I'm debating purchasing a Bishop wood stock that is not finished, needs final sanding and minor inletting to specific action/barrel. Maybe some shaping around the cheek piece. First of all, these stocks any good?

Any recommendations on who could do the finishing work? I am still tossing around doing it myself depending on how much I spend on the stock as is.

Thanks all...

I used a couple Bishop stocks in another life long ago and far away. Basically you get out of them what you put in. I never saw one that a rasp couldn't wrestle it into a more pleasing shape. Everyone's aesthetics are different, only you can decide.

As for finishing, there are many ways to skin that cat. You brought it up here so there will be ideas, claims, and procedures spewing like lava out of Mt. Aetna. Stand back. (And yes, it's not rocket science. You seem like a steady fellow and you should be able to handle this yourself.)

yeah, that was asking for a plethora of responses

thanks...

I liked the old Bishops stocks not familiar with the new ones. Do a search on finishing gun stocks there is lots of info and lots of methods. Unless you want the practice I would recommend getting the best wood you can afford as it is the same amount of work to finish a plain piece of wood as an exhibition piece.

Oh yes, you have a plethora!

Inletting was generally pretty nice on the Bishop stocks. There is usually a lot of extra wood that can be reshaped to a more slim, trim, profile, if that tickles your fancy.

There are a plethora of stock finishing recipes out there. Many if not most being pretty good. Which to select depends mostly on how much effort you want to expend.

Here's a recent topic on the subject: http://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/9411043/m/6991085142

Bishop,Rhinehart, Fajon(sp) use to be the more popular names in stocks about 30 years or so ago. As IRC, they went out of business.I don' t know if Richards is still in business, but I think so.They all had different grades of wood and models of different stocks to pick and chose from.I still have some of their catalogs.

Final inletting and finish, as Gonahhh stated, isn't rocket science.Patience and attention to detail is required

Laurel Mountain stain is the best and will reflect wood as you move it to get light to different grain. Deep, like under glass.
Tru Oil is best with Tung oil second. Fill the grain until like a glass plate with Tru Oil only. Much work and time.
Then thin the oil and use a touch up spray gun to spray a coat without runs. Let get tacky and spray again, over and over so each coat melts and blends with each other. You will get one thick layer that way instead of many hard layers that rub through. Let dry until no odor is smelled, weeks if needed. I have propped the stocks in the truck cab in the sun to speed it up. Do not hurry, it must be dry. Now you can rub it out with what you want without breaking through a layer. The secret is one thick coat, not a thin layer that is hard under another.
A $300 plank of fine wood made into a stock is junk if you rub through. I bought planks from a kiln and pre cut them to store and dry much more before inletting and shaping.
I hated pre inletted stocks since none fit anyway. They leave wood for fit. I have chainsawed trees into planks to make stocks but the moisture content is critical before the work.
I had a white oak struck by lightning and sawed it up. I pre cut a little over, stacked and stickered in the basement for a month, dry, 35 to 40% humidity. Made a pie safe for the wife and in 20 years it is still the same with all perfect fit.
Flintlock dried better. Maple plank from a kiln.

I have two Fajen-stocked rifles, both 25-06's. One in Maple with the original 'Fajen' plastic butt plate, the other in walnut with a rubber recoil pad. Beautiful pieces of wood.

Wow! Just WOW!

Shaking my head...

Yeah, I didn't want to be the first to comment on that. I think I'll go have a beer instead of trying to straighten that mess out.

I doubt that mess can be straightened...

Using a Bishop stock. That must have been left over from days gone by - not that there's anything wrong with that. Best of luck - it's always satisfying to get a nice finish on a piece of wood.

Minor inletting?

My experience with these "90% inletted" stocks is that 90% of the wood has been removed, but 90% of the work remains.

Nothing wrong with that. Good luck, and have fun with it. Take your time - only work on it for an hour or two at a time - the results will be better.

Like most stock work, the last 10% of the work takes 90% of the effort...

