I have been trying to adjust the trigger on my 70 Win. I can't seem to get the pull wt under 3 1/2 to 4 lbs without it not cocking, or worse yet, cocks and slips off and fires. It seems as the wt gets less, there is not enough springback to engage the sear. Over travel adj. is good. Any ideas, or live with my 4 lb trigger.

Art

Not the most user friendly trigger when it comes to adjustments.

Two things control trigger weight on these puppies...sear to trigger friction and spring weight. Sometimes (and that should be emphasized ) the factory spring can be replaced with a new one to allow lighter pull weight adjustment while still maintaining enough tension to keep the bolt cocked. That tension between the sear and the trigger is all that prevents the release of the cocked pin.

You can also try cleaning and polishing the engagement surfaces of the sear and trigger...IF you know what you're doing and only polish and smooth them without removing a bunch of material, rounding things off, or changing the angles.

Wow, for everything except punching little bitty holes in paper for great big wads of cash, I would be tickled to death with a M-70 that broke clean at four pounds. If you are REALLY sure you want it messed with, give a trigger smith about a hundred and get it right. RickB hit it dead on with "not user friendly".

Wayne

This is nothing but my own personal opinion and preference...but within reason I don't give a rats ass what the actual measured weight of pull is as long as it breaks clean and crisp.

Other things I forgot to mention. Be sure to check and see that the trigger proper is freely pivoting on it's pin and that the trigger (and the trigger stop spring portion) is not rubbing on or touching anything it shouldn't be.

Haven't used one of these personally, but several friends say they are the greatest thing since gunpowder.

http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/st...e=WINCHESTER%2070%20ADJUSTABLE%20TRIGGER

To get that trigger right there's several things to be done, and done carefully..

I specialize in M70s.. If you can't find someone to do the job right, send just the action and bolt to me (no stock/bottom metal) and I'll get it right for you...

Why would you not want the complete rifle?

I have found numerous incidents over the years on all types of rifles where the stock and bottom metal were contributing factors to a trigger problem due to poor inletting, poor bedding, etc.

Just curious.

All I need is the barreled receiver and bolt for a trigger job.. The stock and bottom metal is just excess weight to ship and has no bearing on the trigger operation..

The last two I worked on didn't even have barrels...



IF the issues were both trigger/accuracy etc., then I'd want the entire rifle for full and detailed inspection. The poster above merely indicated he wished a crisp, lighter and totally safe trigger so I can save the owner money in shipping/packaging..

I'll politely disagree about the stock and bottom metal being irrelevant to a complete trigger job that includes testing for safety and function in the "home" they will be occupying when the customer uses it.

Disagreement noted.. However, done properly (emphasis there) the trigger on a M70 won't go off even if dropped 10 feet.. Can't say the same for Remmies, Rugers or others.. There's another test I can do that duplicates the 'stock drop' test w/o the wood.. Haven't had one come back yet in 10 years..

And I should maybe clarify something else; IF I really feel the need to test one w/live fire, I merely install it in one of the spare stocks I keep around for the purpose...

Perhaps I'm not being clear on this.

My concern centers on the FACT that many times the stock and/or the bottom metal is inletted poorly and interferes with the trigger to one degree or another.

If you don't have the customers complete rifle how would you know?

To me it's a no-brainer to have the complete rifle in your hands whenever you are doing any type of work and the difference in cost for shipping isn't worth worrying about. What does it cost to have them return it because it doesn't work right in the stock you told them not to send?

And since we are agreeing to disagree I would also question your comment about a Winchester 70 trigger being less susceptible to firing due to a bounce than are Remington triggers.

Rick, the trigger that you suggested looks like the answer to my pre 64 Westerner. Can a novice install it properly if they are careful?

I guess that would depend upon the "novice."

They come with instructions for adjusting, and as long as a guy is fairly handy mechanically and makes it a point to throughly test it for safety, I would think everything would be fine.

Since it has an adjustment for sear engagement you have to pay VERY close attention to screwing around with that adjustment. Lessening that engagement in conjunction with going way down on weight can make for an unsafe trigger real quick.

The RifleBasix trigger is very decent and not to bad to install or adjust.

