Fellow Campers...

I'm seeking some insight and perhaps some unique and as yet untried method in hopes of retrieving my wayward rifle.

Reader's Digest version: Had a rifle built over the last year and half or so for a (successful) dangerous game hunt. For many reasons I didn't get the rifle until about 3 weeks prior to my departure (an entirely different but related story).

Part of the build included putting NECG sights on the rifle. Regulation for 400 gr. TSX at 50 yards resulted in this:





Time was short--So, I set the zero as it is, set zero on the scope and off I went to Africa. I had no time to do otherwise.

Upon my return I had some very urgent family matters to attend to and so the issue with the rifle took a back seat for about 6 weeks.

After sending the rifle back to the excellent gunsmith (Mark Bansner) who assembled the rifle (he got the barreled action and fit the sights/stock only), it was determined that the barrel was faulty. The sights are aligned within 0.001" of the barrel centerline.

I then began the REAL adventure about which I now write. After numerous unanswered phone calls--unanswered e-mails to the barrel maker (Dan Pedersen of "Classic Barrel Works" in Prescott, AZ) I had to send a letter to Mr. Pederson via USPS restricted delivery (confirms that only a specified person or authorized agent will receive a piece of mail.)

In the letter I explained what you've read here, enclosed the photos that you see and asked for some remedy.

It seemed to work (at first) and I was thankful and relieved that he responded within a day of getting the letter. He agreed to look at the rifle so I sent it to him. After a few days he called me and said that yes, the barrel did indeed appear to be faulty and the he'd do whatever it took to remedy the situation. That was in July.

Since then, I've had only three conversations with him. Always the same story--"just spun the barrel--just getting around to asking Mark Bansner about what they used to coat their rifles--call you by the end of the week". All BS.

I called Mark and asked him if Pederson had EVER called anyone in the shop regarding what they'd found when they inspected it OR anything about how they coat their rifles. NOBODY in the shop has ever gotten a call from Mr. Pederson.

It's now been almost two months since I've had any contact with Mr. Pederson. He refuses to take calls or has an answering service that is full and won't (literally) accept messages.

I've had a friend who went to gunsmithing school where Mr. Pederson is sometimes employed call a classmate who resides in the area of Mr. Pederson's shop and physically walk in to have him ask WTFO? (politely).

No response.

Last week I was able (finally) to get his voice mail--and left a message explaining that I felt I was running out of options.

I have now run into the proverbial brick wall.

He has my rifle and doesn't appear to want to either repair or return it.

***UPDATED ACTION***

My next course of action was to contact the state attorney general and file a complaint with them (they handle consumer complaint/fraud in Arizona) but they are unlikely to be effective and are S L O W in their response time.

I've contacted his boss at the Yavapai Junior College where he teaches (part time) and laid out the story for him. Haven't heard anything there but I just sent him a letter today so I don't expect to for a while.

I have his FFL # (he's also a gun dealer) so I also filed a complaint with BATFE. Finally, doing a search on the EZ Check (BATFE) I found that his FFL expires on Monday and along with notifying them of my complaint I have a feeling he'll be (at the very least) audited by the Feds. Hope his logs are up to snuff...

I'm seriously wondering whether or not someone could consider the rifle as having been stolen. It may seem a bit overblown at first blush, but the guy does have my rifle and does not seem inclined AT ALL to return it. He's just "disappeared"...

Elevating his bad behavior to a crime doesn't give me ANY pleasure whatsoever but I really am stuck.

At the same time I don't WANT to create any more problems and oh, by the way, I'd like first and foremost to get my rifle fixed and get it back. I think the first wish is unrealistic, so I may just have to lick my wounds and take this as a VERY expensive "life lesson"...and just get it back in one piece.

So, I present this dilemma for your thoughtful consideration and replies. Take a minute and put yourself in the situation--and perhaps I can find a way to resolve this successfully.

Although it's painfully obvious, I'd also strongly recommend that you avoid contracting for the services of Mr. Pederson or buying his barrels.

(This post been submitted in various appropriate forums--Accurate Reloading, etc.)

