I'm having a black walnut log milled for some stock blanks and wondered how can you tell which ones will have figure without it being finished?
I guess what I'm asking, is how can they be graded?
thx!
Chris
sand it, or run it through a well tuned planer and wet it, alcohol won't raise the grain but water will work too. My VERY limited experience with walnut is that all the figure is in the crotch areas, the larger the limb and the more perpendicular it is to the trunk, the more figure. the exception would be fiddleback, but I think the best figure in the log would be in the stump. if you're planning on checkering the stocks, see how porous the wood is, I understand some black walnut can be very porous, and that can ruin checkering. good luck, I hope you find something good in your log.
Tim
Your logs are a bit small for really highly figured stuff. The crotches have "feather" and that is the best you can hope for in a small log. The cut must be through the centers of both limbs to maximize it. If you have to plane a blank to see the figure it doesn't really have any... Good stuff lets you know it is there.
I second the stump as the place to look. Should get it out of the ground before it checks much more though.
Assuming no run-out in the grain and dry, clean, straight blanks you are looking at what typical factory stocks are made of.
art
art,
Do you think there's enough stump left above ground to make it worthwhile to dig them out?
Thx,
Chris
I'm told that a guy has to know how to cut the tree with a chain saw to get the best out of it. If you've sent it to a mill they are not usually experienced WRT what you want. There's slab cut, quarter sawn, and a whole bunch of angles to use when you make lumber. Look at oak and see the many types that are in furniture.
Was the tree alive or dead when it was removed from the ground? I wouldn't mess with it at all. I've seen this done before and looked at the results....for the most part it's a lot of work for what you get in return. How you going to get the wood dry that's not to be used for a stock blank? Unless you have a very unusual highly figured black walnut tree it'd be a lot less hassel to just buy a blank.
I've explained to the guy at the mill exactly what I'm looking for and he's familiar with milling finish lumber. He's going to quarter saw it for me.
I don't remember if the walnut was alive or dead when it was cut down about a year ago (by someone else). I'm just getting what they left laying on the ground and potentially going to dig out the stumps.
One of the reasons I'm doing this as the 87 year old man that owns the farm is a close friend and thinks it would be really cool for me to make a gun stock out of a black walnut that is from his farm. I don't neccessarily need an exhibition piece, but would like something with some figure in it to dress up my Howa 1500 that is currently wearing a plastic stock.
Looking at the size of the stump and the fact they cut it pretty close to the ground it is a good question. I have zero doubt there is at least one really good two-piece blank in the stump. It will not come out easily though.
If you can get a pressure washer to the stump and clean the bark and dirt from the biggest lobe of the root mass you should be able to sneak a blank out of it. That will give you an idea what you have.
art
I was able to procure a nice piece of stump. I believe it's claro. Not quite as nice as some other thin shell walnuts, but lots of figure. This will be a two piece (Ruger #1)
walnut blank
prostrate8
The color in your picture is a bit wierd and I cannot get a feel for the true color, but claro or bastogne would both be reasonable guesses from the information. Bastogne tends to have more greens in it where claro runs to red and pink.
Mild point of correction though, claro is not a thinshelled walnut. Neither is bastogne as it is a mule.
art
Prostate8: That is claro, and a fine peice at that, I can tell where the flow for the buttstock will be, and that will make for a nice #1 stock.
Clattin: let us know how it ends up. I know of a hugh blk. walnut close by and thought about trying it myself. Seems like it would be a lot of work, and then there is the long time to dry process.If you could end up with some nice blanks,and learn somethings in the process, thats what it is all about, good luck!
Yes, so we meet again !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Schlemiel, schlimazel, hasenpfeffer incorporated!
srtrax
Welcome to the fire! Would be curious how you know that is claro. I grant it looks a lot like it and it even looks like there is some burl there commonly associated with a grafted orchard claro. But I hesitate to pronounce it claro without a bit more.
I have two blanks that look identical and both are marked exhibition grade claro from the old Fajen mill. There is a pronounced difference in density. The light one is actually bastogne and it is lighter then standard claro. The microscope makes it hard to hide its roots...
art
another pict of wood one more Camera and lighting leaves something to be desired.
Tiny bit of burl there on the lower end huh, bout softball sized. I'm still thinking of claro ATM though, not seeing alot of greens.
Savage, as a bowl turner you might like this other one I purchased. The dimensions were misstated when I purchased it. I was given the above one as a replacement.
dry blank (bowl sized) wet
Holy crapola
That'd make a nice one there.
Sorry for jumping in here but I've been reading with interest your project. When you make a stock from beautiful walnut how do you dry the wood before the stock is made or after. What is the ideal mosture content. Do you make a block from the donor stump and then dry it or is it dryed at room temperature or oven temp?
