I have a model 7 .223 that I am thinking about re-barreling and one caliber I am considering is 257 roberts. Will this work?

Dave

Bolt face not the same, .223=.378, .257=.473.

so I'd proly have to go .243 or .308...and if I go .308 I'd have to have my little girl shoot reduced recoil loads.

Thanks for the info.

Dave

Head diameter of the .243 and the .308 is also .473.

I have a model 7 .223 that I am thinking about re-barreling


Condider a 6x45 or 6x47. Low recoil and accurate. Otherwise trade into a model seven with a .473 bolt face.

I have a 257 Robts built on a 700 S/A BDL action. Sweet shooting, tack driving rifle. If I were to do it again I'd give serious consideration to using a L/A and adding a magazine block, so that the heavier bullets (117s) could be seated out further, but feeding would remain reliable. 100gr or less, the S/A is fine.

Right now I'm contemplating a 6.5 to take the Roberts place - .260, 6.5 x 284, or possibly a 6.5 WSM.

I would not want a .257 or a 7x57 on a short action..I want both on a 30-06 length action..

Ray and I disagree about this, at least about the .257. The 7x57 needs at least a 3.1" magazine, but the .257 was designed as a 2.8" overall-length cartridge from the get-go, and works fine in a short action. I have owned a bunch of them, and 2 right now, and the supposed "advantage" of a long action with 115-120 grain bullets amounts to about a 2% (theoretical) increase in muzzle velocity, or about 50 fps with heavier bullets, which means zip in the field. In reality thye variations between different barrels will be that much.

I have always been able to get 2900+ with 115-120 grain bullets even from the short actions. The published +P data will do it these days. If extra velocity means that much to you, why not just get a .25-06 or .257 Weatherby? Those will get a LOT more velocity out of a long action than seating the bullet out on a .257.

The other factor is that standard .257 reamers (and all factory ammo) are set up with a throat for 2.8" ammo. You can get the throat lengthened, but why? Get a .25-06 and an extra 150-200 fps without leaning on the poor little Bob.

I have built 257 Roberts on Rem 700 SA's and Standard Mausers (Obendorf). In my opinion, both work fine. I tend to stay with 100 Partions or 110 accubonds on the heavy end. I would build a Roberts on whatever you want.

My only question would be if the box length on a Model 7 and a Model 700 are the same? I'm not sure?

ddj

257 Roberts same as a 6mm Rem in length, both work better with a long action.

The reason is simple, as the rifle is fired the leade grows. You need to be able to keep seating the bullet out further and further to "chase" the lands to maintain the "sweet spot" in seating depth.

I have had numerous 700's in 6 Rem and they ended up being single shots.

For a guy that shoots 30 rounds a year on deer, extreme accuracy may not be an issue.

Be darn sure to take heed, look before you leap. The very best 6 mm Rem I owned was on a long action...257 Roberts is the same parent case, which is the 7x57.

Based on my limited experience with 3 .257 Roberts rifles this makes very good sense. One was a short action, the other two were on long actions. All functioned smoothly. I personally wouldn't agonize about action length. My inclination is to focus more on the quality of the action, barrel, and 'smithing work that puts it all together if either length is suitable for the cartridge. Mule Deer is spot-on about performance of the cartridge.

The others have pretty much said it. I'll vote "it doesn't matter" on long or short, at least not really in favor of a short if you are going with a x57 case. I have an M77 25-06 that I'm going to set back and rechamber in Better Bob, the long action or short action is not a deal breaker with me. If I have a long action and a hankering, the couple ounces really don't matter, nor does the couple tenths in potential accuracy from the "stiffer" action.

I love these threads! (Please note I have absolutely ZERO experience with a SA 257Roberts)


Short action ...



Long action ...

But if I have a long action and want to shoot those bullets I'll do it with a 25-06.

No need to add a magazine block. My 700 long action (no block) feeds perfectly with long bullets.



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That's right, but most folk who buy or build a 257Roberts wants something a bit different and don't want a 25/06.