Had to research things a bit due to the ridiculous nature of the post by brfshooter...
https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/12889065/1

You cannot make up this kind of joke!

I had a deserving kid wistfully looking at some custom rifles, wishing he could afford something different from an off-the-shelf gun but at the same kind of money. I had a BRNO milsurp barreled action with a minty bore gathering dust, and an old pre-inlet black walnut Bishop stock that I had taken in trade in a weak moment. I set about polishing and rust bluing that turd of a barreled action, welded on an Oberndorf-style bolt handle, mounted a decent scope, and let it into the wood (not necessarily in that order). I then took a rasp to it- removed the cheek piece, slimmed it down by (seemingly) half, fitted a M70 butt plate and ebony grip cap, and chased the neatest schnabel into the fore arm tip that I ever executed. That gun finished up looking pretty sweet, even with the plain vanilla wood (and it shoots lights out). It remains the guy's favorite rifle which he proudly puts up against his buddies guns at every opportunity. I wish I had taken pictures. It took little effort on my part to give a kid a leg up- we gotta give back to the hobby now and then or we're all doomed.

Just goes to show that there are treasures buried inside of even the most mundane Bishop and Fajen pre-inlets of yore. It just takes a bit of imagination and patience to bring them to light.

Edit: And no, I didn't use Tru Oil or tung oil, or any other kind of oil. I knew the gun would be used hard in all manner of weather conditions so I gave it 10 coats of spar varnish rubbed out with 320x between coats to give a glass smooth finish that'll shed water like a duck's ass. Final rub out and waxing made for a subtle finish that some yahoos thought was an oil finish. I left it un-checkered- there are some limits to my generosity!

Exactly right. When I was 'building' ships, those a little less knowledgeable would wonder 'Why did the get the ship to 95% complete in 6 months but it took 4 months to do the last 5%'

The last wooden sailboat my buddy and I built, a 35' Sparkman&Stevens Pilot, only took us 5 months to lay the keel and scantlings and skin the hull (cold molded). It took us another two years to finish it.

My understanding from comments is most want a 1 day oil rubbed finish. It can take weeks to fill the grain alone but you want a custom stock in a few hours.
Just paint with grey deck paint.
Checker? I bet there might be one here that can do it, the rest will pay to have it done. I can tell with one question, when do you checker?
"My stock has 50 coats of linseed oil, M1 rubbed every day so it must be thick." Brilliant!
Have fun guys, I just chuckle over you that hate me, it shows a lack of smarts with no experience at all. Strange nobody shows pictures either. I would expect you would want to show your work.

Where are your pictures?

First off, you don't "fill the grain", you fill the pores. And the fact that you preach filling pores with finishing oil tempts me to walk away and have yet another beer.

One point you got right- good finishes don't happen overnight in the land of craftsmanship. As with everything else in life, what you get out of something equals what you put into it.

We have coasted along respecting each other's opinions (by and large), earnestly sharing good info, and debating/sharing smithing techniques in a gentlemanly manner (by and large) for quite a while now- I guess we're overdue a boob who still believes in old wive's tales and urban legends, and spouts them as incontrovertible law. I guess we're overdue a good old fashioned Campfire pissing match. It's good entertainment if nothing else. Or not....

I use Custom Pro Oil, a urethane/Tung oil finish from Brownells. I soak the well prepared wood with Pro Oil, wet sand in circular motions with 400 wet or dry, allow is to become a slurry. As it thickens, I wipe across the grain to fill the pores. I do that a couple of time, dry time, 24 hrs.

I then apply a number of Tru-Oil coats to finish the fill, then the last two coats with Pro Oil. I lightly wipe the Pro Oil with a blue shop towel, single layer.

This is an Old Army Clements custom 50 cal, burl rosewood grips with that finish. Rosewood can be oily with problem getting the finish to dry. Soaking in acetone pulls a lot of that oil out. The Ruger medallions originally had black background paint. Acetone took care of that. A silver medallion on a SS gun looks good, IMO. That was by accident.