Personally i don't think there is a whole lot you can do. You can keep trying to contact him or you can sue him if it is worth the cost to you. You can also report his dealing to the Better Business Bureau in the town or county he does business in and if he is a FFL Dealer you can file a complaint with the ATF. Good luck on you dilemma. Guys like this give everyone a bad name in the gunsmith business. I bet this guy also voted for Obama.

If your state has a 'small claims' court, I would suggest you begin the process. At least you can get back the cost of the barrel, install etc., and then Mark B. can start over with a different barrel maker.. Usually, small claims is rather cheap to use.. I think it's well under a C-note here in TAX HELL WISCONSIN. ...which is about as useless as peeing upwind in a class 4 hurricane.. Worth a try... Oh, so true.. I cringe whenver I hear of these stories because it gives others pause when attempting a rifle build with an unknown/unseen builder....

Tough call. I'm not sure why your rifle was ever shipped to you from Bansner's shop exhibiting that kind of problem, so I partially blame him. I understand you needed the rifle for a hunt.

Moving on to Mr. Pederson. I would not want to take legal action if possible. I'm not exactly sure how long he has been in possession of your rifle but I would compare it his projected wait time for a new barrel. I feel like that gives him reasonable time to manufacture, fit, chamber, install sights, and finish your barreled action if he makes you a priority as a matter of customer service.

If he refuses to interact with you I would try contacting Yavapai, requesting they have him consider contacting you. Sometimes a little peer pressure can be good for you. I don't know where you live but I would consider driving/flying to the shop myself before takeing legal action. If that is not an option for you then you have been backed into a corner and may have to contact the Arizona AG.

Good luck, I've had frustrating experiences with HCR(twice, a personal gun then customer's gun) but was finally able to resolve it peacably.

Jambo,
Years ago I became friends with a local gunsmith. He was particularly skilled at modifying and building custom M1911 pistols. He often would take up to a year to complete work on a pistol. This gentleman was in his 60s, retired, and worked when he felt like it and on whatever gun he felt like working on at that particular moment. For about the last ten years I have occasionally sent firearms to a gunsmith in another state. He does great work but is slow as Christmas and has at times taken a year to return my gun. I know this does not provide you with any advice nor insight into a resolution to your problem. I just thought I would share with you that it seems, to me at least, that often one will have to wait an extremely long time for gunsmithing work to be completed. I think perhaps this is especially true for an out of state customer. In any event good luck to you with whatever you choose to do.

Gents,

Thanks for the replies. 7mmfreak, thanks for the suggestion about contacting Yavapai--I'm already planning on contacting them on Monday--this confirms that it may be one of many alternatives.

As for the time/method patience involved in building a custom rifle--I'm well aware. I felt lucky to get mine done in 18 months. Just not pleased with the results.

And the point of this isn't the time involved anyway. If he said "hey, I'm happy to do it but I won't get to it for 6 months"...then so be it. Yes, I know that the 6 months can then turn into 9, 12, 18 and so on. Seems to be more common than not.

My point is that he's outright lied to me about his progress, has not followed up on his commitment to "get back to me by the end of the week", etc.

Case in point. He told me the barrel was done and would talk to Bansner about their coating process so as to return the rifle in the same finish that it arrived. That was in August. As of two weeks ago, neither Mark or anyone in his shop has heard anything EVER from Mr. Pederson. I provided him with telephone numbers and names in my letter (by the way) if he had any questions at all about what they'd done to insure that the sights were indeed properly mounted.

...and yes, it's slightly disappointing that Bansner's didn't catch it there...but the outcome would be the same nevertheless. The barrel is bad and needs to be replaced.

I understand why Mr. Pederson may be hesitant/reluctant to complete this work--although he promised me that he would.

Consider this: Replacing the barrel requires that it be matched exactly to the existing contour (turned down slightly-post production), removal and replacement of the front and rear sights, barrel band, refinishing the barreled/sighted receiver and then refitting it in Bansner's stock. It's a lot of work.

Hard to prioritize for him it seems--so I'm having to do it for him. Yet, his refusal to engage at all in this process (for the last 3 months +/- ) is what ticks me off and frustrates the hell out of me.

