After it gets here I'm going to send a 700 SPS .270 to JES to have it rebored to .338-06. My question is regarding the number of grooves. He offers 3 groove for $225 or 4 or 5 grove for $250. Which is better?

I've heard good things about JES until I saw this post. It's long but worth reading before you make up your mind. Not very good customer service.

http://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/3221043/m/3061008432

Dang. If not JES where to get the barrel re-bored?

My experiece with JES at about the same time as the guy with the problem was perfect.
Not even the slightest hiccup. Very quick turn around time too.

He took a Douglas barreled rifle in 30-06 that would not shoot worth a flip with any load I
tried and bored it to a 35 Whelen. It is very accurate now.

my experience with jes was great .

Ed

So to summarize that thread, a guy fires some loads he got out of a manual, that were originally tested with commercial brass, using thicker military brass and starts blowing primers.

So knowing from the first rounds he fired that there is some problem with pressure, he continues to shoot the rifle with over pressure loads until he manages to blow it up.

To me, the barrel looks like the effects of a barrel obstruction, but that aside, the guy knew from day one that there was a problem somewhere, either with the rifle or ammo, and continued to fire off rounds, with not even a fleeting thought of taking the rifle to a gunsmith to check it out and find out where the problem lies.

All this is from the poster's statements and assumes that events unfolded exactly how the poster said it did...so there's that... but now he maintains that the rifle blew up because JES screwed up the barrel re-boring and wants JES to fix it, so JES sends him back his action and an original barrel...I can only assume that JES might not have had a lot of patience to deal with this guy beyond that point.

I don't have a dog in the fight, but it's hard not to watch a good train wreck.

Now... what's wrong with that 270?

I have a Winchester M/70 that Randall Redman rebored to .35 Whelen, he is no longer accepting rebore work due to sizeable backlog. Cliff La Bounty rebored a S&W M/27 revolver to .44 Special before he retired, and I have another M/27 rebored by the gentleman who took over Cliff's business. Both the rifle and the revolvers are very accurate and I would not hesitate to undertake another rebore.

It seems that no matter how good your business is someone is going to either have a bad experience or make one for you. To me, I accept this as normal and look at what the bulk of the comments on a business are. One bad comment in a field of good does not dictate the day.

+1 on the above, you cannot make your decision based on one sour grapes comment. No matter how hard you try there's always the individual that cannot be pleased.

I followed that thread but had some of the same doubts about the owner of the gun. Really need to look at how many people have sent guns to JES and been completely satisfied with them. It's easy to key on on one person with a gripe. If you look up reboring threads on different forums you'll find dozens, if not scores of replies from guys who have had JES do work for them and been very pleased. Myself included.

I cannot speak to the number of grooves as to which is better. I had JES do a three groove 375 Whelen and it shot great. Cliff LaBounty did a five groove 35 Whelen for me and it thinks it's a varmint gun.

I am a fan of reboring. I've done two rifles and friends I shoot with have done another three. All shot as well or better than the original rifle.

I was about to come to the same conclusion myself. There’s so much positive feedback on JES. I shouldn’t let one bad experience cloud my decision.

I've had great luck with rebores from both JES and Dan Pederson at Classic Barrel & Gunworks (www.cutrifle.com). In fact, the rebores shot better than the original barrels. A good rebore is usually at least as good as a new barrel.

When the 338 Federal had been out for a year or so, I spoke to Mr. Ocumpaugh about converting a spare Savage 99 from 308 to 338 Fed. He told me that he had done a couple of jobs like the one that I was asking about and the guys who had had it done were getting high pressure signs with factory ammo, so he recommended against it. I think that it speaks well of him, as most people won't turn business away and will blame the user if the job doesn't work out well. I would trust Mr. Ocumpaugh's advice, since he probably has more experience in that area than most.

I agree with John. And why not?
The thing that makes a rifle barrel "good" is the quality of the bore and chamber as well as a concentric crown.