DF

Coming in as you did, so completely wrong, and arguing ridiculously in other threads is certainly setting a pattern...

Congratulations...

Dirtfarmer...very, very, very nice wood and revolver!

Damn those grips are nice!

And the silver medallions!

Easy, peesy, too large to post. Restrictions to size prevents it. I have tried many times.

I agree, Nice job. I don't like shiny on my rifles and prefer hand rubbed but when I did my Tru Oil long ago and made the layers of dried coats then rubbed with rotten stone, I broke through a layer and only another coat hid it. But the last was still shiny. Coats are so thin that a rub through will be made. Lacquer finish works since solvent softens the first coats to make thicker. But not what we want on a gun. Tricky stuff. Dries so fast it must be sprayed and even the new stuff is hard to use. It was when I came to the use of a little spray gun and not letting each coat get full hard that I eliminated the rub through. Sanding between coats or using steel wool only abrades the surface so another coat will stick. The solvent in oil will not combine with the first coat if it is dry.
The reason I use Tru oil to fill grain or pores as some say is so light makes the wood pop and if you turn a stock you will see the changes for the beauty of the wood. A filler hides that. If you use tung oil, also fill the pores with it first.
Now a big bore revolver must never have smooth, shiny grips or you can't control the "roll". The gun should never "roll' in your hand. Looks don't make them shoot. They become safe queens to show off.

Let me try a revolver group at 50 yards.

My stock pictures are too large.

DF Nice pistola. Looks like you should wear a white Stetson and a silver badge when you shoot it.

I have been using a varnish/shellac mix as a filler. Baker, Parker and LC Smith used something similar on their shotguns. I initially wanted the garnet color of the shellac but liked how it improved drying time and adhesion so will do some more this way. If it lasts as long as it does on a Parker Shotgun say 100 plus years I will be happy with it. The shellac reduces the hardness of the varnish but not an issue since I sand it back to almost bare wood. For a rough use rifle you could reduce the shellac or omit it entirely and just use spar varnish as filler.

I use alkanet oil then Varnish/Shellac mix then more oil or what ever mix you like. The shellac helps insure most finishes will stick. Use the appropriate color shellac for the type wood. Like blonde on Maple, Garnet on walnut etc.

Every photo editing program includes a "resize" button or slide. It allows you to keep the original and produce a second file with fewer pixels to post... mere seconds... and there are many, many such programs available free.

Sorry, but every time you post something it leaves everyone with a clue shaking their heads. Your basic comprehension of finishing is so badly wrong there is simply no way to correct it.

How about the old Dirtfarmer in CAS outfit with a brace of genuine Colts.

Bad looking hombre, that Dirtfarmer...

DF

Bad mamajama fo sho!

I's got skeart jus lookin uppon the graven imag!!!

Bad skeart!!!

But how did you make the pitcher small enough???

Hard to shrink that much “bad” to fit on a page.

DF

My point exactly!

Bad ass Hombre.

Too clean, and probably smells good too.

_

The “boss” has her standards.

DF

Low, though they obviously are!

Need him here to scare the mice away.

Just show them your methods of stock finishing... that will scare anything and everything!

Yeah it is so hard a spear thrower might be baffled. Yet they put up 20 ton rocks to make buildings. Now you want a 20 second finish to look like months of work. The spray gun makes it easy but you can do it by hand too.
Do you know T Rex bones are radioactive and need special pant on them? I had to prime walls before painting but now we have paint to cover with one coat and prime too.
I only scare the ones that have no brains. Too complicated for so many.

ok, well I did end up purchasing a stock that will need final fit and finish (not the stock mentioned in original post). It is American black walnut.

Can someone lead me to the steps to take to final finish. I understand it takes patience and doing a little at a time. I guess first is fitting the barreled action with follower and floorplate. Then onto any shaping if desired.

Then ONTO the final finish work????? sanding, stain, sealer, etc etc......