I like my triggers pretty light, and have found the best solution for my purposes is to just install a Jewell trigger. They are safe down to a couple of ounces. I like mine set between 1 and 1.5 pounds and this is very easy. They are not, however, cheap and you may have to remove some wood and/or metal from the trigger guard.

http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=228165

Many people believe the Winchester model 70 trigger to be the greatest rifle trigger yet conceived, so if you admit to replacing it, be prepared to be called 'heretic'.

[quote=Tod

Many people believe the Winchester model 70 trigger to be the greatest rifle trigger yet conceived, so if you admit to replacing it, be prepared to be called 'heretic'. [/quote]

You will seldom have much trouble finding people who relish in telling others what they should and shouldn't do to their rifles.

Thumper,

As RickB says change out the spring in your M70 trigger. Do this first. If it works your all set. If it does not work and you can't figure it out take it to a smith.

The basic problem with getting the trigger pull lighter in a M70 is that the factory springs are too heavy and too short. When we adjust the trigger we run out of spring travel and then the rifle is not safe.

Just get a lighter and a longer spring. This is all there is to it for now besides knowing how to do a drop and slam test for safety.

http://www.clcweb.net/Shooting/Rifl...ting_the_Winchester_Model_70_Trigger.htm

If the lighter spring does not give you the pull you want then try to clean the sear surfaces. I would not suggest an unskilled metal craftsman stone a M 70 sear.

I have done many of these and they all turn out really well. A pull of two pounds is easy to obtain if you want it that light.

Big misconception regarding Winchester triggers is that you need to drop the spring weight...........not necessary and isn't even my first choice.

The geometry between the sear, trigger, and cocking piece all play a part and need to be modified by a professional or made correctly from the start.

A stock Winchester spring, when coupled with a properly designed, trigger and sear, are capable of a safe 1lbs. trigger pull, but obviously, 2lbs. would be more desireable.

If working over a trigger, I prefer to have the stock for one reason..........There is a small amount of wood that sometimes needs to be removed in the stock that can limit the amount of travel the sear has to move. Not all stocks are the same and this can come back to bite ya.
Slam firing scenarios can all be replicated without the stock in hand, but not knowing for sure whether the stock will intefere with the sear is a serious concern.

As far as the Rifle Basix model of trigger, I wouldn't use them, simply because there's much more to a good working model 70 trigger than adding adjustment screws onto the trigger. While I'm sure guys are getting them to work; it spells a recipe for disaster in my book.

A short list of things that can and will effect your trigger pull on a model 70:

Sear engagement and angle
Trigger engagement and angle
Cocking piece engagement and angle
concentricity and true position of cocking piece relative to bolt shroud.
Bolt shroud true position and concentricity relative to bolt body.
Bolt body's position relative to the receiver.
Finally, trigger and sear hinge pin holes diameter and position relative to all the above mentioned items.

As you can see, adding a couple of screws to the trigger and calling it a day, is hardly enough to ensure that it's done right.

FACT? 'Many times'? Huh, strange.. I've encountered maybe two (I can only really remember one, and it was a Remmy. Due to the recoil lug shifting or not aligned from the factory. That doesn't happen in a M70) rifles in ten years that had stock/trigger/inlet issues and neither one was a M70.. The other several hundred bolt rifles I've had in were just fine in that regard..

'any' is different from 'trigger job'. If there's firing, feeding, accuracy, ejection, yadayada etc.., then the entire rifle is shipped. Hey, it's your money... If you want to spend $80 for an operation that can be done for under $50, be my guest.. Oh, and if it still doesn't work, the shipping is MY cost, not theirs.. No one's had to take me up on that one yet..

A 'properly' done M70 trigger job will result in a trigger withstanding much more inertia before tripping than a Remington unit.

I've done both. It's due to the difference in design and where the adjustment springs are located.

I know you're concerned about this, obviously. Nothing at all wrong with that. But I do this full time for a living.. Do you? Oh, and btw, changing the spring to a lighter one WILL result in less inertia being needed to lose the sear.. NOT the way to do it..

Best to you...

I'm sorry...I must have missed the memo that proclaimed Redneck as the only working gunsmith on the site!

Yes, I do this also...and I would not accept a trigger job without the complete rifle being sent to me...nor would I accept a customer who was too cheap to pay a buck or two more in shipping to do so.

A "properly" set up trigger, of any brand, should withstand a slam test (in the stock it will be used with) without tripping the sear.