On the highest quality barrels the steel itself is worth about $6-$10. The rest of the cost of a barrel is all about labor and quality machining. So machining the old barrel to high standards is the same as machining a new piece of steel to the same standards.

I usually recommend a new barrel because unless there is some reason to retain the old "look" of the original barrel. The new one gives you options you may not have with a re-bore (like a linger barrel or a heavier contour or different contour is it was wanted)
But there are times when re-bore is a better option and as John said, there is no reason a good job is not going to be just as good as a new barrel.

Steve,

I did an article on reboring a year or two ago, and interviewed some reborers. Dan Pederson suspects that along with the quality of a new cut-rifled bore, the reboring process also provides some more stress-relieving to the barrel steel, thus potentially improving accuracy in another way.

One of the barrels he rebored for me was a factory button-rifled barrel in 7mm STW that never shot very well at all, no matter how many handloading and rebedding tricks were tried. Dan rebored it to .358 Shooting Times Alaskan, and it became VERY accurate, despite the much larger bore, which had to reduce stiffness.

I suspect a lot of shooters who refuse to try rebores somehow equate them with retread tries.

Had JES take a M3366 30-30 with a bubba'd bore out to 38-55 with the 3 groove rifleing. I use nothing but cast bullets, but this thing is really accurate and cleans easily. He was quick, professional, and he will get more work from me if the right options come up again.

Didn't you kill a deer with that last year? I have a few spare 30/30's around, thinking hard about a 38/55. Do you use Starline brass and don't they come in 2 different lengths?

Thanks

Al Siegrist has rebored two handguns for me that shoot very well. I have heard good things about his rifle reboring as well. He has been at it for well over 40 years.

Sure did get a doe last year with the 38-55. Loaded Starline 2.082 length brass with 21gr 4198 and a home cast 250gr bullet. Accurate 38-250B sized to .377, plain based, cast at about 9-10 Bhn. Velocity is about 1440fps. Shot was at less than 30 yards in heavy timber, slightly quartering to me. Bullet took a section of the heavy shoulder bone back through the ribs and left it in the lungs while the bullet continued on it's path and exited in front of the far flank. Doe stumbled less than 25 yards before dropping.
Got another load I'm wanting to try this year, 32 gr. 3031 over the same bullet for 1600+fps. Probably use a slightly harder 14BHN bullet because that's what I've got ready.

Some argue that JES doesn't use the traditional bore size on the 38-55, some of the original Marlins went up over .380. JES uses .3755-.376 or so, not sure exactly his specs. It's a Saami chamber with the slightly smaller bore and groove in case someone wants to use standard .375 jacketed bullets. The bigger bores run into problems with cast bullets because when sizing to .001-.002 over groove size, you "sometimes" end up with the case of a seated bullet being oversize to the chamber and throat depending on how they were sized. At least that's my take on the situation.
Since I'm only running cast on this rifle I went with JES and size everything to match. Works great for me. I'm not necessarily a traditionalist on everything.

W Nickle, Eatonville, WA (Now deceased) did an excellent re-bore cut rifling to 338-06 on an original but worn pre-64 M-70 in 30-06. Used the better steel
in the original barrel and it really shoots accurately. Thought they were rare until I ran into a custom early Model 70 with a Super Grade style
stock. It was also re-bored and re-cut rifled to 35 Whelen on the original barrel. This rifle
came from Boise, Id. and it will not be returned to the seller.

An interesting re-chambering is the 348 Ackley on the Winchester Model 71. It turns a moose rifle into a moose and bear rifle
with 270 Gr Hawk bullets. Keith was right all along about larger calibers.

How did the rifle shoot before you sent it off for the rebore?.

I had JES do a rebore for me, he called me after the rebore told me to use 300 wsm brass not 325 wsm when making 338 wsm ammo. Rifle shoots very well, no complaints.. Now on that thread over on accurate reloading I find it funny ol ray atkinson talking about customer service after he screwed some hunters over on a Cape buffalo hunt several yrs ago. He disappeared for couple yrs after that fiasco he deleted posts, lied etc then ran off with his tail between his legs..