I mostly shoot 100gr Hornadys in mine, but have used the longer ABs with good results. I don't need the extra velocity of a bigger case.

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I'm just stirring the pot. I think the Roberts is cool at either length. And to be truthful I have an old long action 700 that may become a 257 just because I like the cartridge and I want to experiment with a short barrel.

As to the original OP question revolving around a 223 bolt face, what would be the best little gun there?

I've heard great things about the 6x47 but have no personal experience.

SuperCub, well, it just depends on which "short action" you are talking about! I just now roughly measured the mag box in a 7mmWSM Model 70 Classic (short action) and came up with about 3.03". I also have a Model 70 Classic .243 Win, which I bought some years ago, just in case I got bored and wanted to build a Roberts, and came up with around 2.85". The .243 however, has a mag block, which can be removed, which looks like it would then give about a 3.05" magazine, roughly.

Having said all that, I feel a Roberts is just fine in even a 700 short-action. We have a 700 Mountain Rifle (short-action) in a Roberts, which I got for one of my sons probably 15 years ago, or longer, which is a sweet rifle. Mucho better than the 700 Classics (long-action) in the Roberts, which we also have, IMHO.

That's why these threads are so much fun. Both sides of the argument are right.

I've never used one on a short action, so in the end my opinions aren't worth all that much.


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Your photos were interesting.

Perhaps even more interesting is that the bullet base sticking down into the case doesn't make much difference in case capacity. At least not enough to make any substantial difference in muzzle velocity.

According to my calculations, seating a .257's bullet out an extra .27" (as in your photo) results in an increase in powder capacity of 6.8%. This means a potential increase in muzzle velocity, at the same pressure, of 1.7%, or about 50 fps in a typical 120-grain load. This is according to the 1/4 rule, which states that any increase in powder capacity results in 1/4 that much increase in muzzle velocity, at the same pressure. Which is aout as much as we gain or lose between 22" and 24" barrels. It's there, but not much.

Not that adding powder room and barrel length can't gain something. I once owned a Ruger No. 1B in .257 with a throat so long that only 115-120 grain bullets could be seated anywhere near it. In that rifle 3100 fps was possible with a 115, but it also had a 26" barrel. And 3100 with a 115 is pretty much crusing speed for a .25-06.

This is a "classic" cartridge......right?

Then spend the extra bucks and build it on a "classic" action, IMO. Find a Czech VZ-24 or a FN-98 action.

Ol' John..(still at play in the fields of the bewildered and loving it.)

Or a Mexica Mauser, "short" Montana 1999, or one of those new classics, the Model 20 NULA. All of which have at least 3" magazines and won't get you anything more out of the round, but will make some people feel better.

The 7X57 (parent of the .257R) was built on an intermediate length action by the Mauser factory for its commercial models. I have one in the safe that I keep telling myself I am going to use as the donor for a .257...jim

I just bought a Peruvian 1935 in either 30-06 or 7.65x53, the seller wasn't sure, built by FN. Is that an intermediate length action like the FN 24/30?

Jeff

I'm currently putting together a matched pair of rifles in 257 and 7x57 on 1942 vintage Swedish 38s for a Norwegian bachelor farmer friend. They're getting the Dayton-Traister cock-on-opening kits, Timney or Bold triggers, and A&B 21" barrels from MidwayUSA. He likes the Swedish Mausers and buys nearly every sporterized 1 that he comes across for less than $200. Seems like every time that I stop by his place, I leave with a couple of them in the truck and a wish list for how he wants them worked on. When the current rifles are done, he'll have Sweds in 22-250, 6mm Rem, 250-3000, 257 Bob, 6.5x55 (x11), 7x57, 300 Savage, 8x57 (x6), and 35 Remington.

Jeff

The 1935 Peruvian is standard length M98. The 1909 is intermediate.

There is no reason to put a 257 in a 30-06 action. Just build a 25-06 and be done with it. Or buy a Vanguard in 257 WB....you can always download it.

I agree ......

