I have a 1982 Vanguard Deluxe in 7RM that won't shoot for sh*t and want to rebarrel it. I've tried a variety of hand loads and this thing won't do better than 2.25"@100. If the throat is shot out of it would it be obvious to a smith? Realistically what am I looking to spend on this in total with a sporter contour barrel if this is the case?

Little less then the gun is worth.
Usually around $150 plus the barrel is about average. may be more or less in your neck of the woods.

I think the Vangard is a metric thread ( the Howas are) most smiths won't/can't thread this. $150 to thread, chamber and crown would be a bargain even on a standard thread.

It is a metric thread. 26mmX 1.5mm pitch.
It can be cut on an english lathe that has the capability to cut a 17 TPI.
it is only .0002" difference per revolution. or .0034" over one inch. typical thread engagement on a bolt rifle is right around 5/8" so very little issue.

If a smith can't cut a metric thread not due to equipment issues. i.e. he don't know how. Find someone else obviously he ain't willing to learn either.

I cut metric threads a few times a month. I change the gearing in my lathe, set the gear box and go. You just need to leave the half nut engaged the entire time, reverse the machine to get back to where you start.
That can be a problem if you are running on single phase machinery.

KL is correct.

It is a metric thread. It is also a 55 degree rather than a 60 degree thread. Just grind a different tool up.

They are really put together tight. I thought I'd have to relieve the shoulder to unscrew the one I took apart.

Never heard of using 17 TPI. A lot of machines won't cut true metric gears. I have change gears but no idea if I can cut 17 TPI.

Maybe, if there were such a thing.

Changing gears and cutting metric threads is pretty straight forward but does require some thoughtful planning on where to begin and end each pass. Foot brakes, jog buttons, dial indicators and the ability to walk and chew gun at the same time can be helpful when doing metric threads on a machine with an inch lead thread who's half nuts can't be disengaged between passes.

Nicely put!

Oh lord..... Ok on a machine that is set up to cut metric threads properly, not the red neck short cut i suggested as a back up. You can put the machine in reverse flip the tool holder around and cut from left to right on the back side. This gets the tool off the part at the end of each cut. Then you back the tool out reverse the direction again (forward) and stop the machine close to your thread relief. dial back in, hit reverse (true reverse) and keep going.

There is more then one way to cut a thread you just need to think about it. Working around the features your machine doesn't have is the key.
And there are machines out there that will cut 17 TPI. Our lathe at work had the ability. and a CNC can cut any thread pitch you like. and a CNC lathe is more common then people think.
My new machine has change gears and a foot brake. So I can cut a true metric thread I just can't disengage the lead screw but I also have three phase and can instantly reverse my machine as well.

Wonder what Weatherby will rebarrel it for.Just thinking.

Off subject a little, but why doesn't anyone thread actions and barrels with a tap and die?

it's all about how much effort it take to cut to full depth in one pass, and keeping stuff aligned.
Taps and dies are good tools to have but I feel are completely unsuited for putting new threads on an action.. At least in the Gunsmiths shop. Machines are not rigid enough to do it properly. So you end up with crooked threads

Not saying it can be done but with the set up involved, the potential to screw up the job. The level of control you have with single point method. It just doesn't make a bunch of sense to me to use a tap or die.

Hell I don't even agree with using a die of a muzzle brake.

Call them and ask them. They have one of the most helpful customers service departments with whom I have dealt. (805) 227-2600

I love this discussion. KL and Malm are right on.

I am not a gunsmith but I have three metal lathes in the shop. two are equipped with the standard 127 tooth transpose gear for cutting metric threads. I do not cut metric often, but when the need arises it really is a piece of cake.

With all the metric actions in the world, a guy that says he is a gunsmith and cannot cut metric threads does not measure up in my opinion.

A borescope tells all.

I have never cut a metric thread in my life (except with taps) and I know a number of guys who have gunsmith shingles out that haven't either. For most guys, there just hasn't been the need. I had to make a new gear for my lathe so I could but haven't used it yet. I am getting ready to make some legs for my lathe 16x 1.75 I think. I guess I will have to learn!

I knew a guy in PA who built custom rifles on Howa 1500s, but
I dont think he is still in business anymore.

There's a lot of stuff I haven't done either but that doesn't mean I'm going to turn someone away. Figure it out ask some questions and get the job done.

I am willing to bet that it will be what a custom smith gets ..might be cheaper buying a new Vanguard then having them re-barrel.

I think Montour County rifles does Metric re-barrels and as far as I know is still in business.

http://www.montourcountyrifles.com

PacNor will do it for you

I am of the borescope persuasion.

I am not saying this is your issue, but a couple of my friends and I have turned half a dozen bad older rifles into much better guns with a LOT (a hell of a lot) of bore cleaning. And a 7 Rem Mag was the one that showed the most dramatic improvement. It was a BLR and with 4 sessions of scrubbing it went from a plus 4 inch to a 1.25 inch gun.

It is incredible how much fouling can build up in a magnum rifle barrel.

Again, I don't say this is your problem, but sometimes it is the problem.

Thanks for all of your thoughts, I have some ideas now.

It&D will do meteric rebarrels for either $20 or $50 above their standard rate. I don't recall which one it is.


Dennis, I am thinking about a rebarrel on Vanguard I have. Could be interesting if you are up for it.

1.5mm threads are not an issue here.

Nor here.

E.R. Shaw put a new barrel on my S&W 1500(HOWA). I think the total cost was under $300.

Before rebarreling, if you haven't already, get yourself some foaming bore cleaner and go to town on that barrel.