He's not entirely stupid--just incredibly irresponsible and negligent. Again it gives me NO pleasure to air this publicly but it's part of my strategy--hoping that somehow, someway the word will filter down to him that this is now in the public domain and his reputation is at stake. From what I know of this business...reputation equals business.

I guess some may be so busy in their success that they forget how they got there. Sadly, this isn't the first story of this sort and won't be the last.

I've come to hate the entire process and will likely NEVER go the full custom rifle route again...ever. If I was a bench rest shooter maybe, but I'm not. I'm a hunter.

Cheers and thanks again for the forum and allowing some room to vent.

Maybe I missed it but what does Mark Bansner have to say about the whole deal? Seems he should be pressuring Pederson or at least try to alleviate the piss poor barrel issue.

I'm not a 'smith but I would be trying to bring some higher level of satisfaction to the customer. If this means using another make of barrel then so be it.

I know I won't ever recommend a Pederson barrel to anyone after reading this thread.

MtnHtr

If you really want this issue in the public domain,and want to put some teeth into it,file a report with
it will stay there even after it is resolved and is good incentive for the other party to make things right.
Advise him AFTER you've filed a report that you've done so and that you will amend the report after resolution of the issue to reflect his willingness to maintain good customer service.
Read their main page and follow their rules,it's FREE!


good luck.

Bansner only put the sights on, coated it and fit the stock.

The barrel was already on it when he got it. As I wrote earlier, they might have known something was up when they put this sights on but only zero'd the rifle with the scope. BTW--the sights are aligned within 0.001" on the barrel.

Thank GOD,Ive only had 1 bad experience with a gunsmith that didn't live up to his end in building a custom rifle for me.I've had EXTREMELY GOOD LUCK with these Gunsmiths,Randy Selby,DOC'S Gun Shop and my latest is also now a FRIEND.Karl at Kampfeld Custom.He makes the building of a rifle a complete pleasure AND THE FINISH PRODUCT IS 2ND TO NONE.
I hope you get this situation fixed to your satisfaction.I would request my rifle back and have 1 of the many FINE barrel companies out their make a new barrel for me.

I bet Pac Nor could provide better results...............

MtnHtr

Agree with the kudos for Karl Feldkamp. He did the bolt handle on this rifle. Fine work and quick turn-around. Just wish I'd found him 2 years ago...

Would like to have the rifle back in any case. The lesson is $$$ painful $$$ in that I'll be out of the cost of a new barrel, new custom contour, refitting the sights, barrel bands and coating. I figure it's about $1000-1500 MORE than I have into it already.

As for ripoffreport.com, thanks for the tip. I'll follow through for sure. As for letting him know about it...that's the point. I can't contact the guy. Over the last five months I may have gotten his voice mail 3 times. The rest of the time the system tells you the box is full and try another number. No number given...just try somewhere else, i.e., "please go away".

BTW...Just got done contacting/sending letters to his boss at the Junior College where he teaches, AZ Attorney General and BATFE (it turns out his FFL expires on Monday and he might be in for a very rude surprise).

Again I take NO pleasure in any of this. I'm reasonable and will do whatever it takes to get this right. That reads both ways.

Cheers to all.

At this point, I'd either go in person or authorize a FFL holder to act as my agent and demand the rifle back. Sue him for monies paid and what it will cost to be put right.

Even if you win, you may never collect on the judgment, but you'll have the rifle back.

Hunting season is on. I bet he's in no rush to quit his paying jobs to rectify his mistake.

Good luck

I've used, or rather my gunsmith used, the services of Dan Pederson with good results. I purchased a package .458 WM Mauser kit from Gun Broker that upon assembly had problems with the action feeding that could not be repaired. I had already made inletting modifications to the stock and Timney trigger, so I ended up keeping those pieces from the kit. The diagnosis and return process ate up a lot of the time I had alotted for the project before hunting season. I approached my smith who found another action and ordered a barrel from Mr. Pederson. The barrel arrived within a week (standard profile and twist, nothing special). I've been pleased with his services.