Way back when, I read the article about the 257 by Ken Waters and how he expounded on the virtues of a 3" 257Roberts. I formed my opinions based on that and not on any personal experience, so it was only natural that I used the long action I had on hand and requested it have a 3" OAL when chambered. I personally don't like to have a bullet sit down too far into the case and the couple extra ounces that a long action weighs is worth it for me to over come this.

If I wanted a lighter lightweight 25 cal, I'd probably go to a short action 700 ADL with a 21" bbl (MR contour) in a McMillan Edge chambered for 250AI.

These debates are pretty much "chicken or egg" debates. Both sides are right.

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I built a 257Roberts because I wanted a 257Roberts , not a 25/06. I don't need (or want) that much velocity. The long action is perfect for my needs as is the short action for others.

For the average deer hunter, the 257 is a well rounded and efficient cartridge as is, plus it is a lot of fun to shoot without burning much powder or enduring much blast. Were I live, 3100fps with a hundred grain Hornady is lots. Most 257Roberts owners recognize these virtues and and will pass over the faster 25s because of them.

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I like to seat the heavy 120 gr. bullets .257 deep in my case and get more powder space and I get quite a bit of velocity advantage and I will argue that all day with anyone, but it's not necessary, it suits me and thats the bottom line...My 257s, 7x57s are all set up like that. It usually takes a long action to do this..With a pre 64 M-70 you can just substitute a 30-06 box as it already has the long throat and some Mauser also. This works great with some cases and not so much with others but any cartridge on the 7x57 case improves well according to my chronograph, also the 250-3000...those two case also gain more advantage in velocity than any of the Ackely IMP. according to Ackley..

I like to seat the heavy 120 gr. bullets .257 deep in my case and get more powder space and I get quite a bit of velocity advantage and I will argue that all day with anyone, but it's not necessary, it suits me and thats the bottom line...My 257s, 7x57s are all set up like that. It usually takes a long action to do this..With a pre 64 M-70 you can just substitute a 30-06 box as it already has the long throat and some Mauser also. This works great with some cases and not so much with others but any cartridge on the 7x57 case improves well according to my chronograph, also the 250-3000...those two case also gain more advantage in velocity than any of the Ackely IMP. according to Ackley..

Ray,

How can you "seat the heavy 120 gr. bullets deep in my case and get more powder space" ?

Short action! If you want to shoot longer cartridges, use a 25-06 in a long action.

I think Ray is saying that he seats the bullets no deeper than the neck / shoulder junction, leaving everything else for powder. If I am misunderstanding him I'm sure he will correct me.

I understand if you want a 257 BOB rather than a hotter 25. If so there is no reason for a long action. Find a minty Remington 722 and you'll have one of the most accurate rifles ever to leave a factory. In fact ANY 722 or 721 is a far better rifle than than its successor. Little things like cut rifling, a real blue job and an adjustable trigger that really adjusts and an action as smooth as greased kitty litter, keep me buying them.

721 AC 300 H&H, kills whatever it is shot at since 1952!

Granted my .257 is an Ackley Improved, but I built it on a long action, just so I could seat the bullets out where I could take full advantage of the powder capacity in the short case. Yes, I basically have a .25/06, same ballistics but with less powder, and I have something that is unique, and that is more important with that paticular rifle.

Jeff,

Measure the length between the guard screws and see if you get standard length or shorter...jim

If I remember the last run of the 700 classic in 257 Robts was on a long action.

Craigster,
????????? I seat a 7mm bullet .284 in the case that is one 7mm caliber into the case, about half way down the neck..that requires a long magazine box, and a long throat in your chamber.

On a 257 Robts I will seat the bullets .257 deep into the case and again that equates to one caliber deep..

It is basically the same as improving the caliber without blowing the shoulder out and without having to rechamber some guns..

BTW a Short action Mod. 722 Remington in .257 Roberts can be lengthened by substituteing a Rem 721 30-06 or 270 magazine box..thats a pretty simple, inexpensive fix..Also applies to the pre 64 Mod. 70 Winchesters..

Mr. Atkinson, Are you saying that a magazine box for for a Remington 721 long action will interchange with a box for a Remington 722 short action?????