I just purchased a walnut stock that has been stained but unfinished. I've got Linseed oil and was going to use that to finish the stock. I was advised to get a polyurethane, satin type finish and save myself a lot of time and work.

I've finished a couple of stocks with Linseed oil and they turned out ok. As I recall I'd rub in a coat let it dry, hit it with 0000 steel wool and repeat the process for about four coats.

Is the polyurethane finish that much easier and better? Will it look as good or similar to an oil finish?

If I decide to stick with Linseed oil is there a better way to do it than the way I recall doing it? I might have forgotten something. Thanks.

Oil has been the traditional stock finish for a very long time because it looks good and it is easy to apply. If the rifle will not be used in extreme conditions oil will work fine. I use a sealer of epoxy under the oil, but it is more work.

Adding polyurethane to oil will make it a tougher finish and it will still repair easily, the stain being the only question about that. I cannot understand the concept of staining woods. It is what it is, IMO.

Polyurethane by itself is not going to look anything like as good as oil. And do not buy satin or matte finishes. Matting agents are added to the finish to kill the gloss. It is usually silica and it does nothing positive for the finish and weakens it. Use gloss and break the finish back with rottenstone or some other polish to get the desired look.

Tru-Oil is not a bad choice and is an oil finish with poly resins added. I usually mix up my own if I am going to use any quantity of finish. Buy a tiny can of good oil-based poly and cut it with the oil.

Lots of poly in the beginning and more oil as you get more coats on. Apply heavy and allow it to dry for 10-15 minutes and rub DRY with a clean soft rag. The extra poly early will fill pores faster.

Allow it to cure for a month or so after you are satisfied and buff out with rottenstone on a felt rag with mineral oil as a carrier.

Do not use steel wool on a stock, ever. Tiny particles of steel get caught in the finish and later they will rust and create tiny freckles. Might not be seen with the naked eye, but it affects the luster and the finish color quite a bit.
art

Oil finishes do not slow water movement

You're quitting about 10 coats too early...

Ditto what Sitka deer said.

Of late, I've been experimenting with high quality Spar Varnishes as substitutes for poly in "oil" finishes. The reason being spar varnish cures to a relatively elastic consistency (as compared to polyurethane) which I wonder might not be better on a wooden stock destined for inclement weather. I guess having been in the marine woodworking industry for over a decade got me thinking along those lines.

For indoor only projects such as table tops and chess boards that get a varnish finish, I use Epiphanes gloss to build coats (typically 7-8) blocking between coats. Then I apply 1-2 coats of poly for the final coat. Provides a hard outer layer with a softer- shock resistant- core. Kind of like case hardening steel. The earliest projects I finished like that are holding up beautifully after 11 years, so long term prognosis is good.

So far, the stocks I have varnished were done with straight Epifanes, no poly.

For an "oil finish" I mix equal parts tung oil/Epifanes varnish/mineral spirits. Use as most all directions for "oil finishes" dictate.

Rarely do I use straight oil- tung or BLO- as Sitka deer said, poor moisture barrier. Do use it for touch up or if the situation rquires it.

I really like pure Tung oil for looks and better weather resistance than Linseed oil. Beware of "tung oil finishes" whick are mainly varnish or poly with anywhere from a little to no real Tung oil.
Jed

Tung oil is anything but magic... There is zero difference between tung and linseed aside from source... And because of that manufacturer's may substitute either... and do. Neither is any good at waterproofing, period.

Generally better finsihes have less oil and more resin... All use a pretty fair oil cut for ease of application.

All oil finishes are oils, resins, waxes and solvents. Solvents are cheap and resins are expensive. Oils and waxes are in between. Adding oil makes it easier to apply and repair, but not as tough or weatherproof.
art

Sitka deer, have you experimented with any of the water based poly type finishes such as those used on hard wood flooring?

Yes, including quite a bit on floors. We have a bunch of solid hickory flooring finished with Diamondthane floor finish. It is beyond awesome for that task and many others...

For stock work it is a bit brittle on edges. Oil finishes would just crush where the surface film of the water-based polys fractures.

Repairs are much harder than oil, but easier than most varnishes due mostly to the lack of yellow in the finish.

For waterproof it is good, but not as good as some varnishes and way short of epoxy.

It is a little harder to apply than oil-based varnish/poly and the water can cause swelling issues that take considerable time to resolve. Cutting with water to make it easy to spray exacerbates that.

The only firearm place I really think it belongs is on a laminated stock. The extra resins in the "wood" reduce water absorption and stability issues.
art

Thanks, I've used the minwax version on a table and it has held up better than when I previously used the oil version. I liked how quick it dried and how fast you could re-coat. I just wondered how it would do on a gunstock. I thought about just finishing a piece of scrap walnut and placing it out in the weather to see how it would do, just curious.