For the last 25 years I have never adjusted a Mdl 70 trigger. I take them to a gunsmith friend and he sets up and surface grinds all the pertinent mating surfaces to the proper angle and resets tension and I have been happy. I actually don't own a trigger scale as weight of pull means absolutely nothing to me. It's all feel and I can't judge between 3 ounces and 3 pounds but I can tell crisp and clean every time.

Sounds like you're a smart man.

I apologise.. I honestly did not know you were a smith also.. And yes, zimhunter is a smart man..

However, your statement " Yes, I do this also...and I would not accept a trigger job without the complete rifle being sent to me...nor would I accept a customer who was too cheap to pay a buck or two more in shipping to do so. " infers the customer's too cheap.. Not the case.. I tell them I don't require the stock. It's their choice after that..

It's also your choice to do it your way.. No problem.. But you indicate that any other method (sans/stock) isn't correct and/or possible. In that, we disagree. Let's leave it at that...
BTW, there's a certain Colt specialist in CA that restores parts in obsolete Colt revolvers. I had him rebuild a trigger/sear set for a First Generation Colt. All he needed was the parts.. They came back in better-than-new condition, and worked perfectly..

What's your method of 'slam testing', if I may ask?

If you will note I said "I" wouldn't accept a trigger job without having the complete rifle. If you don't want or need it that's up to you and your customers.

As for "slam" tests...I smack the butt of the rifle against the hardest head I can find, and I think I just might have found a new one to use!

Just kidding.

Uh huh.. Well, us Norwegians are known for hard heads.. I use blocks of wood if the need arises. I think your head might be too soft.. (Just kidding, really)..


I was serious when I asked if you did this for a living.. I know some of the smiths here but not all by any means.. What do you specialize in?

I'm sure you know to be VERY careful doing a slam test with the stock.. Ever had one break?

In case it wasn't clear...the head I used to use was mine!

I try to "specialize" in getting the job done I guess.

Gotcha.. A worthy goal to be sure.. It's one of the reason I purposely keep my shop operations small; with little room I MUST get these projects done on a timely basis or I'm toast...

Best to you.

Regardless of whether I have the stock or not; before I do a typical "slam test", my rawhide mallet gets lots of opportunity on the receiver.
I started doing that procedure many years ago, after I had worked over a few triggers that survived the stock slam test, but didn't make it through a mallet test.

If it passes both, you are definitely good to go.

Exactly.. I never worry about breaking a stock that way also...

OK, that was an interesting series of posts/debate. How much to send a Pre 64 Model 70 264 Win Mag Westerner from Texas and have a good crisp trigger, no slack, no creep 2-3 lbs or so. Like Rick I want it to break clean when I want to shoot. A great trigger makes a great rifle. I can deal with grouping and most anything else that comes up. Triggers that go off on their on are too dangerous, thus I want a pro. When I lived in Houston I couls find someone to do this. East Texas is new to me. Gunsmiths that I have met up here were probably good tree trimmers or fair tractor mechanics. Probably have some around , but I have learned to ask here about most anything.
The people on this thread are the best , most honest and sometimes tough on us that ask stupid questions.
Send me a PM or answer on line. Anybody know what is a fair price? Loaded question, I know. Here it comes!!

PM sent...

Redneck
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Back at ya..

Redneck
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I sent my Pre-64 to Redneck (without the stock)for repairs.
All I got was first class service.
Quick turnaround and a fair price.

Y'all quit yer gripin' and tell me whether it's worth the effort, cost and time to remove an itsy bitsy tiny bit of creep from my 670a.

The rascal breaks beautifuly at about 3 pounds once that tiny bit of movement happens. My finger reads it every time. Still ...

Hey Guys,

I wanted to thank all of you for your comments and interesting debate. I have learned a lot about the M70 trigger. I have safely adjusted other M70's I have, but was unaware of the pittfals until I ran into this one. We learn by listening to those that have been there, and there are obviously men with talent on this thread.

art

A couple smiths in my area are good on triggers. My M70 heavy varmint is clean and crisp at 2#. These same fellows take the old Savage triggers military triggers, etc., to 1.5-2# with superb feel and function. Regardless of who does the work, an understanding of the mechanics and attention to detail is imperative. Nice thread here.

Redneck
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