And he never clarified if he was using factory ammo when he split the barrel.

See, I knew I remembered you killing a deer with it. Thanks for the info. So to sum it up, his 38-55 is a 375 Winchester that reads 38-55 on the barrel. I'm more than good with that

I've Had JES re-bore and chamber two rifles for me a 9.3x62 bolt gun and a 358 lever Browning. Both shot much better after his work. They are keepers. I always go with 5 grooves and with the 338x06 I would choose a 1-12 twist to stabilize the 250 or heavier longer bullets--- your call on the twist.
He has the rifle back to you in two weeks--- and even sends two fired cases back to you for inspection and to help set dies-who else does that?
get it done before he retires or quits!
Good Hunting
Lj

The guy stated in the thread that he loaded the rifle with a round that he was pretty sure would blow the rifle up, then tied the rifle to a fence post and fired it with a string tied to the trigger because he didn't want to injure his arm.

This is what he claims, but his story doesn't add up.

The barrel looks like the result of a barrel obstruction. I've seen one like that...it had ice in the muzzle...an alternative explanation is that he accidentally blew up his rifle and his story is an attempt to get JES to cough up a new rifle. Now he's calling out JES for poor customer service, because JES says it was his own fault.

To his credit, JES sent him back his action and an original barrel not installed and he's whining on that it's JES's fault for like 400 pages...

I don't know JES at all, but I wouldn't hand this guy a working rifle either, just for safety sake.

Sometimes refusing to do what the customer asks IS good customer service.

I wouldn't even waste a sheit on AR

Not quite, the .375 is much higher pressure and there are some throat differences. I've seen warnings about using full snort 375 loadings in this version. I don't remember the details right now. Nothing wrong with the 38-55 for timber deer hunting though, 250-275 gr cast bullet at up to 1800fps if you really want to. Look up Ken Waters pet loads, Handloader Magazine, May-June, #61. Available online.
Hodgdon lists some loads in their online database as well.

Though irrelevant as he retired some time ago I have three Cliff LaBounty rifle rebores that shoot extremely well. I have been a fan of rebores since 1993 when I put together my 338-06. Given all that I have read I would use JES in a heartbeat.

My Randall Redman rebored pre'64 M/70 in .35 Whelen is one of the most accurate M/70's I have ever owned, it's going whitetail hunting when the Indiana firearms season opens this Saturday. Cliff La Bounty and his successor have rebored two Smith & Wesson M/27's to .44 Special, the first was converted by Jim Stroh of Alpha Precision and the other by Hamilton Bowen.

Both of my handgun rebores were in 38 WCF. One is a 4" Smith M28 and the other a 6 1/2" Ruger Flattop (former 357 Mag). Both were built by Alan Harton.

Ron Smith from Alberta Canada does excellent work. Had Ron rebore a 300 win mag to 338. He rebored cut the barrel back and rechambered to the 338 Win mag. Nothing leaves his shop unless it's top notch. Also makes custom barrels which I own two.

Should add he also does standard or gain twist rifling. I highly recommend the gain twist

I have used Jes to rebore several rifles. I have recommended him to several friends. We have all been 100% happy.

As far as the number of grooves I go with whatever Jes recommends.

I have a candidate for a rebore in my 264 WM not sure exactly what I want yet but looking at the 7mm Wby, 308 Norma or 358 Norma for various reasons. I would be curious to know how much he typically charges, what kind of time frame would be normally involved, also would find it interesting to hear of why you prefer the gain twist barrel over standard rifling?

I have 2 rebores from JES and They both shoot and work well. Would have him do work for me again. Fair price and quick turn around(no more than 2 weeks).

Jes did a real good job for me...
Wayne York used to do reboring I think..