for quite some time. Just happened to catch the c/l ad an hour after the listing appeared.