Good luck. Those here will overcome all of what you need to do to even fit the action. A smith is not born and the net will lead you astray fast. I have built hundreds of stocks from planks of wood, Not pre cut. Chainsaw a plank from a tree and season to make a rifle stock. A missing fore arm from a double shotgun and the missing metal. The guys do not understand finish at all. Over 10 minutes is too long. Smiths do not get rich. Takes months for a stock. I confuse the stupid.

yeah, I am starting to get a little confused...

Will reread this tonite after a couple tequilas.

Ahhh... the explanation! You confuse yourself!

Yes, you are right, getting the wood ready to finish comes before finish, and after final fitting.

Get it inserted by smoking the barreled action and inserting it to look for soot spots. Use action pins to guide the metal into the wood. Remove the sooty spots and repeat until the action goes into the stock halfway. Make sure the bore centerline is exactly aligned with the top of the fore end.

Then shape the outside. Then block sand with progressively finer sandpaper right down to perfect. Keep the edges crisp!

Good walnut does not need stain.

Red lip stick works well instead of sooting. A tad faster too

I agree with the other opinions offered here. I would avoid boiled linseed oil- it usually has contaminants floating around in it. Depending on how dark you want the stock to be, you can just use Tung Oil or Danish Oil.

Here is a Danish Oil finish on a Remington 721 which I glass bedded into a Remington 78 stock. Remington had soaked it in their idea of a good stain, and none of the grain showed. I took all the Remington bastardization off and, after final sanding, rubbed Danish Oil in using a small square of 600 grit paper. I think it ended up wearing 6 coats, and it looks good. YMMV

I use Canode inletting blue. It washes off with water. I do not want greases or oils in my inletting since I seal them.

Haven't been this entertained in quite some time. brf reminds me of someone, but for the life of me I can't remember his handle. Anyone remember the handle of the guy who went on the free African hunt with Saeed? This guys sounds just like him...

Does anyone remember what the original question was? Or if the OP is even still around?

As far as finishing, might as well scrap this thread and start over again, or do a search on stock finishing. You won't learn anything from the back and forth on this thread without knowing who knows what they are talking about and who doesn't. I do know the personalities, but that would just confuse you even more....

As far as the finishing/shaping goes, you can do it yourself but be prepared to get a few good tools if you want to do a good job. A barrel channel cutter or scraper(s) would be good, along with a few very sharp chisels of different shapes. Some good quality sand paper and various flat sanding blocks and a few flexible sanding blocks for the rounded corners. Inletting black is handy but not required if you know how to soot your metal. A good wood working vise with soft jaws to protect the wood is essential. I put a piece of very heavy felt in my jaws to protect the wood. If you are really ambitious, get yourself one of the stockmaking books by Westbrook, Linden, or Kennedy and read up about stockmaking and finishing.... one thing to remember is patience is a huge virtue in stock making, shaping, finishing.

Okay, let the entertainment continue...

Bob

Larry Potterfield has some great gunsmithing videos. A few of them:

Gunsmithing - How to Reshape a Rifle Stock Presented by Larry Potterfield of MidwayUSA

Gunsmithing - How to Inlet a Semi-Inletted Rifle Stock Presented by Larry Potterfield of MidwayUSA

Gunsmithing - How to Sand a Rifle Stock Presented by Larry Potterfield of MidwayUSA

And here is a link to a thread on finishing. You might see some familiar User ID's on this thread:

Rifle stock finish

And here is a link to custom google search for the 24hourcampfire forums. You can do a search for more stock finishing threads:

24hourcampfire Custom Search

Edit to add link to NEW MEMBER PRIMER AND OLD MEMBER REFERENCE - FOR READING ONLY, NO EXTRANIOUS POSTING thread at the top of the Hunters Campfire forum which has a bunch of reference links to previous threads, many of which deal with stocks and finishing:

Stocks, stock finishing and re-finishing

Russel E. Taylor.

