How big of a shop would you guys recommend for a hobby gunsmith? I’m looking for one big enough for a small lathe, mill, drill press and a workbench?

No matter what you do it will never be big enough. How big is your mill? It will never be big enough. Start with a floor model drill press.

Not sure about the shop size but where you located at? I’m asking because I’m located in Axtell and was curious about your location because there seems to be a shortage of smiths near me

I don’t have a mill yet but I learned on a Bridgeport so probably something along those lines.


Near Gatesville.

Mine's 8X25, and it works OK.. I do have another area I call the 'wood shop' where I do recoil pads and a few other things.. But the main shop is where 95% of my work was done.. JET knee mill and 13X40 lathe are in there along with three benches...

Exactly.

I advise a separate room for blast cabinet and surface grinder, to keep grit contained. Smaller us easier to heat and cool. My area has a 14x40, heavy 10, 9x42, surface grinder, the biggest new hermes, Oliver adrian bit sharpener and a few baldors. They occupy with little wasted space about 12x14' with bench and tool box.

At least 24 x 40 and that will fill up fast

When I started I thought I needed that too... Soon realized that was a mistake - maybe used it twice a year and mostly for non-firearms work.. Gave it to my son..

If you really need to start small, get a GOOD mill/drill unit that has the X/Y axis table... It will be ok for small jobs until you can obtain a good mill...

I also got a mill drill the first time; didn't take long to realize that was a mistake and went out and found a Bridgeport, no comparison to a non-knee mill

I have a old but very low hour jet mill, my boss bought a mill/drill for quick jobs in a remote shop.....that thing is neither a drill press nor a mill.


Whatever you build, remember that you have to control the temperature

One way you could go is to buy or build something along the lines of a storage building. Let's say 16'x24' and see how that works out. It's not so big to cost you allot for heating and cooling but gives you some room for the machines you want and then some. If you outgrow it you can use it for something else and build a bigger shop.
One thing I suggest is that if you buy a good knee type mill you'll have little need of a drill press.

So mainly a lathe and mill not so mush a drill press.

I have a Brideport, 2 lathes, metal cutting lay down saw, a cold saw, bench with barrel vise and regular vise, drill press and sanders, as well as tool boxes, and phase converter. 20 x 20 and I feel it could be just a hair bigger and it would not hurt anything.
TIG welder is out in the garage

Not 'mainly', but 'mandatory'....

I have a drill press too, i use it a lot. My lathe takes up so much space that i wish my shop was a lot bigger. I put the drill press, grinders, bandsaw outside under an awning. My next ship will be at least 1000 sq. Feet

Hey Dennis! Still rocking the Nardini? The Webb continues to be awesome, and I owe you for that. 👍

My shop is about 1k ft/2. I built the dang thing, almost 30 years ago, and if I could go back in time and dope-slap my 20-something self it’d be like, DUDE, if you are already doing this... just make it 8’ longer and 4’ wider! The added cost is pretty minimal at that point. But, I did what I did.

You can do a LOT in a 1K ft/2 shop, though. Just be sure to pour a really nice thick slab. Always, always overbuild concrete. Always. You’ll never regret it, and it’s cheap.

My floor is 13" thick with #9 rebar 16" O/C.

Wow! Do I need a floor that thick?

Nardin recommends 2 feet under machine

Aren’t the Nardin lathes pretty big though?

My area that I poured for my lathe was 6" and when running the lathe my starrett machinist level didn't budge.

A lot of your pad needs are based on your use. If you are in a shop with a lot of shock (tires being busted, jacks, hammering...etc) you will have more need for isolation than a single shop operator doing one op at a time.

Mass equals accuracy....but there's diminished returns.

Makes sense

Ideally, in a shop where multiple people are working, you want an isolated pad that is the foot print of machine and quite thick. You isolate it with rubber or similar. Nardini calls for 2 feet thick. If you are making a finish pass and someone drops a hammer on the floor, it can show up in your finish. My shop is a one-man show. I chose to just pour the whole shop 13" thick (worked out to the trucks loaded with 10 yards of concrete. I had a bunch of steel left over from a big church job so I just put a bunch in the floor. 10years and I don't even have a hairline crack yet.