I'm far from an expert on seasoning sticks, but I'll share what I have been told. Most of the time a freshly cut log is sealed in a type of wax to hold the moisture and only allow it to escape slowly. A stick dried too fast will develop checks that render it firewood. I understand that the best way to age the wood is in an environment with a humidity similar to indoors (pretty dry). The wax limits the flow of water out and it typically takes an inch per year or more for very figured wood. Some wood people kiln dry, but I have read enough precautions to decide to avoid taking that route. Srtrax has some really pretty blanks and finished stocks. He helped wind me up on pretty wood, but my budget put the kabosh on really high grade stuff.
378Canuck
There are whole lot of books written on drying stock wood and none cover the gamut! It is easy to ruin a blank and most do it by drying the wood too rapidly.
Highly-figured areas and end grain are waxed to slow the drying in those areas. If you think of wood as a bundle of very small straws it is easy to visualize the water leaving those areas rapidly. When wood gets to about 35% moisture content (fiber saturation point) it starts to shrink as it dries. Before that the water loss was unbound water loose in the cells and various vessels. The bound water in the cellulose walls holds the wood in a plumped up state.
When the wood is dried too fast the outside dries and can surface check because it shrinks faster than the inside. But worse than that if the surface gets down to about 6% while the inside is still quite wet the surface wood will take a set. It will not shrink much beyond that stretched size.
When the middle dries it will shrink to much smaller than the outside. The internal wood can literally be pulled apart by the "case-hardened" exterior. The damage is usually called collapse or honeycomb.
When looking at blanks lay a straightedge across the grain on one side. If there is a big valley there (especially if there is another just like it on the other side)it is probably a worthless blank. Many sellers plane the outside of their blanks and round the corners. They give all kinds of reasons that sound better than hiding case-hardening...
Kiln drying is never done to produce better wood. It is only done to dry wood faster "with an acceptable level of degrade." Mills cannot afford to stockpile lumber while they wait on it to dry. Getting it out the door is important.
Not everyone agrees on all aspects of drying lumber and MC is just one issue. It is fact that 6% is a point where wood takes a set and reduces the amount of future moving it will do. The more times it cycles down to 6% the more stable the wood will be in service. Most custom stock guys will not consider wood less than 5 years dry and many insist on 10. All prefer old wood.
That said, many use wood all the way up to 12% because that is what it will be after laying around in their shop in the summer. WInter is when the humidity tends to cycle low in most places and do the serious drying for a set. Obviously there are lots of parts of the country that get wetter in the winter and I am talking about indoors with central heat.
Getting the water out rapidly in the beginning and slowing it down when fiber saturation point is neared and then speeding it up again once the wood has done most of its shrinking and is only working on a set is key to making good stock wood as fast as possible.
The rule of thumb about drying for one year per inch of thickness really misses the big issue of low-end cycling. It is a very good idea to stack dry blanks in a wetter area and then bring them back into a very dry area repeatedly if you intend to rush the project. Get it very dry several times over the course of a year and you will likely have wood as good as much older...
art
Very interesting info and thanks for taking the time to post it. I've messed around with wood making goose decoy upper body and small ducks in hard woods. It sounds like you need to be a wood expert to attempt a stock and not for the rookies. The seasoning part is critical from what I gather and buying a blank conditioned already would probably be the better way to go, the way I read it. Thanks again and have a good day and good luck with the project.
There are big differences between a blank treated properly and one that has been abused in drying assumiing they started into drying similarly. The chisels taste the difference immediately.
No reason for a rookie to avoid building a stock. It is far from rocket science to start. A little bit of an eye is all that is really needed.
Most folks starting out skip the parts I find most important. Doing a semi-inlet instead of starting from the squared up blank does not give you time to find out anythign about the wood and its condition. Cut it in stages and find out what it is about as you go with none of the limits a semi-inlet imposes.
art
I'm really interested in tackling a stock in birds eye maple. This is in my opinion one of the most beautiful grained woods in North America. I saw only a few in my lifetime but they are awesome.
Birdseye is pretty stuff and very serviceable as stock wood, but it is more fun to look at than cut. Every eye has a complete change of grain direction and it messes with chisels when inletting. The true workhorse of stock making, the rasp, cares not what it cuts...
art
Did you ever try inletting with a dremel? Would it work on the bird's eye maple?
Sitka deer, would you recommend a book on stockmaking? Is it really something a layman can do?
"If there is a big valley there (especially if there is another just like it on the other side)it is probably a worthless blank. "
This is causing me some concern. The really figured part of my blank is a valley (about 1/4" shallower than the rest). I just assumed it was really dense when it dehydrated. The valley is large enough to swallow my entire stock. Any way to determine if it's ruined?
378Canuck
Inletting with a die grinder, Foredom, Dremel, whatever is fine for coarse work and I use it a lot when glass bedding stocks. But it will not replace chisels and it probably is no faster. It is harder to develop flat surfaces and keep them straight with machine work.
The tear-out issue with the eyes is there whether cut with a chisel or grinder.
art
prostrate8
Stockmaking in very straight forward work with obvious steps and directions. There is no reason it cannot be done by anyone. Most newbies leave more wood on the stock than there should be and that is easy to fix... Grayling built his first stock (pump shotgun) at 10 and it is a pretty thing that he shoots quite well.