I know this doesn't help your situation any, but your situation might be an isolated incident.

I own rentals and have delt with a lot of creeps in my life. Here is my advise. File in small claims court. It does not cost much. Claim the highest amount of $ allowed, usually 5k maybe more in your state. This fella will be served papers by the Sherrif notifiying him when to appear in court. Odds are he won't want to appear and you will get your gun back or he won't appear and you automatically win a judgement against him. I have found judgements to be pretty worthless so I turn the judgement over to collections. They usually want 50% but will negotiate. Eventually he will have to pay to clear his credit record. He won't be given any cedit with this judgement hanging over his head. Do it and good luck. Ken

I suggest you file the report at RR and fax a copy to him like they suggest.You may also want to fax a copy to the same folks you sent letters to.He'll find out one way or another about RR and will have to deal with it to maintain his rep.

I bet he eats babies and doesnt go to church on Sunday as well!!!

Jambo, have you considered asking someone in his vicinity to stop by his shop and pick the rifle up?

This story reminds me of a taxidermist I once took a white tail head and cape for mounting. Guy went out of business, moved out of state and I never heard from him again.

Hope you fare better, and I have to think you will. A judgement and charges against him should shake loose your rifle. Sorry to hear of such stories.

You can see a more indepth discussion and the other side of the story here: http://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/9411043/m/385109679

Thanks, Malm!

My dad always told me that when you've only heard one side of a story, you've always got a lop-sided story........

Ted

Save yourself the click.



Well Jim Ray, you've finally smoked me out of hiding! Just so all of you out there know, I'm only answering the phone on Fridays, until I can get some of my back log out the door, can't talk and work at the same time. I average 40-50 calls a day incoming,and it usually fills the box before noon. I also do not answer the private name/unknown number calls--just too many salesmen out there. My apologies for being so hard to get ahold of.
Mr. Ray, there are a couple of statements made on this forum that bother me greatly.
First, that I've had your rifle since July. The letter that you sent me was dated July 28 and rec'd on the 31st. You and I first talked on August 1. The USPS date stamp on your shipment is August 4th. Your firearm arrived August 11 and is logged in on that day. August 11th to current date doesn't quite add up to 6 months posted here or the 5 months stated in the letter to the Arizona State Attorney Generals Office, Department of Consumer Complaints. On my fingers we're just short of 4 months.
I confirmed on the 12th at the range that the problem that you described was indeed valid. I spent 6 hours on the 13th confirming that Penrod Precision and Bansners had performed their work correctly. Sights in the middle, action squared, throat straight and true,crown square, etc. etc. etc.(Great job guys, I'd let you work on my guns anytime!). Now the conversation in which I agreed that since I could find nothing else wrong, it must be the barrel, and I would replace it, including mounting, chambering, crowning, resetting the sights, rebedding, and refinishing, all at no cost to you.
With this verbal commitment to you why are you stating that I have no interest in repairing or returning your fire arm? I had the new left hand twist barrel on your rifle when we talked in October, at your request for a right hand twist I removed it and built an new barrel. No Questions asked or complaints made to you. I told you I would fix this rifle and I meant it. I suppose I should have told you the 2nd new barrel would add some time to the return. I just assumed that you knew.
Your student investigator did come to the shop. I explained to him where the rifle was in progress. Don't have any idea why he didn't respond to you.
Mr. Ray, Your rifle is reassembled and on its way to Bansners for refinishing. He tells me that it should be back home in a couple of weeks.(his refinisher is going deer hunting this week). It is now hitting the center of the target with the sights set in the center of the base. It's OK. This is not one of lifes expensive lessons. I haven't disapeared, My FFL is good to August 2011, and your rifle is safe and will probably be home before Christmas.

