I have a chance to pick up a sporterized German (Loewe Berlin) manufactured Spanish Mauser from a local shop. The rifle has been set up as a hunting rifle, with a fixed 4x scope mounted on 2pc Weaver bases. Bolt and safety have been repositioned to clear the scope, and the barrel has been cut/recrowned at 21.5". Here's my question, without actually having a set of go/no go gauges, how can I check headspacing on the barrel? I would like to pick up the rifle as a truck gun for deer season, but only if the barrel is still in shooting condition. Any suggestions?

Ask the local shop if they will check the headspace for you, or, see if they will allow you to let a gunsmith of your choice check it for you. That's the best way. If they say it is for sale as is, walk away from it.

An old gunsmith/tool and die machinist showed me a "poor boy" way to check headspace without gauges......it works, but it's not exactly precise.

Remove the extractor from the bolt.....using a new piece of brass, place a couple of layers of scotch tape over the case head and trim to fit.....keep adding layers until the bolt won't close....he suggested that if the bolt closed on more than 3 layers, the headspace was out of spec........

Like I said, not exact, but it will give you an idea.....

Extractor and firing pin, I suspect?

Yep, I forgot to mention the firing pin needs to be removed too.

With a mauser putting the safety in the center locks the
firing pin out of operation. The extractor has nothing to
do with the measurement. Put a NEW CASE under the extractor
and insert the bolt. Add tape until you can just feel the
shoulder touch. Tape runs around 0.002 in, you can mike it
if you want a better measurement. This is a measurement of
the headspace with that particular case.

Just relating how HE did it.....like I said, he removed the extractor and firing pin.....

It continually never ceases to amaze me how people will demand to try out most used things they buy, such as cars, ski doos, motorcycles, etc., but will buy guns without shooting them.

If I were buying used from a shop, not only would I insist that I be able to have the rifle properly checked for headspace, but also that I be allowed to shoot it.

It may have good headspace, but could have bad or poor rifling, or other problems. Especially on an older and possibly hard used gun.

Good luck!

Good luck with that!!

Headspace gauges are cheap and really the correct way to check.

If most gun buyers made that same insistence it would become common practice!!

Kevin,

Let's say that during the test firing, for whatever reason, the gun "kabooms", causing injury or damage to the shooter. Who's going to be held responsible and/or liable? The person who tested the gun or the shop owner who let him test fire the gun? I'm guessing the shop owner. I'm sure the shooter would have little trouble finding a lawyer willing to file a damage claim and attempt to sue the crap out of the shop owner. Am I wrong?

I think the shooter would accept "assumption of some risk", just as a buyer would accept assumption of some risk. Once something is so far removed from its manufacture, and has been in commerce for a long period of time, the risk falls more and more on the user - i.e. the first time you shoot a suspect looking gun, do it with a string and stand 15 feet away!!!!!!!!!!

You might get your money back though. There are certain warranties for a particular purpose, and if the gun's purpose is to shoot, and it cannot shoot, then a warranty for that particular purpose should be available, unless, of course, it has been legally waived.

Thank you Lord for Kevin, it felt good to laugh!

The Doctrine of Assumption of Risk is an affirmative defense which, when applicable, operates to absolve a defendant of liability for having created an unreasonable risk. In the absence of an express agreement, an individual does not assume the risk of harm arising from another's conduct unless he knows of the existence of the risk and appreciates its unreasonable character.

The issue in a used gun case would be whether the seller had any control over how the user used the gun, and whether the buyer used the gun in an improper way, or took an unreasonable risk - i.e. assumed the risk.

Many states have done away with the doctrine and replaced it with contributory negligence, which basically means that a judge or jury decides how much at fault each party was, based on the evidence.

Of course, one should be very careful of any dealings with Malm.

That's a little bit defamatory don't you think there counselor? And you wasn't near fast enough on your edit.

is that musings from 'mamby pamby land' or have you just never bought a used gun?

musing from mamby pamby land.

Is every shop supposed to have a rifle range? Is the shop supposed to sell it to you, do a legal transfer, and then take it back if you are unable to shoot straight? On a consignment gun, is the shop supposed to run escrow for you and the buyer? Is the shop supposed to let you hunt for a day or two and then take the gun back due to a bogus complaint?

The questions are endless, I suspect the answers will be mindless.

The mans question seemed to be 'how to check headspace WITHOUT gauges'. When I was in gunsmith school we were told that Remington ammunition was generally sized to minimum standards and Winchester was sized to maximum. To headspace using a new factory loaded round,pick Remington. Remove the cocking piece /firing pin on the rifle renedering it as safe as possible. Insert the Remington loaded round and gently close the bolt. Resistance should be felt about 1/8"-1/4" before fully closed. This would be considered near minimum headspace. Have no idea that this still applies to Remington ammo. Without any doubt the only PROPER way is with the correct gauges. I used this method only once to check a 6.5x54MS that I had no gauges for but did have some factory loaded rounds except in this case they were RWS. Again I would state - THE ONLY PROPER WAY IS WITH THE PROPER GAUGE

If a person is going to use a new case and a shim to check headspace, then it might behoove them to at least get themselves a case gauge to make sure the case is within spec. Or just buy the correct gauge and be done with it. If that shop will send the gun here I will check the headspace for you for free, plus return shipping of course.

Well, he did say that he was musing from mamby pamby land.

Is this a Mauser 93 chambered in "308"?

I'd be real careful about what ammo you shoot in it if it's a 93, even if headspace checks out fine.

Headspace can be problematic on 308's chambered back in the 50's. You may get a "no-go" to "go", but a "field gauge" will not go. IF you're handloading and not setting the shoulder back, this slightly "excessive" headspace may not be a real problem. If the Field gauge "go's", you should go, too.

You should not check headspace with any manufacturers ammo. When the ammo manufacturer makes their tooling it is to produce ammo to the SAAMI minimum dimensions. When the tooling wears to the SAAMI maximum dimensions it is then replaced. One never knows where the ammo falls in the tolerence spane without proper equipment.

Headache

As I said a shim will tell the headspace WITH THAT CASE.
Which is good information to have with a used gun and new
factory ammo because that is what you will be shooting.