Yes. I'm still around...just posted earlier today on this thread.

Some good links here is what I'm looking for. My first time doing a wood stock, it's already semi inletted, just need to fit my barreled action. Then finish the wood.

Looking for a nice finish that will look good

Probably the easiest finish to get right is Truoil. A drop or two on the finger tip rubbed into a small area and move to the next area and so on. Several coats (4-6) will get you where you want to go after filling the pores of course. It will be pretty glossy after about 4 coats. If you don't want the gloss, let it cure for 30 days and knock it down with rotten stone or some other finish rubbing compound.
The best sealer and base for any finish is Shellac. Fresh if possible. It isn't very robust so it doesn't make a good final coat, but will seal almost anything and any finish known to man will adhere to it.

Another quick and easy finish that will come out great if you take your time and use light coats is a good spray lacquer. Most of the factory stocks are some type of sprayed on lacquer with a color additive to give it that red tint you often see in factory stocks. I prefer it clear and semi gloss. Be careful of following some "experts" and their "miracle finishes", usually including Super glue or armor all and any finishes that include silicone in their list of ingredients. Beyond that, it is mainly a matter of practice and patience.

Good luck with the project. Pictures will be required.

Bob

What did he just say??

I am not sure, but someone told me he ended by saying he is confused.

Looks like a foreign language to me... which foreign language is what I can't figure out...

Bob

Everyone sounds like a liberal, brain washed to follow the path and never think. Take liberal arts in collage and find a job. Can anyone explain what "liberal arts" is? I bet there might be one person here that can solder a water pipe, the rest call a plumber. Maybe I am too forgiving and there are none at all. To take a gun apart when you can't pound a nail is scary.
You need to read everything and repeat it so you sound educated. Then you vote liberals in. Comments are pure liberal trash.

'Nuff said...no need to elaborate.

ok, received the stock in the mail over the weekend. The trigger guard and follower box fit great already. I'm debating getting a hinged floorplate so we'll see how that fits. barrel channel needs a lot of fitting. I need to get some long action screws for the barreled action for guiding into the stock at each fitting.

is a socket wrapped in sandpaper the best way to sand out the barrel channel? what grit is recommended?

First couple of pics...

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbt...ies/12913817/stock-shaping-and-finishing

Get some in letting screws... headless screws, essentially. They are worth the small price and then some.

Anyone that actually builds stocks cringes at the old socket trick... cutting multiple places at the same time is the best way to screw it up!

Instead, use barrel channel scrapers or chisels so you cut only the area your marking medium shows is high.

If you just have to use the socket, do only the bottom of the channel with a very under-sized socket and clean up the top edges very carefully after getting the bottom deep enough. Most socket jobs glare at you from across the room.

The best way is the proper tool/tools like this:

https://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-...ing-tools/barrel-bedder-jr-prod6797.aspx

Jobs like that can't be rushed. While using inletting black and scraping the highlights is slow, it is precise. Besides, when done you'll say "Geez, that wasn't so bad and it didn't take as long as I thought it would."

Depending on how much you need to remove from the barrel channel, the hardest part is keeping everything straight and centered on the action inlet and stock centerline. This is critical in the final shaping and fitting. As Art suggests, get some action screws to hold the action in the same place every time you drop it in. If they are loose in the inlet holes, wrap tape around them until they are a snug fit so the action drops in exactly the same every time. If there is a lot of wood to remove for the barrel channel, very carefully draw some lines to the outside of the barrel while it is in place and carefully using a very sharp chisel, remove material slowly but stay back from your line. When you have removed enough material to save some time, but you are sure you aren't outside your barrel line, start using the inletting black or soot the barrel and check your progress. Take your time and take a break when you get tired or lose concentration. A chisel can be used to finish the work if you keep it very sharp, but I find the scraper better for the finish work most of the time. After you do one of these, you'll see what we are saying and the second and subsequent stocks will be much easier.