Now, for all of you following this customer relations nightmare, as Paul Harvey would say. Here is the rest of the story.
Mr. Ray did not buy this barrel from me! It was probably purchased from J. Courtney. I did send a barrel to Mr. Courtney with a left hand twist, and Mr. Ray inidicates that he knows Mr. Courtney. It was then sent to Penrod Precision where it was recontoured and installed on a Montana action. From there, it was sent to Bansner for sight installation,and stocking. Now, some of you might at this point be questioning why a shady operator like myself would warranty a barrel for a person that was not the original purchaser, and had been modified by at least two other gunsmiths. The Answer--- Because I believed that it was the right thing to do. Mr. Ray had an obvious problem, And I STAND BEHIND MY PRODUCT AND MY WORK. I may fall down in the customer contact satifaction catagory, but I refuse to leave a customer with less than my best effort a producing a quality product. Bear with me, I'll enumerate on Mr. Rays Expensive Life Lesson.

Jim Ray-- Four months of frustration.

Classic Barrel
1. Tarnished reputation
2. Multiple black eyes on AR Forums
3. 6 hrs diagnostic & 2 range trips $400
4. 1 S/S left hand twist barrel $340
5. 1 S/S right hand twist barrel $340
6. 2 installation charges ($225) $450
7. 1 bedding charge $175
8. reinstall sights and b/b $95
9. freight to Bansners $85
10. refinishing by Bansners not discussed
11. 1 box 416 Rem Ammo $112
12. Freight home to Mr. Ray $???
13. Trouble with AZ Atty Gen
14. Trouble with ATFE
15. Trouble with My Boss at Yavapai
16. Pride in knowing that Mr. Ray's
rifle now shoots correctly PRICELESS

Thank all of you for your patience while I ramble.
Good Nite
Dan Pedersen

P.S. I have two left handed tomato stakes for sale or trade --CHEAP!

Jambo; Lets see your answer to this if you are man enough to
say anything at all. You owe a lot of people appologies.
Take Care!

Mr Pedersen , there are always two sides to every story and yours sounds about right for the problem with this guys rifle. I am looking forward to his reply to your explanation. My hat is off to you for coming on this site and explaining you side of this story.

Although Dan Pedersen has never done any work for me (yet), he has always responded to my e-mail queries in a timely manner. I have not commented until now because Jambo's account didn't seem to jibe with my personal experiences. I know from friends in Arizona who are acquainted with him that he has more work lined up than one person should have to deal with, and that he burns the midnight oil to get things done. I am glad that he took the time to set the story straight.

An excellent post.. Hat's off and bowing low to you CB..

Yeah, I think Jambo needs to reply, and very soon...

Communication: Almost never overrated.....

JPro
Based on assorted half-truths, untruths and omissions from the original poster I suspect the lack of communication might be more along the lines of "Get off my friggin' back! I will call you when I get your rifle done!" Answering the same phone and the same questions the same way repeatedly gets old.
art

I was very pleased with the rebore Dan did for me a couple years ago. Had no problem with communication. Thanks again for the good work Dan. --- Mel

++++++ 1

Makes you want to find a new profession.

Well, sure nice to know the "rest of the story" and see that a "good guy" doesn't unfairly get a bad rap. Nice to know where to go for a new barrel too!

All that said:

This all started when Dan went the extra mile to make someone happy. That's a good thing - and frankly, I'm amazed a manufacturer of a precision product would stand so strongly behiond something from the non-original owner that had been modified twice by different people.

It went sideways when the person being helped appeared to not know what was going on and/or became frustrated.

Based on what we're seeing here - IMO, this could have been avoided by communications, understanding, patience and not over-reacting to a perceived wrong.

One thought - might be good to get a system in place - web/email-based, or an assistant -- to provide updates. A little clicking on a keyboard can cause one way too much grief.

Coldbore,

Once again, I'm reminded that We all live in a two story house.

Please accept my apology for my comments based on the statements of the original poster. Obviously, it all started with him supplying a defective barrel.

As a home improvement contractor, I don't warranty (by contract) any work or delay that follows the installation of customer supplied materials that are later discovered to be insufficient or defective. Additional labor to make the owner supplied material suitable for installation is only performed after the client signs a change order to that effect.

Many clients, both yours and mine, believe they know all there is to know about the materials that go into their build. They buy the items that go into a project themselves to reap airline miles from the credit card they use and to ostensibly save any mark-up(my time+warranty reserve) we apply to such items.