Location makes a big difference in a shop floor. In my area we have a good base of clay to build on and it's very stable. A 6" floor with rebar will work fine. I could see other areas needing more. My floor is 6" thick and made form a 6 bag mix. My heaviest machine is the Haas VF3 at almost 16,000 lbs. No issues at all. The base you build on makes a big difference. If you pour a floor on unstable ground you're asking for problems.

Here it’s solid caliche rock after about 8” of topsoil, things don’t settle much here. As far as the actual building I’m thinking about approximately 400 sf something like 20x20 or 18x24.

If you have a 16,000# machine on 6" of concreteit is moving more than you think.

I can see where you live the ground being less stable than here. Judging by the accuracy and surface finish I get it's set up fine. Come by sometime and check it out.

A 2-car garage-sized space should be adequate for the machines you've listed, until you decide to add other functions. My present shop is ~700 sq ft, but is very cramped.

Not too many gunsmiths are running 16,000lb lathes.

I agree, but most smiths don't have over a couple thousand pound rigs.

I was going to say the same thing... of all the gunsmiths I know I think the heaviest lathe any of them run is a South Bend Heavy 10 or similar and those aren't even close to 16K- more like 10% of that.... in any case, regardless of what your substrate is below your shop it will be helpful to lay down an extra bed of concrete where the heavy machinery is going to be placed. 6"-12" should be fine to help dampen vibrations in your machines IMO as long as it has sufficient reinforcement in the slab like heavy mesh or rebar...

It's not a lathe. It's a vertical machining center. cnc controlled. My lathe weighs about 4500 lbs. I'm not a gunsmith per say either but a self employed tool maker. I've done some gun work over the years though. If you have a decent machine whether it's a lathe, mill etc. it should not be prone to vibrate. A lathe might if what you're cutting has more weight on one side of the chuck than the other or if you have something on a faceplate that's not round and the weight isn't centered. Vibration on a mill is usually a sign of a poor cut unless you're using a boring bar/head. They will vibrate due to the out of balance tooling but even that can be curbed by rpm. Bad bearings in the spindle can lead to vibrations and even the gears on a lathe but these are mechanical issues that need fixing. My machines run smooth and I avoid out of balance things putting extra stress on the spindle.

So with that being said the problem with any floor is the base. Our friend in Alaska is dealing with an entirely different situation than most of us here. Where I live even the big manufacturing facilities don't require anything over 6" thick. All concrete should have rebar in it and a good base. It also matters how many bags of cement are used per yard. Footers usually are 5-5 1/2 bag mix. Good floors are 6. It's been mentioned that if your floor takes a pounding it needs to be thicker. Why put expensive machines in an area like that. We want precision from them and that's not a good way to get it. It's hard on the ways of any machine to be jolted.

When I worked for Enstar in Anchorage, we had a lot of road cuts that were on sphagnum bogs. The roads literally float on fabric and foam. Footings were waaaay deep.

I'm jealous that you can have a VMC at your disposal. I feel pretty good about my little iron pile, but you're certainly winning the cool tool contest.

My stuff is my sole income. I'm not fit to work for anyone else anymore, too cranky and set in my ways! If you have a mill or lathe you have the equipment that won 2 world wars and put men on the moon. We should all be proud of our craft whether it's a hobby or full time. It's always a great interest to me to see people carry on with the trade. I hope to be helpful in promoting it. Gunsmithing is precision work and our nation has a deep history in it.

I bet building anything on the ground in Alaska is a real challenge!

Not so.

Every time an endmill flute begins its cut, every time a fly cutter begins its cut (etc) vibration is induced into the machine. This can be magnified, for example, when climb cutting, especially if there is any play in the ways.

True but and that's why good machines have plenty of mass to offset any vibrations that might occur. Each one is different too. On my Haas I always climb mill, even in roughing cuts. You can't do that on a standard mill for the most part. The cutter manufacturers have also changed the twist rate on the flutes too so they run smoother.

My Shop is 24 ft. X 40 ft. with all the above Amenities needed. Welder in additional attached Garage/work area. (Works great)
With Concrete being #4000 psi. 6 inch thick Slab on proper vapor barrier/ with 2 inch Ridged insulation underneath,(keeps floor warm),
and proper Steel reinforcement, on a compacted Base.
I built mine 45 yrs. ago, with no problems, and plenty of room,(more is better), and I don't regret it!
Keeping it organized, with storage space is important. You can accumulate a lot of additional Stuff.
Work benches for tool storage, cabinets, possible Safe's for Gun Lock up.
If you make it big enough, and properly plan for it, your reloading bench, and area, can be included, like mine,
Just remember to keep the so called sparks away from your Powder.(Shop common Sense).
All the powder, stays in Locked humid controlled cabinets.