The best I have found for a stock finish has been the Dalys Pro-Fin. I wish more people understood about varnishes for stock finishes.

ProFin

Profin is probably the best varnish out there... But it is expensive and hard to locate. It is not the easiest finish to use either. But it is the best in service of the many I have tested.

On the last 3 stocks I've done I used Daly's Benn Matte and am very happy with the results. Like Sitka said, it can be hard to locate, I ordered it direct from Daly's.

Most of the top professional stockmakers I know use a spar-varnish type of oil-urethane combo anymore. This is not only more water-resistant than oil, but easier to work with. Urethane finishes have to be re-applied while the previous coat isn'te entirely dry, otherwise the next layer doesn't stick very well to the previous. The oil/urethane combo helps bond the next coat, with time between the coats becoming less critical.

They do not use a matte spar varnish, for the reasons Sitka stated. They use a gloss varnish, and sand or fine-steel-wool the finish so it doesn't shine.

DALY'S is available in Daly's Wood Finishing Products
Daly's Paint
3525 Stone Way Ave. N.
Seattle, WA 98103
Phone: 206-633-4200
Toll Free: 1-800-735-7019

At 11.50 a pint it won't break the bank. Or I could be wrong and maybe it will. What would a pint of True Oil cost?

After I fill the grain, I do it like a French polish and use a inner and outer cotton patch (as in bore patches) The inner to hold the liquid, the out patch to rub and coat the surface.

It is vary easy to control with this method. Try it, you might like it. This is a popular finish with Guild members in the Pacific North West.

I have a small paper bag size full of alkanet root soaking in my gallon can at all times, sure makes for a vary nice English red color, and works vary nicely for that Winchester color look.

Sixbits, could you clarify that, especially the soaking part? Soaking in what?

Thanks to you and the others who posted helpful info.

Paul

Very interesting topic here!
Sitka Deer and others, can you summarize your favorite stock finish brand or "secret recipe" for those of us out here?
Also, on touch ups, would you try to "match the hatch" as a temporary fix and save the makeover as a winter project?
Thanks to all in advance.

Soak the alkanet root in the Pro Fin oil can to make a color change that will make for a pleasing red color.


Soak the inner patch in Pro Fin and squeeze out the excess, put the smaller soaked patch inside the larger patch that is dry and bring all of the larger patch together, As you rub the wood surface a small amount will leak through the outside patch and give a vary thin surface coating.

The above is the same way you do a French polish. The difference is you are using a different wetting agent.

bigwhoop
I always use a slow-cure epoxy base coat and usually add an oil finish. The oil finish is often Tru-Oil, but any good oil-based varnish with oil added works well. It is extremely forgiving to apply and repairs easily.
art

375
There are a couple potential problems with your plan, IME&O. First, buy oil-based finish in small quantities. It does not keep well and will cause curing issues and eventual hardness issues if "aged."

Part of that may be just prejuidice because I dislike coloring finishes and wood. Like adding Bass to music just because you can or like bass does not make it better... A taste thing that has always left me shaking my head.

French Polish is done with a solvent-based finish and it leaves a polished surface but requires tremendous effort and time to do properly. Using an oil finish for French Polishing will work, because you will be laying down finish in thin layers, but I do not see any advantage over the standard "apply, dry 10-15, and wipe down" that has been used forever.

Having done a lot of French Polish it simply does not make sense to me to do an oiled stock that way. It is at best a lot of extra work without additional benefit...
art

Ok, now what is brand name of a slow-cure epoxy base coat - polyurethane? Step 2 you add some True Oil to "oil based" varnish - is this polyurethane?
Hey, I just figured out how to add the quote deal!!!

Negative on poly=epoxy...
I use regular epoxy glues for finish. Industrial Formulators in Toronto happens to make the ones I have been using lately, G-1 and G-2, 24 and 48 hour cure respectively. A quick check in the search function should help you find it.

Got to run to dinner... more later.
art

Polyurethane varnish is an oil finish (in this case) with lots of polyurethane resin. Tru-Oil is an example of an oil-based finish with quite a bit of poly, but not enough to call it varnish. Adding oil to poly will give you a product similar to Tru-Oil.

Tru-Oil works fine, but it has a couple issues... It is frequently "old" right off the shelf and is prone to curing and thickening issues.

Sushi was great, but I ate way too much!
art

Thanks Sitka.
Sushi? No way unless its baked or fried.

Art: this is not my plan, this was recommended to me by two well known Guild members.

"There are a couple potential problems with your plan, IME&O. First, buy oil-based finish in small quantities. It does not keep well and will cause curing issues and eventual hardness issues if "aged."