Even when it's been explained and agreed to in writing, somehow, it's all our fault. We should have spent uncompensated hours double checking their purchases, in my case the finish on the cabinets or the uniformity of the tiles purchased at a close-out warehouse (that can't be returned).

During my stint in the gun biz I saw all sorts of owner supplied problems and delays, from bad scopes to "XXX" stock blanks that carved out to "utility".

Many clients have so much emotion invested up in their projects/purchases/decisions. When it all turns out as per their vision they're in the clouds (the rewarding part of our work) and when something goes the other way they look to lay blame elsewhere(the worst part).

Again, my apologies. I should have known better.

Jim

The problem is some people seem to think they are the only ones in the world and everything should be dropped to make them happy. They figure if you can go to a store and buy whatever you want off the shelf, custom work can be done in a likewise manner.

It's telling that after Dan showed how he went above and beyond what could reasonably expected, that the op hasn't had a word to say on the issue.

It's also telling that Dan is gentlemen in the respect to how he does business.

I think there is a misunderstanding here.

I'm not Dan Pedersen, I just cut & pasted from the other thread, to save people from clicking back and forth.

The words are Dan's, not mine.

Sorry if I seemed to mislead anybody!

Phone call, return letter, either would have saved him a lot o hassle

You keep assuming he did not respond in timely and repeated fashion. He may have done just about anything and we would not know it. Continuing to insist the smith is wrong when we truly know almost nothing is ridiculous.

I'm not taking sides in this discussion, but one thing I don't understand about it.

If the rifle was test fired and sighted in, how and why did it leave the last person who worked on it with the sights that far off center?

It looks like someone would have noticed that something was not right if it took that much sight movement to get the desired POI.

Even tho Mr Pederson wrote his side of the story and JB told us his side of the story , I'm still at odds on who is totally telling the whole truth and nothing but the truth. Maybe they both are a little on the guilty side. The truth is, we will never know the whole story about this deal and how it went down.

Jambo shows up to bash a well know smith and barrel maker, then dissapears. 4moths for a barrel job with out having the barrel is pretty damn good. I was thinking it was like 2 years. Pederson should have cut him a check to have someone else do the work, sounds like it would have saved him in the long run.

For those that value their reputation, they'll go out of their way to maintain it. It's one of those things not taught in business school, but sorely lacking in business, government, schools, etc.

The #1 understatement of the year, by far and away..

Bingo!

Technical skill at a trade or profession, and ability to deal with people (including communication), are not always found in the same individual. I believe that is the downfall of many who decide to hang out their own shingle.

It may be not so much a matter of finding a different profession as it is about finding a job where a person can do the technical work while somebody else deals with customers. It applies to gunsmiths, as well as building trades, engineering, and even some medical doctors and lawyers.

Paul

Apropos this topic, I doubt that anybody really believes that "the customer is always right". However, there is another version that is universally true:

The customer may not always be right but he's always the customer.

All of this said, I believe there are times when it's appropriate for a business to "fire the customer". Some customers are so much trouble and so unreasonable that the relationship is a losing proposition for the business.

Paul

Notice how Jambo comes a bashin on Mr. Pederson and then as soon as someone points out that there is another side to the story, he's no where to be found. Who do you suppose is telling the truth???

I think his conspicuous absence speaks for itself. Yep, I think Danny went above and beyond on this one- especially for a guy who wasn't even his customer!

I believe both parties are at fault with this deal and should take 50 % of the blame, because neither party used good business
judgement in this project.

[quote=ColdBore] It was then sent to Penrod Precision where it was recontoured and installed on a Montana action. From there, it was sent to Bansner for sight installation,and stocking.[quote=ColdBore]

Seeing that the barrel was recontoured, I have no idea in hell how Dan is remotely responsible for the sights not being regulated as spinning a finished tube can certainly screw up bore dimensions. [quote=ColdBore]

Jambo, if I were you I'd be KISSING Danny's ass and THANKING him profusely for all that he's doing for you, cause the way I see it he doesn't owe you JACK SQUAT!

I've had Dan do a few different projects, and while he isn't the easiest to get ahold of, he's always bent over backwards to help me out and assure my satisfaction.