I find these type of scrapers can be really handy for some of the barrel channel work and are easier to keep sharp with a quick stone job for small removal chores.
https://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-...pers/hard-fit-curl-scrapers-prod398.aspx

Bob

I’ve used the “socket method”. I used a dowel vs a socket and although it worked, Sitka Deer is right: It didn’t work as well as I thought and there are some gaps I’d rather not have.

Need tools, make or buy. Some here are so smart they can't tell you how to cut curly maple. Please tell. Every single part was hand made as were the tools, even the gravers. Sorry can'r post over a certain size when some fill the whole page. I got the other side I hope.

Yes I am the brunt of jokes all the time. What I have in my safe or made can't be tagged for value to sell. Even my custom work on an original Enfield, finish and checker will not be evaluated.

Make blocks and cherries to make bullet molds is a piddle for me. But all of you can do more. How about my bullet from a .500 JRH at 50 yards?
I love to laugh at net experts. Keep me entertained. I was shooting 1/4' groups at 350 yards with a rifle and under 1" at 100 with revolvers when you were a stain in mom's pants. You could not find a nipple when I was shooting revolvers to over 600 yards.
Have fun, you do not hurt me at all. Play Candy Crush or another game. I bet you all that you have a phone in your pocket right now and your kids can't add 2+2 without one. I will give you a chunk of tool steel to make a Ruger transfer bar by hand, harden and temper. I messed up one only, my fault. Make mainsprings for flintlocks and frizzen springs that never break.
Sad bunch.

If only we could all be as smart and talented as you. You remind of the Arschloch on here that ends every sentence with "Hint". A guy comes here asking for simple stock finishing advice and all you can do is brag up your own work and denigrate others. No one GAF if you can solder copper pipe- whoop-de-do. If you are so smart, why can't you handle the simple Attachment Manager and post large photos?

Wrong website- I believe Saeed is on Accurate Reloading.com

NOT, Because I will tell you how. But it makes me enemies.You do not dare go against the important slugs as I have. Over many years I have seen my stuff repeated over and over as I was found to be correct with no mention to me.
The thing is I do not want anything at all. But I have been sucked on big time to make another great. Actually more then one because gun rags have been saying things to match. I could care less if it helps anyone. The difference is I don't want fame or money or to cheat. If I can help, it is all I want. I will rub your butt raw if you are wrong, but I will never call you names.
Yet the harm done to me is never an issue. Maybe the mods should look at the mean persons that live here.

All this guy needs is a Ten Gallon Stetson and a cigar crammed in his mouth. I guess hell, he musta been there. Every ten years or so someone comes along with a puffed up chest and a lot of hot air. If he did 1/10 the stuff he's bragged about there would be statues to him in every small town.




1/4" groups at 350 yards my sweet smelling arse. At least I can go to bed now with a chuckle.

You will make a lot of friends and convert detractors with that, almost certainly. Good luck, good night, and goodby.

Laughiing!!! Just pulled up your photo... that is one ugly, artless POS! Clean across the country it screams amateur! The drop-magazine shaping would barely make a C in a Jr High wood shop class. The checkering is just a blob stuck in the middle of a ridiculous set of squiggles! Congratulations!

Glad you liked it. Not a new stock, original and the owner told me what he wanted. Sorry it does not meet your standards but you should show your work. With both hands up your butt I don't think you can cut one line in wood.

Your woodwork is only superseded by your photography.

10 gal hat and a cow-pie makes him a rancher.

It's an old reference. Some of the original guys will recognize the players.... Saeed used to post on this site occasionally a long time ago.

Bob

Nope, not him at all. The one who won is a personal friend and he is a true gentleman...

RIchards has a great selection of designs, wood, etc.

Their inletting is sub standard, IMO, not as good as Fajen, Bishop, etc.

And, not nearly as good as Boyd. Boyd just doesn't have their wide range of offerings.

Would love to have Richards catalog with Boyd inletting.

Oh well...

DF

Apparently we're talking about different people.....