Never had any ageing problems when I store cans of finish, but then I learned long ago to store cans on the top and give it and air seal, only air in the can is the gap. That is nothing new as folks have been doing this since metal cans came out. Storing paint cans that hold oil base paints.

Did you notice I wrote after the gain is filled? This is a much faster way, doing the "French like Polish" to apply the coats than a brush, you'll spend less time knocking down each coat between applications.

This has worked vary well for me, that I do it no other way now.

I have simply seen more ridiculous finish applications from Guild members than all other woodworkers combined. Were it not for the incredibly forgiving nature of oil finishes they would be far more obvious.

French Polish is a finish system that has been well understood for centuries. How and why it works is pretty clear. Oil is used as a lubricant in regular French Polishing. The how and why are understood. Using just oil is not much different from the rubdown given to oil finishes after some curing has occured.

Sanding slurry finishing is the best example of a common guild headshaker. No one has ever shown me a test board with a slurry finish next to a straight finish that was not screamingly obvious.

I have read many systems from many guild members and know more than a few. I have never heard of any using an oil based French Polish.

Turning the cans of oil upside down is not the issue and does not stop the aging of oil. When oil starts to polymerize the linking is very gradual. It requires oxygen and generates heat in the process. When air enters the can it displaces the nitrogen blanket the finish makers usually put in the can.

It is impossible to stop the introduction of oxygen, so some manufacturers use a variety of "stablizers" to slow the linking. They act as oxygen scrubbers but need to evaporate fairly soon after swallowing the oxygen or they can do bad stuff to the finish.

Using old finish is one of the most common mistakes folks make and it can really bite them when the result is a gummy finish that will never solidify. Oil is too cheap to risk a stock finish on when there is no need...
art

OK, you must be correct and I bow to your wisdom. What a fool I have been to come on a form and express and opinion and take a chance it might be in conflict, to yours.


FOAD:
Sitka deer

I too have used an epoxy base coat/grain filling operation before switching over to "oil" for the balance of the finishing schedule. Works pretty good and I suspect it goes a long way toward sealing the wood. I used West System 207, mainly because we always had some kicking around the shop.

375
WOW!!!!!!!

Okay, if that is what you want to say... I was gentle... Your background (lack thereof actually) in finishing is obvious. What you are suggesting to folks is not going to help them. I do not feel I jumped on you or your lack of knowledge here previously.

I was not questioning your opinion. I was questioning your application and storage methods. Note I did it in drive-by fashion without taking the time to explain why you are wrong.

I said nothing about the chemistry of finish to explain why oxygen is bad in the can... nothing about why oil French Polish makes no sense... No, I just drove by and called you names and swore at you... Or did I?

Feel free to correct anything wrong I have posted here. Feel free to go back through almost 7 years of me posting finish information here and see what you find. Maybe it will come to you that with your knowledge base you should be asking advice... not giving it.
HAND!
art

gnoahhh
I know I should know West 207 but I think it is a thinner product with some UV stablizers used as a sealant? Not sure if I have used it before or not. I know I have tested it for weather-proofness and it does seal the wood better than just about anything... Only Superglue is in the same class for watertight...
art

Yeah, Art, West System 207 is a lot thinner. Perhaps as much as 50% of the viscosity of their 205/206. UV protection is excellent- it was developed (and used by us) as a first coat sealer for exterior marine wood headed for a varnish schedule. I've used/witnessed it's use on (literally) tons of teak and mahogany and I honestly feel it extends the life of a marine exterior varnish finish. Downside, I suspect it would be a bitch to remove if one needed to go back to bare wood. Another downside is cost. Yet another may be, depending on one's point of view, it's color which is decidedly yellow and darkens as the hardener oxidizes with time. As with other epoxies, go with light coats to lessen the chance of gassing-out bubbles forming as it cures.

I've used CA to soak into soft wood inside of the heads of old shotgun butts, but never as a sealer for the whole exterior of a new stock. Is it a viable thing?

When mixing any kind of "oil" finish, I just mix up what I figure I'll need for that project, I just can't seem to find any truly air tight containers that stay that way for repeated opening and closing. Tried the marbles in the bottom of the can trick and the nitrogen aerosals, but nothing beats just mixing a little bit at a time. (Another reason to mix your own. That pint can of Minwax brought home from Home Depot and used to do a stock or two will have probably soured before the third or fourth one. Even though it still smells and feels the same as when new, the polymerization has started and it won't be as effective as when new.)

Well, sorry for running on!
Gary

CA has been used by quite a few Guild members and it makes a very acceptable finish all by itself. Paul Dressell uses it quite a bit. He warned me the stuff shrinks the wood several thousandths and edges need be held a little proud.

So I tried it and it does pull the wood down, or in, but seems like it does it more at corners than on flats if that makes sense. I have been meaning to use it for a stock and just do not have the guts, yet...
art