I built it yrs. ago when my Father in Law was a Smith, and it gave him a place to do his thing.
With both in laws, both gone now, I still use the shop as needed. We had a lot of Fun, in that shop, and I learned a lot.
My Father in Law had to retire early on Disability, and was able to keep going doing gun repairs when he felt up to it.
Having a shop with temperature control, heat/cool, he could stay more comfortable.
I also built a double door, with access to outside for Customers, deliveries, etc..................
off the Concrete Driveway.

My Buddies always told me I was ahead of my times building, and having the fore sight, to do so, at a young age.
That and a Quarter back then got me a cup of Coffee!
I understand Money and Budgets. Do what you can.
Good Luck,

HS58

i keep thinking about doing a new shop area. I feel the important things to remember after concrete as it has been talked about are things like accessibility to move equipment in so rollup door or double door will allow a forklift in. A layout that will allow wall to isolate wood working area as dust can be a real issue even with dust collection. Height so it gives good overhead but still easy to heat and cool. Insulation for noise and heating and cooling such as Minisplit. Electric and water as needed.

The big thing though if size wont be huge I feel a longer shop allows separation without a lot of wasted dead space. 18'x 24' to 36' would fit a lot of equipment and allow for splitting your work areas. minimum. If you can go bigger, do it. I hope you post what you have decided. sorry if I missed it.

On another note I would buy the correct mill and lathe for the work you plan on evolving into. I have access to a Bridgeport and decent lathe so use them a lot but I own a mill/drill and small lathe. They will do a lot of work but I am always think about upgrading them to what I really want as they have many limitations.

I started with a 30x30 metal building on a 6" slab and piers on 7.5' centers. We do not have foundation problems in our area. Mine is insulated and has R panel inner walls. I built a 15x15 room for reloading, computer, TV, bathroom, and a heat pump. The rest of the shop has a heat pump and a water cooler. I have 2 lathes, 2 Bridgeports, a Roll In saw, a surface grinder, 2 Baldor grinders, a tool and cutter grinder, and a free standing New Hermes engraver. Oh yeah, I forgot my 2 belt grinders. I enclosed the 15x30 porch. blow in foam insulation, painted plywood walls. All of my shop now has LED lighting. I put a pad behind my shop with a roof for my 5hp 120 gal compressor and my 2 rotary phase converters. Sure helps on the noise situation. I also use 2 VFDs with 200 ohm stopping resistors for my Bridgeports. I will install an A/C unit soon for the addition. Grandson moved my sanders, grinders, saws out there today. I have 2 cabinets, one for each mill. It has holes for collets, assorted chuckless drills, boring heads, flycutters, and mills, countersinks, clamp sets and counter bores. The drawers hold the parallels and a multitude of mill tools. I'm a lucky guy that has a product that pays for my bad habits.
I do no gun work except for myself. I do a little machine work for family and friends. It is nice to work on what I want when I want. I learned early on that I couldn't gunsmith for money as I can't hardly motivate myself to do my own work.
A 30x45 as I now have is what I feel I need.

Listen to Jim1611

I'm looking to move. My next shop will be at least 20x60.
I'm tired of tripping over stuff...

Just started the permit application process for our hew home and shop building. I've been squeezed into my 440 square foot shop for way too long. My new shop will be 36 x 50 inside and have a 12 x 36 lean to on one side to store my boats, tractor, and other toys out of the weather. Planning an auto lift in the center bay and it will be a Websteel building so I don't have posts inside the shop to break up the space. I am really looking forward to get to the point I can actually have a shop I can work in again without squeezing between tools....

Bob

The tools; mill, lathe, welder, drill press, grinders, band saw, air compressor, vacuum, etc do not take up much room.
Storing stuff takes up the space.

My wife is trying to declutter me.

Resist decluttering attempts by the spousal unit at all costs. Pretty soon she'll have you selling guns and going dress shopping with her if she gets her way ....

I disagree, you need room to work around those tools. They take up a significant footprint

I’ve settled on a 20x20.

Figure out what you think you'll need then double or triple it. In 2 years you'll wish you went bigger even after doubling it.