There are a bunch of videos and quite a few books that do a decent job of explaining the process. Monty Kennedy's book "Checkering and Carving of Gunstocks" is the classic and still very useable.
Lay a straight edge on each side of your blank and post a picture of the gap. It will be fairly easy to ses how bad it is.
art
Lay a straight edge on each side of your blank and post a picture of the gap. It will be fairly easy to ses how bad it is.
Thanks. I will, but we are about to leave for 8jr's bday party. I will try to get those picts up tonight.
Just in case it matters, the stock is for a Ruger #1 RSI. I don't know if it matters that it's a two piece.
After closer examination I see I have a problem.
I don't know why I didn't spot it immediately.
warp
Sad to say, but that is an example of what can go very wrong. It is not actually warp by definition, but rather, collapse.
The end grain irregularities show a pretty big problem. Even if the wood inside did not seperate (collapse technically) it is highly stressed due to the enlarged edges and the skinny middle reach.
If it is long dry it is probably history from a blank perspective. If not too old you could plane it straight and true on all 4 sides and cut the ends off clean and straight. Monitor it for warping at that point because some of the stresses will have been relieved and the wood will likely move a lot.
If it is not a pretty special piece of wood I would not consider building a stock with it. However, the demands on a two-piece are vastly easier to meet than a one-piece.
art
Well, that a bummer Art (but I appreciate the info). I wonder if it would do any good to put it through a circuit of humidity/dry acclimations. There are some checks, but not where I imagined the heel/toe zone (which is in the picture). I will square it up and wait to see. I hate to spend a ton of time inletting and shaping by hand to see it destroyed from the inside out. Would using your epoxy method to seal it from the elements make a difference? How about poly stabilizing. I have heard people say it ruins the reflective qualities.
Good knife handle material.
Stablizing is a no go... Too much weight added if done right and penetration is achieved. Not enough effect if weight is not affected.
The stock bolt hole will reduce a lot of stress and knocking the skin off will also. But the sad fact is there will be a lot of walking going on in the wood for a long time, particularly if the wood gets wet.
art
Prostate8: Bummer, sorry for your loss, i know how hard it can be on a person to lose one that is so dear to the heart! BUT, GUESS WHAT? When your through greving, maybe we can do some window shopping and come up with just the thing you really want, may take some time, but remember, everything happens for a reason. May god be with you and yours untill a replacement comes around! LOL, Lets look around.
My comments about possible salvation are based on the assumption there are no internal cracks... Possible, but I would not bet on it...
One of my favorite pieces looks the same way, but mine is a two piece and nothing i can do about it, small not good sized like yours. I had a stockmaker friend who is very around dry and green wood tell me to remove the wax off the sides to let it breath. Guess it was too soon because it did the same thing!Thankfully, i didnt do the others that way, hope all works out.
Put yer hanky away Steve. I just got off the horn with VO, and their sending me a free truck rifle (break down Swede). Well....I think they are, I didn't understand a word those guys said. Now that I think about it, I kinda doubt they will send that rifle. I forgot to give 'em my address.
I wish I hopped on that stock on e-bay you pointed me to. It was wild and sold for a song.
There are plenty of sticks in the sea. Pass the whiskey. I feel like a country song.
Twould still make a heckuva bowl, or a S**T load of pen and wine bottle stopper blanks.
Just saying
What tone of voice did VO use, i need a truck gun also, dang ugly things anyway! I'll keep my eyes open for you, how long in the forend?
CLATTIN: You asked about grading wood for gunstock blanks, i think this guy hits the nail on the head as for the right reasons for grading a blank!
http://www.oldworldwalnut.com/main.html
CLATTIN: You asked about grading wood for gunstock blanks, i think this guy hits the nail on the head as for the right reasons for grading a blank!
http://www.oldworldwalnut.com/main.html
I have been to his site in the past and his biggest blunder is the use of a kiln in the drying process. He does make some good points as well. I can tell you that the guys who build my rifles do not want any blank that has been steamed or put in a kiln.
Nice, srtrax...thank you. Very informative!
I might go pick up the boards today. If so, I'll try to get some pics posted so you guys can see. I don't expect too much, but it will be fun to have a gunstock made from a tree on my neighbors farm. Its gonna go on a Howa 1500 .300 Win Mag, so no sense in putting it in some expensive clothes!
Chris
When you get done cutting the rough pieces out, I'd be interested in what's left to try and get some turning stock out of.
Andrew
BOSS HOSS: I agree with you about kiln drying, but the grading method of his is good. Kiln drying takes to much of the color out of the wood as per good ol air drying!
Steve, I just looked at my phone bill online and I was calling a number in the Netherlands, so I don't think I'll be getting that VO "truck gun". Those ladies in the Netherlands sure sound hot though.
Prostate8: Sure they sounded hot, thats because they are from the
Neverlands!
What is the barrel length on the RSI, i dont recall! One could also look for a one piece rifle blank to get the forend length and match the buttstock!