So, grow a set, cowboy up, whatever you want to call it and make a couple of public apologies on the web. It's the least you can do and I'd pen Dan a long apology and thank you note and send that certified mail to make sure he gets it.

I hope your new tube shoots lights out!

Goose

My friend Dennis (dennisinaz) alerted me to this thread.

I Danny pretty darn well, and have had him do several barrels for me, both new barrels and rebores. All have been excellent--as have been the barrels of people I referred to Danny. He never promised mine by a certain date, and I just let them arrive when they did, never calling him. They all arived within 6 months, often well inside.

I have worked with a lot of gunsmiths, and know that the good ones will get it done right, as soon as they can. I also know that just about ALL of them are indeed constantly pestered by customers. Most not only ask the same question ("When will my rifle be done?") but many just want to BS for an hour--and often call after-hours.

Gunsmiths deal with this in several ways, but they normally do NOT hire somebody to answer the phone. This is because there just isn't enough money in the business to do that, AND because only the gunsmith himself can truly answer most calls.

I do know one smith who only RETURNED calls during the last two hours of the day. I also know another (a one-man shop, like Danny's) whose phone message was: "Thanks for calling. If you have a job you'd like me to do, please leave a number and I'll call you back. If you're calling to find out about the progess of your firearm, I'll call you when it's done."

I don't know the guy who originally bitched about all this, but it sounds like he got a great deal. It also sounds to me like he's one of those customers who wants to receive a minute-by-minute description of all progress, while the gunsmith is hunched over the lathe. He just might also be one of those people a friend classifies as a Master Of The Universe, who expects everybody else to recognize his special status.

Mule Deer +1. I value gunsmiths for their tool room skills, not for their small talk.

This discussion reminds me of a line from that old Paul Newman movie - cool hand luke. "What we have here gentlemen is a failure to communicate."

Yep, from the road captain in Cool Hand Luke:

"What we've got here is... failure to communicate. Some men you just can't reach."

Grin! (hey, this thread could use one!)

MtnHtr

I just used a new "smith" that I will not return to. I took in a 1896 6.5 x 55 Swede with a near perfect exterior. In my verbal and written instructions, I wanted 1 inch cut off the 29 inch barrel and a new crown(which would have left me with about a 27+ inch barrel), a butter knife bolt handle installed, and drilling and tapping for scope rings.

As the job is a 4 hour drive away, I had a nearby buddy pick it up to the tune of $289. He got it down to me about 3 weeks ago. I got the bolt handle (nice job there, the barrel cut down to 24 inches and recrowned, the rear sight and its mounting sleeve sweated off of the barrel leaving an extremely unsightly 4-inch section of bare metal in front of the receiver (it will have to be reblued), and the requested drill/tap for scope rings. I was not happy about the lost barrel length and the recently bared metal.

The work took a full nine months longer than the estimated 3 months, and it was my initiative that eventually found out the job was finished. I truly wish I had been on the phone more often to reinforce my desires. I will obviously be looking elsewhere to either acquire a new barrel or get this one blued.
An unhappy camper! 1Minute

I don't understand all this hacking at a man who simply wants his rifle finished correctly.

I wonder, how much time does it take smith to make a phone call at the end of his day??? It is called �Simple Customer Courtesy�. Take too much time out of the smiths day? Maybe he needs to hire an assistant, or, perhaps cut back on the work he takes in, but make the damm call.

I for one, appreciate this airing of the problems communicating with this smith, and certainly will not be using his services in the future.

Regardless of how well he does his work, if he can�t take to time to make a simple phone call to a customer, he is not the guy for me.

Take this as you will,

Richard

Meatco, obiviously you don't have a job that serves the public directly. One has to make a living and that can't be done on the phone.Rick.

You are just the kind of customer that Danny doesn't want! I think he agrees this wasn't handled properly but is not happy about the slanderous lies that this joker has spread on several forums as well as to the AZ attorney general's office.

There is a reason he hasn't resurfaced in all this!!

Turns out, he hasn't paid his bill at Bansner's either!!

Yep- two sides to every story!